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The Official Pioneer 9G Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 966

post #28951 of 30268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixdoctor View Post

Actually I have looked but cannot find........How do you check the hours on a 151FD?

You have to use control cal.
post #28952 of 30268
Quote:
Originally Posted by newb2012 View Post

You have to use control cal.


that's the only way that I know...you can half guess by how long you owned it and how often you use it..gonna have to check my 111fd again soon. Forget what it was last year.
post #28953 of 30268
You do NOT need ControlCAL to check the hours on a 151. But frankly, if you do NOT have CC for it, you are doing yourself a disservice. Fall in love with the TV again... smile.gif

All you need to check hours is a serial terminal connection to the TV and your regular Pio remote. That's all I'm going to say, due to you'll be in Service Mode and bad stuff could accidentally happen. It's easy and is mentioned throughout the web, probably somewhere on this forum even, but for sure plenty of places, not necessarily in English (hint) that google translates with a click. (Much of the world was on their own when it came to acquiring and servicing Kuros, so they have very resourceful communities.) BTW this facility is an option with CC, which you might as well get if you get CC.
post #28954 of 30268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixdoctor View Post

Actually I have looked but cannot find........How do you check the hours on a 151FD?

A member here setup a harmony account where you could download the service remote code he had to a harmony 1. But someone changed the password. He said he was going to fix it but never got back to us.

You could try to PM him and ask if he set it back up again.

http://www.avsforum.com/u/54687/dcpmark

I think the password change was intentional. Somebody doesn't want free information out there. I got my remote setup, as did a ton others, so ha.
post #28955 of 30268
I have always had ControlCal........Heck have it for every TV I now have. Where in CC does it tell you the hours?
post #28956 of 30268
^ It's an optional extra-cost module.

I think it's probably possible to do most (including "unadvised") things without a service remote (or its learned codes), just using a serial connection and the regular remote. Obviously the service remote/clone is more convenient.

But ControlCAL doesn't use Service Mode when you use it normally for actual calibration. So if you use it you need the whole serial connection apparatus anyway, so it's not really much extra trouble to have to use that plus the regular Pio remote to check hours.
post #28957 of 30268
Quote:
Originally Posted by prepress View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post


I'll replace our 60" Kuro when it's stone cold dead. biggrin.gif

Ditto. Having been at the Value Electronics shoot-out in May, I would get a VT60 if my Kuro goes down with no hope of repair or reasonably-priced repair. But only under that circumstance.
smile.gif
post #28958 of 30268
yeah,the first Pro150FD hit about 29th of August 2007, it's only ~9 1/2 months and the new models are out, wow.21.gif
post #28959 of 30268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonyboy View Post

Chad B calibrated my 101fd a few months ago and my isf day mode is at 52ftl . He could have gone to 60 if I'm not mistaken.

60FTL eek.gif

That's HUGE smile.gif

Presumably that's 60 before clipping occurs. Wonder what the record is for a 50" 9G...
post #28960 of 30268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

60FTL eek.gif

That's HUGE smile.gif

Presumably that's 60 before clipping occurs. Wonder what the record is for a 50" 9G...

Wow... I think that my retinas would burn out of my skull.

I'm thinking that I may be overly sensitive to light. I find it difficult to watch TV in pure darkness without any ambient light. My eyes feel like they dry out within minutes. In addition, I almost exclusively watched my 101FD in ISF Night with the contrast set to 27. Even on the brightest of sunny days that was plenty of light output for me. I have no idea what this (roughly) translates to in fL, but I would love to know. (anyone?) My new Kuro (again, model and comparison forthcoming... I've found the results surprising) came calibrated by Chad B and has the contrast planted at 40. Other posted settings -- including those posted by D-Nice -- also have the contrast at 40 for this particular panel. Honestly, it's been a bit difficult to make the transition to a brighter picture, but if it's consensus that this is optimal for the panel then I'll stick with it for at least a while and see if I can get used to it.
post #28961 of 30268
I have just finished my latest calibration on a UK KRP-600m and tried 50fl, which I found too bright for me and my environment, it would have gone even higher if I wanted eek.gif

I settled on ~48 for ISF day and ~38 for night and find this perfect for me, the PQ and POP is outstanding at this contrast ratio and with gamma 3 gives a slight curve which enhances shadow detail and white detail, definitely a keeper for a long time smile.gif

You can get these displays extremely accurate as per my current charts below, blue is generally a little high on these displays due to the filter characteristics and show up even more so with an i1pro as this colour is stated to be on the limits of the reading capability of an i1 along with the least perceivable colour by human eye to detect for any errors anyway.

