AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Plasma Flat Panel Displays › The Official Pioneer 9G Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The Official Pioneer 9G Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 241

post #7201 of 28701
10/27/08 at 1:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Boden View Post

I have just purchased a Pro111FD, which replaced an old Pioneer 503CMX. Man, what a difference 7 years makes! Finding the right words to describe the PQ difference is difficult, so I'll simply say OMG!!

Now that I've got that off my chest, I do have a problem with the Pro111 which may have been discussed somewhere. Because this thread is understandably so long, I've taken a quick run through, but didn't notice anything.

I have a Monster Power AVS2000 voltage stabilizer, which I've been using for a few years, including with my old 503CMX. When I plugged the Pro111 in, the 2000 started humming, with an on and off cycle of about 5 seconds between hums. When I power the Pro111 off, the hum disappears. I tried plugging the Pro111 into the wall instead, and the 2000 stills hums even though the plasma isn't running through it. This is pretty strange and I was wondering if anyone here knows of any power issues with the Pro111.

I live in a condo where the voltage is all over the map. It maxes out around 116 and usually runs closer to 113, which is why I bought the voltage stabilizer in the first place. I also use a Monster Power HTS-5100 power conditioner which I normally plug into the back of the voltage stabilizer. For now, I'm living with the lower voltage and have the Pro111 plugged into the HTS-5100.

I have spoken with my dealer, which is looking into the problem, and I also got a phone number for someone at Pioneer Canada, so will be calling them.

TIA for any experiences or advice with this.

Jim Boden

For what it's worth, I have Tripplite equipment rather than Monster, but was told (by Tripplite, in fact) that it's best to plug the voltage regulation device into the non-regulating conditioner, not the other way around. I have a LCR 2400 (voltage regulator) plugged into a HT1210ISO (surge protector/conditioner) and can report no buzz or noise of any kind with my PRO-111, which is plugged into the LCR as is all my stereo equipment.

Also, when the 111 was plugged into the wall was it on the same circuit as the Monster devices? Could there be some sort of grounding issues, a ground loop maybe? What else is plugged into the AVS2000? I'm not an expert, but thought I'd offer what ideas I had.
Reply
Reply

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #7202 of 28701
10/27/08 at 1:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCJ View Post

I had Eliab over last week to calibrate my 151.

Thanks for your calibration report. I've included it in the flat panel (Post#2) list that's linked at the bottom of my post.

Enjoy.
Reply
Reply
post #7203 of 28701
10/27/08 at 2:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PARASITE View Post

Jeff came and calibrated my 151 yesterday and as usual left me laughing like a little schoolgirl.

Thanks for your calibration report. I'm assuming that Jeff (UMR) didn't work on your audio because he had done the work on a previous visit. Let me know if I'm wrong.

I've included your report in the flat panel (Post#2) list that's linked at the bottom of my post.

Reply
Reply
post #7204 of 28701
10/27/08 at 2:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

I haven't tried the DVDO specifically, but I have never seen any processing that can significantly improve the picture from a bad signal. If your are considering this, I would buy the 111 first and try it for awhile with your existing TV provider. If the picture quality just isn't satisfactory to you, then you could look into an alternate provider or processing options.

I beg to differ on this. Best example is what can the latest Oppo DVD Player can do standard definition DVDs. Pioneers have very good internal processors, but if you can afford a dedicated scaler, you are bound to see some improvement. That said, I am not familiar with the capabilities of the specific brand you are considering.
Reply
Reply
post #7205 of 28701
10/27/08 at 2:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davewise View Post

It's not unique to your setup, I had to use the same delay (about 15 seconds). When I had it less than 10, it simply didn't work and with 10 seconds, I got the "starting up" message. I got it to work with 15, though I still need to see if 14 or 13.5 work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aetherhole View Post

From my experience, my 151 from power on, takes about 15-16 seconds before it will accept any commands. I forget exactly what I put my Harmony One delay to, but it was right around there.

