Official REL Subwoofer thread... - Page 3

I was finally able to order the "High Level Digital Cable" a week ago today. I just received word that it's just now being shipped from CA and I should receive it in the next couple days. Monday at the latest. When I do receive it, I'll be sure to share images of this special cable that's only being made on a case by case basis.

Then I can find out if it will have a difference in performance. A reminder of when I had the original cable hooked up to it, something did seem to be wrong.

Also, I'm going to post a "Warning" for REL owners who use Class "D" amps/receivers in this thread and make one of it's own thread. I wanted to make it a sticky, however the mods stated they are trying to keep the amount of stickys to a minimum and this notice would only effect a small percentage in this group.

It's a interesting situation and kind of rare. In my years of this hobby, I've never ran across anything like it.

of damage due to improper ground.

The following situation can cause damage to your audio equipment. If you use regular "High Level" cables connected to any of the main outputs on a Class "D" amp or receiver, there is risk of damage due to improper grounding. However there is no risk of damage if your using the RCA type connection while hooked up to the low level connection.

If your using a newer REL sub bass system that's designed for both music (high level input) AND movie sound (.1 LFE Channel low level RCA type connection) while connected to both connections at the same time, AND your using a class "D" amp or receiver, you risk damage to your audio equipment with only the High Level Input connection.

Again, the issue being proper grounding. Hooking the black wire of the "High Level" cable to a phono ground will not help. Hooking up a RCA type connection to the black wire and attaching it to any of the unused RCA connections on the back of your amp/receiver will also not help.

The way to properly hook up your REL to a class "D" amp/receiver (while using the high level connection) is to use a "High Level Digital Cable" available through your local REL dealer. This is a "new" situation and the "High Level Digital Cables" are only being manufactured on a case by case basis. The word "Digital" is not to be confused with the type of signal being sent through it, it only describes the type of cable to be manufactured. Many local REL dealers may not be aware of this and will have to contact Sumiko for further information.

My "High Level Digital Cable" arrived last Thursday. Unfortunately the "Speak-on" connection was of the newer type, not of the older type I need for my older REL Stadium II.

Not a problem as it was easily sent back to Sumiko by one of my local REL dealers for a replacement.

So as part of this update, it's also important to provide the model of the REL sub bass system you have as the connections are different on the newer models.

Once I get the correct replacement, I will provide images so everyone can see what the "Digital High Level Cable" looks like.

To describe by words, it does not look any different then regular high level cable connections except for the fact that it does have a RCA type connection on the black wire. Again, REL says there's more to it than that, as there's more that helps provide a proper ground.

Folks:
I have both an audio system and a home theater system. For my audio system,
it looks like I just missed a REL Stadium III on Audiogon for a VERY reasonable price. I would like to interact with a REL dealer in the NorthEast (I am in Central New York) who is recommended by those of you who have successfully integrated a REL into your system. If you could PM me with a dealer that you recommend, I would appreciate it. Thanks in advance.

I got an ACI Titan instead of a REL, so never mind the referrals. Thanks anyway...

Many thanks to Thebarnman for your research! You've just saved me and my old Studio I from a painful expreience.

Forgive my ignorance but how do I know what class my receiver is? It is a yamaha rx-v4600 and I'm using both high & low level connections to my b3 with the old wire. No smoke yet.

i just bought a REL R305 subwoofer. i have given the unit about 65 hours of break in at this point. i currently have it hooked up to my NAD t785 receiver using an AudioQuest Sub3 rca subwoofer cable. i am happy with this connection but am wondering if it would be beneficial to use the speakon connector versus the rca connection that is currently equipped. if i was to use the speakon connection how would i connect it to my amp?

Great to see a REL forum!!

I now have an image of the wire you will need if you use a REL's "High Level" input with a Class D Amp/Receiver...


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hlight=warning

I'm glad I could be of help! It took a little while to get the information, however I knew if I could type it all down, it would be of benefit to others.

Barnman, your situation makes an interesting read. I am in the process of selecting equipment for a new HT system and am considering the B1 (or at least was, my interest is waning).

I plan to use class D amplification and have asked my local dealers about this connectivity issue but none know how to respond. So I find it interesting that I have now found this thread.

Actually John Dawson from Arcam provided a good answer to the issue in your other thread, most class D amplifiers are configured with what's known as a full bridge output. This type of output is balanced. However this is not unique to class D amps, some class A/B amps like certain Bryston models also use a balanced output.

In a more typical amp, the negative terminal is grounded and the positive terminal swings +/- around ground. In a balanced output the two terminals alternate +/- (i.e. both terminals alternate in polarity) and neither is grounded. You will typically find a small lightning symbol next to the terminals on amps that have this type of output configuration. I believe the SC-07 uses ICE amps and is in the same boat.

At line level using .1 LFE (sub) output from the preamp etc. there is no issue, but REL makes a lot of noise about using the high (speaker) level inputs to capture the sonic signature of the power amps and when connecting to the class D amp a proper connection must be made. There would be no difference for passive spe

By reviewing the online manual of the B1 it appears that in an unbalanced output the yellow and red wires are being used to pick up the positive (hot) terminals of the left and right speaker channels, the black can then be connected to either negative speaker terminal as they share a common ground. Unless of course you use mono blocks which have no common ground, so this is then picked up at the preamp. This configuration allows you to deliver signal information from both stereo channels to one sub.

Using the B1 with a balanced output configuration like most class D amps, it appears the yellow and red wires are used to input the balanced output (positive and negative) from a single amplifier channel. So from what I can tell, and is somewhat mentioned in the REL manual, you must use two subs in a stereo pair if feeding them with a balanced high level signal.

I am not sure if the input options on the B1 match exactly with your stadium II but am curious as to what the yellow and red wires connect to in your system? Your new cable looks fairly ordinary other than having an RCA terminated black wire to pick up a ground from your preamp. However, I have no idea what causes the lump at the end of the XLR connector (perhaps that's the unique part) but I can't see why Sumiko wants $150 for that cable.

Folks,

Is anyone using this REL spec cable from Signal Cable?

http://signalcable.com/relspeakon.html

I want to try this cable because it has spades for connection to the Amp verses the bare wire from the stock cable. I just prefer spades verses bare wire for hook-up.

I almost was ready to give up on my REL B2. I am not sure what I was thinking. I have always felt REL was one of the best for Stereo but I felt I wasn't getting enough for HT.

I went to audition another brand of sub last Friday and also listened to REL B1 and the B1 sounded fantastic for both HT and Stereo.

This tells me I need to continue to work on set-up in my own house and I did play around with placement yesterday and got some improvement.

I watched "The Wrestler" last night with a lot of 80's rock in the soundtrack and it sounded so damn good and I was reminded why I picked REL to begin with. Stereo has always been excellent.

So instead of putting my REL B2 up on Audiogon and going a different direction, I ordered a second REL B2 .

Set-up is so critical with these subs and it is probably my biggest weakness in regards to HT set-up. I need to really focus and be patient as I think these subs are worth it when dialed-in.

I can't wait to try dual B2's. My second won't be here for a couple of weeks.

If anyone has tried the Signal Cable, please let me know. Now that I will have two sub's to connect to my amp, I would like the spade connections. Came accross this cable by accident yesterday on Audiogon.

Thanks,

Rick

Understood but the cable itself seems to be a little weak. The "number" of strands of wire seem to be on the thin side. This was my first thought a year ago and had nothing to do with the spades.

It just doesn't seem to match the quality of the sub. $180 is a lot of money I guess but in comparison to the $5k of the two subs MSRP or so I guess it's all relative.

Maybe I will give one a try and see how it is before buying the second.

I guess it's cheaper than this one and I have a few Synergistic Cables in my arsenal.

http://thecableco.com/product.php?id=5141

or at a bargain price http://thecableco.com/product.php?id=1254

Rick

Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately...), upgraded REL cables can make a discernable difference. Its mild but there. Its almost just about timbral matching. Have a REL cable built by the same company that provided the main system cables is that last piece of the puzzel. That being said, like power cords, its like the sprinkles on the icing in your cake.

I actually like the sprinkles! But not the icing...

Pulling your old post back up. Boy, like I had mentioned earlier, I ordered a second B2 to match my existing B2 a few days ago.

I have also been thinking about that B1 demo from a few days ago. I went back today, listened again, and low and behold, I canceled my second B2 order and changed my order to the B1.

After discussions with the sales team at the store, we are going for the B1 for LFE front left/right and I am going to try my current B2 to enhance the rears for HT.

I would have thought that it would have been better to go with the B2 for use with Center but they are suggesting the B2 for rears. Mmmmm. One in opposing corners front/back.

They said if I watch a lot of concert dvd's, than perhaps the B2 would be a better fit for the Center. I do watch and love blu-ray concerts so we will see.

Regardless, I will now have a B1 and B2. Need to stop going to the store otherwise I may end up with a B3 as well

This should be exciting over my current single B2.

Rick

Hi...I'm looking for a new sub to replace my 12"B&W which is not working anymore. A friend introduce me to the REL T1 which i think is a very interesting sub and has got a lot of good reviews to back it up.

I will be using the sub in my living room which is very big....24ftx22ft with ceiling height of about 11ft. The living room is actually 24x14 but it includes a dining area and a staircase to the second floor so that adds up to the total space.

I'm primarily using the sub for HT and about 30% music. From what I understand, the T1 use an active 10" driver and a passive 10" driver too. What is the meaning of passive here? Is it just an empty piece of driver that is moved by the active driver or its a separate driver power by the AV receiver that connected to the high level input?

What i'm looking for is a sub good for both music and HT use. I know the T1 is great for music but is it good for HT and can it sound big without too boomy or distortion?

thanks..i have read the manual.

For HT use, can the T1 produce deep bass at a decent volume to provide the necessary impact when watching movies. From all the reviews I read about the T1, I am very sure this is a great sub for music. However I am looking for a sub that provides good quality lows for both music and HT, but I also heard some people saying that the T1 is not suitable for HT use because it doesn't move very much air to really feel much impact. I know different people have different requirements as to how powerful a sub is. Some subs can really shake the house upside down, but i don't really need those. What I want is good quality bass that is powerful enough to really feel the impact of the movie without feeling underpower.

So my concern now is that is the T1 be powerful enough for HT use?

lightning69,

At around 3600cu.ft. just in the listening area, I think the T1 might start to run out of steam in your room at higher volume levels. My local dealer that has REL subwoofers had a demo room that was 2000cu.ft. (18ft x 12ft x 9ft ceilings). I watched parts of "Finding Nemo" and the first Matrix movie and thought the T1 started straining at a level that wasn't extremely loud.

A recent review in Home Theater Magazine paired the T1 with a Sonus Faber system. Here's a link to their measurements page. As you can see, the T1's output starts to decrease somewhere in the 35-40Hz range. In my experience, that 30-40Hz range can account for some of that "impact" and "rumble" you feel in explosions from movies, and you really need a subwoofer that can reproduce those frequencies for a good cinematic experience. I would be afraid the T1 might get overdriven before you get to an adequate playback level.

As for a recommendation, I can't really make one for you- maybe others in the thread can chime in and offer some advice. I just wanted to share my experience and information with you. I think the T1 would be spectacular for you on music, but I also think that it might come up a little short for you on the movie front. Good luck with your search.

-Tyler

thanks Tyler. That is why I'm a little worried about the T1 because of its small size and 10" woofer.