or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Plasma Flat Panel Displays › The Official Pioneer 9G Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The Official Pioneer 9G Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 974

post #29191 of 30261
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

It's much closer than halfway and 90% of my viewing with the Kuro was in a darkened environment, not too different from the new panel. In that setting, there isn't really a longing for the panel it replaced. I can say the same for moderate lighting (probably not for brighter). I don't think it's any secret that an OLED will be the only tech at this juncture to beat the maximum attainable black level on any Kuro (and simultaneously go brighter). Any Pioneer panel aside from the 101FD/500M, however, is approximately on par with what Panasonic has unleashed in the low-end.

Then this equates to why you post what you do but to say what you have that it's beaten, when you personally have and use a specific controlled and limited environment vus relating to your limited experience with a Kuro and is not really credible is it and an incorrect/limited view as to the full potential of a display here.

The Zt is close in black level but I'd bet if you brought your Kuro back into the same room, I think you would then take back that it's been beaten!
post #29192 of 30261
Holy run-on, batman. smile.gif Anyway, you are adding statements to my post that I did not make. I watched them side-by-side before selling the 111FD, the black level was a wash and pretty much equivalent. The enveloping experience provided by a 69% increase in screen size from 10 feet out made any max fTL concerns trivial, especially since no serious videophile watches outside of a controlled lighting environment.
post #29193 of 30261
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

It's much closer than halfway and 90% of my viewing with the Kuro was in a darkened environment, not too different from the new panel. In that setting, there isn't really a longing for the panel it replaced. I can say the same for moderate lighting (probably not for brighter). I don't think it's any secret that an OLED will be the only tech at this juncture to beat the maximum attainable black level on any Kuro (and simultaneously go brighter). Any Pioneer panel aside from the 101FD/500M, however, is approximately on par with what Panasonic has unleashed in the low-end.

YOTR, I think that was a fair comparison and less biased than most. I don't/didn't envy your position, since you already had a 60" panel...I saw in another thread that you "settled" on the VT.

I used to be a videophile but not any more. I am sure the Kuro is still the better display but I don't believe it's night and day at all. Again I have owned a lot of kuro's including the 500m/600m (so basically an Elite) and yes they were better compared to the new VT series but not leaps and bounds. I am not going to tell someone they are wrong if they think there Kuro blows away the VT series or Samsung's offerings. I will state though that I have been in the Kuro family for close to 5 years and know that the difference is marginal. If someone disagrees, then that's perfectly fine also smile.gif. Having opinions and discussions are a good thing. Remember also that my main display was a 6020 (obviously not an elite) with red tint/grey black levels for the last 3 years. It was great at the beginning but I have been living with those two problems for over a year (so I got used to them). I am sure the grey could be calibrated back to a darker level but the red tint really does affect everything.

Again I'm not a videophile like I used to be, so crunching numbers to show the marginal differences between the sets is not something I care about anymore. If however you want the most pure experience possible, Kuro is still it. If my Kuro had not developed the red tint issue (it was getting very noticeable), then I would have kept mine.

It was hard Vinnie97. I don't want to settle for anything but the Samsung lag issue was a concern and the price (even with the recent drop) was still almost $500 more than what I got the VT60 for. I went ahead and got the 65" so at least I got a bump in size. I think I would have had regrets had I not got the largest size available anyway. I am nervous because this is my first plasma outside of the Kuro line. I know the pros and cons with Panasonic's displays so hopefully I can adjust. The Kuro wasn't perfect either and had plenty of little annoyances.
post #29194 of 30261
^The ZT is the first plasma I've had outside of the Kuro line also (owned two 5020FDs and a 111FD). It's easy to say from a distance that X easily crushes Y based on measurements, but seeing them in your own viewing environment is believing.
Edited by vinnie97 - 8/19/13 at 11:52am
post #29195 of 30261
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Holy run-on, batman. smile.gif Anyway, you are adding statements to my post that I did not make. I watched them side-by-side before selling the 111FD, the black level was a wash and pretty much equivalent. The enveloping experience provided by a 69% increase in screen size from 10 feet out made any max fTL concerns trivial, especially since no serious videophile watches outside of a controlled lighting environment.

