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Official REL Subwoofer thread... - Page 16

post #451 of 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post

The R series are really nice and hit those low frequensies. You wont regret your purchase! As for volume balance I mean cranking the gain on the sub to get more bass! smile.gif
Which is the wrong way to go about it. If you want more bass, you get a bigger sub, not make a small one louder. I set my crossover very low and adjust to get seamless bass extension of my main speakers.
post #452 of 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceTripper View Post

Which is the wrong way to go about it. If you want more bass, you get a bigger sub, not make a small one louder. I set my crossover very low and adjust to get seamless bass extension of my main speakers.

My point exactly. That why I upgraded from a T-9 to R-528 SE
post #453 of 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post

My point exactly. That why I upgraded from a T-9 to R-528 SE

I would like to go for a 528SE, but I think I am going to upgrade my phono preamp before I do the sub, and my wife wants me to wait until the end of the year for any more upgrades.
post #454 of 732
No one ever answered post 402 re : difference between old T1 and current T9. Specs seem identical, so is it just the cabinet? I'd really like to know as I'm thinking of buying a second T1 for the basement to do dual subs and the T1 can be had at less than half the cost of a T9. The new T series are beautiful (I also have a T5 in a second system) but don't want to pay a lot more for functionally the same thing.
post #455 of 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcarcher View Post

No one ever answered post 402 re : difference between old T1 and current T9. Specs seem identical, so is it just the cabinet? I'd really like to know as I'm thinking of buying a second T1 for the basement to do dual subs and the T1 can be had at less than half the cost of a T9. The new T series are beautiful (I also have a T5 in a second system) but don't want to pay a lot more for functionally the same thing.

It may be that no one here knows. I do not.
post #456 of 732
R-528 SE Review

I am very impressed with this sub. I had owned a T-9 and swapped it for an R-528 regular that ended up being damaged in shipping so when we re-ordered it I opted for the SE version based on the upgraded woofer and sub enclosure. When I first hooked it up I was not impressed at all but it took the amp hours to warm up and get responsive. After 40+ hours of break in it is amazing.

Music - the REL integrates into 2 channel very well. It gets deep without being overdone. Even on bass heavy songs it is impossible to locate the position of the sub. The new woofer does produce a faster and cleaner bass response compared to regular R-528. The regular version sounded fantastic but not at the same level as the SE.

Movies - I spend most of the time watching movies with my HT. The SE does not disappoint when being tested with movies. It is faster and cleaner when compared the the regular 528. The utra long throw of the upgraded woofer allows the ultra low frequency sounds to be produced easily without distortion or bottoming out. The characteristic that I notice the most is you feel the bass more than you hear it which I personally prefer!

Overall - this is an amazing sub that completes our HT and could not come more highly recommended. The only issue I have now is how to convince my wife to let me buy a 2nd!biggrin.gif
post #457 of 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post

R-528 SE Review

I am very impressed with this sub. I had owned a T-9 and swapped it for an R-528 regular that ended up being damaged in shipping so when we re-ordered it I opted for the SE version based on the upgraded woofer and sub enclosure. When I first hooked it up I was not impressed at all but it took the amp hours to warm up and get responsive. After 40+ hours of break in it is amazing.

...

Awesome. Thanks for the review. I am thinking about getting my dealer's demo R328.
post #458 of 732
I really liked the R-328. Significant differance between that and the t-9. Go for it and enjoy!:cool
post #459 of 732
what do you gain as you move up the REL food chain?

my understanding is the ability to hit the low notes with no bloat nor distortion at higher and higher SPL in bigger rooms?

from the marketing write up and the connections, it all appears the same. just a slight bigger driver and more amp power but all integrating exceptionally well for 2 channel. The T5 on paper and in some reviews seems to achieve the same quality results most other REL reviews garner.

also, the theory behind multiple subs seems to be overlooked for a single higher end model.

heading to the store on Monday/Tuesday and I'm still constantly torn behind getting multiple T5's versus one T7 or T9 for 2 channel. I know the dual T5's will produce great bass, but all these reviews on the higher models makes me wonder. Price also plays into it. why does the T9 or 218 cost so much more in the value proposition and price equation. How much extra quality and care were put into the drivers/cabinet and amp?

is the upgraditis for most REL users (from T5/7 to T9 or the R series) all about just louder and stronger bass?
post #460 of 732
still torn, but all of a sudden leaning towards the T9 or the R-218. Single sub.

there is ZERO interest nor money in getting two subs if I buy a higher REL model. I'd rather use my money upgrading other weak points. Consistently, all the reviews I've read love the performance with a single sub. Obviously a few music only guys have dual subs

The store did lend me a T7 demo to bring home tonight. Compared to my Mirage MM8, I'm expecting better results with the REL. Maybe even "enough" . The price jumps are hard to swallow in the REL line.

