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Official REL Subwoofer thread... - Page 7

post #181 of 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwkshift View Post

Do you have a budget in mind? The largest sealed sub at this time is the R-505 and they are available in Rosenut: http://www.sumikoaudio.net/rel/prod_r505.htm

Those are also at the same price point of the B3, though. http://www.sumikoaudio.net/rel/prod_b3.htm

Even an R305 will work nicely, if you're trying to conserve space.

Thanks room is pretty big though. Do the R505 if you can fit it.
post #182 of 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by redknag View Post

Ive got an issue with my Stentor III. Im using it with some Kef Reference 3.2's and Arcam Alpha 9 amps and its just too loud using the high level input. In a 2400 cu room with the x-over set to 30hz i can only have the high level volume set to 2 clicks (of 40) from minimum before it sounds too loud. This is on the unbalanced hi input which I think I should be using. If I swap it to the balanced hi imput I can turn it to 6 clicks from minimum, but this doesn't sound right.

Is there any way to reduce the high level sensitivity, as with only click 1,2 or 3 to play with I dont get much chance to adjust correctly? Any ideas?

Continue using the unbalanced input. Lower your x-over, that will give you more gain flexibility. I can't stress this enough as I read through this thread. The lower the x-over point you select, the higher the gain you can run. The higher the gain you run, the more extension you'll get, without additional bloom in the mid-bass because of the low x-over point.

Are you using an LFE input as well?
post #183 of 732
i am in the planning stage of building a bedroom system and am thinking about getting a REL T3 to mate with a pair of the new Harbeth P3's. i am confused as to the setup procedure of the REL's. i understand the logic of their setup if mating them to full range speakers. but the Harbeth's frequency range is 75hz to 20khz. to try to cross over a T3 around 25hz just does not make any sense, it should probably cross over closer to 80hz?
post #184 of 732
Thread Starter 
If you run your monitors at full-range, then the crossover point for the sub will be higher than 25Hz, but lower than 80Hz once your speakers are in room and set up properly. That crossover setting has some roll-off and isn't like an on/off switch. So first, set up your speakers in your room and get them dialed in, then you augment them with the T3 just as the instructions say to. After listening for a few days or even weeks, you may find that you need to make subtle changes to the level and crossover settings on the sub to fine tune it so that the system sounds "right". The instuctions will get you close, though.
post #185 of 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwkshift View Post

If you run your monitors at full-range, then the crossover point for the sub will be higher than 25Hz, but lower than 80Hz once your speakers are in room and set up properly. That crossover setting has some roll-off and isn't like an on/off switch. So first, set up your speakers in your room and get them dialed in, then you augment them with the T3 just as the instructions say to. After listening for a few days or even weeks, you may find that you need to make subtle changes to the level and crossover settings on the sub to fine tune it so that the system sounds "right". The instuctions will get you close, though.

Agreed.
post #186 of 732
For those of you familiar with automotive forums:

bump-bump

Anything new out there?
post #187 of 732
I had my REL T1 die on me a few months back. I called up Sumiko and after a bit of troubleshooting was able to send the amp in (some issues with my local dealer closing shop not withstanding) and got it fixed in about a week, even out of warranty. Great service from Sumiko, they were easy to talk to on the phone, helpful and actually called back like they said! It's been working like a champ since I got it back so no news is good news.
post #188 of 732
Thread Starter 
I'm awaiting the Gibraltar family....

I think I need one of those, now.
post #189 of 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwkshift View Post

I'm awaiting the Gibraltar family....

I think I need one of those, now.

drooling...

This guy is going to be sick. 12" Kevlar driver & 700 watts of glorious class A/B power...
post #190 of 732
Sumiko will be displaying a Sonus faber Stradivari/Audio Research system with, catch this, SIX Gibraltar G1s!!!!!! CES 2010, here I come!
post #191 of 732
Thread Starter 
That will not suck.
post #192 of 732
Hello, all:

I have just joined the site, although I have been involved in the audio equipment black hole, (primarily as an enthusiast) since 1972. I am presently using 2 Stadium IIIs on the front channels, (Maggie 3.6's w/Mye Sound stands) and have been using a Mirage sub on the rears.(Maggie 1.6s w/Mye Sound Stands) I wish to replace the Mirage sub, but do not know which series of Rel is most sonically similar to the Stadiums III's.Any suggestions?

