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The Official Pioneer 9G Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 204

post #6091 of 30259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank J Manrique View Post

And the sound parameters can't be adjusted either! Not that I use this mode but it should have been made far more flexible than it is...just in case...

-THTS

Frank, I think you can defeat the auto sound. I remember having to go into the menu to turn it on. I to like the Optimum mode because of it's added vibrancy but I find it a little too bright and seem to always come back to the pure mode. I am hoping when I get my display calibrated with the isf a/v modes I will pick up a little more brightness along with the accuracy of the pure a/v mode. From what I have been reading on this forum from those who have had this done this might be a reasonable expectation.
Thanks,
Mike
post #6092 of 30259
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

This has actually been discussed around here before. It runs at least through the end of October (probably longer), it's $1000 off the 111, and yes, Magnolia is offering this pricing. (My guess is that pretty much any dealer is, since it comes from Pioneer.)

Not all dealers only the ones that are part of the special promotion, and yes I brought it up a while ago
post #6093 of 30259
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

Man!

Tonight is the Night!!!

This is One of the big reasons I love having my 151.

Tonight what I consider to be the best television show in history starts its season.
I can't imagine how great it will look on the 9G elite!

At first I thought you were talking about Californication It starts tonight on Showtime
post #6094 of 30259
Quote:
Originally Posted by mt14942 View Post

Sourcery, I also had a Mits. 65831 and I remember you from that forum. Heck I think I even used some of your video setting suggestions. I think you are going to be delighted with the P/Q in comparison to the Mitsubishi, atleast I was. The biggest difference to me was in the blacks the Mits. looked washed out in comparison.
Mike

Hope you benefitted from my suggested settings.

Kuro blacks are clearly superior compared to a 65831--even when the DLP's light engine is working properly. When it's not, it's borderline blasphemous to even mention both TVs in the same discussion!
post #6095 of 30259
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

No danger at all. You can watch it in whatever mode looks best to you. You're not the first person that found Pure Mode with the ref settings kind of dull. I need to juice both the color and the contrast a bit for TV signals or it just looks too drab.

After some more viewing, I'm finding I prefer Standard mode for TV programs and Pure mode with D-Nice's settings for DVD and BD movies.

I tried Optimum mode during a football game yesterday and found that some shots looked pretty good (mostly closeups) and other shots looked terrible (mostly wide shots). Sometimes colors looked flourescent. Standard mode seemed better for a little extra pop without glowing colors.

I suspect the reason for my preferences has to do with the quality of the different sources. Our standard analog cable signal is somewhat muted and lower quality to begin with while DVD and BD are much more accurate.

Glad to know I can use different options without worry.

Thanks.
post #6096 of 30259
Has anyone compared the OTA digital tuner in the 151 to an external tuner?

I currently have an external OTA digital tuner (Samsung DTB-H260F) connected to my 151 via component and it looks great. The only downside is having an additional component to operate.

It would be more convenient to have both my analog cable and OTA antenna hooked up to the 151's RF input using a spitter, but I'm concerned that adding another splitter may degrade the signal.

I would appreciate hearing any experience anyone has here concerning the tuner.
post #6097 of 30259
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourcery View Post

Hope you benefitted from my suggested settings.

Kuro blacks are clearly superior compared to a 65831--even when the DLP's light engine is working properly. When it's not, it's borderline blasphemous to even mention both TVs in the same discussion!

I actually did prefer your settings with one exception I used the Bright picture mode as opposed to the Natural. I was wondering if possibly I experienced a similar problem with the light engine working properly as you did? After about 17 months the picture seemed to lose some of its brightness which made the picture look more washed out and obviously affected the blacks. Maybe the bulb was just starting to wear out and needed to be replaced? I am going to be selling the 65831 to a co-worker and was wondering if I should replace the bulb as I did purchase the extended warranty that included one bulb replacement.
Thanks,
Mike
post #6098 of 30259
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROMAN O View Post

At first I thought you were talking about Californication It starts tonight on Showtime

yep.
Californication is pretty good.

