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The Official Pioneer 9G Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 847

post #25381 of 28726
1/20/11 at 1:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

If you use it primarily for gaming, it's likely that the panel is usually displaying fixed graphics....over time, that can cause BI. Once you start to see consistent latent images of your games' graphics, it can be almost impossible to get rid of them.

The Orbiter will move these static graphics around by a few pixels, but that will, at best, just make the edges of the eventual burned-in images a little less distinct. That's better than nothing, I suppose, but BI is still BI whether the images are sharply defined or not. If you are really trying to prevent BI from all your game playing, you should try to vary the panel's usage pattern, and run the Video Pattern more frequently.

I've never had these problems gaming on any of my other (Panasonic) plasmas.

So far the 101FD has been a fine gaming set as well.

So are you saying that my 101FD is more prone to BI than a G10 or VT25?
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post #25382 of 28726
1/20/11 at 2:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoPlusTwo View Post
I've never had these problems gaming on any of my other (Panasonic) plasmas.

So far the 101FD has been a fine gaming set as well.

So are you saying that my 101FD is more prone to BI than a G10 or VT25?
No, I wasn't commenting on the G10 or VT25, or comparing the 101FD to any other panel(s).
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post #25383 of 28726
1/20/11 at 2:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post
No, I wasn't commenting on the G10 or VT25, or comparing the 101FD to any other panel(s).
Yeah, but it seems like you are saying that I'm gonna get BI using my 101FD for gaming.

Whereas I've been gaming on Panasonic plasmas previously for eons and never had this problem.

So far I've logged lots of gaming hours on the 101FD and as of right now, no BI issues yet.
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post #25384 of 28726
1/20/11 at 2:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoPlusTwo View Post
Yeah, but it seems like you are saying that I'm gonna get BI using my 101FD for gaming.

Whereas I've been gaming on Panasonic plasmas previously for eons and never had this problem.

So far I've logged lots of gaming hours on the 101FD and as of right now, no BI issues yet.
Maybe I was too presumptuous about the purpose of your original question....what Orbiter setting to use on a 101FD that is used primarily for gaming. Since the Orbiter is included exclusively as a screen protection feature, I assumed screen protection was your motive in asking about it.

So, I was simply responding to the general issue of screen protection for a 101FD used primarily for gaming. While the Kuros are quite robust and resistant to IR/BI, excessive use of any one AR or excessive display of the same static images does raise the risk for IR and BI. That doesn't mean these problems will occur....just that there's a higher risk in such a single-use panel. If you aren't concerned about IR/BI, then setting the Orbiter to Off and the Screen Size to DotxDot will offer the best possible picture quality for your games (assuming they're 1080p/i).
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post #25385 of 28726
1/20/11 at 3:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by oppopioneer View Post
I have all of my safety features set to Mode 2 including Orbiter. On the remote there is a button: "Screen Size" and set it to "Auto" on the screen, that activates all the safety features in the Setup Menu. All the features in the menu like Wide Zoom, Auto Zoom, Side Mask Detect etc are all Mode 2 for me.
You've made this claim several times.....and it's not correct. The Auto setting of the Screen Size parameter affects screen size only. Specifically, it determines how the panel responds to the aspect ratio metadata contained in the video stream. (When AR metadata is not present, the Auto setting doesn't do anything.)

There is a Screen Protection parameter in the Option menu that, when engaged, adjusts several other parameters to settings which are considered advantageous for preventing IR/BI or extending panel life. These include the Orbiter, Energy Save, Side Mask, and Wide Zoom parameters. Your statement incorrectly suggests that the Screen Size Auto setting affects all these "safety features," which it doesn't.
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post #25386 of 28726
1/20/11 at 4:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post
You've made this claim several times.....and it's not correct. The Auto setting of the Screen Size parameter affects screen size only. Specifically, it determines how the panel responds to the aspect ratio metadata contained in the video stream. (When AR metadata is not present, the Auto setting doesn't do anything.)

