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Pioneer 9G "buzz" poll (Elite and non-Elite) - Page 48

post #1411 of 1626
Pioneer ended up just refunding me all my money for my 111FD and I went straight to best buy and bought another...and it does not buzz from the back like the 1st set. I had to be incredibly persistent and called daily for a resolution...it paid off.

In the end, Pioneer basically said I was crazy and there was no buzz, and recommended not to buy another one. I just thanked them and am now enjoying buzz free viewing!
post #1412 of 1626
Hello

I have a Samsung PN63B590 that has really loud electronic buzz coming from the back, but I can't hear any panel buzz if I put my ear right up against the front of the screen. Only from the back. I can hear the buzz from the seating position 12' away during quiet scenes, but it seems to be mostly reflecting off the back wall.

Now, I know I can treat the back wall and reduce that sound.


But I have the option of returning it and getting the 141FD. I really want the better blacks, but I am concerned that I will end up with this "panel buzz" from the front that may be harder to deal with than the electronic buzz from my samsung. Picture on the sammy is excellent but the black levels at night time are lacking compared to what I expected.


Obviously the 141 has got the better blacks, but do you think I'll be better off with a 141 in the noise department?

I read over 30 pages of the official 141 thread and half of this thread but It's still hard to get a feel for whether most people are getting sound from the front or the back, people don't always specify if they tried putting their ears right against the front panel vs the back to make sure they aren't hearing reflections off the back wall.

FWIW I compared the 141 and Samsung B590 at BB and the 141 was barely audible in the back and not at all in the front while I could hear the samsung pretty clearly.

Thanks for any input.
post #1413 of 1626
Only on the back of my set do I hear buzz on my 500M.
post #1414 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ictusbrucks View Post

Hello

I have a Samsung PN63B590 that has really loud electronic buzz coming from the back, but I can't hear any panel buzz if I put my ear right up against the front of the screen. Only from the back. I can hear the buzz from the seating position 12' away during quiet scenes, but it seems to be mostly reflecting off the back wall.

Now, I know I can treat the back wall and reduce that sound.


But I have the option of returning it and getting the 141FD. I really want the better blacks, but I am concerned that I will end up with this "panel buzz" from the front that may be harder to deal with than the electronic buzz from my samsung. Picture on the sammy is excellent but the black levels at night time are lacking compared to what I expected.


Obviously the 141 has got the better blacks, but do you think I'll be better off with a 141 in the noise department?

I read over 30 pages of the official 141 thread and half of this thread but It's still hard to get a feel for whether most people are getting sound from the front or the back, people don't always specify if they tried putting their ears right against the front panel vs the back to make sure they aren't hearing reflections off the back wall.

FWIW I compared the 141 and Samsung B590 at BB and the 141 was barely audible in the back and not at all in the front while I could hear the samsung pretty clearly.

Thanks for any input.

The most important thing here is that you're unhappy with your current set. That alone is reason to return it, regardless what you replace it with.

As for the Kuros, I think the odds are heavily in your favor of getting one that does NOT have excessive buzz. As you've learned with the Sammy, when noise is annoying, it's REALLY annoying. This is just as true of the Kuros and you can read all about it in this thread. But, my honest impression is that most panels are fantastic performers, and their owners are completely happy with them from the second they turn them on.

I say "go for it!"
post #1415 of 1626
Ok well BestBuy agreed to price match a 141FD which isn't too much more than my samsung, so I decided to return the PN63B590 for a 141FD. They come Tuesday to make the swap.

I'm going to miss the unique styling of the of the clear acrylic trim around the samsung bezel, but I have to say I'm very excited about the Kuro. I hope the Kuro performs as well in daylight conditions as the Samsung.

However, they said they have my set in the store, I wonder if they will let me go into the back tomorrow and unpack it enough to run a white screen so I can make sure I'll be getting a better set out of the box.

I have a Sanus articulating mount, if the 3" size decrease bugs me I guess I'll just move the screen forward a few inches. Nice to know I won't necessarily sacrafice size either.
post #1416 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ictusbrucks View Post

Ok well BestBuy agreed to price match a 141FD to $4200 which isn't too much more than my samsung, so I decided to return the PN63B590 for a 141FD. They come Tuesday to make the swap.

I'm going to miss the unique styling of the of the clear acrylic trim around the samsung bezel, but I have to say I'm very excited about the Kuro. I hope the Kuro performs as well in daylight conditions as the Samsung.

However, they said they have my set in the store, I wonder if they will let me go into the back tomorrow and unpack it enough to run a white screen so I can make sure I'll be getting a better set out of the box.

I have a Sanus articulating mount, if the 3" size decrease bugs me I guess I'll just move the screen forward a few inches. Nice to know I won't necessarily sacrafice size either.


First of all, you will be very happy with the 141. Just to be clear, you don't need attached speakers?

BTW, that's a nice price for the 141 so it worked out perfectly for you. But I am surprised you said the price is close to the Samsung. Its about $400 from list, but BB does much more discounting of the Samsung's than they seem to do of the Pioneers. I never got them to the price I wanted (based on other posters best deals) for the 151, but I got them WAY lower on the 590 -- like 3X the delta between the list price and what you paid for the 141. So I wouldn't say they are in the same category street-price-wise.

Again, congrats on your purchase.
post #1417 of 1626
Well, It's not as much more as I thought it would be anyways And I also probably could have been more aggressive getting a discount on the Sammy prior... but its moot now.



I definitely do not need speakers. Just recently set up my Pioneer SC-05 AVR and B&W XT2s... Very happy there but the rooms in dire need of acoustic treatments next.


The photo makes the blacks on the sammy look better than they really are. In reality the letterbox is pretty glowy.
post #1418 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ictusbrucks View Post

Well, It's not as much more as I thought it would be anyways And I also probably could have been more aggressive getting a discount on the Sammy prior... but its moot now.



I definitely do not need speakers. Just recently set up my Pioneer SC-05 AVR and B&W XT2s... Very happy there but the rooms in dire need of acoustic treatments next.


The photo makes the blacks on the sammy look better than they really are. In reality the letterbox is pretty glowy.

You shouldn't have "glowy" black bars with the Pioneer. I think it'll look great in that spot. If you don't need the internal amps, stand, or internal tuners, the 141 seems like an excellent choice. (BTW, you might want to edit the pricing from your post....non-MSRP price talk is verboten here. )
post #1419 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ictusbrucks View Post

Ok well BestBuy agreed to price match a 141FD which isn't too much more than my samsung, so I decided to return the PN63B590 for a 141FD. They come Tuesday to make the swap.

I'm going to miss the unique styling of the of the clear acrylic trim around the samsung bezel, but I have to say I'm very excited about the Kuro. I hope the Kuro performs as well in daylight conditions as the Samsung.

However, they said they have my set in the store, I wonder if they will let me go into the back tomorrow and unpack it enough to run a white screen so I can make sure I'll be getting a better set out of the box.

I have a Sanus articulating mount, if the 3" size decrease bugs me I guess I'll just move the screen forward a few inches. Nice to know I won't necessarily sacrafice size either.

I have both a 111 and 151 and these sets do have some panel buzz but with power save mode 2 it is inaudible on my 111. Not sure yet on the 151, but I expect a touch more on the 151, since the panel is larger. I would be all TVs have some sort of noise.
post #1420 of 1626
Well today is the day I should be getting my 141.

I told them to try and do the earliest delivery today they could, but they unfortunately gave me the 12:30 - 2:30 time window which means I'm at work and my wife is home.

I told her to sign "Pending inspection" and to see if she can't get it plugged in while still in the box to check on the buzz for me. Wish us luck!
post #1421 of 1626
ok nevermind... they came right at 12:30 so I was able to jet home on a lunch break.

I put in a break-in DVD with white screen and heard panel buzzing coming from the front near the bottom, as well as the normal buzzing from the back. I'd say front and back are about equal. This is very disappointing because my Samsung was absolutely silent along the front (although MUCH louder in the back).

I can definitely hear the buzzing from 12' away, and so could my wife and mother-in-law who were both there. Of course both delivery guys conveniently couldn't hear anything. I think its a bit worse than the Samsung was from the seating position.

Either way, I already called BB and they will order another replacement 141FD. The blacks of this TV blow away the Samsung even during the daytime. Can't wait to see the set at night time. I'm also open to the possibility that I won't hear the buzz with normal programming since it seems to drop dramatically when the break-in disk switches to non-white screens.
post #1422 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ictusbrucks View Post

ok nevermind... they came right at 12:30 so I was able to jet home on a lunch break.

I put in a break-in DVD with white screen and heard panel buzzing coming from the front near the bottom, as well as the normal buzzing from the back. I'd say front and back are about equal. This is very disappointing because my Samsung was absolutely silent along the front (although MUCH louder in the back).

I can definitely hear the buzzing from 12' away, and so could my wife and mother-in-law who were both there. Of course both delivery guys conveniently couldn't hear anything. I think its a bit worse than the Samsung was from the seating position.

Either way, I already called BB and they will order another replacement 141FD. The blacks of this TV blow away the Samsung even during the daytime. Can't wait to see the set at night time. I'm also open to the possibility that I won't hear the buzz with normal programming since it seems to drop dramatically when the break-in disk switches to non-white screens.

Next time try Power Save Mode 2..the buzz will be nearly non-existent.

I have a 151 and on Power Save off at low TV volumes or very quiet scenes I can hear the buzz. The difference in the picture between PS off/mode 2 IMHO is so small it is not worth considering.

At first just like my 111, I thought my 151 had no buzz but after 2 days of use, I started to hear it at times(actually the 151 is less with my TV on than 111). I just turned on PS mode 2 and will never look back. The interesting thing is when I enter setup menu the buzz is more audible no matter the setting(ie off, mode 1/2), which is a primarily black screen.

I have very sensitive hearing and the buzz annoys me, my wife and son who I never pointed the buzz out too, have never made a comment.

The 111 and 151 as well as the 101/141 are just fantastic TVs, dont let the buzz bother you. Just set the PS to mode 2 and activate ISF setting if you can on the 141.

Did BB take the TV back or leave it?
post #1423 of 1626
thanks.
they said they will get another one ordered and call me back today with details.

They knew beforehand that I was replacing the samsung due to buzz and they promised to work with me to find a set that works for me even if it means going through multiple TVs. As somebody else pointed out they still have a comfy profit margin on open-box items, especially since not all customers push for price matching etc.


But I will try powersave2... I was hoping to not have to rely on that but maybe I should just live with it. Unfortunately I'm not at home anymore but I wish I was
post #1424 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ictusbrucks View Post

thanks.
they said they will get another one ordered and call me back today with details.

They knew beforehand that I was replacing the samsung due to buzz and they promised to work with me to find a set that works for me even if it means going through multiple TVs. As somebody else pointed out they still have a comfy profit margin on open-box items, especially since not all customers push for price matching etc.


But I will try powersave2... I was hoping to not have to rely on that but maybe I should just live with it. Unfortunately I'm not at home anymore but I wish I was

I'm not one to defend BB in any way, but you should really try to meet them halfway here, and not leave them with a bunch of open-box TVs unnecessarily. Let me explain.

I truly believe you could take virtually ANY Pioneer 9G plasma, play a solid white image with Power Mode OFF, listen for buzz, and hear it very easily from 12-15' away. This is an unnatural and unfair test.

You really need to set the panel up in its intended location, play normal content that you'd typically watch at the normal volumes you use, and sit in your expected seating location. Then, try the different Power Modes. While the buzz on a small number of panels is truly excessive (I know this....I had one once ), the vast majority will be effectively silent under these conditions in Power Mode 2. Many will be silent, depending on both the panel and your hearing sensitivity, with Power Mode OFF as well.
post #1425 of 1626
ok I hear what you are saying. I will keep all that in mind tonight as I try the TV with actual content. The REAL test is listening to dialogue, since buzzing is most annoying to me during dialogue.

My intent isn't to screw BestBuy in any way, but you have to understand that I got this set to replace a Samsung that was buzzing badly, and this one is in some ways worse as far as the white-image test goes because its so directional. The jury is still out when it comes to actual movies etc. But I did still notice the buzz when the break-in DVD displayed a gray-screen. However, with a pure red screen I could hear almost nothing.... maybe indicating it shifted the frequency of the buzz out of my hearing range.

Yes I knew there was a chance the Kuro would buzz but seems less widespread with Kuros; Also, I listened carefully at the store and their Kuro was much quieter with a white screen... I know its easy to say its just a different listening environment.... but their Samsung was just as loud as mine so I think I would've heard the Kuro also since the noise level from MY two sets is similar (as in, from viewing position, both Kuro and Samsung I tried had a very similiar buzz level whereas at BB there was a pronounced difference).
post #1426 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ictusbrucks View Post

ok I hear what you are saying. I will keep all that in mind tonight as I try the TV with actual content.

My intent isn't to screw BestBuy in any way, but you have to understand that I got this set to replace a Samsung that was buzzing badly, and this one is in some ways worse as far as the white-image test goes because its so directional. The jury is still out when it comes to actual movies etc. But I did still notice the buzz when the break-in DVD displayed a gray-screen. However, with a pure red screen I could hear almost nothing.... maybe indicating it shifted the frequency of the buzz out of my hearing range.

Yes I knew there was a chance the Kuro would buzz but seems less widespread with Kuros; Also, I listening carefully at the store and their Kuro is much quieter with a white screen... I know its easy to say its just a different listening environment.... but their Samsung was just as loud as mine so I think I would've heard the Kuro also since the noise level from MY two sets is similar (as in, from viewing position, both Kuro and Samsung I tried had a very similiar buzz level).

I do understand the disappointment....believe me. FWIW, I can generate an annoying buzz on both my panels, if I try, with solid images. (I'm starting to think that evangelo should have put an audio track on the break-in disc! ) But I have had one for a year, and the other for six months, and we never, ever hear a buzz in normal usage. The 151 requires Power Mode 2 to attain the quiet level I want, the 111 does not (though I still use Power Mode 2 on it just out of preference).

The listening environment thing is frustrating. I honestly could never hear it from any of the panels at Magnolia, no matter how hard I tried. I even had the salesman lower all audio as much as possible, but I suspect the ambient noise was still enough to mask it somehow.
post #1427 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

I do understand the disappointment....believe me. FWIW, I can generate an annoying buzz on both my panels, if I try, with solid images. (I'm starting to think that evangelo should have put an audio track on the break-in disc! ) But I have had one for a year, and the other for six months, and we never, ever hear a buzz in normal usage. The 151 requires Power Mode 2 to attain the quiet level I want, the 111 does not (though I still use Power Mode 2 on it just out of preference).

The listening environment thing is frustrating. I honestly could never hear it from any of the panels at Magnolia, no matter how hard I tried. I even had the salesman lower all audio as much as possible, but I suspect the ambient noise was still enough to mask it somehow.

Here is the funny thing right now on my 151...the black screens seem to buzz more than a bright white scene(esp the setup menu screen) in Power Save OFF. Like i said while watching 2 1/2 men last night I noticed in the OFF setting in several quite dialog scenes I could hear the buzz lightly and knowing it was there all I did was listen for it(OCD for sure). If I set my VSX-01 receiver to higher volume which I would call a more normal level it get very hard to pick-up 95% of the time. With PS mode 2 I cant hear it in normal use but I am sure trying.

I cant believe any plasma has no buzz at all....given the tech I would expect some noise. My RPTV has a bit of noise but I never OCD on it, not sure why. My DVR has noise that makes it diffucult to tell if it is the TV or the DVR in a super quiet room.

The picture is too beautiful on these sets not to use Power Save feature in mode 2 and never hear the buzz unless you sit on top of the TV 2 inches away.

Try a blu-ray movie or high def channel you like and the other stuff just sort of goes away. Be happy there are no dead or stuck pixels...my 111 has one of these but knowing it is there is more annoying than using mode 2.
post #1428 of 1626
BTW, I am not trying to dismiss the buzz issue, I understand very well how it can deter from the experience. There are many frequencies that really bother me but not my wife...

But try it first and you maybe surprised with the actual performance.
post #1429 of 1626
well I'm still not home but my wife has been watching TV and she said she hears the buzz still..... usually she could not hear the buzz from the samsung after watching something, so something about the Kuro's front-buzz makes it more noticeable to her. not so promising since I hear the buzzing more than she does. powersave modes haven't been tried yet since she doesnt want to mess with settings without me.
post #1430 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ictusbrucks View Post

well I'm still not home but my wife has been watching TV and she said she hears the buzz still..... usually she could not hear the buzz from the samsung after watching something, so something about the Kuro's front-buzz makes it more noticeable to her. not so promising since I hear the buzzing more than she does. powersave modes haven't been tried yet since she doesnt want to mess with settings without me.

It's easy to change it, if you want her to try: Menu>Setup>Power Control>Energy Save=Mode 2
post #1431 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

i'm not one to defend bb in any way, but you should really try to meet them halfway here, and not leave them with a bunch of open-box tvs unnecessarily. Let me explain.

I truly believe you could take virtually any pioneer 9g plasma, play a solid white image with power mode off, listen for buzz, and hear it very easily from 12-15' away. This is an unnatural and unfair test.

You really need to set the panel up in its intended location, play normal content that you'd typically watch at the normal volumes you use, and sit in your expected seating location. Then, try the different power modes. While the buzz on a small number of panels is truly excessive (i know this....i had one once ), the vast majority will be effectively silent under these conditions in power mode 2. Many will be silent, depending on both the panel and your hearing sensitivity, with power mode off as well.

+1 Very well summarized.
post #1432 of 1626
Ok well I just had a chance to do some more messing with the TV and settings.

I hear two distinct buzzes. There's a lower frequency buzz thats there even with a black image onscreen, and then theres the higher pitched frequency that changes with screen brightness.

I tried powersave2, and it does make a noticeable difference to the buzz frequency, mostly when the screen is bright. When the screen is not full-bright, powersave2 didn't do that much, it makes the buzz a bit lower-frequency but it is still right there in my head from 12 feet.

I do not live in a quiet house. And I am not striving for a silent theater room. About 15feet away is a 220 gallon reeftank with pumps, powerheads and plumbing, and a refrigerator.

But this buzz gets on my nerves while watching the Dark Knight even on powersave2. Something about it makes me want to 'pop' my ears like you do when scuba diving.
post #1433 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ictusbrucks View Post

Ok well I just had a chance to do some more messing with the TV and settings.

I hear two distinct buzzes. There's a lower frequency buzz thats there even with a black image onscreen, and then theres the higher pitched frequency that changes with screen brightness.

I tried powersave2, and it does make a noticeable difference to the buzz frequency, mostly when the screen is bright. When the screen is not full-bright, powersave2 didn't do that much, it makes the buzz a bit lower-frequency but it is still right there in my head from 12 feet.

I do not live in a quiet house. And I am not striving for a silent theater room. About 15feet away is a 220 gallon reeftank with pumps, powerheads and plumbing, and a refrigerator.

But this buzz gets on my nerves while watching the Dark Knight even on powersave2. Something about it makes me want to 'pop' my ears like you do when scuba diving.

wow, your more sensitive than I am. I wonder if all Pioneer sets will have this iisue for you?

Good Luck, I sure hope the next one fixes the issue.
post #1434 of 1626
I couldn't detect anything from the screen from the 141 at magnolia, I moved my ear closely ear along the screen and couldn't detect it. However I COULD hear the buzz from behind their TV. Then in my house the front and rear seem equally audible.

I talked to the magnolia people and they are going to put their 141 into the quiet sound demo room tomorrow so I can listen to it and compare it in a quieter setting. Chances are the reason you can't hear the panel buzz as well in the store is that there are dozens of other devices buzzing at different and/or similar frequences either cancelling or creating a kind of white noise that is less distinct.


However.... I set my brightness to -15 and it seemed to reduce the buzz more than powersave2 in some 'darkly lit' movie scenes, and it made the contrast look much better. Didn't affect the whites as much which is a visual plus. A pure white screen is a true rarity in content so I won't fuss over the buzz being loud on a white screen.
post #1435 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

I'm not one to defend BB in any way, but you should really try to meet them halfway here, and not leave them with a bunch of open-box TVs unnecessarily. Let me explain.

I truly believe you could take virtually ANY Pioneer 9G plasma, play a solid white image with Power Mode OFF, listen for buzz, and hear it very easily from 12-15' away. This is an unnatural and unfair test.

You really need to set the panel up in its intended location, play normal content that you'd typically watch at the normal volumes you use, and sit in your expected seating location. Then, try the different Power Modes. While the buzz on a small number of panels is truly excessive (I know this....I had one once ), the vast majority will be effectively silent under these conditions in Power Mode 2. Many will be silent, depending on both the panel and your hearing sensitivity, with Power Mode OFF as well.

Have to AGREE with progprog, Be realistic in selecting the circumstances for testing your 9G for 'buzz'.
Yes some panels will buzz no matter what but most do not. Also the sensitivity of your hearing will play a big issue as well. If your hearing is excellent and your younger your more likely to hear even the lowest frequency buzz.
post #1436 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ictusbrucks View Post

I hear two distinct buzzes. There's a lower frequency buzz thats there even with a black image onscreen, and then theres the higher pitched frequency that changes with screen brightness.

I tried powersave2, and it does make a noticeable difference to the buzz frequency, mostly when the screen is bright. When the screen is not full-bright, powersave2 didn't do that much, it makes the buzz a bit lower-frequency but it is still right there in my head from 12 feet.

Well it mostly sounds like you have classic panel buzz. The ESave options reduce peak output so if you're hearing buzz below the threshold those settings won't matter. On my 50" panel I get buzz above a certain average picture level but that can triggered by small-ish objects. So if I bring up the "Menu" on my DTV DVR I get buzz but not if I bring up the "Guide". Panel buzz is also quite directional so if your delivery people were standing off-axis they might not hear it. This can also be a fix. Move two feet to the left or right, tilt the panel a couple of degrees and no more buzz. Of course you can always hear it in the front-row-center sweet spot.
post #1437 of 1626
I exchanged an open-box Pro-111FD for an unopened one yesterday. The open box did not exhibit any buzzing. The new model, on the other hand, emits a very slight buzz which is only audible when I place my ear to the back of the set.

The open box's manufactured date was 06/08, while this new one is 04/09. I'm currently at 12 hours of the break-in slides, so it remains to be seen if this buzzing disappears. I'm not betting on it, but it's also such a low decibel buzz that I couldn't even hear it when surrounded by silence and while sitting in my "sweet spot."
post #1438 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Lushious View Post

The new model, on the other hand, emits a very slight buzz which is only audible when I place my ear to the back of the set.

That's "power-supply" buzz. It's completely different from panel buzz and common to many displays.
post #1439 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

That's "power-supply" buzz. It's completely different from panel buzz and common to many displays.

Would this remain true if the buzzing only occurs during times when the panel is displaying a picture? When running the break-in slides I noticed the buzzing only occurred during times when an image was displayed on the screen. The black screens that separate the slides didn't exhibit the buzzing.
post #1440 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Lushious View Post

Would this remain true if the buzzing only occurs during times when the panel is displaying a picture? When running the break-in slides I noticed the buzzing only occurred during times when an image was displayed on the screen. The black screens that separate the slides didn't exhibit the buzzing.

Yes. The panel is using much more power when the pixels are actually working. From your description, you were fortunate and got two good panels. There's no evidence, BTW, that the various noise levels of these sets (panel buzz or power supply hum) change or disappear with break-in.
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