I will be looking to get calman 5 and an display 3 pro to tweak the below 20% greyscale at some point.

1 thing I would like to point out for anyone calibrating is do not touch green in the grayscale as this robs the image quality and clarity.


ISF DAY

Day_Grey_230613best_zps7ee09315.png


Day_CMS_230613_zps674f3262.png


ISF Night

Night_Grey_230613BEST_zpsab6f9b48.png


Night_CMS_230613_zps72180386.png
post #28962 of 30268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixdoctor View Post

I have always had ControlCal........Heck have it for every TV I now have. Where in CC does it tell you the hours?

You can use the Kurocontol app posted on AVS for getting into the service menu via RS232, then navigate to hours used, using the standard remote.
post #28963 of 30268
Quote:
Originally Posted by curly21029 View Post

Wow... I think that my retinas would burn out of my skull.

I'm thinking that I may be overly sensitive to light. I find it difficult to watch TV in pure darkness without any ambient light. My eyes feel like they dry out within minutes. In addition, I almost exclusively watched my 101FD in ISF Night with the contrast set to 27. Even on the brightest of sunny days that was plenty of light output for me. I have no idea what this (roughly) translates to in fL, but I would love to know. (anyone?) My new Kuro (again, model and comparison forthcoming... I've found the results surprising) came calibrated by Chad B and has the contrast planted at 40. Other posted settings -- including those posted by D-Nice -- also have the contrast at 40 for this particular panel. Honestly, it's been a bit difficult to make the transition to a brighter picture, but if it's consensus that this is optimal for the panel then I'll stick with it for at least a while and see if I can get used to it.

Me too, the ol retinas would get a touch dry to say the least. I would never be able to watch (even in a bright room) anything remotely like over 50ftl. Especially sitting an average of 5ft like i do. At the moment i am sat 3ft with the slides going in its bottom base box. When i next see my calibrator in a few months i am going to ask for an ISF Day (absolutely maxed out) just so i know it's there basically. My mum when she comes over to babysit my 3yr old boy likes a very bright image. I think it's because her eyes are not what they once were lol, being in nearly her mid sixties. And a ISF night for myself approximately in the 32ftl range. One day though i would like to venture into the self calibration stuff though with some reasonable equipment, or whatever i can afford, maybe better to go second hand but better performing. My dad used to work in a kind of studio before things went out to print etc, nothing major - but he knows what accurate/neutral greys look like that's for sure, although he is retired now. Maybe it's in the blood lol. But for the moment i will need to stick to my disks and my eyes i guess.
Edited by Stu03 - 7/11/13 at 7:48am
post #28964 of 30268
^ Same here. I tried using ISF Day at night, with a proper backlight, and I didn't even last a half hour. I could feel my eyes frying away. I know for a fact this doesn't bother "most" people, especially young ones. Oh well, it's always there for when the cataracts get really bad. (I probably shouldn't joke about that...)
post #28965 of 30268
Ha then most of you guys are perfect candidates for a ZT60, especially since they I hven't seen one calibrated past 40ftl. I on the other hand am the one complaining that I want the ZT I have to give me 50ftl like my Kuro!
post #28966 of 30268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

