or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Plasma Flat Panel Displays › Pioneer 9G "buzz" poll (Elite and non-Elite)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Pioneer 9G "buzz" poll (Elite and non-Elite) - Page 51

post #1501 of 1626
Energy save mode 2 does not limit "peak luminance" per se. It limits overall output. So if you have a white window that's small enough, it could be as bright as Standard mode. The difference comes up when there's more bright content. Even at contrast 20 in Pure mode, I can see a significant difference in bright content with energy save mode 2 and Standard on my 500M. For there not to be a difference between ES2 and Standard, Contrast needs to be zero or close to it.
post #1502 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Is Drive Mode 2, which you say runs at 100Hz, the equivalent of our 72Hz mode? And are you saying that running at 100Hz actually results in lower buzz? If so, that's very interesting, as I don't recall anyone else noticing the buzz change with different refresh rates.

We can also refresh 50p signals to 100 Hz, on drive mode 2, on the North American 500M. I have also noticed this. Drive mode 1 does presumably 75 Hz (or another multiple of 25, but most likely 75), and drive mode 3 does 60 Hz.
post #1503 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by k0rn View Post

I'm still leaning towards the theory that ALL Pioneers buzz and the difference lies in the owner's ears/living room/etc. This makes more sense to me... but I won't rule out the other theory either.

I completely agree...there may be a slight difference in the level of buzz from panel to panel, but for the most part I think it's very subjective depending on the listener. In Standard ESM, I can hear my 500m buzz from the couch 10 feet away during quiet scenes...in ESM 2, it's barely audible. As far as losing brightness going from Standard to ESM 2, the difference is not even noticeable in Pure mode, to my eyes anyway (I can see the diff in Standard mode, but really, who cares...if I wanted it that bright I would have stuck to LCD). Easy decision, for me anyway to keep it in ESM 2...I am having it calibrated Friday and will probably have it done using the same setting.

Quick story - a friend of mine recently purchased the 500m as well. He hears NO buzz...I was over at his place last weekend so I sat 10 feet away with the same settings, and it sounded pretty darn identical to mine (slight buzz in Standard, no buzz in ESM 2). We live at altitude as well, so I would expect the buzz to be slightly louder anyway (though not as bad as a plasma from say 4-5 years ago).

IMO, it's 90% ears and maybe 10% buzz variation from panel to panel. In any event, to me it's a non-issue given the Kuro's PQ...there is no way I would sacrifice that to get rid of a minor irritant that comes with the technology (which is non-existent anyway in ESM 2)!
post #1504 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by k0rn View Post

I'm still leaning towards the theory that ALL Pioneers buzz and the difference lies in the owner's ears/living room/etc. This makes more sense to me... but I won't rule out the other theory either.

Honestly, I don't think it's ALL in the ears of the beholder or ALL in panel variance. It's an interaction of the two and that's why it's so hard to nail down whether a particular panel has excessive buzz. I say this not just from reading this thread for the last year, but also from my own experience. I have, without question, heard two 151FDs with very different "buzz characteristics," as well as a 111FD that is basically silent.
post #1505 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Honestly, I don't think it's ALL in the ears of the beholder or ALL in panel variance. It's an interaction of the two and that's why it's so hard to nail down whether a particular panel has excessive buzz. I say this not just from reading this thread for the last year, but also from my own experience. I have, without question, heard two 151FDs with very different "buzz characteristics," as well as a 111FD that is basically silent.

Well, now that I know exactly under which circumstances the KRP does buzz (and how you can work around it), I'm eager to test others to see if there's really a difference.
post #1506 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by k0rn View Post

Well, now that I know exactly under which circumstances the KRP does buzz (and how you can work around it), I'm eager to test others to see if there's really a difference.

So.... what's the secret then...?!?
post #1507 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by lysthuset View Post

So.... what's the secret then...?!?

Oh, sorry you got your hopes up.

