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Official Blu-Ray Player Audio Setup Thread - All Audio Questions Go Here - Page 54

post #1591 of 1692
For stereo, HDMI has no advantage. And, there's a school that says optical is better because of reduced jitter. While I've never seen evidence that such jitter is audible, I thought I'd mention this for completeness.
post #1592 of 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

For stereo, HDMI has no advantage. And, there's a school that says optical is better because of reduced jitter. While I've never seen evidence that such jitter is audible, I thought I'd mention this for completeness.



I play 90% music through my 5.1 setup, and I usually have the pre/pro set on music>multi channel. Now that mentioned this about the optical possibly being better for stereo, would this apply to me?
post #1593 of 1692
If the source is stereo PCM, yes, it would apply to you. If the source is DSD or multichannel, HDMI (or multichannel analog) is required for high resolution transmission.
post #1594 of 1692
It depends what the source of the 2CH PCM is: CDs, mp3s and anything low res are fine.

Players won't pass high res 2CH PCM from DVD-Audio with copyright via SPDIF (downsampled to 48kHz) and most players won't pass anything in high res or at all from SACD (but Pioneer BDPs will pass 2CH PCM 88.2kHz).

If it sounds too complicated then just use HDMI.
post #1595 of 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

If the source is stereo PCM, yes, it would apply to you. If the source is DSD or multichannel, HDMI (or multichannel analog) is required for high resolution transmission.



So it sounds like for my normal cd's and downloads optical and of course SACD and DVD-a would have to go through hdmi or components. I've wondered abound this and just haven't used optical in awhile and I'm I need of a better cable.
post #1596 of 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

It depends what the source of the 2CH PCM is: CDs, mp3s and anything low res are fine.

Players won't pass high res 2CH PCM from DVD-Audio with copyright via SPDIF (downsampled to 48kHz) and most players won't pass anything in high res or at all from SACD (but Pioneer BDPs will pass 2CH PCM 88.2kHz).

If it sounds too complicated then just use HDMI.



I understand what your saying and it doesn't sound to complicated, I appreciate your post. It's my better sounding media I want to get the most out of. You know how it goes some of it sounds bad no matter what you do to try and help it out.
post #1597 of 1692
Long time lurker first time poster smile.gif so i need a little bit of help please, i have a Samsung BD-E6100 with Coaxial Digital Audio Output but the surround sound headphones i use for the 360/pc etc only has a Toslink connector what do i need to be able to connect them ?

And i have just realised this may not be in the right forum, if not sorry, tho couldnt seem to find one for my player so came here :/
Edited by LieutLaww - 2/14/13 at 9:45am
post #1598 of 1692
A coax-optical converter should do the trick. Try monoprice.com.
post #1599 of 1692
Thanks, will have a look.
post #1600 of 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

I understand what your saying and it doesn't sound to complicated, I appreciate your post. It's my better sounding media I want to get the most out of. You know how it goes some of it sounds bad no matter what you do to try and help it out.

I should also have said since you are using Oppo 93 which has been tested to have very low HDMI jitter (picoseconds, similar to SDPIF) I'd just use HDMI as in this scenario there is no theoretical advantage using SPDIF.

My comments above were to the general audience (esp. those not using Oppo) to cover the basics and caveats. I have separate players so I use SDPIF sometimes from an old CD/DVD player when listening to CDs. It avoids the HDMI handshaking delay that sometimes happens and results in missing the first few notes of the first track.
post #1601 of 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

I should also have said since you are using Oppo 93 which has been tested to have very low HDMI jitter (picoseconds, similar to SDPIF) I'd just use HDMI as in this scenario there is no theoretical advantage using SPDIF.

My comments above were to the general audience (esp. those not using Oppo) to cover the basics and caveats. I have separate players so I use SDPIF sometimes from an old CD/DVD player when listening to CDs. It avoids the HDMI handshaking delay that sometimes happens and results in missing the first few notes of the first track.