I am a dexter junkie though. You gotta admit, Finding a show where you actually root for a blood hungry mass murdering serial killer is pretty rare. lol.

Tonight the 151 will be in all its glory.
post #6099 of 30259
Quote:
Originally Posted by mt14942 View Post

Maybe the bulb was just starting to wear out and needed to be replaced? I am going to be selling the 65831 to a co-worker and was wondering if I should replace the bulb as I did purchase the extended warranty that included one bulb replacement.
Thanks,
Mike

My bulb was replaced last January, at the same time the last light engine was installed. I thought the improvement was noticeably better afterwards, compared to the previous replacement lignt engines. Not a scientifically valid way to draw a conclusion, but it is consistent with the idea that a new bulb would be helpful.
post #6100 of 30259
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourcery View Post

My bulb was replaced last January, at the same time the last light engine was installed. I thought the improvement was noticeably better afterwards, compared to the previous replacement lignt engines. Not a scientifically valid way to draw a conclusion, but it is consistent with the idea that a new bulb would be helpful.

Thanks Sourcery, I want this to look as good as possible for my friend/co-worker.
Mike
post #6101 of 30259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

Has anyone compared the OTA digital tuner in the 151 to an external tuner?

I currently have an external OTA digital tuner (Samsung DTB-H260F) connected to my 151 via component and it looks great. The only downside is having an additional component to operate.

It would be more convenient to have both my analog cable and OTA antenna hooked up to the 151's RF input using a spitter, but I'm concerned that adding another splitter may degrade the signal.

I would appreciate hearing any experience anyone has here concerning the tuner.

As soon as I take delivery of a TV stand (and a Sony Blu Ray player too) for the 151FD display that was ordered last week, I'll try the Samsung SIR-T165 HD receiver; will comment about its OTA performance vs. an OTA antenna connection, which I haven't tried yet either...

-THTS
post #6102 of 30259
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourcery View Post

Kuro blacks are clearly superior compared to a 65831--even when the DLP's light engine is working properly.

No display device using a light source (bulb) for its "light engine" will EVER produce deep, inky blacks the way are produced by displays such as CRTs and plasmas...nor film projection either, but then never have felt reproduction of blacks to be wanting in anyway in this moving images format..

-THTS
post #6103 of 30259
Quote:
Originally Posted by mt14942 View Post

Frank, I think you can defeat the auto sound. I remember having to go into the menu to turn it on. I to like the Optimum mode because of it's added vibrancy but I find it a little too bright and seem to always come back to the pure mode. I am hoping when I get my display calibrated with the isf a/v modes I will pick up a little more brightness along with the accuracy of the pure a/v mode. From what I have been reading on this forum from those who have had this done this might be a reasonable expectation. Thanks, Mike

Thanks, Mike...I'll give it a try...

-THTS
post #6104 of 30259
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourcery View Post

Kuro blacks are clearly superior compared to...

...which brings to mind...and am just wondering here: how black are the blacks produced by the "rebadged" JVC Pioneer KURO D-ILA front projector?...

-THTS
post #6105 of 30259
Ok guys. I got my 151. I used the pre-burnin settngs ran the dvd for 160 hours. changed the setting to the post-burn one for pure and movies. I plugged in my Samsung pd1400 in hdmi 4. I put in Spiderman 3 and 1st the movie played in letterbox which was a surprise, 2nd the picture is marginally better than my PRO-730HD. What gives? I think I am running on pure. I was expecting the crispness I saw on a Samsung LN46a750 but it wasn't close.
post #6106 of 30259
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmarch7884 View Post

Ok guys. I got my 151. I used the pre-burnin settngs ran the dvd for 160 hours. changed the setting to the post-burn one for pure and movies. I plugged in my Samsung pd1400 in hdmi 4. I put in Spiderman 3 and 1st the movie played in letterbox which was a surprise, 2nd the picture is marginally better than my PRO-730HD. What gives? I think I am running on pure. I was expecting the crispness I saw on a Samsung LN46a750 but it wasn't close.

