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The Official PANASONIC PZ850u thread - All sizes (settings, feedback, etc...) - Page 14

post #391 of 1862
Are all the advanced settings for tweaking in the service menu or the user menu on this set? I ask because in another thread i read somewhere, that the set has tons of ISF calbration settings to mess with. great, but if its not in the user menu, and I have to go into the tech menu to access them, which i am ot willing to do, then it makes the set no different from another with stripped down user menus. I might as well get a kuro, spend the extra money on a calibration guy to come to my house and have a "superior" set.
post #392 of 1862
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiolover718 View Post

Are all the advanced settings for tweaking in the service menu or the user menu on this set? I ask because in another thread i read somewhere, that the set has tons of ISF calbration settings to mess with. great, but if its not in the user menu, and I have to go into the tech menu to access them, which i am ot willing to do, then it makes the set no different from another with stripped down user menus. I might as well get a kuro, spend the extra money on a calibration guy to come to my house and have a "superior" set.

I think you want the Kuro, so why agonize?

But if you want to prolong it why not download the user manual and see what is available in the user menus. And don't forget the additional items in the Pro menu--
  • Normal: Resets all Pro setting adjustments to factory default settings. (Set/No)
  • Panel brightness: Selects the display panel brightness.
  • (High: Vivid, Mid: Standard, Low: Studio ref)
  • Contour emphasis: Adjusts the contour emphasis of the image. (On/Off)
  • Gamma adjust: Gamma correction. Adjusts the intermediate brightness of the image. (Normal/Mid/Full 1/Full 2)
  • Black extension: Adjusts the dark shades of the image in gradation.
  • W/B high R: Adjusts the white balance for light red areas.
  • W/B high B: Adjusts the white balance for light blue areas.
  • W/B low R: Adjusts the white balance for dark red areas.
  • W/B low B: Adjusts the white balance for dark blue areas.
  • AGC: Increases the brightness of dark signal automatically. (On/Off)
post #393 of 1862
trek guy all things considered, If I can talk my wife into letting me get a Kuro, and I don't mind spending the extra money, wouldnt the best thing to do be to get teh kuro and have a tech calibrate it? Why should i care if he has to go intot the service vs. the user menu? Which ever set one buys, they should have it ISF calibrated regardless, but then would I simply be paying 1k for slightly better blacks?
post #394 of 1862
You need to see them both, side by side, in a dim room, like some Magnolia or upper end shops have. Then set them similarly - I.E. studio or cinema mode, and bring your own Blu Ray or DVD. I used the 'planet earth' and 'Pirates' disks.
You will see a blacks difference - the Pio being a small bit darker, but to me it was only noticeable on the black bars during fade outs or something else non program related. There was just a bit more detail in shadows with the Pio too. - But not even $2K worth of difference, or even $500. Color was different, but I saw neither as 'better' either, especially with the Pan being so tweak - able.
If it's really bugging you this much, drive 45 minutes or whatever and see for yourself. Then you will know your own answer - there is no 'right' here.
post #395 of 1862
Trying for the first time to show my theater room. Got my Panasonic 65inch 850 installed last week.
This should be the first batch. Hope this works.
LL
LL
LL
post #396 of 1862
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiolover718 View Post

trek guy all things considered, If I can talk my wife into letting me get a Kuro, and I don't mind spending the extra money, wouldnt the best thing to do be to get teh kuro and have a tech calibrate it? Why should i care if he has to go intot the service vs. the user menu? Which ever set one buys, they should have it ISF calibrated regardless, but then would I simply be paying 1k for slightly better blacks?

Alot of this is subjective and personal. The price difference as an issue for me (but not for my wife!), so I didn't make the effort to do a side by side with the Kuro. But if you can, you should.

Does $1k just get you better blacks? I hope that there is more to it than that, but yes, I think better blacks are the key difference. But the other way to ask the question is, "Will I be as happy with the 850 knowing that the Kuro has the edge in black?"