Looks like I erred in generalizing about start up times for the Kuros. If you guys are consistently getting around 15 seconds, then that's obviously the appropriate timing for programming IR commands. I didn't consider that using serial control, which is what I do, would give a different start up time. Sorry for that.
Reply
Reply
post #7206 of 28701
10/27/08 at 2:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

I haven't tried the DVDO specifically, but I have never seen any processing that can significantly improve the picture from a bad signal. If your are considering this, I would buy the 111 first and try it for awhile with your existing TV provider. If the picture quality just isn't satisfactory to you, then you could look into an alternate provider or processing options.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hd_newbie View Post

I beg to differ on this. Best example is what can the latest Oppo DVD Player can do standard definition DVDs. Pioneers have very good internal processors, but if you can afford a dedicated scaler, you are bound to see some improvement. That said, I am not familiar with the capabilities of the specific brand you are considering.

If you re-read the original question and my post, we were talking about TV transmission signals. Nobody said anything about SD-DVDs.
Reply
Reply
post #7207 of 28701
10/27/08 at 2:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PARASITE View Post

Jeff came and calibrated my 151 yesterday and as usual left me laughing like a little schoolgirl. I was using the recent D-nice settings with pure, and tho it was better then default, it had some serious gray scale issues. Jeff confirmed this, measuring about 8% green. So much for raising the heck out of red and blue to eliminate green gray scale. I decided like many others to use the isf day, night modes for the extra light output since I have a pretty decent amount of ambient light in the daytime. We settled on isf day at 39ftl, and isf night at 31ftl. After Jeff calibrated all my imputs including pc, we settled down and took a look at the usual suspects. Charlotte Gray, Cars, and a new one Galapagos, which is easily the finest piece of hd I have ever layed my eyes on. Long story short, you can count me in on the users who prefer isf over pure. One thing I need to point out tho, It does not allow you to raise the light output over 40ftl without any side effects. When Jeff had the output at over 42ftl, he noticed the tv was losing the gray scale tracking at the very high ire. 39ftl was the ceiling for my panel that maintained tracking at the top. The image now is just stunning on everything we watch, showing more detail and better color I knew my 151 was capable of. Jeff as always thank you for coming over and doing your thing. Hanging out afterwards is always a pleasure, and I'm glad the resteraunt we chose was good this time. If anyone on here is wanting to get the beast unleased in their 9g I recommend using Jeff. He is using superior tools, and his eyes are amazing at spotting small details. I would go on about more things, but my son is home sick and I dont have alot of time. Jeff drive safely on your next couple of stops, and hope to see you again in november.

Interesting point about the light. I was wondering if 141 would do a better job with it.
Reply
Reply
post #7208 of 28701
10/27/08 at 3:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

If you re-read the original question and my post, we were talking about TV transmission signals. Nobody said anything about SD-DVDs.

yeah, i am talking about TV transmission signals too. Now, I have not seen it with my own eyes, but from what I hear there is room for improvement in every source with a high-end processor. Then again, I have not seen it with my own eyes.
Reply
Reply
post #7209 of 28701
10/27/08 at 4:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hd_newbie View Post

yeah, i am talking about TV transmission signals too. Now, I have not seen it with my own eyes, but from what I hear there is room for improvement in every source with a high-end processor. Then again, I have not seen it with my own eyes.

Oh, absolutely. They can be cleaned up somewhat, even just by the Kuro itself, but a crappy signal will never look "good." Garbage in, garbage out. I have found as well that external processing can occasionally add some of its own headaches with TV signals, such as slow response with resolution changes (which are very frequent with channel changes and commercials....) and audio sync issues.

I think, to address the original question again, it makes much more sense for the OP to choose whatever provider offers the best service in his area, and select the tuner option he wants. (He said he's starting from scratch and still needs to get service.) Then, using it with the new TV he's buying, determine whether the the service yields an acceptable picture quality for SDTV signals. It seems premature to recommend external processing to fix a problem when we don't even know it exists yet. (He may well find that he watches very little SDTV with his new service anyway, making all this moot...)
Reply
Reply
post #7210 of 28701
10/27/08 at 4:30pm
I apologize in advance for the post, so please don't hurt me

Just purchased the 60 inch monitor version of the Elite line and I was hoping there maybe a Vancouver (Canada, or maybe even just BC with some shipping involved) based 151 owner who has wall mounted and is not using their pedestal. I would love to take it off your hands for a reasonable price.