Sounds like you like artificial edge enhancement. try turning on the DRE and the sharpness up more... Maybe switch to colorspace 1 and switch the AV selection to something like performance.
post #6107 of 30259
I am using a tweaked Pure mode to watch my 111 with. My living room is not bright, and my eyes are sensitive, so brighter isn't better for me at this point. In fact, Pure is plenty bright in my room.

I'm not using the break-in disc, just regular TV watching. I've only 37 hours on the TV as I type, and though I'm keeping a general eye on how much time I log, I'm not going to obsess over the 150 threshold. The strong contrast ratio of the Kuro makes it seem brighter than it is, even though subjective brightness seems at about the same level as the XBR tube it's replacing. I'm hoping my tired eyes and mild headache are the result of too much computer time and not the TV. An anti-glare screen should take care of the computer issue.
post #6108 of 30259
I wonder if there's some adjustment that the eyes/brain need to go through when first owning a fixed pixel display. I also noticed some eyestrain when I first started using my 151 after having a rp-crt for several years. I thought it was brightness at first, but then I wasn't too sure about that. The strain resolved after several days.
post #6109 of 30259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanaticalism View Post

Originally Posted by prepress
What are people using to clean the bezel? I have speakers with piano black-trim (Mirages), and the trim responds well to standard glass cleaner (the Windex-like stuff, used with a soft cloth) and wonder if the 111's bezel will benefit also. I will NOT use the stuff on the screen, of course. And it does clean plastic. Any suggestions beyond the manual.................

I would also like to know. There are some smudges/fingerprints on the bezel from when we moved/setup the set.

Thats pretty gutsy, as I would never use any abrasive cleaner on anything with a lacquered type finish.

Personally, I treat the bezel in the same manner that I treat the screen, with a microfiber cloth, and a little water.

Go to www.photodon.com, and check out their #360 and #370 microfiber cloths. The 360 is great for the bezel and stand, just for removing dust. The 370 is a bit more suede-like, and used in a circular motion, it can get rid of smudges, etc., without using any cleaning fluid at all. If the smudges are bad, maybe dampening one of the cloths would help. I also use the 360 directly on the screen, again for removing dust, wiping very lightly. These cloths are magnetic, and really do pull the dust off. They're great.
post #6110 of 30259
Well, I did it, again! Since last month the 6020 from the big river was delivered with 3 cracks (and I refused), I ended up just now reordered another 6020 from the sponsor (top of this thread) for very decent price.

My only concerns now are geting a "good" one: no unbearable buzzing sound, dead/stuck pixel, etc., and most importantly I can live without the adjustments in the Elite model...

I just couldn't justify more than another $1k for the 151...hope I made the right decision after reading your postings.
post #6111 of 30259
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmarch7884 View Post

Ok guys. I got my 151. I used the pre-burnin settngs ran the dvd for 160 hours. changed the setting to the post-burn one for pure and movies. I plugged in my Samsung pd1400 in hdmi 4. I put in Spiderman 3 and 1st the movie played in letterbox which was a surprise, 2nd the picture is marginally better than my PRO-730HD. What gives? I think I am running on pure. I was expecting the crispness I saw on a Samsung LN46a750 but it wasn't close.

I use Performance and it looks great to me. Give it a try on HD channels. Also, I use hdmi 1.3a cable out from my AVR
post #6112 of 30259
HoneyWell,

I know that Performance looks great but I would really recommend against it. It give you very bright pictures and "POP" but it is also what we call "torch" mode.

In reality, it is a mode used to sell T.V.s in stores but does not give you a very color accurate image. Right out of the box, it may also make your panel a bit more susceptible to Image Retention.

I know that the "pop" and brightness of LCD panels and Performance mode on your Kuro is sexier but in reality that is not the experience you are truly getting in a movie theater. The next time you go to watch a movie, pay attention to when the film just starts. You will notice that is actually quite . . . dim. Of course since you are sitting in a completely blackened cinema, your eyes willl quickly adjust.

Pure mode or a properly calibrated panel will give you a picture that may not be as bright as you like but IT IS extremely movie and color accurate. Watch it in your room at night and you will see a lot more detail and contrast.