I meant Drive Mode 2 & ESM 2.... but I didn't know that at first, so...
post #1508 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by k0rn View Post

Oh, sorry you got your hopes up.

I meant Drive Mode 2 & ESM 2.... but I didn't know that at first, so...

Ahhh - okies

Been there, done that but still have a little buzzer

Andy
post #1509 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

I have, without question, heard two 151FDs with very different "buzz characteristics," as well as a 111FD that is basically silent.

prog - you sure you didn't have some unknown variances going on the day you heard the other 151? swimmer's ear perhaps? j/k...i totally believe you. i agree, it's definitely a combination of ears and panel buzz variance (not 100% one or the other), but i lean more heavily toward the former. all things being equal (panel model, settings used, source material, etc), i think subtle differences in 'buzz level' from panel to panel are often exaggerated by the most sensitive of ears. basically, the difference in the level/definition of what i think is 'too loud' and what someone else deems 'too loud' is typically going to be greater than the ACTUAL difference from panel to panel (it it were to be measured that is). Hope that makes sense...just my opinion of course! btw - good to see you in here...i need to catch up over in DT land!
post #1510 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by ginnywop View Post

prog - you sure you didn't have some unknown variances going on the day you heard the other 151? swimmer's ear perhaps? j/k...i totally believe you. i agree, it's definitely a combination of ears and panel buzz variance (not 100% one or the other), but i lean more heavily toward the former. all things being equal (panel model, settings used, source material, etc), i think subtle differences in 'buzz level' from panel to panel are often exaggerated by the most sensitive of ears. basically, the difference in the level/definition of what i think is 'too loud' and what someone else deems 'too loud' is typically going to be greater than the ACTUAL difference from panel to panel (it it were to be measured that is). Hope that makes sense...just my opinion of course! btw - good to see you in here...i need to catch up over in DT land!

Hehe! No swimmer's ear! I actually heard them both in exactly the same place in my own house, because I owned them both. That's how I know those two were different. The 111 is in a different room, but I did try to move around and find the buzz "sour spot." That panel, though, just doesn't seem to have that same annoying buzz, as far as I can tell. Which is nice.

I do think it's impossible to compare panels in completely different environments. Some will listen to the floor models at the store and try comparing those noise levels to the panel they have in their own home, for example. I just don't think that's a valid exercise. Variables like ambient noise, room acoustics, etc., are significant enough to overwhelm the real but subtle differences between the panels.
post #1511 of 1626
My set buzzed really loud on bright colored screens like white or soemthing with alot of white in it. I can hear my buzz from my bed which is like 8 feet away. Its pretty loud and annoying and i cant return the set becasue im over 30 days by like 3 months. So the only choice i have is to fight with pioneer
post #1512 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by STILESP113 View Post

My set buzzed really loud on bright colored screens like white or soemthing with alot of white in it. I can hear my buzz from my bed which is like 8 feet away. Its pretty loud and annoying and i cant return the set becasue im over 30 days by like 3 months. So the only choice i have is to fight with pioneer

Does Energy Mode 2 help at all? If at all possible, tilting the panel even slightly can help re-direct the buzz away from your viewing position.
post #1513 of 1626
If anyone can help, I would appreciate it. I currently have a samsung buzzer that I am getting a refund on because they can't fix the problem. I am torn between a new panasonic or a Pioneer krp-500m. I'm not thrilled with the panasonic and would prefer to purchase the Pioneer because of the stunning picture. I am worried about the buzz and from the descriptions on this thread, it sounds to be similar to the samsung buzz. A loud and variating buzzing sound that increases/decreases depending on the brightness of the picture. Have any of the pioneer owners compared or heard the buzzing on the samsung plasmas to compare? Also, how much lower does the buzzing get with the energy mode 2 setting? Thanks in advance.
post #1514 of 1626
I used to have a samsung P63 B590 that buzzed pretty loud, but it was only from the back of the set.

I returned it and got a Kuro 141FD and it buzzes about the same, only it emits from the back AND the front, so you can't really do any acoustic treatments to dampen it.