PM me please.

Now back to the regular thread. Sorry!
Reply
Reply
post #7211 of 28701
10/27/08 at 4:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hd_newbie View Post

Interesting point about the light. I was wondering if 141 would do a better job with it.

Yes Controlcal will bring the best out of your 141.
imo its the only way to go. And the nice part about ISF mode is that you are not locked out. All you need is Controlcal and a laptop, to get into ISF Night, Day.

And if you are going to have your 141 calibrated, then have your ISF guy calibrate ISF Night and Day, along with A/V Pure mode. Ans do not forget that when In Pure Mode the guy you have working on your display calibrate the different input resolutions.
Reply
Reply
post #7212 of 28701
10/27/08 at 5:04pm
[quote=PARASITE;14950265]Jeff came and calibrated my 151 yesterday and as usual left me laughing like a little schoolgirl. I was using the recent D-nice settings with pure, and tho it was better then default, it had some serious gray scale issues. Jeff confirmed this, measuring about 8% green. So much for raising the heck out of red and blue to eliminate green gray scale. I decided like many others to use the isf day, night modes
############################################################ ####################

So are you saying D-Nice settings in Pure Mode do not look as good as the settings in ISF mode?
Also when you say raise the heck out of blue and red, and have serious gray scale issues (8% green) how are you or jeff overcoming this if in fact it is a problem?
Reply
Reply
post #7213 of 28701
10/27/08 at 5:34pm
I am ready to buy some bias lighting for my 141. Those of you are using the Ideal-Lume products are you using the Standard or Panelight?

Appreciate the help!
Reply
Reply
post #7214 of 28701
10/27/08 at 6:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BreckW View Post

I'm about ready to pull the trigger on a PRO-111FD. Are there any owners out there who are currently using a DVDO Edge along with the 111?

I'm wondering about the Scaling/Deinterlacing capabilities of the 111 and whether a DVDO Edge would improve the Picture Quality of SD/HD content from Satellite, Cable and OTA providers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

I haven't tried the DVDO specifically, but I have never seen any processing that can significantly improve the picture from a bad signal. If your are considering this, I would buy the 111 first and try it for awhile with your existing TV provider. If the picture quality just isn't satisfactory to you, then you could look into an alternate provider or processing options.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hd_newbie View Post

I beg to differ on this. Best example is what can the latest Oppo DVD Player can do standard definition DVDs. Pioneers have very good internal processors, but if you can afford a dedicated scaler, you are bound to see some improvement. That said, I am not familiar with the capabilities of the specific brand you are considering.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BreckW View Post

Thanks for the info. I'm new to the whole HD arena so please indulge my somewhat uninformed questioning. The reason for my question is that I don't have a provider yet and am looking at purchasing all new equipment including TV, AVR, DVR, BD Player and content provider.

I've been following the Sony XBR threads and there is discussion regarding the various processing engines (Bravia2, Bravia2Pro etc.) I don't see any similar discussion in the Elite thread and am wondering why? Does the 111FD have such good scaling, deinterlacing and noise reduction that it simply isn't an issue?

A more specific question may be: Given viewing habits including both SD and HD content, what kind of front end processing would be optimal for the 111FD assuming DishNetwork as the provider? Is the scaling/deinterlacing/noise reduction from the Dish Vip722 DVR along with the capabilities of the 111FD sufficient such that additional processing from an external processor or AVR is not necessary?

Any discussion of the video processing capabilities of the 111FD would be welcome.

My viewing habits will include SD (some B&W classics), HD, OTA, DVD and Blue Ray.

Since I'll be buying a new AVR & DVD Player along with the 111, I'm wondering if it's necessary to allocate any of my budget for Video Processing, either external or embeded within a new AVR or DVD player?

I guess I could start off with an AVR with no Video Processing, see how I like it, then trade up to an AVR with Processing (Faroujda??), see how I like it, then trade up to an external Video Processor. I'm hoping to avoid some of that pain if any Forum users have blazed that trail already.
Reply
Reply
post #7215 of 28701
10/27/08 at 6:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derelict77 View Post

I apologize in advance for the post, so please don't hurt me

Just purchased the 60 inch monitor version of the Elite line and I was hoping there maybe a Vancouver (Canada, or maybe even just BC with some shipping involved) based 151 owner who has wall mounted and is not using their pedestal. I would love to take it off your hands for a reasonable price.