Conversely, if you really want to see a brighter image, give some thought to having it ISFccc calibrated by one of many excellent professionals on these boards. It can give you close to the brightness of Performance mode with MUCH improved color accuracy and shadow detail.

Of course at the end of the day, it is your panel and up to your how you want to watch it but I thought I would just give you some of my perspective since I went through what you experienced only a short time ago.

Believe it or not, our eyes actually do need to "learn" how to appreciate a TRUE accurate picture. It is unfortunate that the overly bright, edge enhanced picture so prevalent to LCDs is now considered the defacto gold standard when in reality that can't be farther from the truth.

Take care

Dennis
post #6113 of 30259
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfchang View Post

HoneyWell,

I know that Performance looks great but I would really recommend against it. It give you very bright pictures and "POP" but it is also what we call "torch" mode.

In reality, it is a mode used to sell T.V.s in stores but does not give you a very color accurate image. Right out of the box, it may also make your panel a bit more susceptible to Image Retention.

I know that the "pop" and brightness of LCD panels and Performance mode on your Kuro is sexier but in reality that is not the experience you are truly getting in a movie theater. The next time you go to watch a movie, pay attention to when the film just starts. You will notice that is actually quite . . . dim. Of course since you are sitting in a completely blackened cinema, your eyes willl quickly adjust.

Pure mode or a properly calibrated panel will give you a picture that may not be as bright as you like but IT IS extremely movie and color accurate. Watch it in your room at night and you will see a lot more detail and contrast.

Conversely, if you really want to see a brighter image, give some thought to having it ISFccc calibrated by one of many excellent professionals on these boards. It can give you close to the brightness of Performance mode with MUCH improved color accuracy and shadow detail.

Of course at the end of the day, it is your panel and up to your how you want to watch it but I thought I would just give you some of my perspective since I went through what you experienced only a short time ago.

Believe it or not, our eyes actually do need to "learn" how to appreciate a TRUE accurate picture. It is unfortunate that the overly bright, edge enhanced picture so prevalent to LCDs is now considered the defacto gold standard when in reality that can't be farther from the truth.

Take care

Dennis

Dennis,

Your point and suggestion are well taken. Actually, D-Nice is going to be calibrating my panel whenever he comes to Florida at the end of the year. My current Pure mode setting are a bit dull to my taste but I can't wait to have the ISFccc memories plus Pure mode calibrated by DNice.

Anybody in Central Florida willing to sign up for D-Nice calibrating services?

Cheers,
EPrado
post #6114 of 30259
Quote:
Originally Posted by mt14942 View Post

Sourcery, I also had a Mits. 65831 and I remember you from that forum. Heck I think I even used some of your video setting suggestions. I think you are going to be delighted with the P/Q in comparison to the Mitsubishi, atleast I was. The biggest difference to me was in the blacks the Mits. looked washed out in comparison.
Mike

I have the 65831 and a Kuro. Yes, the Kuro is better but the Mits is still a nice set and works better in a big room with a wall of windows nearby where seating is 13' away. I've had no trouble with either one.
post #6115 of 30259
Honeywell,

As a point of reference I would also heavily suggest having DNice calibrate your Pure mode in addition to his regular ISF Day, Night, and Auto activations.

Remember that a BRIGHTER picture can still be color accurate with great contrast and shadow detail but still not be MOVIE THEATER accurate.

It is all about what "experience" you are going for. Have Dnice give you a great calibrated "pure" mode so you at least have the option for that experience.

You may watch the ISFccc Night mode 95% of the time but I still think that Pure is the way to go for a night at the movies and if Dnice can give you that, there is no reason in my opinion to not utilize it.

