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Constant Height Questions from Germany ;)

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
Hello together,

my name is Karol and I'm writing this post from germany. I have to apologize for my bad english, but since my a-levels in english, 7 years have passed

I'm using an EPSON EMP-TW 700 Beamer with a playstation 3 (firmware v2.35) for dvds & bluray discs on a 16:9 screen (2m image-broadness).
Projection distance: 3.5m.

I'm tired of these black bars above and under the movie while watching a dvd or bluray disc with an aspect ratio of 21:9 oder even 22:9.
So, my question is how to stretch the picture for full panel height? Does the playstation 3 has any possibility for doing this job?
I know, that the beamer itself is NOT able for stretching the picture on full panel height. So, what should i do?
Should i use a HTPC? Or would it be better, if i buy a full hd projector like the Panasonic PT-AE2000, which is a able to stretch the picture for full panel height by using his on-board functions?

I already asked this question in several german forums, but unfortunately, nobody seems to be interested in realizing a 21:9 cinema.
So, you're my last hope
THX.
post #2 of 25
I wish PS3 would do this job but I do not expect Sony to implement anamorphic stretch in PS3. No, PS3 cannot do this and also do not expect PS3 to do this either.

If you have PC know-how, HTPC is a possibility. Alternatively, a projector with anamorphic stretch or an external scaler would do this job.

The best method is to have anamorphically stretched blu-rays for 2:35:1 movies but it is only a dream.

Welcome to the forum
post #3 of 25
Thread Starter 
Hi syncguy,

thank you for your quick answer I already worried that the ps3 is not able to realize an anamorphic stretch function
But i still hope, that sony's management will give their OK for such a function for the next firmware revisions.
Yeah PC know-how is available But is it possible to create a htpc with a low power consumption? Or at least with a power consumption of a ps3 40GB (approximately 110W)?
Beside that: Which projector or scaler would you recommend?

Thanks, I think that i'll feel pretty good here in this forum
post #4 of 25
Many new projectors have built-in anamorphic stretch including Panasonic AE2000 and Sony VW60. You need to do more research on projectors before choosing one since there are many factors to consider in addition to the stretch function. Check in the AVS projectors section. There are many scalers as well. Check in the appropriate area in AVS. Just a link fyi:
http://www.gefen.com/pdf/EXT-HOMETS.pdf

Since Sony differentiate projectors with anamorphic stretch, e.g. VW40 versus VW60, it is unlikely that they would implement this feature in PS3 unless there is competition from other blu-ray players.
post #5 of 25
Thread Starter 
Ok syncguy, i'll check the avs projectors section to get more knowledge about certain projectors.

I always believed that it was sufficient, to owe a projector which offers a stretch function. Of course, i could buy a speciel scaler, but these are expensive in relation to a new 1080p projector with anamorphic stretch function.
I know that it's not so easy to build a DIY anamorphot, but i'll try, and beside that, i've found a lot of instructions for this case.
post #6 of 25
I think the OP wants something that gets rid of the black bars on top and bottom of a scope movei and not actual CIH. A zoom function I guess would work.
Remember, if you get rid of the black bars you chop off the sides also.
see here: http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/764
post #7 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

I think the OP wants something that gets rid of the black bars on top and bottom of a scope movei and not actual CIH. A zoom function I guess would work.
Remember, if you get rid of the black bars you chop off the sides also.
see here: http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/764

Yes, possibly.

OP: If you are stretching the image to full panel height using anamorphic stretch (rather than zoom), you will need an anamorphic lens (in front of the projector lens) to unstretch the image to fit on to a 2.35:1 scope screen.
post #8 of 25
Thread Starter 
Hi shamus & syncguy,

yes i would like to unstretch the image with an anamorphic lens to fit with a DIY 22:9 screen. I've also read a lot of facts about a DIY anamorphic lens ( especially in the french DIY thread http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/v...d=a&start=2490 )
My problem was, how to stretch the image on the projector lcds. The Epson EMP-TW 700 projector doesn't support this function, unfortunately. So therefore i'm aksing me, if it would be better to buy a HTPC or to switch to the Panasonic PT-AX200 projector, who is capable of the v-stretch function.
post #9 of 25
I would vote for a new PJ with v-stretch. There are issues with HI-Def on HTPC's and just HTPC issues in general. Seems much easier to get a new PJ, and that newer PJ will likely be better in other image areas anyway - double bonus for you.
post #10 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Widlarizer View Post

Hi shamus & syncguy,

yes i would like to unstretch the image with an anamorphic lens to fit with a DIY 22:9 screen. I've also read a lot of facts about a DIY anamorphic lens ( especially in the french DIY thread http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/v...d=a&start=2490 )
My problem was, how to stretch the image on the projector lcds. The Epson EMP-TW 700 projector doesn't support this function, unfortunately. So therefore i'm aksing me, if it would be better to buy a HTPC or to switch to the Panasonic PT-AX200 projector, who is capable of the v-stretch function.