PM me please.

Now back to the regular thread. Sorry!

I'm not so sure that the 151 pedestal works for the 141. Have you confirmed this? I say that because they are shaped differently, with the 141 being significantly thinner, and the 151 stand has upright bars that are inserted into "canals" that go up into the panel. Not being designed the same way, I'd be surprised if the 141 has these same openings for the stand.
Reply
Reply
post #7216 of 28701
10/27/08 at 6:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BreckW View Post

My viewing habits will include SD (some B&W classics), HD, OTA, DVD and Blue Ray.

Since I'll be buying a new AVR & DVD Player along with the 111, I'm wondering if it's necessary to allocate any of my budget for Video Processing, either external or embeded within a new AVR or DVD player?

I guess I could start off with an AVR with no Video Processing, see how I like it, then trade up to an AVR with Processing (Faroujda??), see how I like it, then trade up to an external Video Processor. I'm hoping to avoid some of that pain if any Forum users have blazed that trail already.

Most decent AVRs these says have at least basic video processing. What is your expected budget for the receiver?
Reply
Reply
post #7217 of 28701
10/27/08 at 7:43pm
[quote=sillysally;14953678]
Quote:
Originally Posted by PARASITE View Post

Jeff came and calibrated my 151 yesterday and as usual left me laughing like a little schoolgirl. I was using the recent D-nice settings with pure, and tho it was better then default, it had some serious gray scale issues. Jeff confirmed this, measuring about 8% green. So much for raising the heck out of red and blue to eliminate green gray scale. I decided like many others to use the isf day, night modes
############################################################ ####################

So are you saying D-Nice settings in Pure Mode do not look as good as the settings in ISF mode?
Also when you say raise the heck out of blue and red, and have serious gray scale issues (8% green) how are you or jeff overcoming this if in fact it is a problem?

I'm pretty sure Jeff changed green high. My grayscale is so good now, it looks like someone just made a line across from 10ire up.
Reply
Reply
post #7218 of 28701
10/27/08 at 8:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

I'm not so sure that the 151 pedestal works for the 141. Have you confirmed this? I say that because they are shaped differently, with the 141 being significantly thinner, and the 151 stand has upright bars that are inserted into "canals" that go up into the panel. Not being designed the same way, I'd be surprised if the 141 has these same openings for the stand.

They are practically the same exact stand prog. I have put both 151, and 141 stands together.
Reply
Reply
post #7219 of 28701
10/27/08 at 9:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanaticalism View Post

They are practically the same exact stand prog. I have put both 151, and 141 stands together.

Cool! Is it definitely confirmed that they are interchangeable then? (I know they look alike, but the different part numbers and prices made me suspicious.) If so, Derelict77 could hopefully find one for less than the $400 Pioneer charges for the 141 stand. Or for that matter, he could just order the 151 stand, which is about $260.
Reply
Reply
post #7220 of 28701
10/27/08 at 9:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PARASITE View Post


I'm pretty sure Jeff changed green high. My grayscale is so good now, it looks like someone just made a line across from 10ire up.


Did you have a calibration report from Jeff that you could post?

I also use ControlCAL ISFccc modes and find the picture better than Pure. I also really like the ability to choose a "night" and "day" contrast output with just a few clicks.
Reply
Reply
post #7221 of 28701
10/27/08 at 9:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Cool! Is it definitely confirmed that they are interchangeable then? (I know they look alike, but the different part numbers and prices made me suspicious.) If so, Derelict77 could hopefully find one for less than the $400 Pioneer charges for the 141 stand. Or for that matter, he could just order the 151 stand, which is about $260.

Yup. There have been many who have confirmed that the 151 can in fact be used on the 141.
Reply
Reply
post #7222 of 28701
10/27/08 at 9:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanaticalism View Post

Yup. There have been many who have confirmed that the 151 can in fact be used on the 141.

