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Samsung 750 Clouding Thread

post #1 of 40
6/18/08 at 8:18pm
Thread Starter 
This thread was not originated to bash the TV, as the vast majority of people love their Samsung 750, including myself. Instead, it was designed to give people who are thinking of purchasing, or who have purchased and don't know how severe their tv's clouding is compared to other people's 750s, some heads up so they can make an informed decision.

Bottom line, I do have clouding, and this tv would be near perfect if I did not, and although I wish the panel was more uniform, the issue is not a deal breaker for me. Of course, we all have our own opinions as to how much clouding is too much, so let the discussion begin. But please, in addition to the poll, explain the appearance of your clouding, where it shows up on the panel, and in what types of situatioins does it rear it's ugly head.

You may choose more than one option, so please vote in regards to the amount of clouding you have, and then to what situations it shows itself.
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post #2 of 40
6/18/08 at 8:37pm
Thread Starter 
My clouding starts as a large roundish cloud on the bottom right side of the screen (about 6-8 inches from the corner) then shoots an "arm" of clouds a few inches thick up to the left hand side of the screen, ending near the top. The "arm" is rarely seen, unless the screen is totally black (and in a darkened room of course) but the large cloud at the bottom is almost always seen to some extent in a darkened scene and dark room. All in all, it is annoying, but it does take the right scenes to actually see it during movie playback.
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post #3 of 40
6/18/08 at 8:47pm
I actually don't think I have clouding, at least not from what I've seen, though at the same time most LCDs can't be completely uniform either, so I must be missing something.

I voted for not having any though.

Could you possibly post a pic of your clouding (or someone's) just to use a reference. I'm sure it's an odd picture to take in a completely dark room with a dark screen, and no flash though. . .
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post #4 of 40
6/18/08 at 8:59pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kokobucks View Post

I actually don't think I have clouding, at least not from what I've seen, though at the same time most LCDs can't be completely uniform either, so I must be missing something.

I voted for not having any though.

Could you possibly post a pic of your clouding (or someone's) just to use a reference. I'm sure it's an odd picture to take in a completely dark room with a dark screen, and no flash though. . .

I am on the road right now, but when I get home I will see if I can get one together. I think there are quite a few posted in the 650 thread. By a completely uniform panel, basically what is meant is that when you look at a black screen on the tv in a darkened room, the panel pretty much looks uniform. Yes, it will be lighter than the bezel but the black/grey is a uniform black/grey. No obviously lighter areas in the panel. Some people may have slight mura or clouding and not really notice it because the difference between the overall brightness of the panel is not that great, nor significant. In that case, I would say your panel is uniform. In other words, while it may show up on some sort of meter, it is not clearly detectable with the human eye. What we are concerned with here is noticeably lighter areas on the panel, i.e. flashlights or clouds, that can be seen while watching movies/tv depending on the circumstances.
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post #5 of 40
6/18/08 at 9:22pm
LCD screen cannot be perfectly dark and neither can any screen with decent brightness. There will always be some bleed or the signal not sending a 0 value for luminance. Comparing my 750 to my previous rear projection TV, black levels are similar and fairly consistent. I have never seen a perfect black screen on any set.

That said unless you are looking hard for clouds/flashlights, you won't notice them on this set as the black level is pretty deep even in a darkened room. This set has a very good light range.
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post #6 of 40
6/18/08 at 9:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by miniskunk View Post

LCD screen cannot be perfectly dark and neither can any screen with decent brightness. There will always be some bleed or the signal not sending a 0 value for luminance. Comparing my 750 to my previous rear projection TV, black levels are similar and fairly consistent. I have never seen a perfect black screen on any set.

That said unless you are looking hard for clouds/flashlights, you won't notice them on this set as the black level is pretty deep even in a darkened room. This set has a very good light range.