Ok, so it sounds like I need to experiment just to compare. What is the difference between PCM and DSD In SACD playback? I just got new Revel speakers today and I'm doing some adjustments before running Audyssey tomorrow.
post #1602 of 1692
If you mean is there a difference with player sending DSD or PCM to receiver, then generally no because receiver will convert to PCM anyway when doing processing. There are situations where it differs between player and receiver doing the conversion due to equipment specific scenarios (different PCM sample rate) and idiosyncrasies (low bass when sent DSD).

Most SACDs are in fact derived from original PCM or old analogue recordings. Only some are recorded natively in DSD. Any editing in the studio and processing in playback like bass management would have to be done in PCM. There's nothing sacrosanct or pure about preserving DSD.

So unless you specifically insist on a purist approach, having DSD-analogue direct decoding from the disc to the speaker output there will be PCM conversion at some stage.
post #1603 of 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

If you mean is there a difference with player sending DSD or PCM to receiver, then generally no because receiver will convert to PCM anyway when doing processing. There are situations where it differs between player and receiver doing the conversion due to equipment specific scenarios (different PCM sample rate) and idiosyncrasies (low bass when sent DSD).

Most SACDs are in fact derived from original PCM or old analogue recordings. Only some are recorded natively in DSD. Any editing in the studio and processing in playback like bass management would have to be done in PCM. There's nothing sacrosanct or pure about preserving DSD.

So unless you specifically insist on a purist approach, having DSD-analogue direct decoding from the disc to the speaker output there will be PCM conversion at some stage.



I understand what your saying. I just don't understand why there would be a choice in the settings. If the signal gets converted to PCM by the receiver, then what's the point of the setting? I have the Marantz av8801 and I'm just getting used to some of the settings, but I'm pretty sure it has a DSD direct setting. Not sure if this matters or not.
Edited by comfynumb - 2/14/13 at 7:59pm
post #1604 of 1692
It's all about giving consumer a choice, but sometimes too many choices can be confusing and not every option is equally ideal.

I think it has a role in a 2CH set-up with player decoding to analogue to an integrated amp, because digital output isn't possible in that scenario and DSD-PCM-analogue confers no advantage over DSD-analogue if no digital processing is going to happen down the line. In that situation I'd choose DSD-analogue (and I do although I have different SACD players from Oppo for 2CH).

For a MCH set-up the case for sending DSD is less convincing. If you're not going to do bass management or any digital processing down the line, you likely not have any sub signal because a lot of SACDs are 5.0, not 5.1. And I'm not sure how many SSP/AVRs, even those with a 'DSD' setting (which only means it is receiving DSD) can decode DSD directly to analogue.

Since you have the Marantz, you probably have followed a similar discussion over there:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1431914/marantz-av8801-preamp-processor-official-owners-thread/2820#post_22967095

One thing I should point out is, usually we just don't know how SSP/receivers convert DSD to PCM, at what sample rate so if you're going to use digital processing you might just as well let player do the conversion, at least you know what the player is doing (usually SSP/AVRs tell you).
post #1605 of 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

It's all about giving consumer a choice, but sometimes too many choices can be confusing and not every option is equally ideal.

I think it has a role in a 2CH set-up with player decoding to analogue to an integrated amp, because digital output isn't possible in that scenario and DSD-PCM-analogue confers no advantage over DSD-analogue if no digital processing is going to happen down the line. In that situation I'd choose DSD-analogue (and I do although I have different SACD players from Oppo for 2CH).

For a MCH set-up the case for sending DSD is less convincing. If you're not going to do bass management or any digital processing down the line, you likely not have any sub signal because a lot of SACDs are 5.0, not 5.1. And I'm not sure how many SSP/AVRs, even those with a 'DSD' setting (which only means it is receiving DSD) can decode DSD directly to analogue.

Since you have the Marantz, you probably have followed a similar discussion over there:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1431914/marantz-av8801-preamp-processor-official-owners-thread/2820#post_22967095

One thing I should point out is, usually we just don't know how SSP/receivers convert DSD to PCM, at what sample rate so if you're going to use digital processing you might just as well let player do the conversion, at least you know what the player is doing (usually SSP/AVRs tell you).



Thanks for taking the time to explain this. Yes I follow that thread, but I'm technically challenged compared to the pros. There's so much to this anymore that sometimes I miss my old set up, where my only concern was making sure I cleaned my albums properly.
post #1606 of 1692
You're welcome, and don't worry too much, just enjoy your stuff and learn at your own pace. There's no pressure to get everything right at the outset. smile.gif
post #1607 of 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

You're welcome, and don't worry too much, just enjoy your stuff and learn at your own pace. There's no pressure to get everything right at the outset. smile.gif



That's a good thing. Learning my new pre/pro and getting into all the settings in the Oppo gets confusing, but ill get it. Thanks again.
post #1608 of 1692
I am in the process of reading this entire thread. I have more to read but haven't come across this yet: my BD player is connected to my HDTV via HDMI, and to my older Yamaha AVR via optical. Although it sounds quite good, the display on my AVR always says Dolby Pro Logic when playing a BD. When I play TV audio (HDMI to STB and optical from STB to AVR) Dolby Digital is displayed. Any idea what is going on? Thanks
post #1609 of 1692
What player and what are the audio settings? ProLogic suggests the player is sending stereo.
post #1610 of 1692
Panasonic DMP-BDT210. I have tried PCM, Bitstream, sec audio off/on; I can't think of what I haven't tried. Thanks
post #1611 of 1692
It may be the HDMI audio handshake with the TV, which is a stereo device. There should be a player setting to disable the HDMI audio output. Or, as a quick test, simply disconnect the HDMI cable to the TV and see if you start getting an encoded bitstream output.

With optical, set the the outputs to bitstream for both Dolby and DTS. Secondary audio doesn't matter with optical. You'll get lossy bitstream with either setting. But, turn it off for good measure until you get this straightened out.
post #1612 of 1692
Thanks for your help BIslander. Figured it out. Turns out my AVR can't decode DTS audio, so it defaults to Pro Logic for BD lacking a Dolby Digital core.. The first couple of BD's I tried were encoded with DTS-MA and no accompanying DD track. Not a huge problem as a lot of my BD have a DD core, and for those that don't Dolby Pro Logic still sounds pretty good. (My wife tells me that she and the neighbors sure can't tell I have a sound issue.) Anyone reading this with a similar issue, make sure you set DTS audio to PCM in your settings menu.
post #1613 of 1692
That would explain it. Presumably, you got silence or noise when you set the DTS output to bitstream. PCM is the correct setting and you should also set downmix to surround encoding in the player. It will package up the stereo signal in a way that maximizes the surround effects produced by ProLogic II in your receiver. You'll be watching most Blu-rays that way since the vast majority have dts-MA tracks with no Dolby option.
post #1614 of 1692
Good evening all

What is considered the prefered method for connecting a blue Ray to a HT. Is is connecting the player directly to the display or connecting it to the receiver and the receiver to the display??

Alain
post #1615 of 1692
It depends. Most people connect their devices to the receiver and feed video from there to the TV. And, for lossless audio, you have to connect the player to the receiver. But, if you have a 3D display and an AVR that can't pass 3D, you'd need to bypass the receiver. Also, some people like to use different display settings for each device, which means running each of them to the display separately.
post #1616 of 1692
Hi – would really appreciate anyone’s thoughts on the following. I’m looking to upgrade my blu-ray player AND finally enter the era of digital music and am therefore looking for both a DAC and a new blu-ray player.