There you go, Derelict77. (Order the 151 stand if you can't find a taker....)
Reply
Reply
post #7223 of 28701
10/27/08 at 11:07pm
[quote=PARASITE;14954658]
Quote:
Originally Posted by PARASITE View Post


I'm pretty sure Jeff changed green high. My grayscale is so good now, it looks like someone just made a line across from 10ire up.



But could you see the green error with d-nice settings? Green high is not the correct way imo either.
Reply
Reply
post #7224 of 28701
10/27/08 at 11:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PARASITE View Post

I was using the recent D-nice settings with pure, and tho it was better then default, it had some serious gray scale issues. Jeff confirmed this, measuring about 8% green.

Ouch!...

-THTS
Reply
Reply
post #7225 of 28701
10/28/08 at 12:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PARASITE View Post


I'm pretty sure Jeff changed green high. My grayscale is so good now, it looks like someone just made a line across from 10ire up.

************************************************************ *************************

Yes I have been playing with Green High. So I would think if he changed green he changed GH to -1 and more than likely he changed GL to -1 . I just did this in my calibrations, using Controlcal and my 141. I am still not convinced that changing GH or GL is a better way to go but I am sure you will be happy with jeff's calibration .
Reply
Reply
post #7226 of 28701
10/28/08 at 5:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PARASITE View Post

I was using the recent D-nice settings with pure, and tho it was better then default, it had some serious gray scale issues. Jeff confirmed this, measuring about 8% green.


Ditto this. I was using D-Nice's settings on my 151FD August '08 HHPM build. I thought it looked respectable, but not perfect.

It was only when I got my Chroma5 meter + CalMAN software was I able to measure that I too had a "plus green" set.

Using ControlCAL, I activated ISFccc modes and corrected my plus gray problem. My grayscale is now fantastic. I ultimately ended up with:

Red H 0
Green H -1
Blue H +6
Red L -1
Green L 0
Blue L 0

The important thing to take away from all of this: if you have a 151FD, there is really no way to tell if you have a "plus green" grayscale set without measuring with a grayscale pattern and colorimeter. After you fix it, you can see how your gray patterns are less green than before, but this is not something you could accurately adjust just by eye.
Reply
Reply
post #7227 of 28701
10/28/08 at 5:11am
[quote=PARASITE;14954658]
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post


I'm pretty sure Jeff changed green high. My grayscale is so good now, it looks like someone just made a line across from 10ire up.

I did not change green high. I changed the other highs and lows.
Reply
Reply
post #7228 of 28701
10/28/08 at 7:52am
[quote=umr;14956083]
Quote:
Originally Posted by PARASITE View Post


I did not change green high. I changed the other highs and lows.

Sorry I stand corrected, I never got to watch what you changed and just made assumptions. The moral of the story its not green now, LOL!

Jeff, my wife has not stopped talking about how good the set looks now.
That is really saying something. My apologies in assuming you changed green high.
Reply
Reply
post #7229 of 28701
10/28/08 at 12:48pm
About to pull the trigger on the 141. Anyone know of any good AVS sponsors/pricing in the Delaware area? Any PM's would be greatly appreciated.
Reply
Reply
post #7230 of 28701
10/28/08 at 2:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BreckW View Post

My viewing habits will include SD (some B&W classics), HD, OTA, DVD and Blue Ray.

Since I'll be buying a new AVR & DVD Player along with the 111, I'm wondering if it's necessary to allocate any of my budget for Video Processing, either external or embeded within a new AVR or DVD player?

I guess I could start off with an AVR with no Video Processing, see how I like it, then trade up to an AVR with Processing (Faroujda??), see how I like it, then trade up to an external Video Processor. I'm hoping to avoid some of that pain if any Forum users have blazed that trail already.

video processing recommendation, as with anything else in life, will depend how much buck you have. if you have a big wallet go for Denon 5308ci. It has Realta in it, which is much better than Faroudja.

I can also agree with the "wait and see" suggestion. You can buy the TV first and then if you are not happy go for the scaler.
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Plasma Flat Panel Displays

Gear mentioned in this thread:

AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Plasma Flat Panel Displays › The Official Pioneer 9G Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread