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The Official Pioneer 9G Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 942

post #28231 of 30278
The red problem is red tint on an area of the screen. It is not something that would affect skin tones, except in that area.
post #28232 of 30278
Oh ok, thanks. I guess I at least don't have that issue.

Not to be repetitive, but the more I read reviews on Amazon seriously there has to be problems... Everyone talking about how "jaw dropping" the picture is, how unbelievable shadw detail where you see thigns you didn't see on other tvs, unbelievable deep blacks. I don't feel like that when watching really anything thus far. I've tried several tvs with better picture than I'm getting.

How much is settings-related and how much is black level issue-related, I don't now, but I am pretty pessimistic as to it ever getting fixed.
Edited by somelogin - 4/5/13 at 2:11am
post #28233 of 30278
At this point, no one will be able to solve the situation (if it's not defective) without actually being in front of the display. The best chance of getting it right, is going with a pro calibrator. Barring that, this conversation will most likely go on and on without resolution. So if you're not willing (or in a situation) to have a qualified person look at it, my advice would be to sell it and buy a Panasonic.
Edited by dsskid - 4/5/13 at 4:27am
post #28234 of 30278
^Or wait until he improves his debt situation (an area with which I'm far too familiar). wink.gif
post #28235 of 30278
As the situation presents itself, he is dissatified with the picture provided by his Kuro display.

From his previous posts, he has stated that the display came with D-Nice's settings, to which he said made the blacks worse than those of an LCD. He tried making adjustments himself with a WOW disc, and again was not satisfied with the results.

Since these displays were shipped from the factory with the preset settings very close to accurate, it would lead me to believe that either the previous owner changed something that isn't apparent to those here on the forum, or the display is somewhat defective.

The chances of having someone diagnosis the problem without being in front of it gets exceedingly slimmer, or could possibly make it worse, which is why I offered the advice that I gave.

I don't pretend to know everyone's financial situation, nor do I assume that they know mine. I was simply stating my thoughts on his finding resolution, whether it be this week, or six months from now.
post #28236 of 30278
When I suggested that he wait until his financial situation improves, I only meant until he could afford to bring in a pro calibrator. I'm not pretending either, just inferring based on some of the comments he's made.
post #28237 of 30278
dsskid, how in the world could settings make the tv glow to around LCD level? I bet on a perfectly functioning kuro or panasonic or samsung plasma you could turn settings to crazy numbers and not get a full black screen THAT bright. Only way I would think it could be settings is if controlcal caused the issue when he used it. No normal setting would be able to cause that and if it could, I would not be crazy enough to have them at such outrageous settings as to be able to cause it, anyway.

I keep posting in case someone who knows about actual repairs will say "that sounds like it could be A, B, or C". Basically there is that excessive glowing issue and then also the images aren't as three dimensional as other plasmas I've tried. People's skin, for example, seems kind of bland or I guess washed out where detail and uniformity isnt as good as a plasma usually has. I figured by mentining all of this, someone may have some ideas about it.

Nothing to do with the power cord itself could cause such weird issues, could it? Because it looked like it had maybe been pulling apart and had tape on it. I would assume that would just affect if it worked at all or not rather than have it work, but with worse black levels.

Also I am posting to see if anyone has an idea of how to best word it to get a warranty even honored over this when they may just see the picture and say "looks fine to me" even if they do come out.

As for selling, then whoever buys it will be in the same situation and be mad I sold it without saying. And if I sell it while mentioning it, it would be a ton of money flushed down the drain because nobody would pay what I did if they thought something was wrong. The guy kept trying to convince me NOT to buy it because another person was going to pay him more. But obviously if he thinks something's wrong, he won't. And the only way the Panasonic is an option is if it magically has no flicker noticeable to me, despite the 2011 and 2012 ones having it. Otherwise, I really have no other good options other than keep this.

I just don't see how you can recommend getting a professional calibration on something that may be defective! Then I would have to get a second soon after.
post #28238 of 30278
are both the kuro and your bluray player set to rgb limited?

have you reset all kuro settings to default?

is the problem occurring on multiple sources? multiple tv inputs? try using a different source or a different hdmi port on the kuro... different cables... remove any inline devices if any.

if you are tight on cash and want to find a solution now you could tinker with the panel's voltages (make sure you write down the original values before making any changes)

i have a 101fd and my blacks are inky except on an all black screen or on low contrast scenes. at first i was dissapointed with it, as, like you, i expected better considering the glowing reviews this tv gets. not sure if this is normal behavior on the kuros, but i expected better. dont get me wrong, i still think the tv is awesome. perhaps your expectation was a bit too high.
post #28239 of 30278
btw you can use kurocontrol software to get the hours on your panel
post #28240 of 30278
^The only thing darker than a (non-D-Nice calibrated) 101FD is a Sharp Elite or Sony full-array LED panel.
post #28241 of 30278
Well, the thing is, people can spin black levels different ways. For instance, I have an hx929 and it gets way darker, since it can turn the lights off. but people have always insisted that with mixed content on the screen, nothing could get better levels than plasmas. However, I'm not even so sure it's doing better on those types of scenes either. I don't have the hx929 in a place to compare, although may do it. Also, though, I'm pretty sure the 0 mll for the kuro is worse than for recent panasonics, so i don't understand why people say the kuros still have the best. I must be misunderstanding something there.