The 850 was such an obvious improvement over my TX-50PX500U that at the moment I am just going to enjoy it and not even consider ISF calibration. Then I'll fuss around with the filters and the AVC HD 709 disk and tune it a bit, and a bit more. And then more again.. Of course I'll know that an ISF tech with the proper gear can surpass my not calibrated eyeball and test images. So in a few months I'll revisit ISF calibration, but for now it is all good.
post #397 of 1862
Okay...think I got it. Now some better pictures.
I do not have a calibration disk. Been trying to play Bluray movies in Full screen mode. A lot of HDNET from Directv.
So far I am amazed. Really love the colors.
I have the Sharp 65inch 94U in the living room. It is great, but I think the Plasma is better. The warmth of color coupled with what I call the less harsh brightness.
Now its bright, but it does not overwhelm a person with what some call a pop.
Sometimes the Sharp can cause a headache after six hours of football. Or maybe thats when Dallas chokes....LOL.
LL
LL
LL
post #398 of 1862
A couple of quick answers needed if the groupd would be so kind to oblige...

1) where is the 65pz850u assembled? (Japan/USA/Mexico)

2) while I have read that the stand for the 750 fits the 850...is there a actual difference between the stand 's exterior design? A picture of them would be appreciated.

3) in the earlier posts...from awhile back, the 'flicker' issue of the 48hz refresh rates on 24fps material and the subsequent rumor about the factory upgrading the software (hence the shortage of units for sale), are these already taken care of today or are some issues still outstanding?

Thanks in advance.
post #399 of 1862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hersheytx View Post

Okay...think I got it. Now some better pictures.

I like your HT room, hersheytx! Did you say that was a 65" 850 hanging on the wall? It seems small where you've got it. How far back is the first row of seats? Perhaps you may want to think about pushing them closer, and lowering the plasma closer to eye level, and raising the second row high enough to see over the first.

OR... maybe even 65" is too small for that room. Looks like you've got enough wall space to consider a 2:35 screen and high-end projector...
post #400 of 1862
I got a call this morning that my 58-850 that was supposed to be delivered today is somewhere in Georgia instead of in St. Louis! I called Panasonic EPP direct & they told me that the trucking company "misrouted" it. Nobody knows when It's going to get here. I'd like to give the forklift operator a swift kick in the rear for putting it on the wrong truck! NOT happy in St. Louieeeee....
post #401 of 1862
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiolover718 View Post

Are all the advanced settings for tweaking in the service menu or the user menu on this set? I ask because in another thread i read somewhere, that the set has tons of ISF calbration settings to mess with. great, but if its not in the user menu, and I have to go into the tech menu to access them, which i am ot willing to do, then it makes the set no different from another with stripped down user menus. I might as well get a kuro, spend the extra money on a calibration guy to come to my house and have a "superior" set.

All this fussing and worry over making the right choice. Here's my two cents: You cannot go wrong with either set, so all you need to do is choose the one that best serves your personal priorities.

If the inkiest blacks are of utmost importance, then eat the extra grand, and get the Kuro, as you will then be able to sleep at night knowing that nobody else has better blacks than you. Your PQ will also be outstanding, and rival that of the 850.

If incredible value and tweakability reign supreme in your mind, then you won't be happier with anything but the 850, which is hands-down the most bang for your buck plasma available today. If the Kuro's blacks get an "A+", then the 850's would rate no less than an "A-". PQ on the 850 rates a straight "A" to the Kuro's "A+", and tweakability on the Kuro rates around a "B" to the 850's "A+".

I may have used this analogy before, but it's sort of like purchasing a BMW 5 series versus a Lexus GS. The BMW costs several thousand more, and most would agree it's the superior car in terms of performance. However, the Lexus GS is way more reliable, and performs almost as well as the BMW.

If you're like me, you like high quality products at great value over HIGHEST quality products for the highest price. This is why I'm extremely satisfied with both my Lexus GS and my Panny 850. Both high-end products for exceptional value.

If you're the type of person who settles for nothing less than the absolute best performing products, (price be damned), then quit whining and go buy your Kuro and be a happy camper.

With regards to comparing one plasma's pic to another, it's a waste of time to do that anywhere but in a high-end store that already has their TV's calibrated and displayed in low-light environments. If you can't find such a store, then simply read through threads such as this on sites such as this, and LISTEN to what the majority of actual owners are saying about the set(s) you're considering. Nobody knows better than us!