I will play the blu-ray through my stereo (I have a high end British amp and CD player). So here’s my dilemma. I had originally thought the OPPO 105 would be the perfect solution as in addition to the blu-ray it also has the DAC. However, the more I look into this and read about it, the more I’m pulled towards the need for a separate DAC and have heard that the DAC in the OPPO can’t compete with the stand-alone DACs of equal cost. The final issue is that I’m under a bit of pressure from my darling wife to keep my system as tidy as possible, and try to avoid any more “big boxes”.

So I guess my questions are:

1) How does the DAC in the OPPO 105 stack up against the sub $1,000 separate DACs? Specifically for sound quality from a macbook with pure music, and also from a blu-ray player and cable box?
2) If I would be best off getting a separate DAC, and since I need to at least try and keep it semi-compact, the most recommended under $1,000 seem to be:
a. Rega DAC
b. Schiit Bifrost
c. Resonessence Labs Concero
d. Music Fidelity V DAC II
e. Arcam rDAC
f. Music Fidelity M1 (might be a bit too big?)
g. Cambridge Audio DAC Magic Plus (again, too big?)
h. Peachtree DAC iT (although this is not asynchronous)
i. Any others?

With regards sound, I’m looking for a neutral, slightly warm character to go with my amp / speakers, not too lively and avoiding unwanted treble and brightness.

Would really appreciate any suggestions / comments / guidance.

Thanks
post #1617 of 1692
Hello,

I'm looking to buy a blu-ray player, and am thinking about features. My AVR can decode DTS-HD, if I wanted to save some money on the bluray player, can I get a lower-end model that won't be able to decode the DTS-HD and then send it to the AVR via bitstream?


From the first post, it seems the opposite works fine (having a new bluray decode the DTS-HD and send it over via PCM to an older AVR), but I couldn't find anything about my question.

Thanks.
post #1618 of 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Questions123 View Post

Hello,

I'm looking to buy a blu-ray player, and am thinking about features. My AVR can decode DTS-HD, if I wanted to save some money on the bluray player, can I get a lower-end model that won't be able to decode the DTS-HD and then send it to the AVR via bitstream?


From the first post, it seems the opposite works fine (having a new bluray decode the DTS-HD and send it over via PCM to an older AVR), but I couldn't find anything about my question.

Thanks.



Hi, are you talking about the BDP-93 being capable of this? If that's your question it is. Or do you mean another brand? In pretty sure this is standard on most brands nowadays. If money is your main concern IMO I'd rather try and get a used good Oppo than a lower quality new player. Just my preference.
Edited by comfynumb - 3/15/13 at 7:56am
post #1619 of 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Questions123 View Post

Hello,

I'm looking to buy a blu-ray player, and am thinking about features. My AVR can decode DTS-HD, if I wanted to save some money on the bluray player, can I get a lower-end model that won't be able to decode the DTS-HD and then send it to the AVR via bitstream?


From the first post, it seems the opposite works fine (having a new bluray decode the DTS-HD and send it over via PCM to an older AVR), but I couldn't find anything about my question.

Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Hi, are you talking about the BDP-93 as being capable of this? If that's your question it is. Or do you mean another brand? In pretty sure this is standard on most brands nowadays. If money is your main concern IMO I'd rather try and get a used good Oppo than a lower quality new player. Just my preference.
Questions123, you're going to have to go WAY back to 2008 or earlier to find a player that can't decode DTS-HD. Try the Sony BDP-S350, which is selling for $25-$30 shipped on ebay these days.
post #1620 of 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Hi, are you talking about the BDP-93 as being capable of this? If that's your question it is. Or do you mean another brand? In pretty sure this is standard on most brands nowadays. If money is your main concern IMO I'd rather try and get a used good Oppo than a lower quality new player. Just my preference.

I was compare the 2012 Samsung BD-E5900 to the 2013 BD-F5900 (The 2012 model doesn't do DTS-HD, the 2013 does).

The Oppo's are probably out of my budget...

I was just curious if it's possible to do what I described above (send the DTS-HD audio bitstream to the AVR for decoding, if the bluray is not capable of decoding it)
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