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Pioneer 9G "buzz" poll (Elite and non-Elite) - Page 49

post #1441 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

BTW, that the various noise levels of these sets (panel buzz or power supply hum) change or disappear with break-in.

And sadly one can expect the PS noise to increase as the components age. Luckily I've never had one loud enough that you could hear it from the front but people have reported it. Of course I've never kept a non-crt for more than three years so I'm in no position to speak about older displays.
post #1442 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Yes. The panel is using much more power when the pixels are actually working. From your description, you were fortunate and got two good panels. There's no evidence, BTW, that the various noise levels of these sets (panel buzz or power supply hum) change or disappear with break-in.

I have not found the buzz to change at all on my 111 after 600+ hrs. I did the D-Nice "break-in"

I am convinced the buzz is normal..basically the same quality on both sets with build dates 5 mo apart..Nov 08 and March 09.
post #1443 of 1626
So if most of the buzzing comes from behind the set, is it possible to have the power supply fixed? I talked to a support person of Pioneer and they said the buzz from behind was normal but that's probably BS because in the manual they say only panel buzz is OK.
post #1444 of 1626
I picked up a PDP 6020 at BB on thursday. It was the floor model and it has panel buzz but i have to get 2ft away it to hear it. They had it on display for about 4 months. The buzz is in the upper right hand side of the screen. My PDP4350 has a little bit of buzz from about the same distance and has not changed in the 4 years i have had it.

Glen
post #1445 of 1626
My buzz comes from the top right too. Except I think the buzz I hear may be from behind the set.
post #1446 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2060 View Post

So if most of the buzzing comes from behind the set, is it possible to have the power supply fixed? I talked to a support person of Pioneer and they said the buzz from behind was normal but that's probably BS because in the manual they say only panel buzz is OK.

Yes- it can be replaced it. There have been owners here with excessive PS buzz that got it replaced and that resolved the issue. One thing I have noticed that's different about PS noise, just from reading here, is that it can change, unlike panel buzz. PS noise might come on suddenly, or suddenly become louder. In at least one or two cases I recall, a significant increase in noise preceded complete failure of the power supply.
post #1447 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2060 View Post

So if most of the buzzing comes from behind the set, is it possible to have the power supply fixed? I talked to a support person of Pioneer and they said the buzz from behind was normal but that's probably BS because in the manual they say only panel buzz is OK.

The CSR was correct. There are several modules that buzz. If you can clearly hear module noise from your normal viewing position you may be able to get warranty service. If you can only hear them from the back that's normal.
post #1448 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

The CSR was correct. There are several modules that buzz. If you can clearly hear module noise from your normal viewing position you may be able to get warranty service. If you can only hear them from the back that's normal.

Hmm....I have to respectfully disagree here. It's panel buzz....that which clearly comes from the front face of the glass itself, that is not amenable to repair. Pioneer customer service and in-home techs have a remarkable inability to hear or acknowledge it.

Excessive noise in the back, on the other hand, appears to be associated with a specific defective component, and there are reports in this thread of owners who got successful warranty service for those issues.
post #1449 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Hmm....I have to respectfully disagree here. It's panel buzz....that which clearly comes from the front face of the glass itself, that is not amenable to repair. Pioneer customer service and in-home techs have a remarkable inability to hear or acknowledge it.

Excessive noise in the back, on the other hand, appears to be associated with a specific defective component, and there are reports in this thread of owners who got successful warranty service for those issues.

Panel buzz is so interesting IMHO. I have a 111(11/08) and 151(03/09), they both have a panel buzz that is audible at the panel. Varies with the screen image colors as well. I am 100% convinced this is simply normal panel noise for these plasmas. Many people can not even hear it. I am very sensitive to these sounds, so it can be annoying.

Last night I sat on my couch and shifted positions 6in/12in forward or to the left and the buzzing sound would be present or disappear. Clearly as stated before in this thread, there is an acoustic affect from the panel as well(parabolic?). Kinda of cool to move a little forward or back and it comes and goes.