There is a Screen Protection parameter in the Option menu that, when engaged, adjusts several other parameters to settings which are considered advantageous for preventing IR/BI or extending panel life. These include the Orbiter, Energy Save, Side Mask, and Wide Zoom parameters. Your statement incorrectly suggests that the Screen Size Auto setting affects all these "safety features," which it doesn't.
When cnet.com did it's tests of the 111FD/151FD they found that Dot-by-Dot doesn't like when Side Mask is enabled, it effects it some how. So by turning off some of the Screen Protection options while using Dot-by-Dot can increase the odds of some IR and BR. I only use Dot-by-Dot when watching 1080p/24 blurays, everything else I set screen size to Auto, so I have to activate Side Mask in order to activate Screen Size - Auto
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post #25387 of 28726
1/20/11 at 4:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by oppopioneer View Post

When cnet.com did it's tests of the 111FD/151FD they found that Dot-by-Dot doesn't like when Side Mask is enabled, it effects it some how. So by turning off some of the Screen Protection options while using Dot-by-Dot can increase the odds of some IR and BR. I only use Dot-by-Dot when watching 1080p/24 blurays, everything else I set screen size to Auto, so I have to activate Side Mask in order to activate Screen Size - Auto

I wasn't commenting on whatever settings you use...that's your choice and it's not relevant.

I was pointing out that your oft-repeated claim that setting Screen Size to Auto "activates all the safety features" is erroneous and misleading.
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post #25388 of 28726
1/20/11 at 5:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Maybe I was too presumptuous about the purpose of your original question....what Orbiter setting to use on a 101FD that is used primarily for gaming. Since the Orbiter is included exclusively as a screen protection feature, I assumed screen protection was your motive in asking about it.

So, I was simply responding to the general issue of screen protection for a 101FD used primarily for gaming. While the Kuros are quite robust and resistant to IR/BI, excessive use of any one AR or excessive display of the same static images does raise the risk for IR and BI. That doesn't mean these problems will occur....just that there's a higher risk in such a single-use panel. If you aren't concerned about IR/BI, then setting the Orbiter to Off and the Screen Size to DotxDot will offer the best possible picture quality for your games (assuming they're 1080p/i).

Sorry, I was unclear what I was asking.

When I said what orbiter mode for gaming, I meant to minimize input lag, not to minimize IR/BI.

I use Game mode with most enhancements turned off for gaming, was just wondering what orbiter should be set to. For purposes of minimizing input lag.
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post #25389 of 28726
1/20/11 at 5:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoPlusTwo View Post

Sorry, I was unclear what I was asking.

When I said what orbiter mode for gaming, I meant to minimize input lag, not to minimize IR/BI.

I use Game mode with most enhancements turned off for gaming, was just wondering what orbiter should be set to. For purposes of minimizing input lag.

AFAIK, the orbiter is only meant to help with regards to inhibiting IR/BR.

Orbiter setting should have absolutely no effect on input lag.
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post #25390 of 28726
1/20/11 at 5:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoPlusTwo View Post

Sorry, I was unclear what I was asking.

When I said what orbiter mode for gaming, I meant to minimize input lag, not to minimize IR/BI.

I use Game mode with most enhancements turned off for gaming, was just wondering what orbiter should be set to. For purposes of minimizing input lag.

No, you were pretty clear....I was being presumptuous about your purpose. My apologies.

I don't think the Orbiter impacts lag, and again, turning it off should give the optimal PQ. It seems (in theory at least) that DotxDot with all picture processing turned off would be the best way to avoid any extra processing-induced lag.
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post #25391 of 28726
1/20/11 at 6:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

No, you were pretty clear....I was being presumptuous about your purpose. My apologies.

I don't think the Orbiter impacts lag, and again, turning it off should give the optimal PQ. It seems (in theory at least) that DotxDot with all picture processing turned off would be the best way to avoid any extra processing-induced lag.

Excellent info, thanks.
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post #25392 of 28726
1/20/11 at 7:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

If you aren't concerned about IR/BI, then setting the Orbiter to Off and the Screen Size to DotxDot will offer the best possible picture quality for your games (assuming they're 1080p/i).

