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Dish DTVPal technical and TVGOS topic - Page 2  

post #31 of 822
As I posted, it will be nice when people here actually have the devices in their hands and hooked to their systems to verify/refute the claims and be available for discussion.
post #32 of 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by anyhoo View Post

I think this is a worthwhile thread.

I agree. The main DTVPal thread is so active it is like live chat. Any bits of useful information are quickly buried under reams of noise posts whining about how the evil Dish conglomerate raised the price $20, and on and on. Now that the box is almost in users hands, we need to have a thread(s) that deal with performance/features/tricks-n-tips.
post #33 of 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by anyhoo View Post

I am wondering if we can't just turn off all our analog stations on the 3410?
Then, I am wondering if we turn on 3-0 (or 4-0) and that will be the "analog" station carrying the TVGOS data.
But as you say, we won't know until we try

If you read the Sony DVR thread, someone has 'filtered" out their analog channels and has been receiving guide data digitally for over a week now (without the help of any outside device!).

So if you want to try blocking out those analogs from giving you the data, check that out.
post #34 of 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

If you read the Sony DVR thread, someone has 'filtered" out their analog channels and has been receiving guide data digitally for over a week now (without the help of any outside device!).

So if you want to try blocking out those analogs from giving you the data, check that out.

I have read that post, but was thinking it may be even easier with the 3410A because one of it's quirks is that you must have the analog station that broadcasts the TVGOS data 'On' in the channel set-up menu.

As usual with the DTV-PAL, we will have to wait and test and see
post #35 of 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaltA View Post

From what I have been reading here, it seems to me that the DTVpal takes the digital EPG data contained in many (some?) ATSC channel signals, and instead of using that digital EPG data to create its own on-screen guide (which some CECB's do), it translates it into analog TVGOS data and sends it out with the analog TV/video signal.

well, they could have tried to do that, but why would they? TVGOS devices expect a full 8 days of data, and the DTVPAL can strip all that that from the one (CBS) digital channel that is carrying it, then just add it back in the right format to the converted analog version of that channel...whereas scanning to get SOME PSIP data will leave a lot of holes that will screw up how the TVGOS devices work...

but we'll see by next week, I believe

(and for months, a contact (from Echostar, I think) of a guy on the LG3410a thread has been telling him that the TR-40 will pass the TVGOS data over...)
post #36 of 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

If you read the Sony DVR thread, someone has 'filtered" out their analog channels and has been receiving guide data digitally for over a week now (without the help of any outside device!).

So if you want to try blocking out those analogs from giving you the data, check that out.

I read some of those posts over on the Sony DVR forum. Very interesting and informative. I gathered that the Sony DVR TVGOS system, with it's analog and digital tuners, is capable of populating it's TVGOS from either the analog or digital signal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by avnstf View Post

no - DTVPal does not "read" TVGOS data when you need to record...you set a recording on your device, which has previously received program info from TVGOS VIA the DTVPal (but - according to the DTVPal manual - based on a fake zip code, because it doesn't know about digital channel numbers), at the proper time your device sends a signal via g-link TO the DTVPal to set the channel properly for the recording, or - probably - for viewing...

the whole point is that, by the time of the digital swtichover, the TVGOS data will be broadcast on the CBS digital channel nationwide (instead of the PBS analog channel)
- the DTVPal will be able to tune that channel FOR your TVGOS device, as well as put the data on the analog output for that channel, so that your TVGOS device RECEIVES the program listings properly...

So, the DTV-Pal tunes to CBS and gets the TVGOS data, sends it on the analog channel to the TVGOS device.

Am I the only one who is wondering why Echostar didn't just allow the DTV-Pal to use the TVGOS as it's guide instead of PSIP? I mean, if it's capable of acquiring the signal, converting it and passing it along... Is it possible they got around having to pay $ to TV Guide by only making the TVGOS info available to users who already have a TVGOS device?
post #37 of 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by anyhoo View Post

I have read that post, but was thinking it may be even easier with the 3410A because one of it's quirks is that you must have the analog station that broadcasts the TVGOS data 'On' in the channel set-up menu.

Yeah, I remember reading that but forgot about it. The Sony doesn't seem to have that same quirk. I've had my host channel turned off for a long time now.
post #38 of 822
you can find manual at ezdigitaltv.com they have an additional features page which has most all dtv boxes--site won't let me post link till I have 3 post
post #39 of 822
post #40 of 822
New toys are fun!

Just started playing with it. I'm getting about 48 hours on most of the EPG. One channel has less than 12 hours, but that's the rinky-dink CW affiliate around here.

Not sure if EPG mentions mentioned it can do live TV EPG similar to the Zeniths. You can watch a show and bring up the mini-guide on the bottom of the screen that shows an hour or two of one channel listing. You can then scroll through it to see other channels and times.

Or you can use the full-screen EPG, of course, although the full-screen one still only shows three or four channels at a time. (Sorry about the specifics. It's in a different room.)

I can't complain about the picture, but I don't have any other converter boxes for a side-by-side. It's also hard to gauge it at this time since there's no OTA HD programming on for a few hours yet. Hmm, unless Dr. Phil is HD.

The tuners seem excellent so far. It's a cloudy day, and it's picking up the little CW station well, along with the Fox station which here tends to have underpowered problems. I have it hooked to my old combo antenna, and the Twinhan tuner cards in my HTPC pretty much hated that antenna, and I had to get a 4221 clone for them. But so far the DTVPal has no problem with the combo one.

CW and Fox are about 85 on the strength meter, not that that means much since companies don't use the same strength meters, but, like I said, Fox here is often underpowered, and I have the antenna probably 30+ degrees away from the CW.
post #41 of 822
It is unclear from the Manual if the Timer's will turn on the DTVPal or if it has to be left on for them to work.

There is a suggestion in the manual to allow the DTVPal to shut itself off every 4 hours but if that disables the Timer then that is not going to work.
post #42 of 822
TheFranchise, how much program info does it give - on my zenith the "display" button gives me about 45 words of plot and actors. That kind of example doesn't show up on the EPG photos here, but I usually get lots of plot info. The dtvpal photo here showed only a couple words, and I'm not sure if that's because there's only room for a few words, or if it can carry much more detail on the summary description.
post #43 of 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by jehrler View Post

It is unclear from the Manual if the Timer's will turn on the DTVPal or if it has to be left on for them to work.

There is a suggestion in the manual to allow the DTVPal to shut itself off every 4 hours but if that disables the Timer then that is not going to work.

I asked a known beta tester over at satelliteguys about this, and he reported that the timer turns on the DTVPal but does not turn it off at the end. He actually went home and tested it for me.

The suggestion to auto-shutoff is presumably because the box gathers EPG data while off - at least that's what I gather from cryptic posts on satelliteguys.
post #44 of 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by partsman_ba View Post

I asked a known beta tester over at satelliteguys about this, and he reported that the timer turns on the DTVPal but does not turn it off at the end. He actually went home and tested it for me.

The suggestion to auto-shutoff is presumably because the box gathers EPG data while off - at least that's what I gather from cryptic posts on satelliteguys.

I wonder what would happen if the 4 or 2 or 1 hour limit was reached while a timer was in effect. Would it continue until the end of the timer and then shut off, would it shut off immediately or would it never shut off?
post #45 of 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by jehrler View Post

I wonder what would happen if the 4 or 2 or 1 hour limit was reached while a timer was in effect. Would it continue until the end of the timer and then shut off, would it shut off immediately or would it never shut off?

Probably explode, leaving a final message burned-in on your CRT:

Did you know Dish Network is as low as $19.99/month?
post #46 of 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by idjk View Post

now I have 3

http://www.ezdigitaltv.com/Additiona...es_Matrix.html

here, I hope is the ACTUAL link to the manual:
http://www.ezdigitaltv.com/support-f...nual_small.pdf
post #47 of 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by TalkingRat View Post

TheFranchise, how much program info does it give - on my zenith the "display" button gives me about 45 words of plot and actors. That kind of example doesn't show up on the EPG photos here, but I usually get lots of plot info. The dtvpal photo here showed only a couple words, and I'm not sure if that's because there's only room for a few words, or if it can carry much more detail on the summary description.

So far, including scrolling through tonight's primetime shows, I have yet to see any info anywhere that lists an actor. It's always the plot.

The main big EPG gives at least two lines of 60 characters each. It may go to three or even four lines, but I couldn't find a show that used more than a line and a half.

The individual-channel EPG info of what you're watching brings up a box in the middle of the screen with multiple lines of about 50-55 characters per line. One show did start using a third line. Couldn't find any shows that used more, but it looks like they would fit if they did.

Time for a wow-factor: I hooked the second Pal to another TV with rabbit ears. One of those typical 6" circular ones with two extending antennas. The Pal signal dropped around 5-8 on the strength meter compared to the 6' or so antenna in the attic, but the shows seemed fine. (Only watched for a few minutes, though.) All stations are about 20 miles away; the land is pretty flat.

If memory serves, my HTPC Twinhan cards could barely pull a channel in using those rabbit ears. Either the Pal tuner is great, my Twinhan TV tuner cards are junk, or both.
post #48 of 822
Franchise - thanks for the info...

did you mention the type of TV(s) you are watching the DTVPal output on?
post #49 of 822
Thanks, Franchise. I know it's very regional whether you get something filled in or not. I don't pay attention to actors, so maybe I'll learn a few things. I've seen a few plots posted where they ran out of room, it was unexpectedly long.

Have fun with your new toy!
post #50 of 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by avnstf View Post

Franchise - thanks for the info...

did you mention the type of TV(s) you are watching the DTVPal output on?

They're both on analog TVs. One's a 32" Proscan. The other is on one of the greatest analog rear-projections ever made, the Toshiba A50. I think that's the name, anyway. Had it a long time. And it's still awesomesauce for anything non-HD.

If I get bored or curious, I'll hook it to the Sony rear-projection HDTV, but without other converter boxes, any comparisons might be moot since the only other HD available is from the HTPC, and there's no government coupons for those.
post #51 of 822
Yes, thanks for the info.

Does the guide only fill in info for different channels after you've visited them? I suppose you won't notice this for a while since you'll be playing with it and not leave it off long enough for it to lose the guide data.

On a Samsung 260, the thing will stop and turn blank while it flips through the channels to populate the guide. I wonder how the DTVPal handles this... just leave the unvisited channels blank... or maybe it can flip fast enough to not take several seconds to fill the guide... or hmm...

The other question is how does it feel for channel flipping/surfing? Pretty fast?
post #52 of 822
It all makes sense now.

I have a Panasonic DVD / HDD recorder. By passing through analoug, and allowing the TVGOS device to recive it's listings, it also allows it to add program info to my show.

So you just need a glink cable(IR BLASTER) it have it change channells on the DTV PAL.

However....

Does anyone know where I can get a G-Link cable online? I can't seem to find where to order one
post #53 of 822
channel flipping is FAST!!!!! I think it almost guesses what you want and starts doing it before your even done pushing the button.

It Prepopulates the guide data. And continues to fill it in as you watch. Picks up the guide from the other channels too.

If you are 'timering' a show it overrides the auto-shutoff. The auto-shutoff only goes into effect if the unit is inactive apparently a 'running' timer is active. Populates the guide while it off. Plus the possibility of 'software' updates via an agreement with local channels.

As far as I have been told. The Pal does NOTHING but pass the TVGOS through. I might be wrong now,,,,, but I don't think so...
post #54 of 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesToddA View Post

Does anyone know where I can get a G-Link cable online? I can't seem to find where to order one

Try here, the price seems reasonable: http://www.replacementremotes.com/st...TOKEN=44522344
post #55 of 822
Thread Starter 
with the channel master 7000 you can see what is on any channel up to days later but it does depend on the channel as to how much data it gives
post #56 of 822
Does it remember your zoom/aspect settings for each channel, or automagically pick good settings (like zoom a 4:3 show that's broadcast with black bars on the sides and then not zoom a 16:9 HD show)?

And also do you have to aim the remote exactly at the box, or do you get a fair amount of leeway on your remote aiming?
post #57 of 822
$11 including shipping seems like a good price.
Panasonic.com would be $23 including shipping for their IR blaster.
Thanks for the link Whidbey, I may be using it!
post #58 of 822
if you're asking about the Pal, it remembers what the last choice was for that channel. In my room it doesn't matter where I point the remote. In fact I can't see the Pal at all from the normal viewing position.
post #59 of 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootymonger View Post

Does it remember your zoom/aspect settings for each channel, or automagically pick good settings (like zoom a 4:3 show that's broadcast with black bars on the sides and then not zoom a 16:9 HD show)?

And also do you have to aim the remote exactly at the box, or do you get a fair amount of leeway on your remote aiming?

I'm just haphazardly aiming the remote in its general direction, and it works fine.

Aspect modes are a little weird so far. I don't know what PBS is broadcasting right now on its four non-HD channels, (the HD channel is off the air till primetime), but the shows on right now are in Full mode on the Pal, and I can't change it. They look ok, not stretched or anything, so maybe the Pal is pretty smart in that regard. I looked in the menu and don't see any kind of channel aspect lock, so I don't know what's up with PBS that they are stuck in Full.

Changing the aspect on other channels works fine, but it's a universal setting. I don't see any way to lock an aspect per channel at this time. In fact, if I'm on a current PBS channel that is stuck in Full, but I press the aspect button anyway and then switch channels, the next channel will be in a different mode than it was the last time.

In one person's review, they mentioned the normal mode can get an underscan-looking line at the top edge between the picture and the black bar. I didn't notice it yesterday, but it's there right now. So far I don't know when I'd ever use normal mode. Everything looks great in zoom mode (or current PBS stuck in Full mode). My HTPC has that line sometimes too, btw, and that's on a monitor and a different TV. Maybe it's a local broadcast thing or something.

Hmm, alright, now I'm curious enough and will hook it to my 16:9 HDTV to test.
post #60 of 822
you only get the aspect options on HD channels. don't forget Digital doesn't mean HD.
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