It was a statement to reflect your opinion smile.gif

I would disagree that every videophile uses said environment (eg. one that could not afford such a specialist room), If the displays were similar then I would suspect the calibration was out.
post #29196 of 30261
Yea, I doubt it. The 111FD had been calibrated approximately 1500 hours prior to the comparison, by Dave Abrams of Avical (one of the traveling professionals who has scores of happy customers). There is not a black level rise epidemic in the Pioneer 9G. wink.gif
post #29197 of 30261
YOTR I completely agree that there's not a night and day difference and the PQ is not far away, my point was the kuro has not been bettered as some like to think so.
post #29198 of 30261
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Yea, I doubt it. The 111FD had been calibrated approximately 1500 hours prior to the comparison, by Dave Abrams of Avical (one of the traveling professionals who has scores of happy customers). There is not a black level rise epidemic in the Pioneer 9G. wink.gif

Lol, your opinion is proven flawed, so what do I make of this^ wink.gif
post #29199 of 30261
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Hitman- View Post

YOTR I completely agree that there's not a night and day difference and the PQ is not far away, my point was the kuro has not been bettered as some like to think so.
Who's saying that? The most anyone has said is that the Kuro has met its match. "What we have here is a failure to communicate."
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Hitman- View Post

Lol, your opinion is proven flawed, so what do I make of this^ wink.gif
My opinion is proven flawed? Really? In your mind perhaps.

Scott Wilkinson's opinion is reflective of mine, so I guess his is, too: www.avsforum.com/t/1482090/informal-comparison-panasonic-tc-p65zt60-tc-p65vt60-samsung-pn60f8500-pioneer-pro-141fd/

Lots of flawed opinions about David Abrams in here as well concerning his calibration acumen: http://www.avsforum.com/t/712929/customer-reports-about-their-professional-calibrations
post #29200 of 30261
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Who's saying that? The most anyone has said is that the Kuro has met its match. "What we have here is a failure to communicate."
My opinion is proven flawed? Really? In your mind perhaps.

Scott Wilkinson's opinion is reflective of mine, so I guess his is, too: www.avsforum.com/t/1482090/informal-comparison-panasonic-tc-p65zt60-tc-p65vt60-samsung-pn60f8500-pioneer-pro-141fd/

Lots of flawed opinions about David Abrams in here as well concerning his calibration acumen: http://www.avsforum.com/t/712929/customer-reports-about-their-professional-calibrations

Yawn, for the record I've already commented on the review about it being limited and not a true representation.
post #29201 of 30261
Again, for bright environments where calibrating above 35 fTL is necessary, I don't disagree with you.
post #29202 of 30261
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Hitman- View Post

YOTR I completely agree that there's not a night and day difference and the PQ is not far away, my point was the kuro has not been bettered as some like to think so.


I agree. I still think the Kuro edges everything out. I do think that Panasonic has finally come really close which is good in the end. The Kuro was a one of a kind display. It's hard to believe that a 4 year old tv still hasn't been beat. Yes it's close but even I would give the Kuro a slight edge. It's splitting hairs though to me because they are very close.
post #29203 of 30261
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

^The ZT is the first plasma I've had outside of the Kuro line also (owned two 5020FDs and a 111FD). It's easy to say from a distance that X easily crushes Y based on measurements, but seeing them in your own viewing environment is believing.

From my experience at BB, both the VT/ZT look like worthy replacements for the Kuro. Obviously if you have a Kuro, there probably isn't a reason to change now. Unless you want a bigger size or have an issue with it (ie red tint). To me before the VT60/ZT60 series, I always felt like I was truly settling by a good margin. With the VT/ZT, I feel like it is close enough to a Kuro. Again close enough to me that it's not worth crunching numbers. Again just my opinion.
post #29204 of 30261
Sorry,

Stinks of new panel bought justification.

