Official Blu-Ray Player Audio Setup Thread - All Audio Questions Go Here - Page 53

First, you must recognize that there is no way for you to get lossless surround sound -- DTS Master Audio, Dolby TrueHD, or multichannel LPCM -- with your combination of components. This would require an HDMI input on your HT system, which it lacks.

Secondly, there is only one way to get discrete 5.1 sound (standard Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS 5.1) from your player, and that's using its optical digital audio connection. Your HT system hgas only one digital audio input, so you will have to use it. If you have another source device (satellite box, DVR, whatever) already occupying that input, you will have to either choose one, or acquire an external switcher so that you can connect multiple digital audio sources to the switcher, and the switcher's output to the HT. Here is an example of such a switch: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10423&cs_id=1042302&p_id=2946&seq=1&format=2

EDIT: Your player has only coax digital audio out, not optical. Works the same, but needs different cables and switches.

You will have to connect the HDMI output of the Blu-ray player directly to your TV. But don't imagine you can then connect the TV's audio output to the HT; this output will be stereo, not surround. This will be true for any external device connected to the TV; the TV's audio output can provide 5.1 surround only from its own internal tuner.

As should be evident from the responses you're getting, integrated HT systems are... sub-optimal for the application you are attempting. You have taken the first step down the road to needing a true AV receiver as the core of a much more capable home theater system. Welcome to the party.
Edited by rdclark - 1/16/13 at 11:28am

this has been super helpful. I will get back to you if I can't get it to work. Thanks!

I wanted to correct something from my post above. Looking at the manual for the BDP-390, it has no optical audio output, only a coaxial one. Same functionality, but you'd need a coax audio switch, not an optical switch, to connect more that one source to your HT. I do not believe you can use both your HT's coax and optical audio inputs at the same time, but check your documentation.

I just bought this to convert the Coaxial to optical http://www.ebay.com/itm/350650799201?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 and I already have the exact 3-switch optical device you tagged above. In other words, my system will be cheap but gimmicky. Thank you very much for taking the time to help me.

I'm a little confused as far as PCM/Bitstreaming/player support goes:

I have a Blu-ray player that can only output Dolby TrueHD and not DTS-HD MA. So if I'm understanding right, if I wanted to hear DTS-HD, I'd set my player to bitstream? Or would I need a new player to hear the DTS-HD track on the AVR? At the moment, I have an oldie receiver that only does basic stereo PCM, DD and DTS but I am looking to upgrade in the near future.

No. With your current equipment, setting your player to bitstream would send the lossy DTS track, not dts-MA. Assuming your player can decode dts-MA and you are using HDMI, you would set the player to PCM, not bitstream. If you get a new AVR with lossless decoders, you can use either bitstream or PCM.

hello thinking of getting a new oppo 103 for the 4k and 3d upscales would this work well with the onkyo 616 receiver have 7.2 surround optoma 33 projector real question would be the hookup will the receiver or the oppo have issues since they both upconvert? any help would be great thanks

Got it, thanks BIslander!

Wow, the FAQ at the beginning of this thread is great. I had no idea that the SPDIF/TOSLINK output of the Bluray player did not (may not) contain the full audio information stored on the Bluray disc.

But this raises some question. I have several Bluray discs, but only one where the audio skips. In about a dozen places on the disc. This is the Disney's BRAVE Blurray disc. My toslink/spdif connected amp will go UNLOCK and the audio is interrupted for a moment. I had though it was because Disney had used one of the higher rate audio formats. And that my amp was years old and could not handle it. But now that I know the SPDIF/TOSLINK output does not contain these higher rate audio formats, I am confused as to why this particular disc's audio track causes my amplifier to go UNLOCK.

Noteworthy tests:
1. Audio skipping happens on both the Disney BRAVE Bluray 3D disc and the Disney BRAVE Bluray 2D disc.
2. It dose not happen on the Disney BRAVE DVD disc.
3. Audio skipping happens when the 5.1 or 7.1 audio tracks are selected on the Disney BRAVE Bluray disc menu.
4. It does not happen when the stereo audio track is selected.

The Bluray player is a Samsung 5900 which had a firmware upgrade just this past month.

The FAQ here says:

What I would like to know is how much higher is the bit rate? And what causes the increase? If different Bluray disc cause different bit rates? And which would cause the highest bit rate?

-thanks

DD 5.1 is limited to 448kbps by the DVD spec and is usually encoded at 384kbps or less. On Blu-ray, the DD 5.1 track associated with TrueHD encoding is output at 640kbps.

DTS tracks on DVD are usually 768kbps while the lossy core on Blu-ray is twice that. Blu-ray discs have a lot more space, allowing for larger lossy audio files.

That quote from the FAQ is wrong in one respect - DTS is never 7.1. A small number of DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 tracks were released. Everything else is limited to 5.1.
Edited by BIslander - 2/2/13 at 7:03pm

Thanks for the info BIslander. What I'm trying to do is localize the problem to either the disc, Bluray Player or Amplifier. If the Bluray player is suppose to make all the Bluray SPDIF/TOSLINK audio look like DVD audio, then I'm thinking the audio skipping is the Bluray Player's problem. But if the Player can legally output SPDIF/TOSLINK frequencies which are higher than normal DVD frequencies, well, I don't think it's fair, but then it would look like I need a new amplifier.