How would disabling the orbiter increase picture quality in any way besides not cropping a few rows of pixels on alternating edges?
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post #25393 of 28726
1/20/11 at 10:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noah View Post

How would disabling the orbiter increase picture quality in any way besides not cropping a few rows of pixels on alternating edges?

The entire image is moved each time the orbiter makes it's adjustments which means to me that there is added image processing.

Many people can see the image move. I'm not one of those people.
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post #25394 of 28726
1/21/11 at 4:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoPlusTwo View Post

Sorry, I was unclear what I was asking.

When I said what orbiter mode for gaming, I meant to minimize input lag, not to minimize IR/BI.

I use Game mode with most enhancements turned off for gaming, was just wondering what orbiter should be set to. For purposes of minimizing input lag.

I have mine set on full with Orbiter on 1. My gaming consists of sports games only, but with those there are no problems with lag at all.
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post #25395 of 28726
1/21/11 at 5:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

The entire image is moved each time the orbiter makes it's adjustments which means to me that there is added image processing.

Many people can see the image move. I'm not one of those people.

My understanding was dot-by-dot means every pixel has a home when fed a 1080i/p signal, so there shouldn't be any scaling or processing involved. The orbiter simply tells the pixels to shift every so often leaving several rows of pixels blank on the edges during this process.

Easy way to check for scaling is to throw up the pixel phase pattern from the DVE disc.
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post #25396 of 28726
1/22/11 at 2:12pm
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I have scoured the menus and don't see where the "Dot By Dot" option is.

My model # is PRO-101FD. Thanks in advance for any replies.
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post #25397 of 28726
1/22/11 at 2:15pm
You select it with the Screen Size button on the remote. The source signal must be 1080i or 1080p or the selection won't be available.
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post #25398 of 28726
1/22/11 at 2:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoPlusTwo View Post

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I have scoured the menus and don't see where the "Dot By Dot" option is.

My model # is PRO-101FD. Thanks in advance for any replies.

Press The Screen Size Buttom from your remote control to select the Dot-by-dot. It's only available when you are sending 1080 resolution to your panel.
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post #25399 of 28726
1/22/11 at 2:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

Press The Screen Size Buttom from your remote control to select the Dot-by-dot. It's only available when you are sending 1080 resolution to your panel.

Thanks.
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post #25400 of 28726
1/24/11 at 8:11am
My low hours 101 suddenly developed a problem last night-the cable feed going into HDMI input 5 started flashing on and off-the screen will show the picture for 8-10 seconds then goes black for 5 or so seconds that back to picture again. Moved the input to HDMI 7 and it was fine. Should I be worried? Any ideas on what is going on? Set was purchased new from an ebay retailer so I don't have a legit dealer reciept (was lied too by the ebay dealer).
Thanks
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post #25401 of 28726
1/24/11 at 8:40am
The MB in my HTPC fits so tightly, if I brush against the HDMI cable, I lose all picture and sound. A gentle wiggle on the connector when the AVR and TV is on brings it all back.

Saildoc, I think you had an HDMI anamoly as I get above. Try a new cable, or re-plugging the old one back into 5 (after cleaning it, maybe), and it should work fine, I hope. HDMI issues are here to stay unless that new T standard comes along.
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post #25402 of 28726
1/24/11 at 10:52am
Does anybody know if kuros are RIHD compatible?.... just trying to figure out a way to control my kuro without the ir remote
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post #25403 of 28726
1/24/11 at 10:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by saildoc View Post
My low hours 101 suddenly developed a problem last night-the cable feed going into HDMI input 5 started flashing on and off-the screen will show the picture for 8-10 seconds then goes black for 5 or so seconds that back to picture again. Moved the input to HDMI 7 and it was fine. Should I be worried? Any ideas on what is going on? Set was purchased new from an ebay retailer so I don't have a legit dealer reciept (was lied too by the ebay dealer).
Thanks
I agree with jmmesch...I think it sounds like a flaky HDMI connection. Some cables have poor connectors that yield a "sloppy" fit and the slightest movement can affect the signal. It's also possible for components themselves to have a loose-fitting HDMI jack.