I will repeat something i saw weeks ago - a Kuro first gen 9G is light years ahead of anything Panasonic consumer range plasmas have ever brought out.

Except a similar MLL. I fail to see what they have even matched - nevermind bettered.

Cheap is as what cheap does.
post #29205 of 30261
And you just bought a 500M, so a similar accusation can be flung with the rose-tinted glasses that you use to describe it.

It is in no way accurate to call it light years ahead, Panasonic acquired many of the same engineers that built the Kuro, and we are not in 2011 or even 2012 anymore as far as performance is concerned. Also, if you don't think the higher refresh rate (which makes 3D possible) provides benefits for 2D PQ, then you are just being dishonest.

Basically, you're labeling me and the likes of Scott Wilkinson dumb, blind, or worse, liars.
post #29206 of 30261
Can we bring the debate to another thread, and not pollute this one? This is an Kuro owners thread, not a Kuro vs Panasonic thread.
post #29207 of 30261
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsskid View Post

Can we bring the debate to another thread, and not pollute this one? This is an Kuro owners thread, not a Kuro vs Panasonic thread.

+1000!
post #29208 of 30261
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

And you just bought a 500M, so a similar accusation can be flung with the rose-tinted glasses that you use to describe it.

It is in no way accurate to call it light years ahead, Panasonic acquired many of the same engineers that built the Kuro, and we are not in 2011 or even 2012 anymore as far as as performance is concerned. Also, if you don't think the higher refresh rate (which makes 3D possible) provides benefits for 2D PQ, then you are just being dishonest.

Basically, you're labeling me and the likes of Scott Wilkinson dumb, blind, or worse, liars.

WTF

Vinnie seriously - get a grip.

So what are you saying then...

Are you calling D-Nice, Kevin Miller and Co liars.

And by the way - the stupid refresh rates mean nothing - you have been reading too many magazines.

Since when on earth has the 2D performance of the Kuro been bettered because of (the video like filmic performance of Panasonic consumer plasmas). Motion and details is better on the Kuro.

But anyway have a read of Display Myths Shattered... It was made for and written for gullible, delusional consumers like you.

The only thing I wish is these guys would be the last word in TV and Monitor reviews. But sadly the big hyped companies would use all their financial might to make it not happen.

But things would be so different - that's for sure. Written by Dr Raymond Soneira... I wish he would write an updated 2013 version.

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/display_myths_shattered
Edited by Stu03 - 8/20/13 at 12:33am
post #29209 of 30261
Delusion and gullible, that's classy. One benefit of faster refresh rates is diminished phosphor lag, fact. I'm done "conversating" with you and utilizing the block feature before I say something I regret.
post #29210 of 30261
Really. People are either susceptible to phosphor lag - or not.

Refresh rates make not a blind bit of difference in that regard.

Good... Take the Panasonic fanboy delusions somewhere else at the same time as using the block feature.
post #29211 of 30261
Anyway.

Back on topic (hopefully) wink.gif

Has anyone watched any of these new super duper mastered in 4K blu-ray's on their Kuro's yet ?

I'm looking forward to viewing some smile.gif
post #29212 of 30261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

Anyway.

Back on topic (hopefully) wink.gif

Has anyone watched any of these new super duper mastered in 4K blu-ray's on their Kuro's yet ?

I'm looking forward to viewing some smile.gif

Yep, I've got Ghostbusters and Total recall (2012) and I can tell you there much better than the original releases as..

Very clean transfer/less to no grain (original Ghostbusters was very grainy)
Much more detailed and crisp
Colours are more vivid and huge image pop

It was the detail and vivid colour that struck me the most and are an excellent improvement, highly recommended here! wink.gif
post #29213 of 30261
Is this not a KURO thread????