Saving money on a SINGLE T7 or T9 is welcome. Turns out dual T5 = single R218 in price.

The design of the T5 is similar to the R218. Just less power and smaller driver size. Both are a single down firing driver. Only the T7/T9 and R328/528 have a passive driver also.

again, quality over SPL. On paper, even as a single driver, the R218 goes lower than the T9. The reviews above say the T9 is already chest pounding. Incredible and WAY more performance than I'm looking for.
post #461 of 732
I'd rather spent money on bass trapping then getting a second sub. Also, if you set it up right, you won't be able to localize the sub. Make sure to use the HI level connection for stereo listening. It will add much more then just low bass. Setting up a REL Hi level will be hard though, so try following the setup guide in the manual. For HI level, try putting the crossover a fair bit lower then your main speakers are specced. My speakers are specced to go down to 45Hz, but the REL is crossed to 31Hz (I got the B1). A lot of people cross the REL to high, and set the gain to low, resulting in bass peaks at the point where the mains and REL overlap and weak performance in the sub bass area (remember both your speakers and the REL have a roll off, not a cut off).

The hardest part of the setup is getting the phase right. Getting the 180º switch right is easy: Just pick the mode that sounds hardest. Everything between the 180º is achieved by moving the sub inches from the back and side walls. It's hard to hear, but stop moving when the bass is tight. When not right, the bass usually will hum behind the main speakers.

Have fun listening biggrin.gif I started with the little REL Quake II (comparable to the current T5) and was sold right away. I went for the B1 eventually and still use the Quake for HT duty in my HT room.
post #462 of 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Q View Post

I'd rather spent money on bass trapping then getting a second sub. Also, if you set it up right, you won't be able to localize the sub. Make sure to use the HI level connection for stereo listening. It will add much more then just low bass. Setting up a REL Hi level will be hard though, so try following the setup guide in the manual. For HI level, try putting the crossover a fair bit lower then your main speakers are specced. My speakers are specced to go down to 45Hz, but the REL is crossed to 31Hz (I got the B1). A lot of people cross the REL to high, and set the gain to low, resulting in bass peaks at the point where the mains and REL overlap and weak performance in the sub bass area (remember both your speakers and the REL have a roll off, not a cut off).

The hardest part of the setup is getting the phase right. Getting the 180º switch right is easy: Just pick the mode that sounds hardest. Everything between the 180º is achieved by moving the sub inches from the back and side walls. It's hard to hear, but stop moving when the bass is tight. When not right, the bass usually will hum behind the main speakers.

Have fun listening biggrin.gif I started with the little REL Quake II (comparable to the current T5) and was sold right away. I went for the B1 eventually and still use the Quake for HT duty in my HT room.

thanks...the hi level inputs were pretty easy to figure out. The store gave me a good verbal and visual instructions also.

the T7 definitely hits harder than my Mirage sub. a lot more actually. I can notice the fullness at the back of the room in the kitchen now. Obviously I haven't found the perfect set up yet, nor tested a lot of material. Only have another night before I make my decision.

I'm really trying to figure how much I want, need and can have while being a good neighbour. Looking at my available space, dual subs in theory is better but the available space only gives me two spots to put them in a decor friendly manor. Maybe a single higher quality R-218 is the way to go. The T7 is enough bass, does that mean I don't need the better sub (R218)?

To me, good subs is just filling in the bottom end for my room/speakers. i don't know how to judge quality beyond integrating well. I know what bad bass is, but REL sells their subs as being all good at integrating. Going up the REL food chain is just more power, and bigger dynamics. Hard to quantify going up the model line as better bass. Does better really mean SPL? Do you need SPL to hear/feel <30Hz? Because if it requires loudness, then I cannot play it that loud.
post #463 of 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by poopiehead View Post

thanks...the hi level inputs were pretty easy to figure out. The store gave me a good verbal and visual instructions also.

the T7 definitely hits harder than my Mirage sub. a lot more actually. I can notice the fullness at the back of the room in the kitchen now. Obviously I haven't found the perfect set up yet, nor tested a lot of material. Only have another night before I make my decision.

I'm really trying to figure how much I want, need and can have while being a good neighbour. Looking at my available space, dual subs in theory is better but the available space only gives me two spots to put them in a decor friendly manor. Maybe a single higher quality R-218 is the way to go. The T7 is enough bass, does that mean I don't need the better sub (R218)?

To me, good subs is just filling in the bottom end for my room/speakers. i don't know how to judge quality beyond integrating well. I know what bad bass is, but REL sells their subs as being all good at integrating. Going up the REL food chain is just more power, and bigger dynamics. Hard to quantify going up the model line as better bass. Does better really mean SPL? Do you need SPL to hear/feel <30Hz? Because if it requires loudness, then I cannot play it that loud.

As you go up the REL line, they reach deeper into the bass spectrum. Look at the specs between the T-7 and R218. The T-7 is 30 Hz at -6db while the R218 is 25 Hz at -6db. The R328 and R528 reach deeper still.
post #464 of 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by poopiehead View Post

thanks...the hi level inputs were pretty easy to figure out. The store gave me a good verbal and visual instructions also.

the T7 definitely hits harder than my Mirage sub. a lot more actually. I can notice the fullness at the back of the room in the kitchen now. Obviously I haven't found the perfect set up yet, nor tested a lot of material. Only have another night before I make my decision.

I'm really trying to figure how much I want, need and can have while being a good neighbour. Looking at my available space, dual subs in theory is better but the available space only gives me two spots to put them in a decor friendly manor. Maybe a single higher quality R-218 is the way to go. The T7 is enough bass, does that mean I don't need the better sub (R218)?

To me, good subs is just filling in the bottom end for my room/speakers. i don't know how to judge quality beyond integrating well. I know what bad bass is, but REL sells their subs as being all good at integrating. Going up the REL food chain is just more power, and bigger dynamics. Hard to quantify going up the model line as better bass. Does better really mean SPL? Do you need SPL to hear/feel <30Hz? Because if it requires loudness, then I cannot play it that loud.

You'll most of all need a good room and listening position. Every room including mine suffers from big peaks and nulls in the bass. What the more expensive REL does better, is play on low volumes, despite having a much larger woover (Quake's 8" vs B1's 12"). The B1 also has better timing, which adds greatly to the size of the soundstage and the weight of sounds (attack/decay). I think the most famous example REL uses themselves to illustrate this, is to listen to the song "Eva Cassidy - Fields of Gold (Songbird)". Try to listen to the song with and without the REL turned on and then listen to it again with the REL turned on and note the difference.
post #465 of 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Q View Post

You'll most of all need a good room and listening position. Every room including mine suffers from big peaks and nulls in the bass. What the more expensive REL does better, is play on low volumes, despite having a much larger woover (Quake's 8" vs B1's 12"). The B1 also has better timing, which adds greatly to the size of the soundstage and the weight of sounds (attack/decay). I think the most famous example REL uses themselves to illustrate this, is to listen to the song "Eva Cassidy - Fields of Gold (Songbird)". Try to listen to the song with and without the REL turned on and then listen to it again with the REL turned on and note the difference.

I'll find that track tonight....thanks for all the answers. This is starting to make more sense.
post #466 of 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Q View Post

You'll most of all need a good room and listening position. Every room including mine suffers from big peaks and nulls in the bass. What the more expensive REL does better, is play on low volumes, despite having a much larger woover (Quake's 8" vs B1's 12"). The B1 also has better timing, which adds greatly to the size of the soundstage and the weight of sounds (attack/decay). I think the most famous example REL uses themselves to illustrate this, is to listen to the song "Eva Cassidy - Fields of Gold (Songbird)". Try to listen to the song with and without the REL turned on and then listen to it again with the REL turned on and note the difference.

based on your reply I chose a single R-218 over getting two T5's. it's all on you...hahaha your low volume comment especially was the turning point.

The sales guy was really leaving the decision to me, but obviously happy with my choice. maybe because I would succumb in the future and get a second R-218 eek.gif

I really didn't have much time with the demo T7 the last two days (15-20 min a night). Life getting in the way. I never tuned it perfectly and the bass was coming thru a bit stronger than I liked. Obviously the position and settings weren't ideal. No turning back so hopefully a single sub will yield the results I'm looking for.

Getting a REL allows me to sell my Outlaw ICBM now.
post #467 of 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by poopiehead View Post

based on your reply I chose a single R-218 over getting two T5's. it's all on you...hahaha your low volume comment especially was the turning point.

The sales guy was really leaving the decision to me, but obviously happy with my choice. maybe because I would succumb in the future and get a second R-218 eek.gif

I really didn't have much time with the demo T7 the last two days (15-20 min a night). Life getting in the way. I never tuned it perfectly and the bass was coming thru a bit stronger than I liked. Obviously the position and settings weren't ideal. No turning back so hopefully a single sub will yield the results I'm looking for.

Getting a REL allows me to sell my Outlaw ICBM now.

I don't think you can go wrong with it. It's just that setting it up right can be real hard. I think I've listened for years to my setup with the REL and though it was pretty good. Then I changed some stuff and.. oh my! thats so much better! Once you find the right crossover point and the right gain setting, it will probably sound pretty good. The phase is another problem and is also hard to hear.

If the bass was stronger then you liked, it probably has to do with the crossover being to high. Against every believe you have about subs, setting the cross a good bit lower then the frequency range of your mains speakers will help. What I did was running some test tones with just my main speakers on. The lowest frequency your main speakers are able to play, is probably a good starting point for the crossover (you have to take in mind room gain, which will amplify certain frequencies, depending mostly on the distance of your frontwall/backwall. These peaks can sometimes make your main speakers go ' lower' then they actually can). REL subs are best at playing deep sub bass 40Hz and below. Also crossing the HI level on 31Hz doesn't mean the sub won't play anything above it. It has a roll off.
post #468 of 732
the R-218 right off the bat with more conservative settings (about 50Hz and about 1/3 on the gain) and closer placement to the corner yielded better results than my brief demo of the T7. The bass was actually less but fully integrated in my listening position. if I stood up and moved around though, you could definitely hear it more localized.

I still don't have much bases of comparisons with subwoofers, except HT and my car audio days where the bass is over emphasized. in 2 channel, at this point, the R-218 is definitely lifting the sound stage quite a bit and the presence of the vocals is definitely enhanced. The ambiance of the original recording definitely is coming through more and the "air" of the vocals. Again all flowery audio description review crap. Bottom line it's better than before. Note: it doesn't seem better than when I would hear mega buck systems at the store. The dynamic still aren't as strong as I expected with a sub. The bass drums don't "kick", but again, I don't know if that's an extreme tuning situation or still early in optimizing my placement and settings.
post #469 of 732
I will be auditioning a REL R-328 this weekend, as a possible replacement to my T-7.
post #470 of 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by poopiehead View Post

the R-218 right off the bat with more conservative settings (about 50Hz and about 1/3 on the gain) and closer placement to the corner yielded better results than my brief demo of the T7. The bass was actually less but fully integrated in my listening position. if I stood up and moved around though, you could definitely hear it more localized.

I still don't have much bases of comparisons with subwoofers, except HT and my car audio days where the bass is over emphasized. in 2 channel, at this point, the R-218 is definitely lifting the sound stage quite a bit and the presence of the vocals is definitely enhanced. The ambiance of the original recording definitely is coming through more and the "air" of the vocals. Again all flowery audio description review crap. Bottom line it's better than before. Note: it doesn't seem better than when I would hear mega buck systems at the store. The dynamic still aren't as strong as I expected with a sub. The bass drums don't "kick", but again, I don't know if that's an extreme tuning situation or still early in optimizing my placement and settings.

Probably both setup and your room. It takes time to fine-tune a REL, but don't worry about it. You'll start to understand it better and better the longer you live with it. Moving the sub towards and from the corner is what fine tunes the phase of the sub. The closer the phase of the sub is to your main speakers, the better the integration. Also try doing the frequency tests to get a better idea for the crossover. Your flowery words sound familiar (I am also not into that stuff) tongue.gif

You could also try looking into room setup. Your speaker position, but also your listening position will affect the bass you can hear more than a different sub can. Always try making your speakers face the longest dimension of your room. The ideal listening position for the most flat bass response is either 38% from the front wall or 38% from the back wall. To close to the front wall will make the bass louder. To close to the back wall will make the bass the loudest, and unbalanced. Try avoiding the center, since it will get you the most nulls and some terrible peaks. In general any untreated room has lots of peaks and nulls in the frequency response from 300Hz and down. Right now the only upgrade I can think of for my audio setup is room treatments. Anything else would be a waste of money.

You can read up more about it right here: http://www.realtraps.com/articles.htm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceTripper 
I will be auditioning a REL R-328 this weekend, as a possible replacement to my T-7.

I wonder where you crossed the REL with those big speakers. I got min @ 31 for just the C1's and from my memory the S3.4 go quite a bit deeper.
post #471 of 732
Ok, I have a REL G-2 - I love this sub. I have a question about hooking this up to an up to the minute pre-pro. The REL documentation really stresses using the high level neutrik connector in conjunction with the low level LFE. I had been doing this for several months with an Onkyo Pre/pro with zero issues. I purchased a Marantz AV8801 Pre/Pro and hooked up the REL the same way. The low level subwoofer 1 connector apparently was bad as I was getting no output from the sub. Talked to my vendor - he was adamant that I set up some sort of feedback loop from the neutrik back through the RCA to the Pre/Pro and fried SW1. So my question is - is this possible? It seems possible. Everyone over on the AV8801 forum is telling me to use the LFE input only - no neutrik. This is what I am doing with my replacement AV8801. The bass is not as satisfying as through the neutrik. I would like to use the same connections that I used with the Onkyo. Any wisdom on this issue? Does REL tech support haunt this forum? Maybe they can provide some insights. Thanks folks.

Patrick
post #472 of 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Q View Post

...
I wonder where you crossed the REL with those big speakers. I got min @ 31 for just the C1's and from my memory the S3.4 go quite a bit deeper.
The S3.4 go to 35Hz -3db. I crossover at the lowest setting. When I had S1.4s I set crossover to around 35Hz. I want something that reaches deeper, so I suspect the R328 will work better for me. I'm picking it up late tomorrow to audition for the next week
post #473 of 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by patric9956 View Post

Ok, I have a REL G-2 - I love this sub. I have a question about hooking this up to an up to the minute pre-pro. The REL documentation really stresses using the high level neutrik connector in conjunction with the low level LFE. I had been doing this for several months with an Onkyo Pre/pro with zero issues. I purchased a Marantz AV8801 Pre/Pro and hooked up the REL the same way. The low level subwoofer 1 connector apparently was bad as I was getting no output from the sub. Talked to my vendor - he was adamant that I set up some sort of feedback loop from the neutrik back through the RCA to the Pre/Pro and fried SW1. So my question is - is this possible? It seems possible. Everyone over on the AV8801 forum is telling me to use the LFE input only - no neutrik. This is what I am doing with my replacement AV8801. The bass is not as satisfying as through the neutrik. I would like to use the same connections that I used with the Onkyo. Any wisdom on this issue? Does REL tech support haunt this forum? Maybe they can provide some insights. Thanks folks.

Patrick
Im no pro nor do I use seperates but wouldnt you hook up your neutrik to the amp and not the pre pro. I have an SR 7007 with a 528SE and it works fantastic! Lfe to pre pro and neutrik to amp. If you did that and used audyssey for calibration! Disconnect the neutrik prior to calibration the hook it up after calibration is completed. Hope that helped. If not call sumiko in california.
Michael
post #474 of 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceTripper View Post

The S3.4 go to 35Hz -3db. I crossover at the lowest setting. When I had S1.4s I set crossover to around 35Hz. I want something that reaches deeper, so I suspect the R328 will work better for me. I'm picking it up late tomorrow to audition for the next week

I was told by REL to set crossover 10Hz higher than speaker lowest Hz....
post #475 of 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post

I was told by REL to set crossover 10Hz higher than speaker lowest Hz....

By lowest Hz I assume you mean F3? You generally want to xover an octave above the tuning point to stave off group delay.
post #476 of 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by patric9956 View Post

Ok, I have a REL G-2 - I love this sub. I have a question about hooking this up to an up to the minute pre-pro. The REL documentation really stresses using the high level neutrik connector in conjunction with the low level LFE. I had been doing this for several months with an Onkyo Pre/pro with zero issues. I purchased a Marantz AV8801 Pre/Pro and hooked up the REL the same way. The low level subwoofer 1 connector apparently was bad as I was getting no output from the sub. Talked to my vendor - he was adamant that I set up some sort of feedback loop from the neutrik back through the RCA to the Pre/Pro and fried SW1. So my question is - is this possible? It seems possible. Everyone over on the AV8801 forum is telling me to use the LFE input only - no neutrik. This is what I am doing with my replacement AV8801. The bass is not as satisfying as through the neutrik. I would like to use the same connections that I used with the Onkyo. Any wisdom on this issue? Does REL tech support haunt this forum? Maybe they can provide some insights. Thanks folks.

Patrick

If you use the REL for music only, I'd just use the HI level connection alone. I'd only use the LFE connection for the LFE effects in 5.1 material. The magic with REL's happen with the seamless integration you can achieve with the HI level connection. Also iirc the HI level connection is 100kΩ so I doubt you can fry anything with it,
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post

I was told by REL to set crossover 10Hz higher than speaker lowest Hz....

In HI level mode it's pretty much the opposite. People seem to forget that both your main speakers and the REL roll off. If your speakers say they can reach 40Hz, they can also reach 30Hz, but less loud. The REL does the same. IF you cross it @ 30Hz, it will still also do frequencies @ 40Hz, but less loud. Most people set up their REL with a to high crossover, resulting in a boomy bass in the overlapping frequencies, which results in lower gain to compensate, which results in poor sub bass performance and still a boomy bass. And then there is room gain, which is a pain in the ... because it will influence the crossover point as well. A flat bass response in an untreated room is pretty much impossible.
post #477 of 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post

I was told by REL to set crossover 10Hz higher than speaker lowest Hz....
No, that doesn't make sense without bass management. Maybe for integrating into a home theater system. But for two-channel integration with no bass management, you want to use the hi level inputs and set crossover low. The manual even states that people are more inclined to set crossover too high and level too low, resulting in boomy bass.
Edited by RaceTripper - 6/8/13 at 11:29am
post #478 of 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceTripper View Post

No, that doesn't make sense without bass management, maybe for integrating into a home theater system. But for two-channel integration with no bass management, you want to use the hi level inputs and set crossover low. The manual even states that people are more inclined to set crossover too high and level too low, resulting in boomy bass.

My speakers are rated at 40Hz and I have the rel around 50Hz and have no boomy bass. I wll play around with it though....thanks for the info.
post #479 of 732
knew that the speaker needed to break in a bit, but the R-218 is starting to hit harder and harder at the existing settings. in a week it's going to be even better. it's still as integrated so the bass is just better and better now.

I did move it closer to the corner a few inches and there was even better results.
post #480 of 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post

My speakers are rated at 40Hz and I have the rel around 50Hz and have no boomy bass. I wll play around with it though....thanks for the info.

I brought home a R328 to try out this afternoon (as a possible replacement for my T-7). My speakers are rated down to 35 Hz. If I set the REL crossover to 35 Hz (or higher), I loose definition in the midrange and the bass is slightly too boomy (a recording of J.S. Bach's Toccata and Fugue for organ exposes that pretty quickly). I have the R328 at 30 Hz right now. It sounds really good. I was just playing some Renaissance music, with a lot of plucked strings and not much bass, but when I turned the REL off the soundstage dropped out and sounded flatter, less three-dimensional. Then I put on Charles Mingus, "Mingus Ah Um" and when Mingus is picking the bass really quickly I can hear every note very distinctly. The T-7 didn't seem to be able to keep up as well.

I really like what I am hearing so far. The R328 might have to stay home with me. smile.gif
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