Secondly, where will the Gibraltar series fit in the lineup?

Thanks,

Greg
post #193 of 732
Thread Starter 
From what I understand, the G Series will replace the B series this next year.

For your rear channel sub, have you looked at a B3?
post #194 of 732
I will check out the B3. Any thoughts on the Strata III?
post #195 of 732
I read posts in the AVS Rel Forum regarding possible damage to the B1 but I'm not sure how it might apply my system. I have my Anthem D2V connected to the Krell TAS using XRL cables. There are a balanced connections on the Anthem for 2 subs and I have the B1 just connected to Low Level to "Sub 1" on the Anthem. I would like to also connect the Anthem to the B1 High level input. Do I need to be concerned about damaging any of the components and would I use the Sub 2 connection on the Anthem or do it some other way? Do I need anything other than a regular balanced cable male on one end and female on the other? Thanks everone for any help you can give me.
post #196 of 732
Thread Starter 
To connect your B1 by the Hi Level SpeakOn connector, you would simply connect it to the L +R speaker terminals of your Krell amp.
post #197 of 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwkshift View Post

I'm awaiting the Gibraltar family....

Any news on the new REL Gibraltar subwoofers from CES 2010?
post #198 of 732
Thread Starter 
Not yet.
post #199 of 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwkshift View Post

Not yet.

What subwoofer is in the background? Looks like a REL;
http://blog.stereophile.com/ces2010/wien_wien/

This is the Stereophile blog from CES2010. This is from the Sumiko room.
post #200 of 732
Thread Starter 
Yeah, that's a G Series. I notice that they use the same feet as the R series. I sure hope the G series is at least as good as the B.

I like this finish:
post #201 of 732
Based on my limited experience, these won't have a problem outclassing the B-series!
post #202 of 732
Dave,

What makes you say so, what exactly is different and have you heard them in person?
post #203 of 732
Hi all
I am new in this thread, and I'm planning to buy a Rel SW, but first I need to solve some puzzles.
I have a mixed stereo and a HT system. The stereo part includes a Bat 600se amp, a BAT 51Se preamp and a Wadia player plus a VPI turntable. The speakers are full range Focal Alto Utopia Bes.
The HT system includes an Anthem D2v processor, a Theta multichannel amp and an Oppo blu-ray player.
When I listen to stereo the HT is turned off.
When I listen to HT and Multi Channel music the Bat pre is bypassed and the Bat amp is controlled by the Anthem processor.
I now have a low quality sub connected to the Anthem and operational only for HT.
For stereo and multich I used the bass of the Focal Alto Utopia Bes, the front speakers.

1) In this configuration, can I hook up the sub simultaneously to the stereo system and the multichannel one, taking into account that when I listen to stereo the HT system is turned off?

2) Do I have to take any special care with the BAT amp (differential/non-diff; balanced?)

3) According to what I read here, I could not hook up the 2nd balanced output of my Bat pre directly to the SW (there is no balanced input in the Rel); and I have to go directly through the amp connection. Am I right?

3) If my previous questions can be favorably answered, which REL sub will you recommend me for an approx. 3000 cubic feet room with double ceilings?
Many thanks in advance for your answers
post #204 of 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridom View Post

Hi all
I am new in this thread, and I'm planning to buy a Rel SW, but first I need to solve some puzzles.
I have a mixed stereo and a HT system. The stereo part includes a Bat 600se amp, a BAT 51Se preamp and a Wadia player plus a VPI turntable. The speakers are full range Focal Alto Utopia Bes.
The HT system includes an Anthem D2v processor, a Theta multichannel amp and an Oppo blu-ray player.
When I listen to stereo the HT is turned off.
When I listen to HT and Multi Channel music the Bat pre is bypassed and the Bat amp is controlled by the Anthem processor.
I now have a low quality sub connected to the Anthem and operational only for HT.
For stereo and multich I used the bass of the Focal Alto Utopia Bes, the front speakers.

1) In this configuration, can I hook up the sub simultaneously to the stereo system and the multichannel one, taking into account that when I listen to stereo the HT system is turned off?

2) Do I have to take any special care with the BAT amp (differential/non-diff; balanced?)

3) According to what I read here, I could not hook up the 2nd balanced output of my Bat pre directly to the SW (there is no balanced input in the Rel); and I have to go directly through the amp connection. Am I right?