I guess some plasmas do not have buzz issues? I am not sure how, seems inherent with the tech.

Anyway, I have an Ascend 340 SE R/C/L and at normal volumes for TV and movies I rarely hear the buzz even in quiet scenes. My audio setup has helped mask the noise. I do not listen at high volume, I am 44 and hate things loud.

Powersave mode 2 makes it disappear on both panels but D-Nice has said it the PowerSave mode 2 really degrades the ftl and recommends keeping it off for the best picture.

Anyway, in the end the picture is amazing and a little buzz although annoying is well worth it, IMHO.
post #1450 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by nealh View Post

Panel buzz is so interesting IMHO. I have a 111(11/08) and 151(03/09), they both have a panel buzz that is audible at the panel. Varies with the screen image colors as well. I am 100% convinced this is simply normal panel noise for these plasmas. Many people can not even hear it. I am very sensitive to these sounds, so it can be annoying.
............

I guess some plasmas do not have buzz issues? I am not sure how, seems inherent with the tech.

..............
Powersave mode 2 makes it disappear on both panels but D-Nice has said it the PowerSave mode 2 really degrades the ftl and recommends keeping it off for the best picture.

I am equally convinced that some buzz is normal. But I am also convinced that there is a variance between panels such that a small proportion are excessively loud. When you happen to have one of those, nothing makes it okay. Fortunately, the vast majority of panel/owner combinations don't appear to experience the problem.

The common explanation why Pioneers may be more susceptible to this problem is that they forgo an extra layer of glass to achieve better picture quality. Not sure whether that's the crux of it or not, but I've got a 42" Sony plasma that honestly has no panel buzz whatsoever. It weighs a ton, so I suspect any noise must be utterly squelched behind all that heavy glass.

I know that D-Nice recommends Energy Mode OFF for best PQ, but I'd still suggest anyone who is noticing buzz at least try it with an open mind. A few people here have said that they notice a huge degradation in brightness when switching to Mode 2.....I'm skeptical. If you could do a blind test, I bet that most people would have an awfully tough time telling the modes apart. This isn't to say that calibration equipment doesn't detect real differences, but overall viewer experience (which includes both PQ and AQ) should ultimately drive how we use our TVs. IMHO.
post #1451 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post


I know that D-Nice recommends Energy Mode OFF for best PQ, but I'd still suggest anyone who is noticing buzz at least try it with an open mind. A few people here have said that they notice a huge degradation in brightness when switching to Mode 2.....I'm skeptical. If you could do a blind test, I bet that most people would have an awfully tough time telling the modes apart. This isn't to say that calibration equipment doesn't detect real differences, but overall viewer experience (which includes both PQ and AQ) should ultimately drive how we use our TVs. IMHO.

I agree 100% with these comments. I for one cant tell a difference but I paid D-Nice for his expertise so I PS mode off. If it starts to bother me more, I will turn off and live with the brightness changes
post #1452 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Hmm....I have to respectfully disagree here. ...

Since you've almost restated what I said I'll assume I was unclear.
post #1453 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

Since you've almost restated what I said I'll assume I was unclear.

No, probably just me....me not read so good. I read your post to say that noise from the back is normal and not amenable to repair. Upon re-reading, I think I get what you meant. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
post #1454 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer View Post

I have worked very closely on the buzz issue and have a few remarks to help clarify the issue.

First, the buzz is almost identical from panel to panel, assuming we are comparing same models/sizes/generations. So changing a 5020 for another 5020 will yield little too no difference. Some may report a different buzz and I would respond that if the panels are not placed exactly in the same position and the seating is not exactly the same you can't accurately compare the panels buzz.

Second, Very few people can even hear the buzz. That's because most of us we lose our ability to hear the oscillating frequency at about 30 yrs old. For example, I have enjoyed and been blessed with "Golden Ears" and could hear better than most. A 5020 user asked me to stop by to hear his buzzing panel and no matter how hard I tried I could not hear any sound whatsoever while the 28 yr old customer hear the buzz. The moral of the story is my "Golden Ears" are in their "Golden Years".

