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Official REL Subwoofer thread... - Page 9

post #241 of 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyV View Post

First of all, I do not have this REL connected to an AVR or HT so everything you stated in that post does not apply to my setup at all. Also I do not need an explanation on how bass management/speaker setup works in a HT system but thanks anyway. I have a 5.1 HT setup in another room of my house and do all configurations myself, no Auto setup.

Suggesting I am imagining what I am hearing is really a convenient and arrogant reply. You were not here listening to my A/B test so I do not put much stock in how my system sounds to you from the chair behind your computer. Thanks.

I do welcome helpful responses though and I am new to REL Sub-Bass Systems. I thought I was clear in my previous posts but the system where my REL is connected is "a music 2.1 setup". What I was wondering was if "anyone here with a 2ch setup" has utilized both the Speakon and LFE input together. It is very possible the majority of REL owners here have never even thought to connect both inputs either to compare the sound of each individual one or to hear how they both sounded together in a 2ch setup. I just happen to be one of those A/V enthusiasts who likes to test every possible configuration myself to determine what I think is the best.

I definitely hear a difference between the two types connections. I prefer the Speakon if I had to pick only one but because of how the Speakon hooks directly to the binding posts on the amp, it leaves the low level outputs open for the more traditional sub connection to be hooked up as well. I suggest REL owners with a 2ch rig to run a cable from your low level outputs and compare them individually and then together to experience it for yourself and form your own opinion. I would be interested to hear what others opinion is.

Depending on what equipment you have, you may need a Y adapter if your only option is regular stereo pre outs. My preamp has summed mono sub outputs so it is easy for me to connect it both ways with a standard single RCA cable.

Never said you did, but I am pretty familiar with your preamp and know a thing or two about the REL "sub bass system", which to be honest, isn't exactly all that different from utilizing the hi level connections on the back of a sub.

As to your comment about "listening from behind my computer", was a good one, but subwoofers aren't a mystery nor is sound reproduction. Using a speakon or the LFE connection shouldn't/won't have any variance in the subwoofers extension capabilities as both connections are just passing the signal. If you use the sub preout on the back the 2100 and set the xover to say 60, then that is what is being sent to the sub, no different if you were to use the xover on the back of the REL with the speakon.

Lot of great designers and engineers in the DIY portion of this site with quite a few highly respected manufacturers represented there as well. If you have a moment, I recommend taking a stroll through there and maybe even ask some questions or start a thread here the subwoofer forum so you'll get more feedback on your questions.
post #242 of 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyV View Post

I do welcome helpful responses though and I am new to REL Sub-Bass Systems. I thought I was clear in my previous posts but the system where my REL is connected is "a music 2.1 setup". What I was wondering was if "anyone here with a 2ch setup" has utilized both the Speakon and LFE input together. It is very possible the majority of REL owners here have never even thought to connect both inputs either to compare the sound of each individual one or to hear how they both sounded together in a 2ch setup. I just happen to be one of those A/V enthusiasts who likes to test every possible configuration myself to determine what I think is the best.

I definitely hear a difference between the two types connections. I prefer the Speakon if I had to pick only one but because of how the Speakon hooks directly to the binding posts on the amp, it leaves the low level outputs open for the more traditional sub connection to be hooked up as well. I suggest REL owners with a 2ch rig to run a cable from your low level outputs and compare them individually and then together to experience it for yourself and form your own opinion. I would be interested to hear what others opinion is.

Depending on what equipment you have, you may need a Y adapter if your only option is regular stereo pre outs. My preamp has summed mono sub outputs so it is easy for me to connect it both ways with a standard single RCA cable.

Hi, Tommy. I'd like to chime in here since I'm running pretty much the same 2.1 setup as you. Actually, I use two T3's with my B&W 685 bookshelves, so is that a 2.2 setup?

Initially, I started off with one T3 for several months and was very impressed with how well it integrated with the 685's. Then I decided to find out what two of these subs would sound like in a mono configuration (yes, red+yellow). I tell you, man, the balance is incredible. It's just an absolute seamless blend with the speakers; the subs just "disappear" and it's like listening to a pair of full-range speakers.