3) If my previous questions can be favorably answered, which REL sub will you recommend me for an approx. 3000 cubic feet room with double ceilings?
Many thanks in advance for your answers


That is a pretty large room. What is your budget (I would say you'd need a pair of R505's and a B1 for the LFE)?
post #205 of 732
Although budget is a limit (as usual), my main concern is not to fill the room with more boxes, especially ugly ones. I am thinking on one more box that could reinforce the already good bass of the Utopias in music and can handle at the same time all the booms and scratchts from some movies. I will not go far beyond 4 grands (used or new) and do not want to buy a pooltable-sized unit. Thanks again
post #206 of 732
Thread Starter 
A pair of 505's and a B1 in a 3000cu.ft. room? Wow. My single B1 is incredible in my 8500cu.ft. room.

You have a lot of options expecially since you're looking at new and used. For new, you could look at a single B1 or a pair of B3's. You could also do a pair of R505's. (An R505 and a B3 are priced the same.) Myself, I'm a big fan of the B Series. The R series looks awesome, but I've had tremendous success with the B's in all sizes.
post #207 of 732
Agreed, and thanks, but my main concern still refers to the kind of connections I am able to perform to ensure the best outcome and flexibility
post #208 of 732
Having had my B3 for many months now I really need to propertly set it up as I am not liking the sound. I received invaluable assistance from kwkshift but still haven't been able to fine tune it.
I am no audiophile but I know when I don't like something which is the case right now. I have played with all the settings and while I can make the sound boomy or thin I can never make it acceptable. I had zero problems of setting up my old subwoofer. It was a case of plug it in, turn the dial to 10 o'clock set all speakers to small, set subwoofer output to sw only, set crossover to 80hz, connect the mic & run the wizard. I would then turn the dial and rerun the wizard until it said subwoofer level +0db (I didn't have to do the last part but I'm anal).
What I need from you is to tell me the correct settings on both amp & sw.

1) I have connected the low level input (0db instead of +12db) to the lfe output of my amp. I see that for any useful bass the dial is close or after 12 o'clock. Is this what you're getting?

2) I have also connected the high level unbalanced input to the the front speaker outputs. My floorstanding front speakers say that they go down to 40hz at -3db at a <15deg angle so I guess they should be good for 80hz. The dial is again turned at or after 12 o'clock.

3) The mode selector is on 2 which is LFE 0 phase.

4) The roll off is set to D3 which is 78hz (close to 80hz? that's why I'm using it). I don't understand where this should be in relevance to the receivers crossover. If you can explain the cutoff/octave thingy even better. I notice A1 has the least bass of all and D6 booms badly with everything else in between.

5) Receiver has settings for all speakers, SMALL or LARGE.

6) Receiver can send lfe (I think) to SW, SPEAKERS or BOTH.

7) Receiver can set crossover. I keep this at 80hz, I believe it is the "standard" it says THX as well.

8) Running the mic wizard with this subwoofer is very confusing to me. Turning the high level dial the wizard results don't change but the difference in bass output is from no bass to full bass. It is like the wizard cares only for the low level input.
The wizard must not like this subwoofer much. It compensates by +5dbs for example and I have to turn the dial to 12 o'clock. Not a problem before with my old subwoofer.

9) If I set the speakers to small and lfe to subwoofer the speakers sound really thin and underutilized. I much prefer the sound with them when set to large. The sound is fuller. With my previous setup I was happy with small as well.

10) My receiver has a setting to bypass all processing (audio/video) and when I press this, music sounds much tighter and the boominess is gone. Same for normal tv viewing. This means the subwoofer is not setup correctly.

11) Is there any way to make my subwoofer sound really strong & tight but not boomy?

If you can list the correct settings I'd appreciate it. I find myself during a movie having to adjust the sw dial as the volume is somethimes very intrusive & annoying and at other times very lacking.

EDIT: I also have the radioshack analogue meter and a couple of test disks if it's of any use.
post #209 of 732
My Custom T3 Cherry Sub Cable


LL
post #210 of 732
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 720p View Post

Having had my B3 for many months now I really need to propertly set it up as I am not liking the sound. I received invaluable assistance from kwkshift but still haven't been able to fine tune it.
I am no audiophile but I know when I don't like something which is the case right now. I have played with all the settings and while I can make the sound boomy or thin I can never make it acceptable. I had zero problems of setting up my old subwoofer. It was a case of plug it in, turn the dial to 10 o'clock set all speakers to small, set subwoofer output to sw only, set crossover to 80hz, connect the mic & run the wizard. I would then turn the dial and rerun the wizard until it said subwoofer level +0db (I didn't have to do the last part but I'm anal).
What I need from you is to tell me the correct settings on both amp & sw.

