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Pioneer 9G "buzz" poll (Elite and non-Elite) - Page 47

post #1381 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

I'd highly recommend NOT removing the back panel. Like every other manufacturer, I'm sure Pioneer would jump on any opportunity you give them to void your warranty. .

AGREE WITH PROGPROG!! DO NOT open the back as PIONEER will not honor their warranty. Unfortunately PIONEER has become very strict in following their WARRANTY VIOLATION STANDARDS now that they are dropping their TV business
post #1382 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

It can be deceptive, because noises from behind are usually bouncing off a wall. But if you really listen carefully and move around to "diagnose" the sound, you should be able to discern whether it's coming from the face of the panel itself or from the back of the TV.

FWIW, when my first panel had bad buzz, it came from a very specific location toward the top right of the screen. That experience seems to be typical of panel buzz: it doesn't emanate from the entire surface of the glass, and you can usually zero in on an exact location, which varies between panels. I also think the Energy modes are generally a good way to diagnose panel buzz. If switching to Energy mode 2 (Power Save 2) significantly reduces the buzz, that's probably panel buzz.

I would NOT use switching energy save mode as a test to know if its a panel or electronics buzz, because the energy save mode also lowers the requirements on the electronics and can affect that buzz as well, IMO.

Basically, if the back is accessible, do you hear the buzz more with your head a few inches from the front of the panel or the rear? If it's wall mounted, I guess putting your ear as close as possible to the wall and the rear of the unit will have to do...

*Scottyman*: I do not feel that the panel buzz is a 60Hz frequency. It does sound "electrical", but I think it's a higher frequency.

Dan.
post #1383 of 1626
On my new 500M, with Power Save modes off, there is some panel buzz but it is about the same as my older 4280 and really doesn't bother me that much.

That said, I have been thinking all along that (even with the D-Nice settings) the 500M is still a bit too bright in the brighter areas (compared to my previous 4280) for my dark basement. (The dynamic range of this panel really is amazing!)

I tried the Power Save 2 mode and I really like it!

This goes against everything I have seen in the settings threads and I did not use any of the power save modes with my 4280 but I am really liking the the way the picture looks with Mode 2 on my 500M.

As a bonus, the panel is totally quiet.

--M--
post #1384 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

[IMG]http://www.****************/img/i/P.jpg[/IMG]I'd highly recommend NOT removing the back panel. Like every other manufacturer, I'm sure Pioneer would jump on any opportunity you give them to void your warranty. It's sounding more and more like an electronics issue...which is fixable, so especially now, you don't want to mess with your warranty coverage.

Here's what I'd do:

First, if you have the option (i.e., you bought from a dealer with a good return policy), exchange the panel. It's new, so best to avoid the service run-around.

If that's not possible, get some other folks into your room and see if they hear it. (I'm not saying you don't, but it needs to be pretty obvious before Pioneer will even acknowledge it.) Call Pioneer and get a service tech to come out. Emphasize that you think the noise comes from the back and has gotten worse. (If you talk panel buzz, the tech will conveniently not be able to hear it.) My guess is that they will replace whatever part they believe is causing it.[IMG]http://***************/9/P/i.jpg[/IMG]

+100
Best advice in the thread..definitely do not try to do anything yourself unless you are sure!
post #1385 of 1626
So far my 111FD has no panel buzz at all, and the sort of "electronic device is on" hum is only audible with my ears right at the back of the set. This is better than my 11150HD, which had hum (not panel buzz) audible as you got near the back of the set.
post #1386 of 1626
You would think with tech today buzzing fans would be ancient. Time to hire a new fan supplier.
post #1387 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjrgamer View Post

You would think with tech today buzzing fans would be ancient. Time to hire a new fan supplier.

This is about panel buzz and electronics buzz; it has absolutely nothing to do with the fans. Most people never even know if/when their fans come on.
post #1388 of 1626
My 151FD (Feb, 2009) is going through the break-in process right now, and I can hear the buzz behind the panel. When I'm at the normal viewing position, I cannot hear the buzz.

I also notice the buzz is especially louder when the white break-in image is showing, not so with red/green/blue.
post #1389 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonardo629 View Post

My 151FD (Feb, 2009) is going through the break-in process right now, and I can hear the buzz behind the panel. When I'm at the normal viewing position, I cannot hear the buzz.

I also notice the buzz is especially louder when the white break-in image is showing, not so with red/green/blue.

This looks normal. You should be fine after break in and not notice it as much
post #1390 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROMAN O View Post

This looks normal. You should be fine after break in and not notice it as much

+1 Sounds like very normal behavior for a good panel. Enjoy!
post #1391 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by info_dan View Post

I would NOT use switching energy save mode as a test to know if its a panel or electronics buzz, because the energy save mode also lowers the requirements on the electronics and can affect that buzz as well, IMO.

Basically, if the back is accessible, do you hear the buzz more with your head a few inches from the front of the panel or the rear? If it's wall mounted, I guess putting your ear as close as possible to the wall and the rear of the unit will have to do...

*Scottyman*: I do not feel that the panel buzz is a 60Hz frequency. It does sound "electrical", but I think it's a higher frequency.

Dan.

The 111 is mounted on its stand 2ft from the wall.
The buzz is coming from the top right rear, but reflects off the wall towards the listening position.
Download a tone generator (free--NCH Tone Generator) and select 60Hz Impluse. It's VERY close. 60HZ impulse is much different than the typical 60HZ Sine we often hear.


I'm not going to exchange it as I'd have to drive 270 miles. Maine has no Magnolia stores.
I'll give it a few more weeks and see if anything changes before I decide to call Pioneer.
post #1392 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottyman View Post

The 111 is mounted on its stand 2ft from the wall.
The buzz is coming from the top right rear, but reflects off the wall towards the listening position.
Download a tone generator (free--NCH Tone Generator) and select 60Hz Impluse. It's VERY close. 60HZ impulse is much different than the typical 60HZ Sine we often hear.


I'm not going to exchange it as I'd have to drive 270 miles. Maine has no Magnolia stores.
I'll give it a few more weeks and see if anything changes before I decide to call Pioneer.

With that information, I'd definitely call Pioneer right away, while the problem can be heard. If it goes away, you'll have a hard time getting a proper repair, and a problem that goes away by itself can come back by itself...
post #1393 of 1626
I can find no evidence that anyone has ever *measured* this buzz. Surely someone has a db meter (I admit to not knowing where mine is at this precise moment) and has measured ambient sound levels with TV on and off...?!

If someone can point me to the post, I'd sure appreciate it.

Nervous prospective 500M owner...
-Dave
post #1394 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman4 View Post

AGREE WITH PROGPROG!! DO NOT open the back as PIONEER will not honor their warranty. Unfortunately PIONEER has become very strict in following their WARRANTY VIOLATION STANDARDS now that they are dropping their TV business

Does opening up the ISF modes void warranty?
post #1395 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

Does opening up the ISF modes void warranty?


No. The ControlCal program was created with Pioneer's cooperation, IIRC.
post #1396 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by dnavas View Post

I can find no evidence that anyone has ever *measured* this buzz. Surely someone has a db meter (I admit to not knowing where mine is at this precise moment) and has measured ambient sound levels with TV on and off...?!

If someone can point me to the post, I'd sure appreciate it.

Nervous prospective 500M owner...
-Dave

The buzz level is too low for most meters. The most common (Radio Shack) start measuring at 50 db, which is a "normal conversation" volume. If you have a TV that, with audio off, is as loud as a normal conversation, then you don't need a meter to know you have a problem .

I would not be nervous at all, the buzz is usually much less an issue on 50".

Dan.
post #1397 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by info_dan View Post

The buzz level is too low for most meters. The most common (Radio Shack) start measuring at 50 db....

I would not be nervous at all, the buzz is usually much less an issue on 50".

Dan.

Dan -- appreciate the feedback. I found my meter and ran some tests. I now figure the only appropriate way to make this kind of test would be some kind of frequency-specific measurement. Fluorescent bathroom light humming (for example) only registered another db or so from a couple of feet away, and the difference there is certainly audible from further away.

However, I'll do any measuring I can and report back.

Now I can only wait and be nervous, though. I have ordered a 500M to replace my 15 year old TV and a surround sound system (first ever). Quite an adventure!

-Dave

PS: Now I have to do something about my 12 year-old DVHS system that's no longer receiving DISH ... And the lack of an OTA ATSC tuner .... [sigh] Gonna miss the grandfathered a-la-carte pricing.
post #1398 of 1626
I haven't done measurements with different types of display images, but the sound level of my 500M's buzzing from two inches away is about the same as a typical cheesy under-counter fluorescent from about two feet away. My db meter rises from somewhere around 49db to about 50db when the tv goes on when measured at a distance of one inch (this would be a better measurement if my fridge would ever turn off ). From about 12-14 feet away, I can definitely tell the TV is on. It is somewhat more noticeable than the CRT squeal it replaces (which I could *usually* tell was on, but not always). I could see how it might be annoying to some people -- especially if you are located in a real dedicated home-theater room that didn't have "sonic distractions". In my room, the fridge on the far side of the double-room is much louder, the tape sliding in my VCR is louder. The fan on my DVD-R is louder. I'll have to see how the sound envelope changes as the TV ages, but hopefully this helps someone else out there.

-Dave

Edit: 40db --> 42db when fridge is off. All measurements are approximate. I find it interesting how the sonic drop-off is very steep as you move your face away from the panel....
post #1399 of 1626
Hi Folks,
Thank you all so much for all of your most excellent insight and contributions on this forum.

I have a 151 which is on an AV furniture stand. The TV is currently about 1' from the wall. At the moment I can hear the Buzz about 17" away in my seating position, it is really loud at night. I called Pioneer and they sent their local service rep who did the so called 6' test (i.e. if they can hear the buzz 6' away), of course the rep was some old dude who was about 65 and of course I got a call 3 days later saying the technician couldn't hear anything and that the buzzing is a normal part of the technology.

The question I would like to ask is if anybody has seen any significant decrease in buzzing by mounting the TV on the wall (I'm considering recessing it if I can), or found some way of dampening the buzz or even looked into other electronic sound dampening equipment.

Many thanks,
post #1400 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFO_GUY View Post

Hi Folks,
Thank you all so much for all of your most excellent insight and contributions on this forum.

I have a 151 which is on an AV furniture stand. The TV is currently about 1' from the wall. At the moment I can hear the Buzz about 17" away in my seating position, it is really loud at night. I called Pioneer and they sent their local service rep who did the so called 6' test (i.e. if they can hear the buzz 6’ away), of course the rep was some old dude who was about 65 and of course I got a call 3 days later saying the technician couldn't hear anything and that the buzzing is a normal part of the technology.

The question I would like to ask is if anybody has seen any significant decrease in buzzing by mounting the TV on the wall (I’m considering recessing it if I can), or found some way of dampening the buzz or even looked into other electronic sound dampening equipment.

Many thanks,

Anecdotally, based on the past year's postings on this thread, it doesn't seem to make a difference. The buzz comes from the face of the panel, which almost acts like a parabolic dish directing the sound at the seating position. So there's no "bouncing" off the rear wall that would be dampened by mounting or distance.

I assume you mean you hear it 17 feet away. Which Energy Mode are you using, and do any of the modes make a difference?
post #1401 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Anecdotally, based on the past year's postings on this thread, it doesn't seem to make a difference. The buzz comes from the face of the panel, which almost acts like a parabolic dish directing the sound at the seating position. So there's no "bouncing" off the rear wall that would be dampened by mounting or distance.

I assume you mean you hear it 17 feet away. Which Energy Mode are you using, and do any of the modes make a difference?

Thank you for the correction - yes I'm 17' away.

I'm using Power Save Mode 2, It just drops the frequency of the buzz a bit but still very audible, my environment probably doesn't help, plaster walls, hardwood floors (old Edwardian flat)...

I was think some sort of custom install/sound proofing may help as the major buzzing seems to be coming from the rear
post #1402 of 1626
I'm going to try a 3" layer of pyramid Hushfoam behind the set to minimize the buzz bouncing off the wall. (Buzz only coming from the rear)
I'll let you know how effective it is.
post #1403 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottyman View Post

I'm going to try a 3" layer of pyramid Hushfoam behind the set to minimize the buzz bouncing off the wall. (Buzz only coming from the rear)
I'll let you know how effective it is.

If noise from the back of the panel is loud enough to be bothersome several feet away at your seating position, I'd call Pioneer service and get the electronics checked out. It shouldn't be that loud, and you shouldn't have to go to such lengths trying to attenuate it. (I'd guess most owners have their panels standing within a foot or two of the rear wall, and there are very few complaints about that kind of noise.)
post #1404 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFO_GUY View Post

Thank you for the correction - yes I'm 17' away.

I'm using Power Save Mode 2, It just drops the frequency of the buzz a bit but still very audible, my environment probably doesn't help, plaster walls, hardwood floors (old Edwardian flat)...

I was think some sort of custom install/sound proofing may help as the major buzzing seems to be coming from the rear

Try to call (or e-mail, for a written trace) Pioneer again and explain that your buzz is coming from the rear. The buzz that's "included in the technology" is the panel buzz (coming from the front), but you seem to have an electronics buzz. Also, explain to them that the service guy that came did not seem to have an "optimal" hearing...

How long have you had your set? Any possibility of exchange?

Dan.
post #1405 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by info_dan View Post

Try to call (or e-mail, for a written trace) Pioneer again and explain that your buzz is coming from the rear. The buzz that's "included in the technology" is the panel buzz (coming from the front), but you seem to have an electronics buzz. Also, explain to them that the service guy that came did not seem to have an "optimal" hearing...

How long have you had your set? Any possibility of exchange?

Dan.

+1

SFO_GUY....you didn't mention in your OP that the noise comes from the back of the panel. That's a completely different thing from panel buzz. Take Dan's advice and call service again.
post #1406 of 1626
Just received my panel last week 600m, and at first my panel was annoyingly loud, with power save 2 on it gets noticably quieter, and whats weird is when i select picture off it goes away, but when I back out the menu of course the picture turns off. Not sure why that is. The buzz is heard from behind the set and sitting directly in front of the tv, if you're off to the side it's not audible. I've been breaking in my set for approx close to 50 hrs now, and at about 40 hrs I switched it back to standard and as i was watching a movie yesterday i couldn't hear the buzz at all except for when bright scenes were being displayed. So it looks like i'm okay with my set, just wanted to share the experience for the other folks worried that some buzz is normal and will get quiet enough to wear you don't even pay attention to it anymore. also this is my first plasma switching from lcd.
post #1407 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chhuong View Post

Just received my panel last week 600m, and at first my panel was annoyingly loud, with power save 2 on it gets noticably quieter, and whats weird is when i select picture off it goes away, but when I back out the menu of course the picture turns off. Not sure why that is. The buzz is heard from behind the set and sitting directly in front of the tv, if you're off to the side it's not audible. I've been breaking in my set for approx close to 50 hrs now, and at about 40 hrs I switched it back to standard and as i was watching a movie yesterday i couldn't hear the buzz at all except for when bright scenes were being displayed. So it looks like i'm okay with my set, just wanted to share the experience for the other folks worried that some buzz is normal and will get quiet enough to wear you don't even pay attention to it anymore. also this is my first plasma switching from lcd.

Congrats on your new TV, Chhuong. If I read correctly, you said the buzz goes away when you turn the picture OFF. That makes sense, because the pixels aren't doing anything then.

I do think it's best to evaluate the buzz level, and whether it's excessive, when you're actually watching content at normal levels. As you've discovered, that can be very different from "listening" to the break-in images in a quiet room.
post #1408 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

If I read correctly, you said the buzz goes away when you turn the picture OFF. That makes sense, because the pixels aren't doing anything then.

Well let me rephrase that so it doesn't confuse anyone else, in the energy level settings i have 4 settings : standard, mode 1, mode 2, and picture off.
If i select picture off, the buzz will completely go away while the screen is still on. But the picture only goes off when I back out of that menu. Not sure why that is. Hopefully this time it makes more sense.
post #1409 of 1626
info_dan & progprog,

Thank you for the advice, I've had my panel since March, so unfortunately I'm well out of return period with BestBuy. The buzz seemed to have gotten worse with time. The buzz from the front sounds like a mosquito zapper, which I cannot hear from my seating position, The buzz from the rear like a fridge motor. I also find my buzz gets louder the longer I watch the set (maybe as it gets hotter). As a test I draped a comforter over the back of the set last night and it made a huge difference, though I'm sure it is not good for heat dissipation and not to be recommended as any sort of solution.

I will give Pioneer another try

Thanks again
post #1410 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFO_GUY View Post

info_dan & progprog,

Thank you for the advice, I've had my panel since March, so unfortunately I'm well out of return period with BestBuy. The buzz seemed to have gotten worse with time. The buzz from the front sounds like a mosquito zapper, which I cannot hear from my seating position, The buzz from the rear like a fridge motor. I also find my buzz gets louder the longer I watch the set (maybe as it gets hotter). As a test I draped a comforter over the back of the set last night and it made a huge difference, though I'm sure it is not good for heat dissipation and not to be recommended as any sort of solution.

I will give Pioneer another try

Thanks again

Definitely. This is sounding more & more like an electronics issue; wouldn't surprise me if the power supply is failing or something like that. The good news is that it's probably repairable, unlike panel buzz.
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