Anyway....
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Hitman- View Post

Yep, I've got Ghostbusters and Total recall (2012) and I can tell you there much better than the original releases as..

Very clean transfer/less to no grain (original Ghostbusters was very grainy)
Much more detailed and crisp
Colours are more vivid and huge image pop

It was the detail and vivid colour that struck me the most and are an excellent improvement, highly recommended here! wink.gif

I was thinking of getting the new 4K Ghostbusters. I have the original release and like the way it looks. Very film like and textured. Especially on the kuro.
post #29214 of 30261
^ Recently got the 4K version, it will be a revelation to you on a calibrated Kuro! Compared to previous versions. Easily worth the small $$, it truly looks like a film, in the ways film looked like back then. Not perfect though, but still very very good. "Glory" 4K is also recommended, I haven't tried the Spidermans yet.
post #29215 of 30261
Question I have for all of you fellow Kuro owners is......How long can you hold out for OLED, or 4K OLED specifically......especially in the 60" and 65" sizes? I think a lot of people are underestimating the time for OLED coming in at reasonable ($3-5K)prices for 60-65" sets. I think we are talking 4-5yrs at best. I really think that companies will truly hold up mass production of OLED until they can get the 4K OLED sets out there. It will be a very tough sell to have your OLED sets more expensive than your 4K LED sets, since the public will choose 4K LED every time.

Do you think you Kuro's will hold up that long and if not what will you buy in the interim?
post #29216 of 30261
Right now, I am looking to keep my 141 for at least another 3 years and then spring for a 70 inch OLED should they exist. However, they will need to be proven in the filed with no burn on, no premature wearing of the blue phosphor, etc. OH, and they have to be flat and wall mountable. Should the 141 go on the fritz, I will spring for the 65" ZT or VT. With the blacks lowered on my 141 and the red tint gone, the 141 still looks superb and every bit as good, if not better, than anything out there. But, I could still be very happy with a ZT or VT.
post #29217 of 30261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixdoctor View Post

Question I have for all of you fellow Kuro owners is......How long can you hold out for OLED, or 4K OLED specifically......especially in the 60" and 65" sizes? I think a lot of people are underestimating the time for OLED coming in at reasonable ($3-5K)prices for 60-65" sets. I think we are talking 4-5yrs at best. I really think that companies will truly hold up mass production of OLED until they can get the 4K OLED sets out there. It will be a very tough sell to have your OLED sets more expensive than your 4K LED sets, since the public will choose 4K LED every time.

Do you think you Kuro's will hold up that long and if not what will you buy in the interim?

Having a Krp 500m and now a 101fd, the only thing I sometimes wish for is a 60inch. The black level on the 101fd imo is well past good enough. Every time I fire up a bluray I think to myself, why in the hell would I want to try and replace this! If I had any other 50 inch plasma I would have already purchased a 60 inch this year. My BB has an insane deal on a elite 60xf5fd in excellent shape and I gave it serious consideration, but I can't bring myself to do it. I do think these current plasmas are getting to the point of diminishing returns. This is a great year for plasma and every time I go to BB I am really impressed by the ZT60. I think I would be content with a 60 inch VT,ZT, or 8500. Bottom line is I can wait a while for Oled to come down in price!
post #29218 of 30261
I'll hold out as long as it takes for something better than I have now, OLED will also have to be well settled into the market and problem free before an upgrade.

I think the Kuro will last till then, their built pretty well and don't think anything serious will crop up before then, however 2014/5 may bring a surprise.
post #29219 of 30261
I don't think OLED price would be an issue 2 years from now since they're already seeing significant price drops (IIRC 55" Samsung OLED is at <$9000 now), however I'm far more concerned about how they reliable they are, it took a very long time for Plasmas to be the excellent displays they are today but it could take even longer to eliminate OLED issues.
post #29220 of 30261
Long term reliability for OLED plus price will be the reall issues.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Plasma Flat Panel Displays
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Plasma Flat Panel Displays › The Official Pioneer 9G Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread