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Official Harman Kardon AVR 254 & 354 Owners Thread - Page 8

post #211 of 4487
7/14/08 at 9:53am
What was the price on the 254 @ Frys?
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post #212 of 4487
7/14/08 at 10:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by demenion View Post

What was the price on the 254 @ Frys?

My Fry's here in Austin has the 254 for $599 and the 354 for $799.
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post #213 of 4487
7/14/08 at 3:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by demenion View Post

What was the price on the 254 @ Frys?

$599
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post #214 of 4487
7/15/08 at 12:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fickerdm View Post

I verified all inputs. I also tried the suggested order of powering on: TV/FP first than the AVR then the source. Still no picture. I will be contacting support today.

I would really be interested to know if there is a solution. I like HK and am seriously considering 354, but my TV can only accept DVI. So I need to be able to run HDMI to DVI cable from the receiver. Please post if you find any solution.

I am currently running an external hdmi switch from Philips with hdmi-to-dvi to my Philips LCoS TV with no problems. I am switching my PS3, dish DVR vip622, samsung HD-961 DVD player through this external switch that I would like to consolidate w/ audio.
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post #215 of 4487
7/15/08 at 6:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptnaidu View Post

I would really be interested to know if there is a solution. I like HK and am seriously considering 354, but my TV can only accept DVI. So I need to be able to run HDMI to DVI cable from the receiver. Please post if you find any solution.

I am currently running an external hdmi switch from Philips with hdmi-to-dvi to my Philips LCoS TV with no problems. I am switching my PS3, dish DVR vip622, samsung HD-961 DVD player through this external switch that I would like to consolidate w/ audio.

HK support sent an email back indicating that the problem is with my TV (see below). However, I could connect the cable box (HDMI) directly to my TV (DVI) and could get video. So I think the problem is in the AVR. I now have the AVR connected to the TV via component and it works great.

HK response: "Unfortunately, the problem is with the DVI Hitachi TV. Some DVI TVs are not HDCP compliant, meaning that the copy protection software and communication needed for HDMI compatibility is not there. DVI-D is the format that would be compatible with HDMI. Being an older model TV,(yes, even a model from 2004 is considered an older model now as software changes) it may not have the correct software. I would recommend contacting Hitachi to see if there are any software upgrades that will allow HDMI to DVI compatibility."
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post #216 of 4487
7/15/08 at 8:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fickerdm View Post

HK support sent an email back indicating that the problem is with my TV (see below). However, I could connect the cable box (HDMI) directly to my TV (DVI) and could get video. So I think the problem is in the AVR. I now have the AVR connected to the TV via component and it works great.

HK response: "Unfortunately, the problem is with the DVI Hitachi TV. Some DVI TVs are not HDCP compliant, meaning that the copy protection software and communication needed for HDMI compatibility is not there. DVI-D is the format that would be compatible with HDMI. Being an older model TV,(yes, even a model from 2004 is considered an older model now as software changes) it may not have the correct software. I would recommend contacting Hitachi to see if there are any software upgrades that will allow HDMI to DVI compatibility."

But of course it's not the AVR's fault. It's always the fault of other components. I checked my TV and it is HDCP compatible but still no luck.
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post #217 of 4487
7/15/08 at 8:38am
If you'
re positive it's HDCP-enabled then call H/K and tell them **** off - if it's listed as HDCP then H/K should STFU and issue an apology and offer a solution ASAP.
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post #218 of 4487
7/15/08 at 9:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by T2k View Post

If you'
re positive it's HDCP-enabled then call H/K and tell them **** off - if it's listed as HDCP then H/K should STFU and issue an apology and offer a solution ASAP.

Jeez, who pissed in your mess kit this morning?
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post #219 of 4487
7/15/08 at 10:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by T2k View Post

If you'
re positive it's HDCP-enabled then call H/K and tell them **** off - if it's listed as HDCP then H/K should STFU and issue an apology and offer a solution ASAP.

You should try calling tech support in Canada. I'm 5 for 5 in getting a busy signal and holding for 15 minutes each time. No response to email inquiries either.
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post #220 of 4487
7/15/08 at 10:22am
If you really want to know it was the mail server.
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post #221 of 4487
7/15/08 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by altecdell View Post

You should try calling tech support in Canada. I'm 5 for 5 in getting a busy signal and holding for 15 minutes each time. No response to email inquiries either.

Call the US number, it's free anyway and they even pick it up.
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post #222 of 4487
7/15/08 at 12:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fickerdm View Post

HK support sent an email back indicating that the problem is with my TV (see below). However, I could connect the cable box (HDMI) directly to my TV (DVI) and could get video. So I think the problem is in the AVR. I now have the AVR connected to the TV via component and it works great.

HK response: "Unfortunately, the problem is with the DVI Hitachi TV. Some DVI TVs are not HDCP compliant, meaning that the copy protection software and communication needed for HDMI compatibility is not there. DVI-D is the format that would be compatible with HDMI. Being an older model TV,(yes, even a model from 2004 is considered an older model now as software changes) it may not have the correct software. I would recommend contacting Hitachi to see if there are any software upgrades that will allow HDMI to DVI compatibility."

Wow, that is not encouraging at all, especially after hearing from another member, aletcdell, above that even HDCP compliant TVs aren't working. I am going to try a 354 on my TV one of these days too. I will post my findings when I try. Thanks.
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post #223 of 4487
7/15/08 at 2:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptnaidu View Post

Wow, that is not encouraging at all, especially after hearing from another member, aletcdell, above that even HDCP compliant TVs aren't working. I am going to try a 354 on my TV one of these days too. I will post my findings when I try. Thanks.

I submitted my question twice (accidentally) to online support. Here is the answer from another support person placing blame on something other than the receiver.
"Good morning and thank you for your inquiry. The issue may be with the HDMI - DVI adapter. If possible try using another one. HDMI - DVI adapters introduce more conversion, which may conflict with HDCP and handshaking with HDMI."
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post #224 of 4487
7/15/08 at 6:58pm
I guess there are not too many problems with these AVR's since there isn't too many postings lately.
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post #225 of 4487
7/15/08 at 7:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fickerdm View Post

I submitted my question twice (accidentally) to online support. Here is the answer from another support person placing blame on something other than the receiver.
"Good morning and thank you for your inquiry. The issue may be with the HDMI - DVI adapter. If possible try using another one. HDMI - DVI adapters introduce more conversion, which may conflict with HDCP and handshaking with HDMI."

I tried that too but no good. Used a monoprice hdmi cable with a hdmi/dvi adaptor as well as a straight Monster HDMI/DVI cable (which I promptly returned of course).
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post #226 of 4487
7/15/08 at 7:44pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishLegend View Post

I guess there are not too many problems with these AVR's since there isn't too many postings lately.

LOL, these are HKs, right? This is the calm before the storm. I think things will kick off once these models are more readily available.
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post #227 of 4487
7/16/08 at 4:59am
I've had mine for a few weeks now, and I have to say that other than a few quirks (refuses to upconvert my xbox360), as long as I'm patient and don't mind waiting 10-15 seconds for HDMI sync the 254 is a joy to have around. Sounds great, looks great in the rack. I have to say that the gray static screen that pops up when HDMI is handshaking makes me nervous everytime after reading other accounts of bricking the think but so-far-so-good.
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post #228 of 4487
7/16/08 at 6:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by altecdell View Post

I tried that too but no good. Used a monoprice hdmi cable with a hdmi/dvi adaptor as well as a straight Monster HDMI/DVI cable (which I promptly returned of course).

Here is the lastest reply from HK support when I asked why I could get video when hooking the cable box directly to the TV via HDMI to DVI.

"That is a common question and one that is talked about in depth in HDMI training videos on the www.HDMI.org website. HDCP communication does not occur when connecting a source directly to a TV. It only comes into play when a recordable device, such as an AV Receiver is connected in between. This is a very common issue and one that I do not have another solution to. If you wish, I can point you to the section on the HDMI.org website where this is talked about. It also can occur when all HDMI components are used. Software is usually the answer."
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post #229 of 4487
7/16/08 at 6:59am
That is a valid response... the only way to prove that it is an H/K issue is to use another AVR and see if it is still happens. If it does then H/K needs to fix it. If it happens with another AVR then it needs to be fixed at the source.
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post #230 of 4487
7/16/08 at 8:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by myerss View Post

I've had mine for a few weeks now, and I have to say that other than a few quirks (refuses to upconvert my xbox360),

Are you talking about 1080i analog input to 1080p HDMI output? That's forbidden by the standard IIRC, thanks to your Hollywood/RIAA/MPAA mob-financed Congress.

Quote:


as long as I'm patient and don't mind waiting 10-15 seconds for HDMI sync the 254 is a joy to have around.

Wow, that's r-i-d-i-c-u-l-o-u-s-l-y long... it's every time when you change input or only when you power up your devices (bad enough already)?

Quote:


Sounds great, looks great in the rack. I have to say that the gray static screen that pops up when HDMI is handshaking makes me nervous everytime after reading other accounts of bricking the think but so-far-so-good.

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post #231 of 4487
7/16/08 at 8:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fickerdm View Post

Here is the lastest reply from HK support when I asked why I could get video when hooking the cable box directly to the TV via HDMI to DVI.

"That is a common question and one that is talked about in depth in HDMI training videos on the www.HDMI.org website. HDCP communication does not occur when connecting a source directly to a TV. It only comes into play when a recordable device, such as an AV Receiver is connected in between. This is a very common issue and one that I do not have another solution to. If you wish, I can point you to the section on the HDMI.org website where this is talked about. It also can occur when all HDMI components are used. Software is usually the answer."


How is an AV receiver a "recordable device?"
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post #232 of 4487
7/16/08 at 8:30am
I would have to assume they loosely meant that because it is able to transcode from one interface type to another it could be used to record.

Regardless HDCP crap is a bane upon all HT users and I anticipate it will only get worse.
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post #233 of 4487
7/16/08 at 9:36am
Yes, the industry really should seriously consider Displayport. All the advantages, none of the disadvantages (at least on the surface).
It will use optical or copper; I'd like to have video routed throughout my house via cheap optical fiber. Very cool.
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post #234 of 4487
7/16/08 at 9:51am
While I think Display Port is a better interface than HDMI and DVI it can support HDCP (as well as DPCP) which is at the root of the problems these users with DVI are seeing. If there weren't HDCP rolled in with HDMI/DVI I can say with a fair amount of confidence most problems like flickerdm is having would be eliminated. If nothing else, HK wouldn't be able to use it as an excuse and they would be able to focus on what is really causing the problem.

Sure, HDCP is the culmination of content providers trying to protect their content, but they are trying to protect it from people that bought their content.
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post #235 of 4487
7/16/08 at 9:53am
It's not the port, it's the ****in HDCP, this hack that supposed to provide unprecedented full control to the MPAA/RIAA mob over your media, in your house.

Current implementation is waaay beyond any reasonable legal standpoint, it's total control for these corporate entities and zero for you, thanks to our rotten, corrupt legislation and government.

Let's not get deeper into this or I will get very mad very fast.

PS: I see flabioh was faster - and nicer as well - than me...
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post #236 of 4487
7/16/08 at 9:56am
BTW I say everybody should buy a HDCP stripper, it should take care of this whole problem.
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post #237 of 4487
7/16/08 at 12:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmack500 View Post

Yes, the industry really should seriously consider Displayport. All the advantages, none of the disadvantages (at least on the surface).
It will use optical or copper; I'd like to have video routed throughout my house via cheap optical fiber. Very cool.

Displayport may be a good standard for PCs and excllant for HD video.
But what about audio and HD audio...
In the PC world, Is audio quality really important.
So now we are going to have to run 2 separate cables, 1 for HD video and 1 for HD audio while still including the HDCP validation required by the studio/content providers.

Maybe more thought has be done as Displayport to be consider as an HD video interface may be a step backward rather than going forward..

Just my $0.04...
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post #238 of 4487
7/16/08 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by T2k View Post


PS: I see flabioh was faster - and nicer as well - than me...

Oh, I'm definitely as ticked off about it as you, but I try to be a little more neutral.


Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Displayport may be a good standard for PCs and excllant for HD video.
But what about audio and HD audio...
In the PC world, Is audio quality really important.
So now we are going to have to run 2 separate cables, 1 for HD video and 1 for HD audio while still including the HDCP validation required by the studio/content providers.

Maybe more thought has be done as Displayport to be consider as an HD video interface may be a step backward rather than going forward..

Just my $0.04...

The latest I heard Displayport has around a 10 Gbit/s data rate at 3 meters. I believe it supports both video and audio signals. That should be plenty of bandwidth for 1080p and HD audio, right? If I'm not mistaken that is close to the HDMI 1.3 spec.
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post #239 of 4487
7/16/08 at 1:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by flabioh View Post

Oh, I'm definitely as ticked off about it as you, but I try to be a little more neutral.




The latest I heard Displayport has around a 10 Gbit/s data rate at 3 meters. I believe it supports both video and audio signals. That should be plenty of bandwidth for 1080p and HD audio, right? If I'm not mistaken that is close to the HDMI 1.3 spec.


The bandwidth of Displayport is quoted @ 10.8GHz, but in reviewing the Displayport.org website I failed to find any mention of audio or HD audio via Displayport..

It certainly seems possible but if the authors of the Displayport standard are only talking video we need to understand how audio or HD audio will be handled. As having video through Displayport but no audio seems like only 50% of the story..

Can you advise where you found the confirmation of audio via Displayport...

Just my $0.04...
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post #240 of 4487
7/16/08 at 2:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Just my $0.04...

You're gonna be up to a dollar and some change by the time either of these receivers actually show up in a Best Buy
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