Ok, you threw me off cause your first post says you have a 16x9 screen. You have a 22x9 screen which I assume is a 2.35:1? Is this correct?
post #11 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by usualsuspects View Post

I would vote for a new PJ with v-stretch. There are issues with HI-Def on HTPC's and just HTPC issues in general. Seems much easier to get a new PJ, and that newer PJ will likely be better in other image areas anyway - double bonus for you.

I am agreeing with this. Sony VW60 when paired with PS3 produces an awesome breathtaking picture if you have good quality source material. I feel HTPC blu-ray still has rough edges to iron out. However, a HTPC enthusiast may feel otherwise and may jump in to assist. HTPC also has certain advantages especially you are in a non-US region.
post #12 of 25
Thread Starter 
@usualsuspects:
Your proposition sounds logical. This is certainly the easiest way and not so much expensive as i thought at first. It would be cheaper to realize a HTPC, but sooner or later, i'll switch anyway to a "better" projector.

@shamus:
Ok, sorry my first post may be a little bit confusing. Actually, i'm using a 16:9 Cinescreen V5 with the Epson EMP TW 700 (http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projek.../TW700Test.htm).
But now, i would like to bu a DIY 2.40:1 screen.

@syncguy:
The problem is, that the VW60 costs about 3200€ in germany, that's nearly 5000$.
Hmmmm, this is a little bit too expensive, at least i finished my studies next year
So i thought, that it would be a acceptable agreement to choose the Pana AX200 Projector which seems to work very good in a scope setup since i saw the gorgeous scope theater pictures in this forum.
What do you mean with "rough edges"? Do you have an example (e.g. an image)?
Yeah, i'm living in germany, although i was born in poland It's frustrating to see the many dvd and bluray releases and the prices as well. For example, in germany the price für "Blade Runner Final Cut" still is 30€ (46$). It's true, that the prices are falling down, but only very slow.

I'm thankful for your help and patience with my noob-like questions.
post #13 of 25
I don't really have anything to add, except that the OP shouldn't apologize for his English. It is better than many Americans that I interact with on a daily basis!
post #14 of 25
Thread Starter 
Hello Steve,

thank you very much, but i forgot so many translations of german words...well i try to express my cogitations as best as i'm able to do
Please adjust me, because i would like to improve my english very much.
post #15 of 25
Please I need some help: I have a SONY vpl vw60 and a SAMSUNG BD 1400, I use the anamorph strecth function in the SONY menu, and whoooa!!!!! what a surprise, where the damn subtitle are gone???? Can anybody tell me ?

thanks in advance
post #16 of 25
I have an AX200 and a DIY 2:37 screen. Although I actually have an anamorphic lens sitting in a box in my HT, I have been using the zoom method for the last two months to eliminate the black bars and it looks good. In fact if I did not already have then lens, I would not buy and just zoom. So even if you are temporarily strapped for cash, upgrade your PJ and then save for a good anamorphic lens.
post #17 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:


In fact if I did not already have then lens, I would not buy and just zoom.

Why? Why do you use the zoom methoed instead of the anamorphic lens?

The AX200 contains the anamorphic stretch function, doesn't it? It's called "Stretch-Vertical", right?
post #18 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian27 View Post

Please I need some help: I have a SONY vpl vw60 and a SAMSUNG BD 1400, I use the anamorph strecth function in the SONY menu, and whoooa!!!!! what a surprise, where the damn subtitle are gone???? Can anybody tell me ?

thanks in advance


On current blu-ray disks, the subtitles are hard coded on to a particular position in the picture and cannot be moved by the player. This is a big stuff-up by the blu-ray disk association. Many people have highlighted this problem in many threads in this forum as well as in the blui-ray forum. Still no amicable solution is given by the BDA. There are few ways of fixing this problem.