Dennis
post #6116 of 30259
The day before Jeff's arrival, I emailed him to let him know I would home all day on Friday. On Friday, I received a call from him telling me he was only an hour away and asked if it was ok to get started early. I immediately could tell that this was going to be a fun calibration. An hour later, he arrived two hours ahead of the original set appointment. Once he brought his equipment in, I was excited to share with him some of the lighting in my house. I have some special bulbs that burn close to 6500k. I turned on the lights and a smile came to Jeff's face, he then broke out his grey card to judge for himself how close my bulbs shine at 6500k. He stated that the ones in the kitchen were a little blue, so I showed him another set that I figured were closer to 6500k. He immediately stated that the other ones looked to be more "neutral". I knew that they would be because I hardly turn those particular ones on.

Then a discussion broke out about the new receiver I was looking to buy. Based on the brand receiver I was talking about, Jeff went to measure the ohm reading on my speakers to make sure I would not run into any problems using ICE amps with my current speakers. Turned out, I'm going to be just fine with the new receiver when I get it.

Immediately after that, Jeff went to work on my 151fd. During the calibration, I received an education of the technical and art aspect of calibration. While in the ISFccc "menu" he set up a "night" and a "day" setting for each of my HDMI inputs. Shortly after that, he popped in one of his DVDs to visually see how it all looked. Jeff kept mentioning that it all looked correct...(something I was really excited to hear) and I was amazed at the difference in color. Personally I did not think I would see that much of a difference, however once the display was set for a true (or as close as it can be to 6500k) gray scale (I hope I described that correctly) I could easily see how the colors made much more sense to me and the realism of the colors alone gave what I thought was about a 30% improvement. I'm not sure if the brightness level was changed or not, but I'm pretty sure that the contrast was set higher. Either way...or somehow, even though the contrast is higher, overall image appears to be slightly darker and with some Blu-rays, black levels are really really low...however I can usually see detail in those very very dark areas (usually, but not all the time) and the movies themselves in certain scenes probably looked that way at the theater. At the same time, there is more color saturation than what I was seeing with D-Nice's settings.

One thing I forgot to mention to Jeff is I also thought that the overall image produced less "noise". The "signal" looked even cleaner than what I was looking at before the calibration. I don't know if it has to do with the ISFccc mode settings having less "processing" than "Pure" mode???...or if it's as simple as darker images (less power going to the glass) is easier for the display to process? What ever it is, the image looks to be super clean.

Better Blacks, Contrast and Color all working together producing startling images. Because of this, some HD material from the Satellite looks to be very real to me now. I look at the screen, and it looks like I'm looking at the actual scene. Also, just like different TV channels, black levels very from Blu-ray to Blu-ray. This is not ground breaking news...however as we all know, some movies clearly have their black levels too high where there's very little in the way of Inky blacks, others seem to be about right and some Blu-rays have dark scenes that seem way too dark to the point I can't see any detail in the blacks. I don't think it's a problem with the calibration, as it has everything to do with the way the movie was transferred or on high end transfers, it's the way the director wanted it to look. Overall, I'm really happy with the way my 151fd now looks.

Jeff brought some of his own Blu-rays. One having a tier 0 rating of HD sourced nature video. I was blown away with some of the imagery. He then stuck in Cars (another tier 0 rated Blu-ray) a title I also own (and had not been too happy with) and was finally impressed with how it now looks on my 151fd. At this point I was getting excited and "had" to throw in a few of my own Blu-rays. "Rambo Part 2", "The Road Warrior" "The Warriors" "Blade Runner" and "Tears of the Sun". Jeff was taken by surprise as he did not know "The Road Warrior" or "Blade Runner" was on Blu-ray. "Blade Runner" being one of his favorite films was interested to see how it looked on the now calibrated 151fd. He was astounded! He never saw "Blade Runner" look so good in his life. Well, me neither, and like Jeff, I also saw the movie when it first came out AND I recently saw the latest "release" at a digital cinema. Jeff could not take his eyes off my screen when I popped in "Tears of the Sun" and when I had "The Warriors", (a movie Jeff had never heard about) he again was floored at the level of quality and the way this 1979 movie presentation looked. He kept talking about how hard it is for video equipment to correctly display colors correctly at very low levels. "The Warriors" takes place mostly at night while they fight other gang members all the way back to their home turf Coney Island. This movie provides many opportunities to showcase colors that are dimly lit. Understanding what Jeff was explaining to me, I was impressed that Jeff was impressed! Jeff even took the time to set up my Laserdisc player.