Third, all panel buzz, and it may be true that Pioneer panels may buzz slightly more than some other panels as they bond the filter on the single glass panel. Their are significant image quality advantages in Pioneer design.

Forth, The radiation pattern is very weak and small and is located directly in front of the panel and can reach somewhere between 6' and 14'. So adjusting the height and angle of the panel can eliminate the buzz.

Fifth, with any background noise or with the volume on even at a low level no one can hear the buzz.

Hope this helps.

-Robert

Points well taken and accurate. Of course there will always be exceptions.
post #1455 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman4 View Post

Points well taken and accurate. Of course there will always be exceptions.

I'd forgotten Robert's post from way back when. WADR, that sounds to me more like a dealer's post to alleviate potential buyers' concerns than an accurate assessment of panel buzz. IMO, only point three is accurate.
post #1456 of 1626
Well, I am 44 and I still hear the buzz. My hearing has been tested in the past and I tend to pick up alot frequencies others do not.


BTW, progprog I have been tinkering a bit with PS modes..OFF and Mode 2. After calibration if I go from OFF to Mode 2 I can see a brightness change. It is small but a noticable difference.

Before calibration, the difference was not visible. I will add that if you did not go back and forth between modes, after 10min the difference would be forgotten. I hate the buzz but the picture does look amore vibrant so I am trying to ignore it and accept it has normal part of my TV.

I only hear or notice it at low volumes with a quiet room. Most movies and TV viewing these conditions are fairly rare, thankful.
post #1457 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

i'd forgotten robert's post from way back when. Wadr, that sounds to me more like a dealer's post to alleviate potential buyers' concerns than an accurate assessment of panel buzz. Imo, only point three is accurate.

+1
post #1458 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by nealh View Post

Well, I am 44 and I still hear the buzz.

+1. That is, I'm 45 and hear the buzz. And I find it frustrating when people try to dismiss the issue, telling people they're not really hearing what they're hearing.
post #1459 of 1626
I guess the buzz is like other issues. Some are very sensitive to the noise and frequencies. My wife sits in the same places I do and never has commented or noted the buzz.

For videophiles, I guess this like clouds and other LCD issues, etc.

I never understand why people deny or dismiss these things. But to each his own.

My 111 and 151 have same quality buzz, so I am pretty sure its normal. I would guess some panels have a little less but I cant imagine really none.

Last night I paused a scene in Watchmen Blu-ray and went up to the panel. The scene had light and dark areas and the buzz varied across the panel. The buzz was audible up close but not loud...it actually seemed louder at the sweet viewing spot. LOL
post #1460 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by nealh View Post

BTW, progprog I have been tinkering a bit with PS modes..OFF and Mode 2. After calibration if I go from OFF to Mode 2 I can see a brightness change. It is small but a noticable difference.

Before calibration, the difference was not visible. I will add that if you did not go back and forth between modes, after 10min the difference would be forgotten. I hate the buzz but the picture does look amore vibrant so I am trying to ignore it and accept it has normal part of my TV.

I only hear or notice it at low volumes with a quiet room. Most movies and TV viewing these conditions are fairly rare, thankful.

Yes, I agree that if you really sit and A/B it, you can see a slight difference. For me, though, I have a definite threshold where brightness turns to garishness. (I can hardly bear watching ball games with my Dad on his LCD. ) So, while some owners clearly want their TVs as bright as they can go, in my light-controlled room, Mode 2 stays well within the range I prefer. (I never use ISF-Day for the same reason, even though its brightness difference from ISF-Night is very slight.)
post #1461 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Yes, I agree that if you really sit and A/B it, you can see a slight difference. For me, though, I have a definite threshold where brightness turns to garishness. (I can hardly bear watching ball games with my Dad on his LCD. ) So, while some owners clearly want their TVs as bright as they can go, in my light-controlled room, Mode 2 stays well within the range I prefer. (I never use ISF-Day for the same reason, even though its brightness difference from ISF-Night is very slight.)

I typical do not like bright either. However, turning on the PS mode 2 on my 151 now, not only effects the brightness but it all lessens the pop on colors. The colors are slightly dulled and it can be seen. Now if the buzz bothered me more, I would not hesitate to switch on mode 2. The nicer colors make the buzz more toleraable.

You would have to see it on my set to appreciate it. I was surprised by this, happily so.

I am still surprised that I see the difference pre- and post-calibration. I was very worried, my wife and I would not see a "big" difference.

The overall colors and details are clearly better. The buzz did not get worse with calibration, either. The brighter nature of the picture did not worsen the buzz. I expected the buzz to be measurable worse after the calibration.
post #1462 of 1626
I've had mine calibrated too. I'm familiar with the differences and I can appreciate them just by seeing them on my own set.

I'm curious, why did you expect the buzz to be worse after calibration? (Didn't effect mine either, but I didn't expect it to.)
post #1463 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

I've had mine calibrated too. I'm familiar with the differences and I can appreciate them just by seeing them on my own set.

I'm curious, why did you expect the buzz to be worse after calibration? (Didn't effect mine either, but I didn't expect it to.)

I figured if you increased the brightness" the panel would get louder..ie more buzz. I based this on the fact that brighter scenes seem to buzz more. But what did I know
post #1464 of 1626
thought only sammie's had the buzz.......gee
post #1465 of 1626
Got the European model KRP-500A on Tuesday and I unfortunately have some noise from the panel in the form of a high frequency buzzing that goes in waves depending on what is displayed on the screen (sounds like a transformer).
I have read through a lot of forum threads regarding this and have concluded that I should contact Pioneer to get it checked because it ruins the experience of an otherwise fantasticly good tv.

But, when this is said, I have also noted that the external media box also produces some sound. This sound is not annoying to the extent that the panel buzz is, but I noticed that the sound from the media box comes and goes in a rythmic form. It sounds like there maybe is a fan that goes on and off and makes a kind of humming noise.
It's like a car that is standing still with the engine running, and where you press the gas pedal down a little bit and then release it again and just like that it continues in a steady rythmic pattern: increasing the "gas" and releasing again.....increasing and then releasing....increasing and then releasing etc.

Is there anyone else who can confirm that it is as it should work?
If so, this is something I'm not going to "bother" Pioneer with when I will contact them regarding the buzz from the panel!

Appreciate any answers :-)
post #1466 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by lysthuset View Post

Got the European model KRP-500A on Tuesday and I unfortunately have some noise from the panel in the form of a high frequency buzzing that goes in waves depending on what is displayed on the screen (sounds like a transformer).
I have read through a lot of forum threads regarding this and have concluded that I should contact Pioneer to get it checked because it ruins the experience of an otherwise fantasticly good tv.

But, when this is said, I have also noted that the external media box also produces some sound. This sound is not annoying to the extent that the panel buzz is, but I noticed that the sound from the media box comes and goes in a rythmic form. It sounds like there maybe is a fan that goes on and off and makes a kind of humming noise.
It's like a car that is standing still with the engine running, and where you press the gas pedal down a little bit and then release it again and just like that it continues in a steady rythmic pattern: increasing the "gas" and releasing again.....increasing and then releasing....increasing and then releasing etc.

Is there anyone else who can confirm that it is as it should work?
If so, this is something I'm not going to "bother" Pioneer with when I will contact them regarding the buzz from the panel!

Appreciate any answers :-)

I have EXACTLY the same issues. I got my european KRP-500A last thursday.

The media box does indeed have a "coming / going" noise which is very annoying. There's also a thread going on over at Hifi Forum (it's german) http://www.hifi-forum.de/index.php?a...sort=lpost&z=2

There seems to be no solution to the problem yet although it seems that it could be fixed by firmware update.

What bothers me even more is the "transformator" buzzing sound you describe. Turning on ESM2 makes it almost disappear but I haven't made up my mind what I should do: accept the buzzing or live with a potentially lower brightness/PQ. I coulnd't spot a difference between Pure and ESM2.. at least not with a quick glance.

All in all, I find these defects very annoying and I'm puzzled what to do.. I got until next thursday to make up my mind. Return the set and get my money back or somehow live with these annoying sounds.

I guess the fan noise can be fixed while the buzz can not because it's "by design".
post #1467 of 1626
There should not be much decision making involved with a buzzer. If it bothers you now, it will drive you nuts over the longer term.

HDTVs are pure enjoyment items. If that enjoyment is ruined by the noise, you'll grow to hate the set every time you're subjected to the unwanted noise.

If exchange is an option, you might be able to verify that the new set doesn't buzz before it being delivered. If not, you can take your chances, assuming that the money back option is still there if the next one buzzes.

Power transformers all make some noise, but it should not be noticable unless you have an ear pressed up against the device. Anything more is unacceptable for consumer electronics, as far as I'm concerned.
post #1468 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by k0rn View Post

I have EXACTLY the same issues. I got my european KRP-500A last thursday.

The media box does indeed have a "coming / going" noise which is very annoying. There's also a thread going on over at Hifi Forum (it's german) http://www.hifi-forum.de/index.php?a...sort=lpost&z=2

There seems to be no solution to the problem yet although it seems that it could be fixed by firmware update.

What bothers me even more is the "transformator" buzzing sound you describe. Turning on ESM2 makes it almost disappear but I haven't made up my mind what I should do: accept the buzzing or live with a potentially lower brightness/PQ. I coulnd't spot a difference between Pure and ESM2.. at least not with a quick glance.

All in all, I find these defects very annoying and I'm puzzled what to do.. I got until next thursday to make up my mind. Return the set and get my money back or somehow live with these annoying sounds.

I guess the fan noise can be fixed while the buzz can not because it's "by design".



Hi Korn and thanks for the reply!

Nice to know that I'm not "alone" ;-)
Thanks to the Google translate service I was able to somewhat get the German thread translated into a semi-understandable language.... And it seems like you and me are not the only ones with this problem! I don't understand why this issue has not been adressed in the quite long thread about buzz from 9g Kuros here at AVSforum...

Anyway I will try to upgrade the firmware when I get home today as I don't think I have the newest version on my tv. My dreams of this fixing my problems are VERY low, but I guess it won't hurt to try.

Even though there is quite a lot of posts on different forums from people with buzzing issues on their 9G Kuros, I can't find a lot of posts from people who in fact have contacted Pioneer's "PDP+" service/warranty and seen some good results from doing that....

I will continue to test and check my tv during the weekend and if I'm not satisfied with the buzz from the panel and the coming/going noise from the mediabox, I will call my Pioneer (Norway) and ask them to come and check it out...

Regarding using the powersave mode 1 or 2, my experience so far is that when wathcing a blu-ray movie (from PS3) this doesn't affect the picture/subtitles too much and YES it reduces the buzz from the panel a bit (but NOT quite to a satisfying level). But when watching SD material (cable-TV), the powersave mode DOES affect the picture and I can clearly see the subtitles adjusting the brightness level when scenes are changing from dark to light and vice versa.... This is something I don't like and therefore I don't want to use this powersaving mode when watching SD stuff, but then again the buzzing noise becomes too annoying.... :-(

I'm crossing my fingers and hoping that Pioneer will take my problem seriously if and when I'll call them, because I don't have an option to return it to the shop I bought it from!
post #1469 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by aydu View Post

There should not be much decision making involved with a buzzer. If it bothers you now, it will drive you nuts over the longer term.

HDTVs are pure enjoyment items. If that enjoyment is ruined by the noise, you'll grow to hate the set every time you're subjected to the unwanted noise.

+1

Some owners have said they got used to it. This makes me wonder a little if they had truly bad buzzers, because I know that is something I could never have gotten used to. And it would indeed have driven me nuts over the longer term.
post #1470 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

+1

Some owners have said they got used to it. This makes me wonder a little if they had truly bad buzzers, because I know that is something I could never have gotten used to. And it would indeed have driven me nuts over the longer term.

The buzzing probably destroyed their upper register hearing ability!
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