Me too, the ol retinas would get a touch dry to say the least. I would never be able to watch (even in a bright room) anything remotely like over 50ftl. Especially sitting an average of 5ft like i do. At the moment i am sat 3ft with the slides going in its bottom base box. When i next see my calibrator in a few months i am going to ask for an ISF Day (absolutely maxed out) just so i know it's there basically. My mum when she comes over to babysit my 3yr old boy likes a very bright image. I think it's because her eyes are not what they once were lol, being in nearly her mid sixties. And a ISF night for myself approximately in the 32ftl range. One day though i would like to venture into the self calibration stuff though with some reasonable equipment, or whatever i can afford, maybe better to go second hand but better performing. My dad used to work in a kind of studio before things went out to print etc, nothing major - but he knows what accurate/neutral greys look like that's for sure, although he is retired now. Maybe it's in the blood lol. But for the moment i will need to stick to my disks and my eyes i guess.

It's actually not to bad at 52ftl. My favorite mode is isf night at 32Ftl and pure is 39ftl. Night is the best, but day is really nice for gaming and days when I have the blinds open. I wish I would have let Chad put it at 60ftl just to have it maxed. Whilie I definitely notice it's brighter than the other modes, it's not overly bright to me. There is nothing like watching a bluray late night with the lights dimmed and Isf night doing it's thing!!!

@ Hitman

Nice job dialing your 600m in. That looks really nice!!
post #28967 of 30268
Hitman.

Do you find it hard self calibrating? Is it easy to learn?

What do you think of this software?

http://www.chromapure.com/newgear_display3.asp
post #28968 of 30268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixdoctor View Post

Ha then most of you guys are perfect candidates for a ZT60, especially since they I hven't seen one calibrated past 40ftl.

No thanks... heh. smile.gif

EDIT:

I just couldn't leave things alone and decided to back off my contrast from 40 to 32 tonight. To be honest, it looks better to my eyes -- more natural. As previously stated my panel had been professionally calibrated and the settings disclosed here and elsewhere corroborate the brighter setting as "accurate," so am I doing any great harm to my performance other than peak luminance by tweaking this setting? Since I just did this about an hour ago, I can't say I've noticed any drawbacks but also have yet to cycle through my usual reference content.
Edited by curly21029 - 7/11/13 at 6:53pm
post #28969 of 30268
Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

Hitman.

Do you find it hard self calibrating? Is it easy to learn?

What do you think of this software?

http://www.chromapure.com/newgear_display3.asp

It was hard at first as there is a lot to learn and get your head round but once you overcome this it's quick fluid but I've been calibrating my displays for about 8 years starting out with the free HCFR (check the AVS thread), now it's much easier especially when you get used to how a display performs and when you see your own results is very gratifying.

Chromapure looks really good but I've not had experience of using it and IS a choice I will also be looking at.



Quote:
Originally Posted by curly21029 View Post

No thanks... heh. smile.gif

EDIT:

I just couldn't leave things alone and decided to back off my contrast from 40 to 32 tonight. To be honest, it looks better to my eyes -- more natural. As previously stated my panel had been professionally calibrated and the settings disclosed here and elsewhere corroborate the brighter setting as "accurate," so am I doing any great harm to my performance other than peak luminance by tweaking this setting? Since I just did this about an hour ago, I can't say I've noticed any drawbacks but also have yet to cycle through my usual reference content.

In my experience I've seen reports of some Kuro's bottoming out at contrast 40, most day calibrations are ~36/38fl and night @ ~32!

Lowering your contrast will affect mainly the grayscale with some impact on gamma and the gamut.
post #28970 of 30268
What is it with 'some' Panasonic fanboy's (this isn't aimed at vinnie or mixdoctor) but just had an experience on AV forums with a right couple of ignorant clowns on a Panasonic vt65 noisy fans thread. Not in so many words - but because i offered an opinion (or more so advice tbh) of basically saying don't let the noisy fans get into your head, these are there for a reason...

But nope - because they know i own a Kuro it was taken as "comparison" or turning it into a competition with their pathetic insecure panasonic fanboy's ways.

But you know the types - the types who wouldn't think twice of coming onto a Kuro thread - and offering "opinions".