I was happy to learn I was not too far off with my audio adjustments, (Except for the bass.) and at the same time, a few simple adjustments would probably make a big difference. My right rear speaker was one decibel too high, my sub was five decibels too high and I could use a one decibel increase in the treble region. There are also some peaks and valleys in the bass region that need to be smoothed out...however with no tone controls on my pre-amp or any kind of equalizer, there was not much we could do. I am however going to get a new receiver (about Feb 09) where I would be able to take control of those issues. And I could use a different type of connection for my sub, that would also improve the performance of my main speakers (as they won't have to handle as much bass input).

We started at 3:00pm and finished at about 11:15pm. After he was done, I asked Jeff if I could treat him to dinner. He thought that was great, but was concerned at anything being open that late. There was a place I had in mind called "Uncle Sams" that closes at midnight so we still had time! It was great learning about Jeff's career, experience and education he brings that enables him to help us the way he does. He's a real pro and knows what he's talking about and I look forward to having him out again when I'm ready to have some audio work done. I think it was the next morning he flew out of town.

The next day there was a copy of the newly released "Speed Racer" on Blu-ray sitting in my mailbox. Knowing how Jeff is astounded by Pioneer's ability to reproduce colors, I felt that he would be really missing out if he does not take the time to at least rent "Speed Racer"...and I knew this even BEFORE I popped it into my player. When it comes to bright colors, forget about "Cars" and forget about "Star Wars" "Speed Racer" is where you want to be at!
post #6117 of 30259
[quote=HoneyWell;14759454]Dennis,

Your point and suggestion are well taken. Actually, D-Nice is going to be calibrating my panel whenever he comes to Florida at the end of the year. My current Pure mode setting are a bit dull to my taste but I can't wait to have the ISFccc memories plus Pure mode calibrated by DNice.

Anybody in Central Florida willing to sign up for D-Nice calibrating services?

Cheers,
EPrado[/QUO

HoneyWell, I have had my 151 going on 5 weeks now and initially I also preferred the brighter more vibrant a/v modes like Optimum and Performance, but have come to prefer the Pure mode with D'Nice's latest reference settings. I am in South Florida and will also be having my set calibrated in the next couple of months.
Mike
post #6118 of 30259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackman View Post

I have the 65831 and a Kuro. Yes, the Kuro is better but the Mits is still a nice set and works better in a big room with a wall of windows nearby where seating is 13' away. I've had no trouble with either one.

I agree Trackman the Mits. 65831 has served me well the past few years in exactly the ambiance you described, however the Elite 151 has spoiled me and I could no longer be happy with it's picture.
Mike
post #6119 of 30259
Quote:
Originally Posted by mt14942 View Post

I agree Trackman the Mits. 65831 has served me well the past few years in exactly the ambiance you described, however the Elite 151 has spoiled me and I could no longer be happy with it's picture.
Mike

I do understand how having one superior set in the house can tend to make one less pleased with the other. Still, I find that I can often appreciate a great picture on the Mits by mentally focusing on it alone rather than dwelling on what the Kuro can do. For one thing, the extra size of the Mits is invaluable, as is the matte screen. I plan on keeping both for years to come!
post #6120 of 30259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebarnman View Post

Immediately after that, Jeff went to work on my 151fd. During the calibration, I received an education of the technical and art aspect of calibration. While in the ISFccc "menu" he set up a "night" and a "day" setting for each of my HDMI inputs. Shortly after that, he popped in one of his DVDs to visually see how it all looked. Jeff kept mentioning that it all looked correct...(something I was really excited to hear) and I was amazed at the difference in color. Personally I did not think I would see that much of a difference, however once the display was set for a true (or as close as it can be to 6500k) gray scale (I hope I described that correctly) I could easily see how the colors made much more sense to me and the realism of the colors alone gave what I thought was about a 30% improvement.

Thanks for the report..
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