We've got 14 pages now on this thread alone, not to mention the specialty threads for 50" and 65" owners, as well as the 800u owners thread. In all these posts, you will find few, if any, negative posts about these particular units. That means STOP WORRYING. You've found a unit that's high quality and clearly worth your hard-earned money. Now simply compare it with other units that owners seem to be overwhelmingly pleased with, and decide which has the features most important to you, then just go out and pony up the cash. Done deal.

Then you get to start posting how much you love yourself for how smart you were making the choice you made, and be welcomed into our mutual admiration society.

On an unrelated note...

Anyone catch this week's Big Bang Theory? Sheldon was wearing a tee shirt that I believe confirms my theory that producer Chuck Lorre owns the 850u. It was a color HD test pattern on a white tee shirt. It's like he's on a personal mission to challenge the Studio Ref preset to simultaneously "pop" every color in the spectrum at once. I LOVE IT!

Smell ya later.... Crag
post #402 of 1862
Well said sir. Seriously, all this nattering...lol.

FWIW, I'm now over 100 hours on reduced settings and am playing with Scuba Steve's original Studio ref settings. May be a little dark for my taste, and I'm preferring the original CNET settings, with Color Temp normal and color dialed up to 50/51.

Craig, have you played much with the DCC? Any thoughts on it's affect on general viewing (ie. Non Blu) ?

I'll get another 100 hours on and then pro calibration. I will definitely post the results and user adjustable settings. I've seen several people post that they would do that (the user settings part) but no follow-up...

Bottom line...THANKS to all in this forum. Great positive and helpful comments and suggestions, and a real climate of "let's help each other out".

Pride in ownership baby!

Cheers, Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by CragAntler View Post

All this fussing and worry over making the right choice. Here's my two cents: You cannot go wrong with either set, so all you need to do is choose the one that best serves your personal priorities.

If the inkiest blacks are of utmost importance, then eat the extra grand, and get the Kuro, as you will then be able to sleep at night knowing that nobody else has better blacks than you. Your PQ will also be outstanding, and rival that of the 850.

If incredible value and tweakability reign supreme in your mind, then you won't be happier with anything but the 850, which is hands-down the most bang for your buck plasma available today. If the Kuro's blacks get an "A+", then the 850's would rate no less than an "A-". PQ on the 850 rates a straight "A" to the Kuro's "A+", and tweakability on the Kuro rates around a "B" to the 850's "A+".

I may have used this analogy before, but it's sort of like purchasing a BMW 5 series versus a Lexus GS. The BMW costs several thousand more, and most would agree it's the superior car in terms of performance. However, the Lexus GS is way more reliable, and performs almost as well as the BMW.

If you're like me, you like high quality products at great value over HIGHEST quality products for the highest price. This is why I'm extremely satisfied with both my Lexus GS and my Panny 850. Both high-end products for exceptional value.

If you're the type of person who settles for nothing less than the absolute best performing products, (price be damned), then quit whining and go buy your Kuro and be a happy camper.

With regards to comparing one plasma's pic to another, it's a waste of time to do that anywhere but in a high-end store that already has their TV's calibrated and displayed in low-light environments. If you can't find such a store, then simply read through threads such as this on sites such as this, and LISTEN to what the majority of actual owners are saying about the set(s) you're considering. Nobody knows better than us!

We've got 14 pages now on this thread alone, not to mention the specialty threads for 50" and 65" owners, as well as the 800u owners thread. In all these posts, you will find few, if any, negative posts about these particular units. That means STOP WORRYING. You've found a unit that's high quality and clearly worth your hard-earned money. Now simply compare it with other units that owners seem to be overwhelmingly pleased with, and decide which has the features most important to you, then just go out and pony up the cash. Done deal.

Then you get to start posting how much you love yourself for how smart you were making the choice you made, and be welcomed into our mutual admiration society.

On an unrelated note...

Anyone catch this week's Big Bang Theory? Sheldon was wearing a tee shirt that I believe confirms my theory that producer Chuck Lorre owns the 850u. It was a color HD test pattern on a white tee shirt. It's like he's on a personal mission to challenge the Studio Ref preset to simultaneously "pop" every color in the spectrum at once. I LOVE IT!

Smell ya later.... Crag
post #403 of 1862
Quote:
Originally Posted by CragAntler View Post

... and be welcomed into our mutual admiration society. ...