Powersave2 does make a pretty big difference but I still hear it occasionally at night time. It's not as big a deal as I made of it at first after having it a few weeks.
post #1515 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by heron25 View Post

If anyone can help, I would appreciate it. I currently have a samsung buzzer that I am getting a refund on because they can't fix the problem. I am torn between a new panasonic or a Pioneer krp-500m. I'm not thrilled with the panasonic and would prefer to purchase the Pioneer because of the stunning picture. I am worried about the buzz and from the descriptions on this thread, it sounds to be similar to the samsung buzz. A loud and variating buzzing sound that increases/decreases depending on the brightness of the picture. Have any of the pioneer owners compared or heard the buzzing on the samsung plasmas to compare? Also, how much lower does the buzzing get with the energy mode 2 setting? Thanks in advance.

There seems to be a rough consensus that the 50" models are less likely to have problem buzz than the 60" panels. That said, I think that most panels are sufficiently quiet for most owners. And as Ictusbrucks just posted, the Energy Modes do help a lot when your panel is noisier than you'd like.
post #1516 of 1626
Very interesting about the energy modes on the pioneers. On the samsungs, using them makes zero difference in regards to the buzzing. I didn't know that about the 50" versus the 60".
post #1517 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

There seems to be a rough consensus that the 50" models are less likely to have problem buzz than the 60" panels. That said, I think that most panels are sufficiently quiet for most owners. And as Ictusbrucks just posted, the Energy Modes do help a lot when your panel is noisier than you'd like.

+1 - I have compared the 50" (both Elite and NE) to the 60" (Elite only) and the 50" definitely does not buzz as loudly as the 60".
post #1518 of 1626
Unfortunately I have great hearing and therefore I am not buying the KRP-500or Samsung. I have seen posted that that Samsung is fixing the buzzing by afixing rubber pieces to the back of the panel as they have determined that the glass that the Plasma is bonded too is to thin.

My plan is to wait until Cedia show and see if there are any announcements about future panels. Maybe buy the 50" Panasonic S1 as a fill in until next year.
post #1519 of 1626
I hear a light buzz on a PDP-5020FD and KRP-600M but only from 2' and less.
This is a non issue to me.

However, I had a PDP-5010FD that was buzzing like hell and that almost drove me crazy.
post #1520 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOG9 View Post

+1 - I have compared the 50" (both Elite and NE) to the 60" (Elite only) and the 50" definitely does not buzz as loudly as the 60".

I have both a 111 and 151 and they buzz the same. so I disagree on this. I not sure there is a difference except individual set variation.
post #1521 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by nealh View Post

I have both a 111 and 151 and they buzz the same. so I disagree on this. I not sure there is a difference except individual set variation.

I have the same panels, nealh, and mine do not buzz the same. And I've had a noisier 151 than my current one. So based on my tiny sample, and the general tendency for complaints on this thread to concentrate around the 151 more than other models, I lean toward both panel size and unit variation as contributors to differences in buzz levels.
post #1522 of 1626
Both Samsungs and Pioneer's buzz is caused by capacitor squeal--a microvibration caused by high turnover that has plagued electronics for as long as I can remember. Any resonance causing the panel to vibrate is not from capacitor squeal but most likely an uneven fan.

There is a fix that is easy to do but will make many uncomfortable and most likely void your warranty: cover the squealing capacitors with something like silicon, glue or epoxy; clear nail polish is also known to work. Consumers and manufacturers have been using this solution since the problem began. I personally use it on squealing capactors on my hot and overclocked ATI Radeon 4890.
post #1523 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by pete2s View Post

Both Samsungs and Pioneer's buzz is caused by capacitor squeal--a microvibration caused by high turnover that has plagued electronics for as long as I can remember. Any resonance causing the panel to vibrate is not from capacitor squeal but most likely an uneven fan.