Actually, IMO the great black level makes the clouding stand out even more. I have a mild flashlight in the upper right, a minor flashlight in the upper left, and some clouds in the lower mid right area, mabye 10" in diameter.
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post #7 of 40
6/18/08 at 11:04pm
I can say that after coming from 5 different Sony sets (32XBR6, 3x40V4100, and a 40W4100) that my set shows absolutely no clouding or flashlights. That extra $800 has paid off (I guess, lets just hope that the price falls locally during my 90 day price matching window).
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post #8 of 40
6/19/08 at 5:21am
I have a mild flashlight in the upper right, no clouding.
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post #9 of 40
6/19/08 at 6:17am
If there were an option for less than 2% I would have chosen that. So I selected less than 25%. To say that any LCD is completely uniform (IMO) would be technically impossible. My 46750 is as perfect as any LCD I've seen. Super quality, more uniform that the XBR I returned because of the humming noise!
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post #10 of 40
6/19/08 at 7:26am
I'm not sure if it's clouding though, because I only see them at extreme angles either to the left or right, but if I'm watching straight on, the screen shows excellent uniformity. My previous set had darker center and brighter on the left and right areas.
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post #11 of 40
6/19/08 at 10:04am
Studad, how do i tell if i have clouding (maybe just asking is proof i have none?) do i need to pop in a dvd with solid blacks and solid whites? or would i "just see it" looking at the screen...
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post #12 of 40
6/19/08 at 11:37am
can someone provide a pick of the clouding?

i want to purchase this tv within the next 4 weeks but i want to know if this will be the deal breaker
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post #13 of 40
6/19/08 at 11:53am
I chose uniform screen because even with a black screen in a black room they are very hard to see. Now when I first got my TV they were obvious but have basically gone away.

Love my TV and wouldn't trade it in no matter what.

Mosh~~
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post #14 of 40
6/19/08 at 2:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by miniskunk View Post

LCD screen cannot be perfectly dark and neither can any screen with decent brightness. There will always be some bleed or the signal not sending a 0 value for luminance. Comparing my 750 to my previous rear projection TV, black levels are similar and fairly consistent. I have never seen a perfect black screen on any set.

That said unless you are looking hard for clouds/flashlights, you won't notice them on this set as the black level is pretty deep even in a darkened room. This set has a very good light range.

I don't know about that. My 71 has no clouds at all. At least as far as I can see. I looked at it in a completely dark room with nothing on the screen. No clouds at all, and no flashlights. That's one of the things that made is so hard for me to decide on having Samsung swap it for a 750. In the end, not being able to use AMP on the 71 won out, and my new 750 is being delivered Saturday evening.
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post #15 of 40
6/19/08 at 5:15pm
Thread Starter 
For those of you wondering what clouding/flashlights look like, here is a link to the 650 clouding thread. There are several examples just on the first page. You can also go to the 650 owners thread and find links to other examples in the first post, under the Clouding section. It looks like most of these people took pictures on a blue screen, but a black screen should show it even more.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1018338
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post #16 of 40
6/19/08 at 5:17pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsntree View Post

Studad, how do i tell if i have clouding (maybe just asking is proof i have none?) do i need to pop in a dvd with solid blacks and solid whites? or would i "just see it" looking at the screen...

the easiest way to do it is to wait until evening, make sure the room is dark, then switch to a channel you don't get, i.e. it should have a black background (hopefully not just static). If you have them, you will see them. you will get the same thing with a dvd as long as you have a black background.
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post #17 of 40
6/19/08 at 5:29pm
this is a wierd poll, i think every lcd has clouding thats jmo.
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post #18 of 40
6/19/08 at 9:23pm
Mine doesn't?
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post #19 of 40
6/19/08 at 11:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by studdad View Post

For those of you wondering what clouding/flashlights look like, here is a link to the 650 clouding thread. There are several examples just on the first page. You can also go to the 650 owners thread and find links to other examples in the first post, under the Clouding section. It looks like most of these people took pictures on a blue screen, but a black screen should show it even more.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1018338

I definitely don't have anything like that on my screen. . .

Thanks for the link to pictures.
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post #20 of 40
6/20/08 at 12:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by miniskunk View Post

LCD screen cannot be perfectly dark and neither can any screen with decent brightness. There will always be some bleed or the signal not sending a 0 value for luminance. Comparing my 750 to my previous rear projection TV, black levels are similar and fairly consistent. I have never seen a perfect black screen on any set.

That said unless you are looking hard for clouds/flashlights, you won't notice them on this set as the black level is pretty deep even in a darkened room. This set has a very good light range.

i beg to differ i have the 81 series and the screen is perfectly pitch black, the tv looks as if it turned off in between scenes.
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post #21 of 40
6/20/08 at 2:40am
@ studdad - interesting thread but I believe you have one key response option missing.

"I have minor clouding but it is not visible when there is a source displayed even in the darkest of scenes".

This is important as personally I find this level of non-intrusive clouding somewhat acceptable if you can only see it on a blank screen with no source.

If I had a TV where clouds / flashlights could be seen with a source playing, I'd swap it out immediately.
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post #22 of 40
6/20/08 at 10:34am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeanosMagicHat View Post

@ studdad - interesting thread but I believe you have one key response option missing.

"I have minor clouding but it is not visible when there is a source displayed even in the darkest of scenes".

This is important as personally I find this level of non-intrusive clouding somewhat acceptable if you can only see it on a blank screen with no source.

If I had a TV where clouds / flashlights could be seen with a source playing, I'd swap it out immediately.

I agree, but unfortunately, I cannot change the poll once it is set up. One thing I will say, if you drop your backlight at night, it will greatly help with clouding. Last night my wife and I watched Underworld on BD again. I just love that movie. Anyway, as most of you know, it is a pretty dark movie, and has many very dark scenes. It was light out when we started the movie, and no clouds. As night approached, I started to notice some. I turned the BL down from 6 to 3 and the clouds pretty much went away for all significant purposes. I liked it best at 3, but could have easily turned it down to 2 or even 1 and still enjoyed the movie without it being too dark.
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post #23 of 40
6/20/08 at 10:53pm
Thread Starter 
I again watched a show with lots of dark scenes tonight with backlight at 3. Again, the clouds were pretty much not visible, and the picture looked much better than a higher backlight setting. I would highly recommend lowering your backlight if anyone has clouds,,,,or even if you don't. A lowered backlight at night tones down the glare and really improves the colors and detail.
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post #24 of 40
6/21/08 at 9:57pm
I got my TV today and did the clouding test. I loaded a black image onto a USB drive, plugged it in and looked. I see some spots where the black is slightly less black than other areas, and one area that could possibly be a cloud. If it is a cloud, it's very dim. I set my backlight to 5, because 3 was just too dim for me on brighter scenes. I watched the second to last episode of lost. In the scene where the weird guy that never gets old came to visit young locke and show him all the stuff, I noticed some very slight clouding when the background was the dark brown table. I noticed this in the same place where I might have the cloud (top right).

I'm waiting to vote in the poll, because I've heard people say that with time, their clouds sometimes fade. But honestly, even if this doesn't fade, it's barely noticable on black scenes and in a couple of weeks, I probably won't see it at all, even if it is there.

I do see the halo effect though. Especially with the lights out. As lame as this sounds, I actually kind of think it's neat. I can see how some people find it distracting, but it doesn't distract me at all. It's definitely a design flaw, though if this is the biggest design flaw this TV has, I'm miles ahead from where I was with my 71. I had AMP on medium with no TBE and no STUTTER.

