The Official Pioneer 9G Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 78

Hey guys,
I was wanting to ask a question to anyone that was at the flatpanel shootout.
I heard D-nice talking about measuring something on the 111 before he left for the shootout. Was that the Minimum luminance level?? I think I heard him say something like "after break-in it changed" or "both the 6020 and 111 are the same". I could not make out what he was saying because others in the room were talking pretty loud. I am wondering if he was talking about the MLL.


Also,
Who was the guy in the green shirt standing next to Robert when they were talking about the settings that were taken away from the 6020?? He said something like "you like the BMW, but you preferr the M-series". Was that one of the Pioneer guys??
I'm not trying to sound rude or anything but, Did it kinda seemed to you guys that D-Nice knew more about the 6020 than he did?? I mean I am sure he knows alot about his products, but it just seemed like D-nice knew more.
Thanks,
-Chad

I must fall inbetween. I want to be able to dial in the colors but all of these settings kinda overwhelm me. I wonder if I can figure out how they all interface to get the color settings enhanced. Is this something better left to a calibrator or D Nices settings after his review? How hard have you found it to adjust your color etc?

I wasn't there, but managers tend to be big picture guys. D-Nice is a hands on guy. If you really want to know the detail, go to the technician, want a spec, go to the manager.

Not too hard. I just used D-Nices reference settings and then tweaked a little to my liking. I adjust some of the setting depending on source (like field NR and Mosquito NR when watching DVD's, and changing color temp when playing PS3 games, etc.) Theres alot that you can do with the elites to make certain sources look a little better. With the non-elites I was kinda stuck in Movie mode with D-nices settings. I used the DVE disk on the 6020 and the results were exactly the same as D-nices.
I plan on getting the 151 ISF calibrated after I get my sound system. I figure I will wait until I have a sound system so the ISF calibrator can do both the picture and sound while he is here.

Thanks. I did it too many times to claim a typo.

Yep. I think he posted it here somewhere too. His second measurement said the minimum luminance was no longer worse on the 111 than the 6020. They were comparable.

And speaking of D, where are you? Are you still on the road? I hope you had a safe journey and that you get a little rest. Thanks for coming to share what you've learned.

I have read many post mentioning the RS232 ports and D-nice has been working on it I hear.
So it is totally safe to say now that the 6020/5020's can be properly calibrated per the service menu?

are there any calibrators you know of right now that will provide this service to 6020 owners?

The only post I have seen was by UMR who indicated he would not touch them.

Cool,
I haven't seen any posts from D-nice in a while.
I just checked his posts history and I can't find any post about the 111 vs 6020 MLL differences. I bet he is waiting until his final review before posting that info.
Sure wish I could have been there at the shootout.
I certainly wish there were more events like this. Wouldn't it be great if things like this happened more than just once a year?
Anyway, I am glad you enjoyed the event Vashti. Have you got your 151 yet? Or are you gonna wait for the 141 after hearing all that good stuff about it??
see you later,
-Chad
PS. Rambo says hello.

UMR, I understand you are moving to Missouri. What location? This would work out great for me, I'm 200 miles from KC and about the same from St Louis.

Just to avoid confusion, my question was about RS232 serial remote control, for routine control of the TV's functions, as is often set up with AV control systems like Pronto, Crestron, etc. This is not to be confused with serial calibration control, although turbe's answer seems to address both capabilities.

There is a serial protocol/command document on Pioneer's website, but I'm really hung up on the RS232 port being labeled "SERVICE ONLY" on the TV and the manual describing it as "for factory use." This isn't just an academic point for me, as the serial protocol includes some discrete commands I'd really like to be able to use, and each serial module for my Nevo remote system costs $50. I don't want to order one for the Kuro if it can't be controlled that way.

Anybody know why Pioneer puts that SERVICE ONLY label on the port?

Has anyone else noticed this or am I seeing things?

When running Evangelo2's jpeg images on my 111 with D-Nice's settings only the first 5 slides of white seem to have a distinct change in the shade of the color. The other three primary colors(red,green and blue) slides seem to have no change in the shade of the color they all look the same though all 5 slide of that color.