You cuold try another cable, or just continue to use an input that seems to be more stable.
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post #25404 of 28726
1/24/11 at 10:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hayb2006 View Post
does anybody know if kuros are rihd compatible?.... Just trying to figure out a way to control my kuro without the ir remote
RIHD? They do also support serial control through the RS232 port, if you have a compatible control system.

EDIT: Okay, I just looked. That's just one manufacturer's name for HDMI Control. Yes, that's supported.
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post #25405 of 28726
1/24/11 at 11:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog

RIHD? They do also support serial control through the RS232 port, if you have a compatible control system.

EDIT: Okay, I just looked. That's just one manufacturer's name for HDMI Control. Yes, that's supported.
Cool because I'm using a gear4 unity remote (via my iPhone) that will be placed in a closet so I have no line of site and would at least like to be able to turn my kuro on and off via hdmi

Thanks,
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post #25406 of 28726
1/24/11 at 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryB1124 View Post

I have mine set on full with Orbiter on 1. My gaming consists of sports games only, but with those there are no problems with lag at all.

Same here, I use Game mode with contrast turned down to about 15, screen size at full and orbiter set on 1. Might as well let it shift the picture around to help prevent any kind of image retention, which I have yet to see from gaming, I have seen a bit from tv shows, but nothing drastic. The other thing I do with my games, again mostly consisting of NHL 2011 and NCAA Football right now, is for NHL I turn off the scoreboard that is always on screen, so I have no static scorebar on the screen while playing this game (kind of like a static HUD any of those I turn off in the games options). I wish EA would have the same option for football though. With these games I zoom the picture as that usually will push the scorebar off the screen. Also makes it easier to see players down field.
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post #25407 of 28726
1/24/11 at 12:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayb2006 View Post

Does anybody know if kuros are RIHD compatible?

Strictly speaking all the vendor branded versions of CEC are only "compatible" within the same vendor product line. I suspect that Onkyo has that caution in their manual, certainly Pioneer does.

Assuming that it does work you should be prepared to be unhappy with the end result. I think most people are disappointed.
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post #25408 of 28726
1/24/11 at 12:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

Assuming that it does work you should be prepared to be unhappy with the end result. I think most people are disappointed.

I agree. HDMI Control is a very clumsy solution, at best. I would recommend just about any other control setup before resorting to that.
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post #25409 of 28726
1/24/11 at 3:24pm
Hey guys , I just found something out that is kinda bugging me, I am in the middle of getting a new receiver so I installed some computer speakers to the headphone jack on the 151 then plugged in my blu-ray player and cable box HDMIs to input 5 and 6, the receiver used input 4. Anyhow I am in input 5 and the PQ looked like crap, it was on performance mode so I went in to switch it to ISF night and there is no ISF night available!!! So the ISF modes are only on input 4!!! What the heck is this all about, why are the ISF modes not on every input or at least inputs 4,5&6?
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post #25410 of 28726
1/24/11 at 3:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamMasterJames View Post

Hey guys , I just found something out that is kinda bugging me, I am in the middle of getting a new receiver so I installed some computer speakers to the headphone jack on the 151 then plugged in my blu-ray player and cable box HDMis to input 5 and 6, the receiver used input 4. Anyhow I am in input 5 and the PQ looked like crap, it was on performance mode so I went in to switch it to ISF night and there is no ISF night available!!! So the ISF modes are only on input 4!!! What the heck is this all about, why are the ISF modes not on every input or at least inputs 4,5&6?

The ISF modes are activated on a per input basis, so it sounds like your calibrator only activated and calibrated input 4. If you ever have him come back out for a "tune-up," you could ask him to copy the settings over to the other inputs. (Kinda lame that he didn't already do that....) Alternately, you could get ControlCAL and do it yourself.
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