So in spite of the slight clouding and halo, I'm very pleased with my TV.
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post #25 of 40
6/22/08 at 4:59am
After having the TV for a couple of days I thought I would post my observations. I do have clouding. Thought it would be bother me but in watching a movie last night it really did. I left side of the screen from top to bottom is clouded - it extends about 10 inches or so to the right. very annoying in movies as the blacks are not black on that side of the screen. Going to give it some time. No idea if I have any way to address this as this was an exchange from Samsung for another defective TV.
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post #26 of 40
6/22/08 at 10:00am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by usmaak View Post

I got my TV today and did the clouding test. I loaded a black image onto a USB drive, plugged it in and looked. I see some spots where the black is slightly less black than other areas, and one area that could possibly be a cloud. If it is a cloud, it's very dim. I set my backlight to 5, because 3 was just too dim for me on brighter scenes. I watched the second to last episode of lost. In the scene where the weird guy that never gets old came to visit young locke and show him all the stuff, I noticed some very slight clouding when the background was the dark brown table. I noticed this in the same place where I might have the cloud (top right).

I'm waiting to vote in the poll, because I've heard people say that with time, their clouds sometimes fade. But honestly, even if this doesn't fade, it's barely noticable on black scenes and in a couple of weeks, I probably won't see it at all, even if it is there.

I do see the halo effect though. Especially with the lights out. As lame as this sounds, I actually kind of think it's neat. I can see how some people find it distracting, but it doesn't distract me at all. It's definitely a design flaw, though if this is the biggest design flaw this TV has, I'm miles ahead from where I was with my 71. I had AMP on medium with no TBE and no STUTTER.

So in spite of the slight clouding and halo, I'm very pleased with my TV.

Congrats bud, was it even too dark on 3 when you were in a darkened room? I agree, 3 is too dark during the day, but great on my tv at night. Oh, I do have dynamic contrast set to Low so maybe that gives me a little more punch at night.
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post #27 of 40
6/22/08 at 10:04am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squigs View Post

After having the TV for a couple of days I thought I would post my observations. I do have clouding. Thought it would be bother me but in watching a movie last night it really did. I left side of the screen from top to bottom is clouded - it extends about 10 inches or so to the right. very annoying in movies as the blacks are not black on that side of the screen. Going to give it some time. No idea if I have any way to address this as this was an exchange from Samsung for another defective TV.

Yeah, play around with your backlight a little at night and see if that helps. You might also lower your contrast setting to 88 or lower and see if that helps. It almost sounds like you may have a pillar on the side. If so, then lowering the contrast setting can help that, as well as lowering brightness. Just as a guideline, I do have dynamic contrast on Low, but I have the regular contrast setting to 87, brightness to 41 and backlight to 3 at night, and 5/6 during the day. I think dynanmic contrast deepens the blacks and brightens the whites, which seems to help with clouding, but for some reason the regular contrast setting seems to have the opposite effect on clouds, particularly if you have pillars.
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post #28 of 40
6/22/08 at 10:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by studdad View Post

Congrats bud, was it even too dark on 3 when you were in a darkened room? I agree, 3 is too dark during the day, but great on my tv at night. Oh, I do have dynamic contrast set to Low so maybe that gives me a little more punch at night.

Just a little too dark at night. But then again, I was adjusting it down from 10, so it's possible I just needed some time to adjust to it being less bright.

As most of my TV viewing will be in a semi well lit room, I'll probably stick with 5, and adjust downward if it proves to be too bright. It's very rare that I watch TV with all the lights out. And I'm less likely to watch it that way with no cool blue light like the 71 had.

And the funny thing about the halo. If Samsung had just changed their design a little bit and made it black on the inside of the clear frame, it wouldn't be an issue. And it wouldn't have detracted from the design at all.
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post #29 of 40
6/22/08 at 7:02pm
It was pretty easy to see and now it seems significantly less so. Could it be that it just gets better on it's own????
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post #30 of 40
6/22/08 at 10:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

It was pretty easy to see and now it seems significantly less so. Could it be that it just gets better on it's own????

Thats what I am thinking. Mine was pretty bright at first, but has diminished. I can still see it, but usually have to be looking for it. Hopefully will completely fade away.
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