-thanks

It is true that some older receivers cannot handle the higher bitrate lossy codecs. But, if this only happens with one release and other Blu-rays with the same high bitrate encodes play just fine, then it's more likely a problem with that one disc. Do other Blu-rays play OK?

Think you misread the post above your reply. Looks to me the other way round...

I have 4 Bluray discs. HARRY POTTER DH part 1 and part 2, the notorious AVATAR and a multiple disc set of Disney's BRAVE. All except Disney's BRAVE play with out audio skip. Here's an interesting bit. Both the 3D and the 2D versions of Disney's BRAVE have audio skip problems. These are 2 physically different Bluray discs. The audio skip happens if I select 7.1 or 5.1 audio from the disc's menus. If I select stereo from the disc's menus there is no skipping. (BTW, The Disney BRAVE DVD from this set has no audio skipping problem.) Further, if I use the Samsung 5900 audio menu and select other than the BITSTREAM(un-re-encoded) I do not get an audio skip. However, I don't think the sound is as good. There are 3 other options: PCM, BITSTREAM(re-encoded to DTS) and BITSTREAM(re-encoded to DD). The PCM forces the SPDIF/TOSLINK output to stereo. The re-encoding selections do exactly what they say. No matter what, the SPDIF/TOSLINK output is always either DTS or DD. Makes you wonder what the Samsung 5900 is doing to the audio in these settings.

-thanks

No. No. I believe my reply was correct. Why do you think otherwise?

That would seem to point toward something with that particular release that your AVR can't handle. Using one of the re-encode settings should be fine since you are only getting lossy over optical anyway. With re-encode, the player decodes the lossless track, runs the resulting PCM through a mixer to fold in secondary audio (menu sound effects and PIP commentary tracks), and then encodes the output as DD 5.1 or DTS. The audio quality should not be any different than the lossy DTS core or embedded DD 5.1 track in theTrueHD package.

^^ For a start, the assumption that the BDP can decode dts-HD MA. Granted the info is vague (dunno the model) but I'm not aware of any player that can't bitstream (if that's what 'output' meant) HD MA but can decode it internally. If 'output' meant decode then it's obvious it can't decode.

I equated output with bitstream and, in the early days, some players had bitstream capability for TrueHD, but not dts-MA. If that's what the poster meant, my reply is correct. If he meant his player can bitstream but not decode, which was also the case early on, then the opposite would be true. Hard to say which is correct since the post did not define output. Maybe his player can't do either.

^^ All very well but I was really trying to say if a player (esp. in the early days) could not bitstream HD MA by implication it could not internally decode either. My previous Sony 300 and Panny 30 from 6-7 years ago could do the converse, bitstream but not decode.

The important thing is the poster thought his query was answered.

Hi, I can't seem to find many blu ray audio discs anywhere online, where is everyone getting them from?

Thanks,
John.

There aren't many. But, you'll likely get more responses in the surround music forum.

Thanks for the response. I agree I can't find many. What is everyone using besides vinyl masters for quality media, either downloaded or discs? As it looks like the blu-ray audio is limited. I ordered the Led Zep celebration day and I'm waiting for it to arrive.

BIslander; I have been following this thread for a while now but often get lost in its tech content. I'm in awe of your tech savyness in this area and others. I have just now mustered up the fortitude to post because I'm purchasing new audio equipment this week. If you would be so kind, I'm getting a Onkyo 818 receiver. I would like to know if you or anyone else can recommend or; are aware of a best "bang for your buck" blue ray player with excellent video and audio capabilities for a nice B&W speaker system? I would like to stay within my budget of $500 or less.

Thanks for the kind words. I'm probably not the one to ask about BD players as I haven't shopped for one seriously in a few years. Got my in-laws a Panasonic last year and it's been a fine machine for about $100. Much depends on things like 3D and various apps. You may have better luck with responses in the dedicated sticky thread for people looking for players.

I am sure its a " newbie " question but i need a little help

I have an old receiver capable of 5.1 DD/DTS (not hd) with optical input. Using dvd player atm without problem.
Thinking to buy a bluray player. Can i still hear sound as DD/DTS if i buy blurays with hd audio like DTS-HD Master Audio or Dolby TrueHD ?

Yes, and the sound will usually be better because, even with legacy DD or DTS, the bitrate is higher. There are many people who feel there is no useful difference in sound quality, setting aside the potential for 7.1. Even if they're wrong (I think they are), the fact that it's even arguable tells you something.

Players are designed to output lossy DD 5.1 and DTS to older equipment that cannot decode lossless formats. That happens automatically when using an optical or coax connection and it happens based on the handshake with an HDMI connection.

Hi, so for music am I better going through HDMI or optical? My pre/pro is the Marantz av8801, amp is a 7 channel Sunfire and my blu ray player is an Oppo 93. Thanks.

HDMI, always. Optical doesn't handle lossless audio formats, nor DSD (for SACD).

That's good to know. I'm HDMI already and looks like I'll stay they way, thanks.