Hey Crag, Is that an 850U you have there? That is SO SWEET! I see you chose the set with the best value available today. Nice job!

See what we mean audiolover???
post #404 of 1862
Quote:
Originally Posted by CragAntler View Post

All this fussing and worry over making the right choice. Here's my two cents: You cannot go wrong with either set, so all you need to do is choose the one that best serves your personal priorities.

If the inkiest blacks are of utmost importance, then eat the extra grand, and get the Kuro, as you will then be able to sleep at night knowing that nobody else has better blacks than you. Your PQ will also be outstanding, and rival that of the 850.

If incredible value and tweakability reign supreme in your mind, then you won't be happier with anything but the 850, which is hands-down the most bang for your buck plasma available today. If the Kuro's blacks get an "A+", then the 850's would rate no less than an "A-". PQ on the 850 rates a straight "A" to the Kuro's "A+", and tweakability on the Kuro rates around a "B" to the 850's "A+".

I may have used this analogy before, but it's sort of like purchasing a BMW 5 series versus a Lexus GS. The BMW costs several thousand more, and most would agree it's the superior car in terms of performance. However, the Lexus GS is way more reliable, and performs almost as well as the BMW.

If you're like me, you like high quality products at great value over HIGHEST quality products for the highest price. This is why I'm extremely satisfied with both my Lexus GS and my Panny 850. Both high-end products for exceptional value.

If you're the type of person who settles for nothing less than the absolute best performing products, (price be damned), then quit whining and go buy your Kuro and be a happy camper.

With regards to comparing one plasma's pic to another, it's a waste of time to do that anywhere but in a high-end store that already has their TV's calibrated and displayed in low-light environments. If you can't find such a store, then simply read through threads such as this on sites such as this, and LISTEN to what the majority of actual owners are saying about the set(s) you're considering. Nobody knows better than us!

We've got 14 pages now on this thread alone, not to mention the specialty threads for 50" and 65" owners, as well as the 800u owners thread. In all these posts, you will find few, if any, negative posts about these particular units. That means STOP WORRYING. You've found a unit that's high quality and clearly worth your hard-earned money. Now simply compare it with other units that owners seem to be overwhelmingly pleased with, and decide which has the features most important to you, then just go out and pony up the cash. Done deal.

Then you get to start posting how much you love yourself for how smart you were making the choice you made, and be welcomed into our mutual admiration society.

On an unrelated note...

Anyone catch this week's Big Bang Theory? Sheldon was wearing a tee shirt that I believe confirms my theory that producer Chuck Lorre owns the 850u. It was a color HD test pattern on a white tee shirt. It's like he's on a personal mission to challenge the Studio Ref preset to simultaneously "pop" every color in the spectrum at once. I LOVE IT!

Smell ya later.... Crag

OK. I have a 2006 Lexus GS and a 2008 Panny 58" 850. I guess a fall in the I like High Quality products with a lot of Value catagory. I can go to bed now and sleep better.
post #405 of 1862
Quote:
Originally Posted by CragAntler View Post

and tweakability on the Kuro rates around a "B" to the 850's "A+".

Tweakablility???? Exactly which Kuro are you referring to as the Elites have much more control compared to the 850u.

If you are speaking of the non-Elites, well.... post calibration they are still better than the 850 in color saturation, color luminance, gamma, grayscale, and video processing
post #406 of 1862
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Tweakablility???? Exactly which Kuro are you referring to as the Elites have much more control compared to the 850u.

If you are speaking of the non-Elites, well.... post calibration they are still better than the 850 in color saturation, color luminance, gamma, grayscale, and video processing

How do they compare in price for the 50" screen?

Jim
post #407 of 1862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_In_Boston View Post

How do they compare in price for the 50" screen?

Jim

Depends on the exact model and store you purchase it from.
post #408 of 1862
That the Kuro Elite looks slightly better is not at all in dispute. For $2K more it ought to. To me though, it was a question of value and the law of diminishing returns. If you want the best of the best in this category, pay $6K and get an Elite. I had the money, but couldn't see the extra cost as being worth it.
If you want very nearly the same picture, (not discernible unless side by side in my opinion) at $2500 less, get this set!
post #409 of 1862
Quote:
Originally Posted by CragAntler View Post

I like your HT room, hersheytx! Did you say that was a 65" 850 hanging on the wall? It seems small where you've got it. How far back is the first row of seats? Perhaps you may want to think about pushing them closer, and lowering the plasma closer to eye level, and raising the second row high enough to see over the first.