Meh
post #28971 of 30268
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Hitman- View Post


Chromapure looks really good but I've not had experience of using it and IS a choice I will also be looking at.
In my experience I've seen reports of some Kuro's bottoming out at contrast 40, most day calibrations are ~36/38fl and night @ ~32!

Lowering your contrast will affect mainly the grayscale with some impact on gamma and the gamut.

Thank you very much for your reply! Also, nice calibration results! smile.gif

Another question if you don't mind me asking, I know that the default for nearly any display seems to be the lowest value, but how do you personally set sharpness? I've cycled through several test patterns on DVE and WOW and am observing that the least amount of harm is being done at -7 and -5. On my 101FD, it was -12. (if I remember correctly...) -15 on both displays seemed to add some noise/artifacts on specific patterns.

Unfortunately, as I must head to work soon I don't have the time to cycle back through them and list the specific patterns and what I'm observing, but I can tonight or tomorrow.
post #28972 of 30268
Quote:
Originally Posted by curly21029 View Post

Thank you very much for your reply! Also, nice calibration results! smile.gif

Another question if you don't mind me asking, I know that the default for nearly any display seems to be the lowest value, but how do you personally set sharpness? I've cycled through several test patterns on DVE and WOW and am observing that the least amount of harm is being done at -7 and -5. On my 101FD, it was -12. (if I remember correctly...) -15 on both displays seemed to add some noise/artifacts on specific patterns.

Unfortunately, as I must head to work soon I don't have the time to cycle back through them and list the specific patterns and what I'm observing, but I can tonight or tomorrow.

Your welcome and thank you.

I certainly don't mind any questions, so ask away!

I set my sharpness from where I sit as this is relative to where the display is viewed and just use the pattern in the AVSHD 709 disk or Mascior's, checking the solid shape/line edges for contamination.

-15 is regarded as the zero setting (no edge enhancement) on G9's and the softest setting, never heard of -15 adding enhancement but quite the opposite, if you still get the same effect with the basic patterns, I would be looking for any other enhancement setting being used, either in the other display settings or in the source .

Keep it simple with sharpness and the patterns used, (the different available calibration disks that AVS members have created use one general pattern for sharpness).
post #28973 of 30268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

What is it with 'some' Panasonic fanboy's (this isn't aimed at vinnie or mixdoctor) but just had an experience on AV forums with a right couple of ignorant clowns on a Panasonic vt65 noisy fans thread. Not in so many words - but because i offered an opinion (or more so advice tbh) of basically saying don't let the noisy fans get into your head, these are there for a reason...

But nope - because they know i own a Kuro it was taken as "comparison" or turning it into a competition with their pathetic insecure panasonic fanboy's ways.

But you know the types - the types who wouldn't think twice of coming onto a Kuro thread - and offering "opinions".

Meh

or wishing they owned a Kuro...biggrin.gif
post #28974 of 30268
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Hitman- View Post

It was hard at first as there is a lot to learn and get your head round but once you overcome this it's quick fluid but I've been calibrating my displays for about 8 years starting out with the free HCFR (check the AVS thread), now it's much easier especially when you get used to how a display performs and when you see your own results is very gratifying.

Chromapure looks really good but I've not had experience of using it and IS a choice I will also be looking at.

Thanks for the reply. How long do you think it would take a newcomer like me to learn the most basic form of calibration? I'm not looking to be an expert, just know enough where i can get good enough results out of my display.

Chomapure does look lika a good software. The price helps too. Haha.

I didn't know there was a free software available? Can you link me the thread?
post #28975 of 30268
Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

Thanks for the reply. How long do you think it would take a newcomer like me to learn the most basic form of calibration? I'm not looking to be an expert, just know enough where i can get good enough results out of my display.

Chomapure does look lika a good software. The price helps too. Haha.

I didn't know there was a free software available? Can you link me the thread?

Well that depends on how well you as an individual can pick it up, I am still learning things smile.gif But don't let that put you off, I was sceptical at first but now absolutely love this science, especially when you see "in the flesh" your own work!