But, anyway, it could always be possible my expectations were too high, but if so then the kuro is far worse than the panasonics with complete black because I did NOT ever see a hugely glowing screen on the ST50 I tried. So when I say it's bright, I mean even compared to other plasmas.

I haven't tried another input, but that may be worth trying. I have every component hooked straight to my sound bar via hdmi cables because the kuro, like many others, would not be able to output dts audio. All of the sources seem to be about the same, as far as this issue, so it's not any of the actual components' hdmi cables causing it. I doubt the main one, either, as the cable is pretty recently bought from monoprice.

If I reset settings, though, won't it just reset the ones in the user menus? I already know how all of those are set and they are fine. The service menu is where maybe he made changes, although I doubt it because using controlcal you can't change all service menu options can you?
post #28242 of 30278
^Nope, your anomalous set notwithstanding, the factory 9G mll (0.001 ftL) has not yet been reached by the Panasonics, though the ZT60 might be pulling it off this year. And yes, an hx929 is the full-array tech I was referencing that can conceivably go deeper than the Kuro. wink.gif
post #28243 of 30278
Btw, I guess I see why some say it could be settings. You can change voltage settings? I didn't realize that, so those I guess,a re what some are thinking maybe a calibrator could solve it with?
post #28244 of 30278
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

^Nope, your anomalous set notwithstanding, the factory 9G mll (0.001 ftL) has not yet been reached by the Panasonics, though the ZT60 might be pulling it off this year.
I have a feeling it will, but Panasonic insisted their 2011 ones would beat the kuros also. If it DOES beat it, even still, I bet it's unlikely it would get as accurate colors too. At least from CNET numbers, the VT50, for example, had not nearly perfect colors. Will be interesting to see how the ZT does, though.
post #28245 of 30278
Quote:
Originally Posted by somelogin View Post

Btw, I guess I see why some say it could be settings. You can change voltage settings? I didn't realize that, so those I guess,a re what some are thinking maybe a calibrator could solve it with?
Yes, but requires removal of the back paneling.

It's shocking how deep these sets can go. D-Nice has managed to use the technique to get his 101FD to 0.0001 and the 500M/141FD to 0.0005.
post #28246 of 30278
I wonder if the average person who does repairs would measure black levels and know how to do proper voltage changes. I also still wonder if the occasional popping noise could be related to the same thing. Too bad d-nice isn't close enough. frown.gif
post #28247 of 30278
kurocontrol says it only works with the elites which are monitors.
post #28248 of 30278
The popping noise definitely suggests there is something amiss. Mine only clicks when it's powered on and off (the power supply doing its thang, no doubt).

The Elites also have tuners, so they are advanced monitors. The 500M/600M are true monitors (no tuners).
post #28249 of 30278
I know, but I am just saying it specifically says the signature ones (the ones without tuners).

Well, I hope this gets solved some way or another eventually. At some point I may email Pioneer themselves just to ask about it, in case they even still answer things like that. I really hope it's something not involving a part or that it's a part still easily found. Hopefully someone here will know right off some certain issue is "most" likely to cause that. It's not the same clicking noise as the powering on/off, by the way, although is it normal when the tv turns on to have two clicking noises and one when turning it off? I assumed that was normal, although if it's not then maybe that second click is telling me something. The popping noises, though, sound different. Not as loud, for one thing. My parents have an LED which I hear making those noises and they don't ever even hear it. lol
post #28250 of 30278
Yea, I don't know much about KuroControl. ;( I managed to get a Harmony remote and connect it to an account where the service remote had been "learned," so I can check my hours that way.

I'll have to listen the next time I switch it on regarding a secondary click. There may be, memory's not real reliable on that point.
post #28251 of 30278
Yeah i read somewhere on here about that harmony trick, but figured it was more trouble than it's worth now. I do have a harmony remote, but I think mine is the 650.

As far as the clicking when the tv is turned on it's loud and does two of them. I noticed that right off because I've never heard a tv do more than one. But figured it was not an issue. Who knows.
post #28252 of 30278
Quote:
Originally Posted by somelogin View Post

Yeah i read somewhere on here about that harmony trick, but figured it was more trouble than it's worth now. I do have a harmony remote, but I think mine is the 650.

As far as the clicking when the tv is turned on it's loud and does two of them. I noticed that right off because I've never heard a tv do more than one. But figured it was not an issue. Who knows.

I have owned 3 9G Kuro's I wouldn't be concerned with the clicking noise.
post #28253 of 30278
Some things look "almost right" to me, so a lot could be settings as far as the picture, in general, but just pretty clear that the black levels are off. (I had just watched some content).
post #28254 of 30278
A couple of questions about the KRP 500M:

1- Is there any way to disable the automatic change in picture settings depending on the used source (resolutions/frequency..etc)? Other than using the Integrator menu to set global values, it's pretty annoying.

2- I play video games mostly and when I access the picture settings while in-game, the whole picture shifts in position by a small amount, why does that happen? I use orbiter mode 2 and it happens even in Full screen size.

3- Is it me or does the "Full" scree size zoom into the picture more than other 9G Kuros? Dot by dot is obviously not an option with a 720p source, any way to adjust how much it zooms in the picture? Or maybe this is all just in my head lol
Edited by metallicaband - 4/5/13 at 8:30pm
post #28255 of 30278
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

^The only thing darker than a (non-D-Nice calibrated) 101FD is a Sharp Elite or Sony full-array LED panel.

The sharp is not darker than a 101. It has the same black level, 0.0005. For ANSI the 101 and 500m are darker. I think the regular 9G's too.
post #28256 of 30278
Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post

are both the kuro and your bluray player set to rgb limited?

have you reset all kuro settings to default?

is the problem occurring on multiple sources? multiple tv inputs? try using a different source or a different hdmi port on the kuro... different cables... remove any inline devices if any.

if you are tight on cash and want to find a solution now you could tinker with the panel's voltages (make sure you write down the original values before making any changes)

i have a 101fd and my blacks are inky except on an all black screen or on low contrast scenes. at first i was dissapointed with it, as, like you, i expected better considering the glowing reviews this tv gets. not sure if this is normal behavior on the kuros, but i expected better. dont get me wrong, i still think the tv is awesome. perhaps your expectation was a bit too high.

I'm surprised when i hear 500m owners say this. Your black level is darker than my 151. Low contrast scenes should appear darker than what i see on my display. And what i see is a dark glow. It's not gray. Don't know if that makes sense since any glow should be gray. But i don't know, it's just dim. Especially full screen black.
post #28257 of 30278
Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

The sharp is not darker than a 101. It has the same black level, 0.0005.
I saw D-Nice measured it as low as 0.0004. That's pretty much equal for all intents and purposes, to be fair. Anyway, the dude managed to get it below the BL of the Sharp when combined with voltage adjustments. wink.gif
post #28258 of 30278
actually, i used kuroreader to get the hours off my panel. however, its not compatible.with the 111fd. here is a link http://www.avsforum.com/t/1175615/free-kuroreader-software-for-pioneer-krp-500m-krp-600m-pro-101fd-pro-141fd

you dont need to remove the back panel to tweak the voltages, you simply need a console serial connection to the kuro via a pc. check the red tint thread for more details. people in that thread were not only changing voltages, but also resetting counters that are vital to the kuro's nominal functionality. people who were experiencing red red tint reset their counters and reported inky blacks. however, because the kuro uses these counters to make voltage adjustments as the panel ages, those people experienced further issues later, since the kuro's counter was no longer accurate. perhaps this is whats going on with your set. those users reportedly have to make continued voltage adjustments to override the innacurate adjustments made by the kuro.

before trying that, i would remove your soundbar from the equation and try different inputs on the kuro. remember to set both your bluray player and kuro to rgb limited. try a different hdmi cable, different bluray player to try to isolate the issue. it doesnt hurt to try at this point.
post #28259 of 30278
btw calibrators will not touch voltage settings or counters. those are not meant to be adjusted by the user. the kuro automatically adjusts voltage levels as the panel ages. i dont recommend you reset any of the counters, as those changes are not reversible. however, tinkering with the voltages is not permanent, as you can easily input your current voltages (make sure you write them down before making changes).

like i said before, first remove your soundbar from the equation and make sure the kuro and bluray player are set to rgb limited. then try different hdmi cables and a different bluray player. if all these fail, then and only then would i consider making voltage adjustments.

i think that, if your panel really has an issue, then the previous owner screwed with the settings and/or counters, and the negative consequences of doing so are finally occurring.
post #28260 of 30278
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

I saw D-Nice measured it as low as 0.0004. That's pretty much equal for all intents and purposes, to be fair. Anyway, the dude managed to get it below the BL of the Sharp when combined with voltage adjustments. wink.gif

I would be intrigued at seeing the before and after with the black level tweak on a 500m or 101fd. I recently sold my 500m, but still have a 101fd and I will say the black levels on these monitors are good enough for me. Would I like it if my next tv had better, sure I would but they are already so good, I am completely satisfied. The 3d like depth you get with these monitors is insane. I honestly don't see how you could improve upon that aspect. There is a slight glow with the darkest scenes but, imo it's very tolerable and a small price for what you get overall. I think D-Nice said a while back that the tweak does improve that to a degree, so that would be nice!
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