OR... maybe even 65" is too small for that room. Looks like you've got enough wall space to consider a 2:35 screen and high-end projector...

Only reason I did not go with a projector was the need for a super crisp picture. I did not find any projector that could hold a candle to a good Plasma.
I hope to upgrade to a larger plasma in the coming years.
Seats are 10 feet from the Plasma. I had them at 8ft but all the power cords were exposed for the electric seats. I am hoping to get some friends together for New Years and get their impressions.
We can move things around a bit and see what works.
I had the TV installed so I would get the right height. We worked on it for almost an hour before deciding where it should be placed. Good news is the bracket they used can support a 100 inch Plasma weighing over 300 lbs.
That is the main reason you see extra space on the wall.
I really wanted my builder to make the back riser at least 10 inches. They only made it 6inches. Nothing I could do would change their mind. To bad the economy was still good when I was building. I think they would have done anything for me now in this mess we are in.
post #410 of 1862
Quote:
Originally Posted by oatmeal769 View Post

That the Kuro Elite looks slightly better is not at all in dispute. For $2K more it ought to. To me though, it was a question of value and the law of diminishing returns. If you want the best of the best in this category, pay $6K and get an Elite. I had the money, but couldn't see the extra cost as being worth it.
If you want very nearly the same picture, (not discernible unless side by side in my opinion) at $2500 less, get this set!

If you are paying 6K for an Elite, you really have not done your homework.

If you are paying 2K more in price for an Elite vs an 850u (street price), you have not done your homework.
post #411 of 1862
Perhaps, however even $1,000, or $500 would not be worth it in my judgment. As I have said before though, YMMV.
post #412 of 1862
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

If you are paying 6K for an Elite, you really have not done your homework.

If you are paying 2K more in price for an Elite vs an 850u (street price), you have not done your homework.

The cheapest I've ever seen the 60" Kuro Elite was 4550.00 (Fantastic Price only lasted a weekend), and I was able to get my 850U for under 2900.00. So, you might be able to get a really good deal on a Kuro, but most people are still going to pay an average price of 5500.00. So there is a pretty big price difference. Since I truly believe next year the new Kuro will be a bigger jump than it was this year, I decided to go with the Panny and get the Kuro next year. For the money, I am very impressed with the Panny. This is my first Plasma and I'm in heaven. I cant wait till I make the jump to the Elite!!

BTW, Thanks for all your research and knowledge!

CW
post #413 of 1862
Quote:
Originally Posted by buylongterm View Post

The cheapest I've ever seen the 60" Kuro Elite was 4550.00 (Fantastic Price only lasted a weekend), and I was able to get my 850U for under 2900.00. So, you might be able to get a really good deal on a Kuro, but most people are still going to pay an average price of 5500.00. So there is a pretty big price difference. Since I truly believe next year the new Kuro will be a bigger jump than it was this year, I decided to go with the Panny and get the Kuro next year. For the money, I am very impressed with the Panny. This is my first Plasma and I'm in heaven. I cant wait till I make the jump to the Elite!!

BTW, Thanks for all your research and knowledge!

CW

Yea, I haven't seen anything under a 2K price difference between the Kuro Elite and the 850U. Now if we are talking the Kuro 6020, then that's a different story.
post #414 of 1862
Quote:
Originally Posted by buylongterm View Post

The cheapest I've ever seen the 60" Kuro Elite was 4550.00 (Fantastic Price only lasted a weekend), and I was able to get my 850U for under 2900.00. So, you might be able to get a really good deal on a Kuro, but most people are still going to pay an average price of 5500.00. So there is a pretty big price difference. Since I truly believe next year the new Kuro will be a bigger jump than it was this year, I decided to go with the Panny and get the Kuro next year. For the money, I am very impressed with the Panny. This is my first Plasma and I'm in heaven. I cant wait till I make the jump to the Elite!!

Wow. You're going to set off a serious epidemic of Pixel-envy on this thread. Nice to be able to trade in one's 58/60" plasma every year.
post #415 of 1862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hersheytx View Post

Trying for the first time to show my theater room. Got my Panasonic 65inch 850 installed last week.
This should be the first batch. Hope this works.

Nice room. Love those deep red walls. Please show the 850.
post #416 of 1862
Well folks here is the final calibration, top to bottom, and all the graphs and charts that go along with it.

Everything looks great!

The setup consisted of the following:

Denon AVR-4308CI Receiver
Panasonic TH-58PZ850U Plasma
Panasonic DMP-BD55K BRPlayer - Video Pic on player USER all 0's.

Blu-ray player was run through the receiver clean, meaning no processing done by the Denon.

HDMI1

Service Menu:

Contrast - 000
Color - 3F
Tint - 03
Sub-Brt - 800

WB-ADJ: CUSTOM

All-Cut - 80
All-Drv - FC
R-Cut - 80
G-Cut - 80
B-Cut - 80
R-Drv - FC
G-Drv - D9
B-Drv - 7D
Format - HD
Method - 03
Color Temp - Warm


PM:

Picture - +50
Brightness - +47
Color - +50
Tint - 0
Sharp - 50
CT - Warm
CM - Off
DCC - Off
C.A.T.S - Off

Pro Settings:

PB - Low
CE - Off
GA - Mid
BE - 0

W/B high R - -11
W/B high B - 0
W/B low R - +1
W/B low B - +1
AGC - Off

Advance Picture

All Off
Black Level - Light
24p - 60hz
HDS - 2

Best gamma I could pull while still achieving an excellent black level was 2.10, target was 2.2, not bad in the end.
Picture is stunning!

The service menu adjustment under CUSTOM is my friends factory default THX setting from his 800 series.

As you can tell, once I applied his THX setting, the changes were far less drastic in the pro menu.

The colors pop more at the default settings so I left them as is.

Less IR with these changes.
LL

 

Robert - Detailed Calibration Summary.pdf 23.59375k . file

 

Robert - Detailed Display Device Analysis.pdf 23.044921875k . file
LL
LL
post #417 of 1862
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbyrockets View Post

Well folks here is the final calibration, top to bottom, and all the graphs and charts that go along with it.

Everything looks great!

The setup consisted of the following:

Denon AVR-4308CI Receiver
Panasonic TH-58PZ850U Plasma
Panasonic DMP-BD55K BRPlayer - Video Pic on player USER all 0's.

Blu-ray player was run through the receiver clean, meaning no processing done by the Denon.

HDMI1

Service Menu:

Contrast - 000
Color - 3F
Tint - 03
Sub-Brt - 800

WB-ADJ:

All-Cut - 80
All-Drv - E2
R-Cut - 7F
G-Cut - 80
B-Cut - 7F
R-Drv - E2
G-Drv - DA
B-Drv - 84
Format - HD
Method - 03
Color Temp - Warm


PM:

Picture - +52
Brightness - +48
Color - +49
Tint - -5
Sharp - 50
CT - Warm
CM - Off
DCC - Off
C.A.T.S - Off

Pro Settings:

PB - Low
CE - Off
GA - Mid
BE - 0

W/B high R - +4
W/B high B - -2
W/B low R - 0
W/B low B - +2
AGC - Off

Advance Picture

All Off
Black Level - Light
24p - 60hz
HDS - 2

Best gamma I could pull while still achieving an excellent black level was 2.13, target was 2.2, not bad in the end.
Picture is stunning!

Robby, thanks for the results and settings!

If we were to make the service menue changes to your results, would it yield the same results or would you have to show us a +/- value of the SM from your TV our of the box. I was under the impression there most TV's SM values out of box may differ.

Or I can have it all wrong haha. Anywho thanks again for your efforts and I look forward to all the future tweaks we will have because of this.
post #418 of 1862
Robby, what's the process to access the service menu?

Thanks for posting up the settings!
post #419 of 1862
Does the 65" not come with a pedestal stand? Is the Panasonic epp site down for anyone else?
post #420 of 1862
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuroraProject View Post

Does the 65" not come with a pedestal stand? Is the Panasonic epp site down for anyone else?

65" does not come with a pedestal stand, the 65pz850u takes TY-ST65R4-WG
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