I will be in St. Louis for a while until my home is built at The Lake of The Ozarks. I definitely can go to your area.

Kevin Miller was also quoted as not willing to touch them.

Yes, he was one of the Pioneer reps. There was a bit of an 'exchange' of words when the issue of the implications of entering the SM came up. Kevin asked if he (an experienced, certified calibrator) would be authorized to enter the menu to make modifications as part of a calibration. The answer from Pio was that he would, but I think that they wanted to be assured he knew how to muck about in there. Someone else, please jump in here and correct me if I got this wrong.

D-Nice told us that the blotches we saw (matching your drawing, Chad) would diminish as the set was broken in, according to what he saw on the panel he's been breaking in. And as Vashti mentioned, he said that the black levels of the 111 were dropping as the break-in period continued. That man was tireless and very glad to field questions.

Concerning my overall take on the Saturday class, as a few others have mentioned, I was surprised by how good most of the sets looked. I did not feel ANY sales pitch (and I'm quite sensitive to that) aimed at me making any purchase. I spent over 12 hours on the road to attend this (D-Nice spent at least double that!) If I thought this was only a ploy to get me to buy any particular set, I would have walked out of the showroom in a second! Robert has a strong passion for the science of A/V. That came through loud and clear. For the duration of this event, he was very excited to share that passion with us, not to persuade us into buying anything.

At the end of the day, sales pay the bills, but I did not come away feeling any obligation or guilt to buy any piece of equipment. And I haven't. And now I'm more confused than ever about what to buy, but now I know more about whichever set I purchase.

Finally, Vashti is just as wonderful in person as she is here. Meeting her was a real highlight, but, er, she still hasn't completely, 100% decided what to buy

Yes, he said after break in the Minimum luminance level on the 111 dropped to the same level as the 6020.

Yes, I believe the guy in the green shirt was a Pioneer rep, but by the statements he was making I think he was clueless. He hinted to D-nice that maybe Pioneer was able to decrease the black levels by eliminating user controls on the 6020.

Yeah, my memory is that the Pio guy said something like, "You're certainly not the kind of guy we're trying to keep out of there." Jeff, Kevin and D-Nice were talking about how one would callibrate the ..20 series at lunch. I certainly got the idea that Kevin was quite open to doing this if its doable. K told D that he was very interested in what he was learning and they agreed to talk more about it. Kevin, if you're out there, feel free to correct me if I misunderstood you guys.



Thank you for your VERY kind words - and yeah, I'll admit a bit of uncertainlty has crept into my choice - but it will definitely be a 60" elite. Sbw, it was a real pleasure meeting you too.

Does this mean the 151 was able to hit 0.0014 or does that mean the he re-measured the 6020 and it is now at 0.002 just like the 151??


I don't buy into that.
If that were the case then the elites would not be able to hit those low MLL's
without using that same hardcoded "recipe". Which they can. I seriously doubt the Rep. even knew what D-nice was talking about when he said "recipe".

These are the recipe's that D-nice was talking about:

A/V Mode ---- DRE --- Black Level --- ACL --- Enhancer --- Gamma --- CTI

Dynamic------ High ------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Performance-- Mid -------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Movie-------- Off -------- On ------- Off ------- 2 ---------- 1 ------ On
Sports------- Mid -------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Game-------- Off -------- Off ------- Off ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Standard----- Mid ------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On

I think this was a typo, but I want to make sure. Is it actually 4.5" from the bottom of the bezel/panel?

When you say bottom of the bezel/panel,
Do you mean this distance:

No...

I know a few people have been asking so here is a link to the document containing the commands.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/St...0Protocols.pdf

Thanks........Great Find It is very much appreciated.

Thanks Chad!

I updated the picture.
I was not sure if you meant from the base of the stand or the top of it.

is this for a center speaker that will be sitting on the stand itself?

-Chad

He was talking about the black levels

Yes I was talking about the minimum luminance levels. The 111FD now has the same MLL as the 6020....minus the blotches



Yes

Actually Kevin spoke the same general "distaste" for RS232 commands in general. However, he is open to using the simplistic tool that I have used to access the SM. That tool does not need to be used beyond the initial access and "save" of the calibrated settings.