1) I have connected the low level input (0db instead of +12db) to the lfe output of my amp. I see that for any useful bass the dial is close or after 12 o'clock. Is this what you're getting?

2) I have also connected the high level unbalanced input to the the front speaker outputs. My floorstanding front speakers say that they go down to 40hz at -3db at a <15deg angle so I guess they should be good for 80hz. The dial is again turned at or after 12 o'clock.

3) The mode selector is on 2 which is LFE 0 phase.

4) The roll off is set to D3 which is 78hz (close to 80hz? that's why I'm using it). I don't understand where this should be in relevance to the receivers crossover. If you can explain the cutoff/octave thingy even better. I notice A1 has the least bass of all and D6 booms badly with everything else in between.

5) Receiver has settings for all speakers, SMALL or LARGE.

6) Receiver can send lfe (I think) to SW, SPEAKERS or BOTH.

7) Receiver can set crossover. I keep this at 80hz, I believe it is the "standard" it says THX as well.

8) Running the mic wizard with this subwoofer is very confusing to me. Turning the high level dial the wizard results don't change but the difference in bass output is from no bass to full bass. It is like the wizard cares only for the low level input.
The wizard must not like this subwoofer much. It compensates by +5dbs for example and I have to turn the dial to 12 o'clock. Not a problem before with my old subwoofer.

9) If I set the speakers to small and lfe to subwoofer the speakers sound really thin and underutilized. I much prefer the sound with them when set to large. The sound is fuller. With my previous setup I was happy with small as well.

10) My receiver has a setting to bypass all processing (audio/video) and when I press this, music sounds much tighter and the boominess is gone. Same for normal tv viewing. This means the subwoofer is not setup correctly.

11) Is there any way to make my subwoofer sound really strong & tight but not boomy?

If you can list the correct settings I'd appreciate it. I find myself during a movie having to adjust the sw dial as the volume is somethimes very intrusive & annoying and at other times very lacking.

EDIT: I also have the radioshack analogue meter and a couple of test disks if it's of any use.

It sounds like you have conflicting settings in your setup.

1) I think that the gain settings on the sub are relative to your setup and could easily change just by moving the sub to a different corner of your room, different position in any corner of you room, etc. (Actually, all of the settings are like that. Each location around your room will require a completely new setup.)

2) If you are going to use the high-level input, the speakers must be set as Large/ Full Range/ whatever in your processor.

3) The phase setting is dependant upon your room and the subs position in the room. It just has to be set so it reinforces the bass of your mains, rather than working agianst them, canceling bass.

4) See #2.

5) See #2.

6) LFE to Subwoofer.

7) See #2.

8) See #2. Once your mains are set to Large, (and everything else in the subwoofer setup process is complete), the setup mic wizard will perceive your mains as a full-range set. It should then only send your LFE info to the low-level input of the sub.

9) See #2. You kind-of answered your own question, here. If it sound better with them set to Large, then even though it may not be perfect, you're on the right track. You just have to fine tune everything.

10) Correct.

11) Yes. My suggestion is to start over from square 1. Turn off that 80Hz, stuff, run the mains as large, etc. You have to follow the setup in the owners manual for the B3 step-by-step, in the order they say. If you start off setting the gains, then play with settings in the proc., then jump back to the phase setting on the sub, etc., you're going to be so far out in left field, it's just going to be one big knotted mess. I know they are more complicated to setup than other subs, but just work through it and you'll be happy. Keep in mind what the sub is designed to do: It's doing 2 things at once. It's basically turning your mains into a full-range set of towers and it's processing your LFE bass for movies. You may have to think of it like 2 subs in one unit.

Look on the bright side....once you get this all dialed in, you can move it to another corner of the room and start all over again to try finding the perfect location for your room/ setup. I did that with my B1 after a few months. I just wrote down my sub settings that I could revert back to if it didn't work out. But, I found that the opposite front corner of my room was better than the first location. I'm glad I decided to experiment!
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