I would look at the HCFR thread and have a good read through, all you need is a good sensor and laptop, software and disks a freely available, the when you are confident enough move on to the premium softwares!

HCFR was developed some years ago (originated from a French forum like AVS) but stopped being updated, however a few AVS member have recently taken it back up to improve it and it's support for newer meters, which is great news.

Here is the link to the new thread....

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1393853/fork-of-hcfr-started-whats-needed

I would also look at the excellent tutorial which will encourage and start you off, without being too complex, here...

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457

As a beginner I would recommend starting with just the basic bri/Con and grayscale range calibration at first and when you get used to fine tuning that, move on to the Gamut (CMS) and so on, don't run before walking.

When you want to do the CMS, Tom Huffman has posted a great tutorial for this.

Of course any questions please do ask smile.gif
post #28976 of 30268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

What is it with 'some' Panasonic fanboy's (this isn't aimed at vinnie or mixdoctor) but just had an experience on AV forums with a right couple of ignorant clowns on a Panasonic vt65 noisy fans thread. Not in so many words - but because i offered an opinion (or more so advice tbh) of basically saying don't let the noisy fans get into your head, these are there for a reason...

But nope - because they know i own a Kuro it was taken as "comparison" or turning it into a competition with their pathetic insecure panasonic fanboy's ways.

But you know the types - the types who wouldn't think twice of coming onto a Kuro thread - and offering "opinions".

Meh

You just answered the question as to why I posted my ZT question on this thread.
post #28977 of 30268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

What is it with 'some' Panasonic fanboy's (this isn't aimed at vinnie or mixdoctor) but just had an experience on AV forums with a right couple of ignorant clowns on a Panasonic vt65 noisy fans thread. Not in so many words - but because i offered an opinion (or more so advice tbh) of basically saying don't let the noisy fans get into your head, these are there for a reason...

But nope - because they know i own a Kuro it was taken as "comparison" or turning it into a competition with their pathetic insecure panasonic fanboy's ways.

But you know the types - the types who wouldn't think twice of coming onto a Kuro thread - and offering "opinions".

Meh
Jealous biters, those types, though, to be fair, I'm a little jealous I didn't get a 101FD/500M when the getting was good. wink.gif
post #28978 of 30268
Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

Thanks for the reply. How long do you think it would take a newcomer like me to learn the most basic form of calibration? I'm not looking to be an expert, just know enough where i can get good enough results out of my display.

Chomapure does look lika a good software. The price helps too. Haha.

I didn't know there was a free software available? Can you link me the thread?

I was just going to say that I did *exactly* what Hitman told you. That "curtpalme" article is especially good IMO and probably should be your first reading if you decide to "start cheap" with HCFR. I'm using an i1 Display Pro.

Disclaimer: I have never calibrated anything. I am in the same position as you, and am playing around with making small changes and taking readings to see what happens, to get a feel for things. That meter is darn fast IMO, don't know how good it is but seems quite consistent anyway.

You should probably have ControlCAL to get the best visual results, because apparently there are some unique features of the ISF modes that you can't get any other way. Besides all the other good aspects (incl. setup memories and gamma setting). I guess you could add it later. Myself, I'm waiting to get a pro calibration if his schedule works out, but I figured I'd need CC anyways just to subsequently access the cal for any reason.

So this whole thing is a backup plan for me, but I've been meaning to learn how to do it for years and never got around to it until now.
post #28979 of 30268
eek.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Hitman- View Post

You can use the Kurocontol app posted on AVS for getting into the service menu via RS232, then navigate to hours used, using the standard remote.

Doesn't look like it works on a 151fd. Only on the 500m's it seems. I am not sure if the ControlCal module works with the latest versions of Controlcal either.
post #28980 of 30268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixdoctor View Post

eek.gif
Doesn't look like it works on a 151fd. Only on the 500m's it seems. I am not sure if the ControlCal module works with the latest versions of Controlcal either.

Is this not just regarding using the ISF modes with elites?

I thought you could at least get the service menu up with it using the 232 commands, it is listed for 500M/600M and elites and works fine with my 600M.
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