There is a fix that is easy to do but will make many uncomfortable and most likely void your warranty: cover the squealing capacitors with something like silicon, glue or epoxy; clear nail polish is also known to work. Consumers and manufacturers have been using this solution since the problem began. I personally use it on squealing capactors on my hot and overclocked ATI Radeon 4890.

That's not panel buzz. Not does panel buzz have anything to do with the fans.....
post #1524 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

I have the same panels, nealh, and mine do not buzz the same. And I've had a noisier 151 than my current one. So based on my tiny sample, and the general tendency for complaints on this thread to concentrate around the 151 more than other models, I lean toward both panel size and unit variation as contributors to differences in buzz levels.

I guess I should say the "quality" of the buzz is the same...since I beleive it is a panel buzz, it is a little louder on my 151 but the "sweet/sour spot" so to speak does not seem as bad on my 151. My 111 seemed worse becasue we were closer??? I think the sound is of the same freq. and since I am very senstivity difference has an effect.

If I am right up on my 151 it is louder than 111 at the same difference.

I did move our seating back a bit on the 151 vs 111.
post #1525 of 1626
eesh, so I'm basically in the same boat. The Pioneer's buzz just like the Samsung... I already have a buzzer so if I were to buy the 500m, I know I would sit in front of it and listen for the buzz. This stinks. I like the Panasonic picture, but I love the Pioneer picture.
post #1526 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by heron25 View Post

eesh, so I'm basically in the same boat. The Pioneer's buzz just like the Samsung... I already have a buzzer so if I were to buy the 500m, I know I would sit in front of it and listen for the buzz. This stinks. I like the Panasonic picture, but I love the Pioneer picture.

you can always use the power save mode to essentially elminate it.
post #1527 of 1626
I've read about that solution. Ok- I'm pulling the trigger on the 500m today. If i get a buzzer and I notice, I'm blaming you guys. So you've been warned. Looking forward to watching some NFL games and bluray discs on this.
post #1528 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by heron25 View Post

I've read about that solution. Ok- I'm pulling the trigger on the 500m today. If i get a buzzer and I notice, I'm blaming you guys. So you've been warned. Looking forward to watching some NFL games and bluray discs on this.

The KRP panel buzz is discussed in the KRP FAQ (and in the KRP thread). I have a 500M and I posted about it in this thread. How you respond to it is idiosyncratic and is not particularly related to aural acuity. My wife has better hearing than I do but is normally untroubled by what I consider to be annoying buzzes. She can hear the panel buzz, mosquitos and crt monitor flyback whine. None of those bother her while they drive my mid-50s ears crazy.
post #1529 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Hehe! No swimmer's ear! I actually heard them both in exactly the same place in my own house, because I owned them both. That's how I know those two were different. The 111 is in a different room, but I did try to move around and find the buzz "sour spot." That panel, though, just doesn't seem to have that same annoying buzz, as far as I can tell. Which is nice.

I do think it's impossible to compare panels in completely different environments. Some will listen to the floor models at the store and try comparing those noise levels to the panel they have in their own home, for example. I just don't think that's a valid exercise. Variables like ambient noise, room acoustics, etc., are significant enough to overwhelm the real but subtle differences between the panels.

I completely agree. Between BB and my local specialty AV shop I was not able to observe any buzzing from the Pioneer panels. However, I can hear it in my home. The ambient noise level in most shops is simply too loud to make any accurate assessment, IMO.
post #1530 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

The ambient noise level in most shops is simply too loud to make any accurate assessment, IMO.

Either it's too loud or the shop's room has lots of carpet so much of the buzz is being absorbed by it.. that was true in my case. The room was completely silent and I tried very hard to hear the buzz I wasn't able to. In my home, I heard it instantly.

Pioneer service will be visiting my house to see if the buzz is within the limits... I don't have much hope but who knows, sometimes you get lucky.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Plasma Flat Panel Displays
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Plasma Flat Panel Displays › Pioneer 9G "buzz" poll (Elite and non-Elite)