With music, I almost exclusively use the Speakon high level connection on the T3's. I have the 685's set to "large" so it can play all the way down to its capabilities (claimed 50Hz), while the T3's are dialed in at what I estimate to be around 60Hz. I forgot how many "clicks" this is, but this particular setting sounds to be the best for my room/setup. It's a very smooth blend, as the subs pick up where the the 685's start to roll off.

The high level speakon connection is the reason I purchased this REL sub. I use an ONKYO TX-SR805 receiver as a pre-pro with a Rotel RMB-1080 amp. The 805 has a "Pure Audio" function which disables the video circuitry and audio processing, passing only what the source (OPPO BDP-83) sends it. With the least amount of processing, to my ears this sounds the best in my setup. Since most Redbook CD's are 2.0 recordings, a subwoofer connected via low level/LFE with "Pure Audio" enabled on the pre-pro would be rendered mute. Ah, but enter REL's high level connection and I now get deeper, tighter extension with the system in glorious "Pure Audio"! I just love my simple setup.

As far as using BOTH high level and LFE at the same time - yes, I do this with a couple scenarios: watching movies and listening to a 5.1 encoded CD and hi-res bluray audio-only disc. I only have a 2ch setup, so all the other channels are down-mixed to the front L&R. Since I'm 95% music and 5% movies, I don't mind not having a multichannel system (of course, an upgrade is in the plans. Upgrades are always in the plans, aren't they?). In these scenarios, I still enable the "Pure Audio" function on the ONKYO for optimal sound. Since movies have a dedicated .1/LFE signal, the ONKYO passes it to the sub, in addition to the full range signal the high level connection is playing. Same thing with multichannel audio discs. Have you heard the 5.1 DTS CD of "Eagles: Hell Freezes Over"? Wow. Also, have you heard any of 2L's DTS-MA recordings on bluray audio-only? Wower! These little T3's are a wonderful addition to my system.
post #243 of 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwoo View Post

Hi, Tommy. I'd like to chime in here since I'm running pretty much the same 2.1 setup as you. Actually, I use two T3's with my B&W 685 bookshelves, so is that a 2.2 setup?

Initially, I started off with one T3 for several months and was very impressed with how well it integrated with the 685's. Then I decided to find out what two of these subs would sound like in a mono configuration (yes, red+yellow). I tell you, man, the balance is incredible. It's just an absolute seamless blend with the speakers; the subs just "disappear" and it's like listening to a pair of full-range speakers.

With music, I almost exclusively use the Speakon high level connection on the T3's. I have the 685's set to "large" so it can play all the way down to its capabilities (claimed 50Hz), while the T3's are dialed in at what I estimate to be around 60Hz. I forgot how many "clicks" this is, but this particular setting sounds to be the best for my room/setup. It's a very smooth blend, as the subs pick up where the the 685's start to roll off.

The high level speakon connection is the reason I purchased this REL sub. I use an ONKYO TX-SR805 receiver as a pre-pro with a Rotel RMB-1080 amp. The 805 has a "Pure Audio" function which disables the video circuitry and audio processing, passing only what the source (OPPO BDP-83) sends it. With the least amount of processing, to my ears this sounds the best in my setup. Since most Redbook CD's are 2.0 recordings, a subwoofer connected via low level/LFE with "Pure Audio" enabled on the pre-pro would be rendered mute. Ah, but enter REL's high level connection and I now get deeper, tighter extension with the system in glorious "Pure Audio"! I just love my simple setup.

As far as using BOTH high level and LFE at the same time - yes, I do this with a couple scenarios: watching movies and listening to a 5.1 encoded CD and hi-res bluray audio-only disc. I only have a 2ch setup, so all the other channels are down-mixed to the front L&R. Since I'm 95% music and 5% movies, I don't mind not having a multichannel system (of course, an upgrade is in the plans. Upgrades are always in the plans, aren't they?). In these scenarios, I still enable the "Pure Audio" function on the ONKYO for optimal sound. Since movies have a dedicated .1/LFE signal, the ONKYO passes it to the sub, in addition to the full range signal the high level connection is playing. Same thing with multichannel audio discs. Have you heard the 5.1 DTS CD of "Eagles: Hell Freezes Over"? Wow. Also, have you heard any of 2L's DTS-MA recordings on bluray audio-only? Wower! These little T3's are a wonderful addition to my system.

Hey there

Yea sounds like a similar setup. I was thinking of adding a second T3 as well. I have been busy playing musical preamps trying to get the sound just right. I have now moved on from the parasound to a Rotel pre/pro that I am using as a preamp. I think it is superior to any of the other 2ch preamps I have tried. My amp is Rotel so I think the preamp being Rotel just gives me overall superior sound and better bass.

Since I have my preamp set to 2ch large with no sub I have abandoned the LFE output all together. It would probably be some kind of a/d d/a conversion I do not want added in there. My sub it dialed in perfect now and it is sounding better than ever. I am waiting to pickup a Rotel 1082 preamp but that may be a while (like you said upgrades are always in the plans )

I do not have those BDs you mentioned. The ones I have include a 2ch track and I tend to use that one over and multi channel tracks for my 2.1 setup. I am loving how well it came out. I added a Denon 3910 for all CD/DVD-A/SACD and it has really opened up that system. The analog sound is some of the best I have heard from a source and now I can play more formats. I even ordered a nice media cabinet for all my music so I can move it down into that room.

Gotta love it.
post #244 of 732
Any news on the upcoming Gibraltar series subwoofers? There is still very litte information on the internet about them...
post #245 of 732
Thread Starter 
I spoke to Sumiko about the G Series and they explained to me that REL is in the process of building the cabinets and they have moved the projected release date out until Fall.
post #246 of 732
Can I go sub woofer output of my preamp into the REL Hi-level balanced input ?

Can I simply use a speakon to 3-pin xlr male adapter and connect directly to my preamp xlr sub output?

I don't want to use the REL neutrik speakon cable and I don't need/want to use the RCA inputs on the REL B3.
post #247 of 732
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DallasJustice View Post

Can I go sub woofer output of my preamp into the REL Hi-level balanced input ?

Can I simply use a speakon to 3-pin xlr male adapter and connect directly to my preamp xlr sub output?

I don't want to use the REL neutrik speakon cable and I don't need/want to use the RCA inputs on the REL B3.


Why would you not want to use the neutrik connection the way it was designed?
post #248 of 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwkshift View Post

Why would you not want to use the neutrik connection the way it was designed?

Long story: I have a digital amp. I have the special REL digital amp cable correctly installed. I still get hum when i turn my amp off because of the REL cable. I just don't think my B3 works well with my digital amp, so i want to connect it to a preamp via xlr instead.
post #249 of 732
Thread Starter 
You might be able to try a XLR to RCA adapter cable. You could call Sumiko for further clarification, though.
post #250 of 732
can anyone tell me how to find a REL dealer in florida
post #251 of 732
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by manufanatic View Post

can anyone tell me how to find a REL dealer in florida


To find a local dealer, just give Sumiko a call @ 510-843-4500
post #252 of 732
Hey guys, I've been thinking the next upgrade in my system will probably be a pair of subwoofers to replace my current SVS SB12+. My system is a dual purpose currently but I'm more concerned with music & its quality of bass. I would probably like to keep to a pair of small sealed subs, like the 205 or 305's, as space will be a concern. The current room these will be in is small, around 1500cuft but will eventually go in abit larger room (maybe 2000-2500cuft). While I'm not looking for all out, foundation shacking output for HT it would be nice to see descent output & I'm hoping a pair of these R series might do the trick? The single SB12+ does an okay job for HT but the -3db is probably around 25hz according to my Anthem ARC charts for my room. I was wondering if anyone has any actual in room response graphs for either of these subs, either a single or pair? I did find one for a pair of 205's online & it looked like they played down to ~18hz, down -3db, which seemed very impressive for a small sealed sub. I know I'm asking for alot, but I'd like a smallish sub that also plays close to the 20hz mark 3db down as my towers play down to about 30hz 3db down & would like the last little bit.

I have yet to demo a REL but another sub I have had lots of experience is a setup with a pair of the Totem Storms (paired with the Forest towers). I have been very impressed with setup for music as it never seems boomy, has alot of punch & seem extremely quick. While their defently not an all out HT sub (8" driver, 2 8" PR's with 300watt amp), they actually do fairly well, except when things really dig down deep, which I've only experienced a handful of times out of the probably hundred movies I've watched on the setup. So if anyone has any comparisons with the Storms, I'd defently like to hear them.
post #253 of 732
Here is some testing results for the Rel R305: http://www.dvdplaza.fi/forums/showthread.php?t=50476
post #254 of 732
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by daren_p View Post

Hey guys, I've been thinking the next upgrade in my system will probably be a pair of subwoofers to replace my current SVS SB12+. My system is a dual purpose currently but I'm more concerned with music & its quality of bass. I would probably like to keep to a pair of small sealed subs, like the 205 or 305's, as space will be a concern. The current room these will be in is small, around 1500cuft but will eventually go in abit larger room (maybe 2000-2500cuft). While I'm not looking for all out, foundation shacking output for HT it would be nice to see descent output & I'm hoping a pair of these R series might do the trick? The single SB12+ does an okay job for HT but the -3db is probably around 25hz according to my Anthem ARC charts for my room. I was wondering if anyone has any actual in room response graphs for either of these subs, either a single or pair? I did find one for a pair of 205's online & it looked like they played down to ~18hz, down -3db, which seemed very impressive for a small sealed sub. I know I'm asking for alot, but I'd like a smallish sub that also plays close to the 20hz mark 3db down as my towers play down to about 30hz 3db down & would like the last little bit.

I have yet to demo a REL but another sub I have had lots of experience is a setup with a pair of the Totem Storms (paired with the Forest towers). I have been very impressed with setup for music as it never seems boomy, has alot of punch & seem extremely quick. While their defently not an all out HT sub (8" driver, 2 8" PR's with 300watt amp), they actually do fairly well, except when things really dig down deep, which I've only experienced a handful of times out of the probably hundred movies I've watched on the setup. So if anyone has any comparisons with the Storms, I'd defently like to hear them.

I really enjoy the R series for smaller rooms and for music listening. However, if you're looking at doing a pair, for the same cost, you could step into a single B series which I just love. Since the new Gibraltar series is coming out, there may be some excellent deals on the B series in the next few months.
post #255 of 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by InterestedUser View Post

Here is some testing results for the Rel R305: http://www.dvdplaza.fi/forums/showthread.php?t=50476

Thanks for the link, I have come across that page before, when I was looking for my last sub around a year ago. Some good info but for the small sealed subs, I don't think you can get a true picture of what the subs will actually do in a proper sized listening area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwkshift View Post

I really enjoy the R series for smaller rooms and for music listening. However, if you're looking at doing a pair, for the same cost, you could step into a single B series which I just love. Since the new Gibraltar series is coming out, there may be some excellent deals on the B series in the next few months.

For me, I think I'd rather do two small subs for this setup vs one large boxed sub. I have always found the bass uniformity of a proper dual sub setup to be better vs a single sub (well atleast that I've come across so far) & being in a smallish room & more interested in music & not foundation shaking bass, I think small duals is the way to go. Space will also be an issue, which is why I'd prefer two small boxes. I plan to eventually have a second setup thats more directed to HT & for that setup I'd defently go for two much larger enclosure subs & possibly ported as well.

For music the single SVS has more then enough output I just wish is would play abit lower. For HT it does pretty well in its small space but again, would be nice if it played abit lower. If a single SB12+ can keep me happy for output, I would think a pair of the 205's or 305's should do just as well, if not better? The main areas I would like to see a gain in is bass quality & abit more bottom end response. According to that link above the 305 played down to 23hz while the SB12+ was just under 28hz (-3db), measured outside.
post #256 of 732
I just picked up a rel q401 to add to my q201 and i must say it is amazing... i never thought the sound from the 401 would make my entire system sound better... Im using the 201 with the high level off the center speaker and the 401 running of the high level of the right and left per my sumiko training.. I was able to hear the g series sub and lemme tell you.. its bad ass!!
post #257 of 732
Hi Folks,

I am new here and need a hand making a decision. I have a REL R-305 with two class D Rotel Amps (7 channel for HT and 2 channel for Stereo). R-305 is connected to my pre-amp. Now I have two questions.

1. My room is very large and I think one sub doesn't do it. My dealer doesn't have any R series left but one T1 and one T2. Would a T1 sound right with my R-305? He is giving me a good price so I am very tempted to get the T1. Has anyone experience mixing the different series?

2. I read that the high-level connection with class D amps was only in some cases a problem and needed the special cable from Sumiko. Does anyone have experience with REL matched with Rotel class D amps? Was there any problem without the special cable? My dealer asks $200+ for ordering the cable. I think $400+ for two cables is a question worth.

Cheers

Jay
post #258 of 732
Thread Starter 
I wouldn't mix the family lines such as a T series and an R series. They are just too different. I would wait until another R series comes available. Or, step into a B1/ B2 and then, if you like, sell your R305 to offset the cost.

The Class D cable from REL isn't necessarily required. You can try and hook it up to your Rotel to see how it performs first. Then, you'll know if the special cable is required.

Also, if you were to step into a single B1/ B2, and you need the special cable, then that's $200 that you don't have to spend on the second cable.
post #259 of 732
Thanks for the reply. The dealer meant it wouldn't matter to mix them up So I will wait for another R-305 or maybe R-505 Or even a B1

Cheers
post #260 of 732
I am new here, and I would like to ask those with more experience. I have had Quad electrostatic speakers for the last 35 years, and I think they are glorious. My current set is a pair of 2805's, mostly used for stereo music. I have hesitated in the past about getting a subwoofer, but I am now becoming more serious about this. I have read a lot about the difficulties of matching subwoofers with electrostatics, but I have often read that REL's integrate relatively easily. So I was wondering if there are people here who have done this. My second question is a more mundane one of serious practical importance. In the REL manual I can read that placement should be near the corner of the room, usually a couple of inches out. How often does it need to be more than a couple of inches? I was thinking of the B2, and the room has an area of about 27x14 feet, and 10 feet high. Any views or experiences that you may wish to share with me?
Willem
post #261 of 732
Thread Starter 
Willem,

The B series or the ST series would be an excellent addition to your Quads. What really makes them easy to integrate is the way the crossovers work. Thanks to the coarse and fine adjustment knobs, in addition to the detailed instructions that help with proper placement, much more so than other manufacturers, really helps you nail down the setup so it's perfect for any system.

As far as placement, that's entirely dependent to your system and setup in your room. Everyones is different. However, usually the sub would sit no more than about a foot from the corner. You'll find that even moving the sub an inch will completely change how it performs. So, it's not like you'll be moving it a foot or two here, there and all over the place. After your initial setup, you'll find that after some listening you may want to make little tweaks to fine-tune the setup over the next few days/ weeks. These will usually be very slight such as a single "click" on the fine crossover knob or a single click on the volume knob that yield great results. Once you really have it dialed in, you'll know it because it will completely disappear into the soundstage.
post #262 of 732
I broke out some old gear I had lying around an it is giving me grief. Any advice would be appreciated.

* Monarchy SE-100 Deluxe Mono Amps - (Class A Amplifiers. When connected to speakers and an REL Sub through the REL High Level input, I am getting an audible buzz from one of the amps coming from inside the amp itself. It is not coming through the speakers at all but the buzz is loud enough to be unacceptable for a music listening room. When the Monarchy Amps are not connected to anything, the buzz inside the amp case goes away completely. Turn the amps on, the buzz comes back in one amp but not the other.)

* REL R-505 - (I get a steady hum from this Sub right out of the box when it is not connected to anything except power. I connected it to the Monarchy amps while they were powered off and the hum went away. When I powered on the Monarchy amps the hum comes back. I have not tried lifting ground on the amps yet or anything else. My concern is that the sub hums right out of the box when not connected to anything. My other sub, an REL R-305, does not hum at all when connected ... or not connected ... to a Marantz NR 1601 A/V Receiver. I have not tried REL R-305 with the Monarchy Amps yet.)

* Orelle DA 180 - (Not connected to anything yet. Comments on this piece of gear welcome. It came recommended but searching the Internet did not turn up much information about this unit.)

* Esoteric P-700 - (CD Player - Transport does not seem to be working properly. CD Tray will not close when I use the Open / Close or Play button. If I give the CD Tray a gentle push, it will close, but it just opens again after a few seconds. I am going to open it up and see if it has drive belts that have deteriorated with age. The CD Player is not connected to anything yet.)

Everything except the sub was purchased 10 years ago. The components were wrapped and sealed well in boxes after some brief use and left in my garage. I just opened all of the boxes and set it up for testing.

Sub was Purchased New as a floor model from a dealer. They claim it was working fine, However, the Sub had a steady low frequency hum right out of the box when powered up and not connected to anything.

**** One question I have is this. Can an REL R-505 be used with Class A Amplifiers? ****

Any comments from folks with some experience dealing with any of these issues would be appreciated.

Thank you,

Rich
post #263 of 732
Thread Starter 
Rich,

What you describe sounds like a ground loop hum but have you tried replacing your 305 with the 505 to see what happens?
post #264 of 732
If someone has already addressed this earlier on this thread, then I apologize in advance. It has become pretty clear to me that REL has some sort of issue with their supply chain or channel sales. How else can one explain the surplus of new T-1 and T-3 units, in cherry no less, available on eBay and Audiogon? At the same time, their new designated online and brick and mortar seller, Best Buy, has for some time, and continues, to show these units as unavailable for sale, either for pick-up in the stores or via online sales? Seems pretty odd to me. Also, said units are selling for about 60% of the "asking" or MSRP that Best Buy shows on their website. What's going on with this? It's odd that Best Buy would continue to present themselves as a distributor, while clearly they're out of the loop for product. Curious to say the least. Is REL trying to determine the fair market price?
post #265 of 732
Thread Starter 
I don't think Sumiko is allowing that to happen. I think that several different people bought a bunch of T series subs and are just liquidating them on the internet. I'm sure Sumiko will crack down on this.
post #266 of 732
Sorry, but I must respectfully stand by my point. Liquidating them? Doing so lowers the value of a front line item that should be available to the largest retailer in the US. If I were Best Buy, I'd be seriously reconsidering any arrangement or contract at this point. Best Buy is not getting supply, yet third parties can get their hands on them and sell them at a serious discount? At the very best, if and when Best Buy gets them in stock, it'll be hard to ask the prices they're posting on their website right now. This is a marketing faux pax, and should be brought to an immediate stop.
post #267 of 732
Thread Starter 
Keep in mind that the T3 is just one model, actually the lowest model, in the most budget-friendly family, of only one manufacturer that BB carries. I'm sure BB will survive even though they may have missed out on a couple dozen T3 sales. I think it would be a different story if there was a rash of B and R series getting sold wholesale all over the internet.

The third parties are probably getting them through distribution and blowing them out to make a few bucks. I agree that it should stop, but these things happen all the time in this industry in little "flare ups". Like hemorrhoids, I guess.
post #268 of 732
Hello, I am looking for your opinions. I currently have a Velodyne f-1200 sub that is starting to fail on me. The amp is going out. Anyway I have been looking at my local craigslist and there is a strata ii for $300. Is this a good price? My room is 14x16x9 and my fronts are Era d10 with a d5lcr and d3 rears. I have 2 young boys and don't turn up the volume. My viewing is at night when they in bed. It will be used mostly for movies. Thanks for your help.
post #269 of 732
I just bought a used Rel B1 to go with my Primare SPA22, which I now surmise is a Class D integrated amp. It's been awhile since anybody posted about the "Class D problem" on this thread, but I think I have it. Very frustrating to have such a nice new toy and not be able to enjoy it! Can anybody suggest where I might get "the high level digital cable," either on the net or in the San Francisco Bay Area? Thanks much!
post #270 of 732
I recently purchased a home that came with a REL T1 in the theatre room. The fronts and center are Dynaudio Audience 42W. I purchased an Onkyo TX-NR808 and need some help setting the system up. I believe I want to use the supplied Audyssey mic to for setup but am slightly confused by the T1. Should I connect both the high level and .1 LFE inputs during setup? Also where should I set the LFE level, cross over level, hi / low level and phase during the setup. I read through the thread and did not find the answers. I do apologize if this has already been answered?
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