1. A crude, simple but an effective method is to include two subtitle tracks on the disk: one on the black bar and the other fully on the picture. This can be achieved at the authoring stage with negligible effort as it requires only few more clicks. (It is beyond me, why the disk authors and Studios have not thought about this possibility.)

2. Blu ray spec has an optional subtitle repositioning feature. To apply this feature, the subtitles should be included on the disk in text form in contrast to the conventional raster image based subtitles. Then the BD-J software can be used to reposition, resize etc. when the disk is played. Unfortunately, this feature does not work well due to implementation issues of BD-J on different players. (Probably this is due to the ambiguities of BD-J specification.) Sony once tried this method in Immortal Beloved but did not continue with it because this method could create subtitle problems in some players. I think still they are testing this.

3. Raster image based subtitles are used in DVDs and they can be moved by the DVD player by repositioning the subtitle raster image and super imposing it on to the video image. For example, TheaterTek software player can do this for DVDs. In principle, the same method can be applied to blu-ray to reposition raster image based subtitles. However, unfortunately, blu-ray has a protected video path to stop people poking in to the video stream. Therefore, the player manufacturers cannot implement this method (as it essentially interferes with the protected video path) unless the blu-ray disk association carries out necessary testing and develop a certified code (which requires money) to enable repositioning of the subtitle raster image.

4. Blu-ray also has the technical capability to download subtitles if that is provided by the Studio. When I inquired about this possibility from the blu-ray forum, I was told that the region protections and copyright ownerships in different regions could create issues if this method is used. Although it is technically possible, Studios may not use this method as a universal solution for subtitle repositioning.

As a temporary measure some people use image shift function of the projector to shift the image and resize with zooming to expose the lower black bar (yuck!) to read subtitles. This method negates the one of the key functions of CIH: i.e. removing the black bars!

Sony supports CIH by providing anamorphic stretch in their projectors. However, when one of their movies (e.g. Sony Pictures Saawariya) is played on their PS3, the subtitles cannot be read on one of their own projectors if their own anamorphic stretch mode is used. It appears like that they are selling equipment that is not fit for the purpose. I am not a legal expert but there could be legal ramifications as well because it appears like that they have misled the consumer. What a mess.

This problem is not limited to CIH'ers but also applies to blackbar-haters and zoomers as they are forced to watch black bars on subtitled movies.

More information can be found in these threads:


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=908791&page=3
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=901570&page=2
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=48166&page=12
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=52617
post #19 of 25
Tanks a lot, you really illustrated me, but is a shame we are limited ( using an anamorph lens), to watch movies only in our own languages, no more Indi or japanese or french or italian.... good cinema!!!
post #20 of 25
Thread Starter 
What components can be recommended, to realize a power-saving, silent HTPC for anamorph stretching? What kind of CPU, mainboard, memory, graphic card and so on?

I'm asking because several people told me how satisfied their are with a HTPC
post #21 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Widlarizer View Post

Why? Why do you use the zoom methoed instead of the anamorphic lens?

The AX200 contains the anamorphic stretch function, doesn't it? It's called "Stretch-Vertical", right?

No good reason. I have two little kids and have been crushingly busy at work, so I have not yet had time to integrate the lens. My point was only that if you are tight on cash, you upgrade the PJ and zoom until you save enough to get the lens.
post #22 of 25
I use the AX-100 with a lens and I love it. Click on the links below my name for pictures, screenshots etc. I have not found a need for an external scaler using this projector.

Regards,
Jeff
post #23 of 25
Thread Starter 
Nice setup congratulations.
I'm searching someone to trade his AX200 with my TW700.
But until now, nobody seems to be interested
post #24 of 25
Thread Starter 
Hello,

did anybody try to install ubuntu linux on a ps3 with the mplayer and FreeVo? A member from dvdboard.de told me, that mplayer is able to stretch dvds vertically for use with an anamorphic lens. I think that this a an interesting feature. Ok, it only seems to work with dvds until now...but i hope, that the bluray feature will be added in future.
Anyone heard something about mplayer, or is even using it?
post #25 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Widlarizer View Post

Hello,

did anybody try to install ubuntu linux on a ps3 with the mplayer and FreeVo? A member from dvdboard.de told me, that mplayer is able to stretch dvds vertically for use with an anamorphic lens. I think that this a an interesting feature. Ok, it only seems to work with dvds until now...but i hope, that the bluray feature will be added in future.
Anyone heard something about mplayer, or is even using it?

You may want to ask this question in the Linux HTPC forum.
____
Axel
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