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Pioneer 9G "buzz" poll (Elite and non-Elite) - Page 53

post #1561 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

I hope your not death!! Maybe just deaf.... Whatever the reason, it's great that you are enjoying your quiet TV!

So far i love my 5020 to deaf. It gives me the pop that my now dead 38" Loewe Aconda once did.
post #1562 of 1626
I just got done breaking in my new PRO-141FD...and it's buzzing very loudly. Didn't so much while D-Nice's break-in disc was running but during normally play it's pretty bad. I love this panel but audio is important to me as well.

Wait, is this my first post? Hi everyone!
post #1563 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorkelface View Post

I just got done breaking in my new PRO-141FD...and it's buzzing very loudly. Didn't so much while D-Nice's break-in disc was running but during normally play it's pretty bad. I love this panel but audio is important to me as well.

Wait, is this my first post? Hi everyone!

Hi Snorkelface! Welcome to the forum....sorry your first post isn't reporting more positive news. Oh wait....you have a new TV! That's positive news!

Just to cover the obvious......have you tried the Energy Modes? Mode 2 usually helps a lot. But if the noise remains excessive at your normal seating distance, even while watching normal content at normal volumes, you need to decide whether it's something you can tolerate or get used to.
post #1564 of 1626
Do you guys think placing speakers closer to TV (other than turning the volume up) would help the buzz issue? The constant noise is getting a little annoying for me.

Would some kind of sound insulation or absorber help? My TV seems to buzz louder when it's turned on initially, but the noise seems to be less loud after the TV warms up. Or is this just all in my head?
post #1565 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by miky702 View Post

Do you guys think placing speakers closer to TV (other than turning the volume up) would help the buzz issue? The constant noise is getting a little annoying for me.

Would some kind of sound insulation or absorber help? My TV seems to buzz louder when it's turned on initially, but the noise seems to be less loud after the TV warms up. Or is this just all in my head?

People have tried all sorts of sound absorption/attenuation techniques, usually to little avail. For actual panel buzz, I think the reason these things don't help is that the sound isn't reflected- it comes straight at you from the glass surface.

You could certainly try using speaker placement to drown it out. I wouldn't be too optimistic, based on the experience of many owners of buzzers who use the attached speakers. You can't get your speakers any closer than that.

The most consistently helpful solutions are (1) using Energy Mode 2, and (2) angling the panel slightly (or altering the seating position) such that the highly-directional buzz is "aimed" away from the viewers.
post #1566 of 1626
Hello everyone...after several weeks of reading comments/reviews/concerns on the krp-500 monitor, i can now proudly say that i'm a new owner of a krp-500m with no buzzing I've owned the tv for only a couple of days, with probably 8 hours of total viewing time. I can report that i hear NO buzz from the front and barely a faint from the back. I hope this stays true as i log in more hours on the panel. I wanted to thank you all for all your input, as I've learned a great deal about plasmas, and especially about this wonderful set.

I do have one question for which i was unable to find an answer in this thread. I don't plan on running D-nice break-in settings. I plan on watching regular (full screen) programming (mostly movies in pure mode) for a least a couple of hundred hours. My question is this, should i change the picture settings for the first few hundred hours, or should i stick with the settings out the box?

Thank you all in advance for your assistance/guidance.
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post #1567 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by aimthatbuddy View Post

Hello everyone...after several weeks of reading comments/reviews/concerns on the krp-500 monitor, i can now proudly say that i'm a new owner of a krp-500m with no buzzing I've owned the tv for only a couple of days, with probably 8 hours of total viewing time. I can report that i hear NO buzz from the front and barely a faint from the back. I hope this stays true as i log in more hours on the panel. I wanted to thank you all for all your input, as I've learned a great deal about plasmas, and especially about this wonderful set.

I do have one question for which i was unable to find an answer in this thread. I don't plan on running D-nice break-in settings. I plan on watching regular (full screen) programming (mostly movies in pure mode) for a least a couple of hundred hours. My question is this, should i change the picture settings for the first few hundred hours, or should i stick with the settings out the box?

Thank you all in advance for your assistance/guidance.
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It really doesn't matter, since I presume you're not using those torch mode settings meant for the break-in disc/USB. You can use whatever settings look best to you. Just be aware that the pixels change the most during the first few hundred hours, so you may find yourself tweaking the settings a little over the first couple months to adapt to these changes.

BTW......congrats on your brand new toy!
post #1568 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

It really doesn't matter, since I presume you're not using those torch mode settings meant for the break-in disc/USB. You can use whatever settings look best to you. Just be aware that the pixels change the most during the first few hundred hours, so you may find yourself tweaking the settings a little over the first couple months to adapt to these changes.

BTW......congrats on your brand new toy!

Thank you progprog! you're absolutely right, i have no intention on using those torch mode settings at all. I'm glad you told me about the pixels changing over time so i can prepare myself, instead of freaking out.
post #1569 of 1626
Pioneer Admits this plasma phenomena in their owners manual:

Flat Panel Display Motor
The screen of the flat panel display is composed of extremely fine pixels that emit light according to received video signals. This principle may cause you to hear a slight buzz or electrical hum coming from the panel. This is a normal sound for the flat panel display and does not indicate a failing unit.

A Google search of "Flat Panel Display Motor" had zero hits...
post #1570 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

Pioneer Admits this plasma phenomena in their owners manual:

Flat Panel Display Motor
The screen of the flat panel display is composed of extremely fine pixels that emit light according to received video signals. This principle may cause you to hear a slight buzz or electrical hum coming from the panel. This is a normal sound for the flat panel display and does not indicate a failing unit.

A Google search of "Flat Panel Display Motor" had zero hits...

We're well aware of the owner's manual and Pioneer's stance on the issue. I must be missing your point.....
post #1571 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

Flat Panel Display Motor

Which, of course, should read Flat Panel Display Monitor. If only that was the sole typo in Pioneer manuals.
post #1572 of 1626
http://rapidshare.com/files/293079954/buzz.mp3

This is sort of what I hear when the tv is on and its completely silent in my house.

It can't be heard during normal viewing, and only during the quietest movies scenes if I actively listen for it. However, it can be heard well if everything is silent and nothing is playing.

Is this pretty much classic panel buzz?
post #1573 of 1626
Just got my KRP-500M today and there's no buzz. I have to have my ear within 4 inches of the panel to hear anything. In fact, with speakers connected to the internal amps and the amp set on "mute," there is still more noise/buzz from the speakers than from the PDP. Nice.

BTW, I also have a Fujitsu 50" in my other house and I can hear its panel buzz more than a foot away.
post #1574 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by budd99 View Post

http://rapidshare.com/files/293079954/buzz.mp3

This is sort of what I hear when the tv is on and its completely silent in my house.

It can't be heard during normal viewing, and only during the quietest movies scenes if I actively listen for it. However, it can be heard well if everything is silent and nothing is playing.

Is this pretty much classic panel buzz?

I'm not sure there's such a thing as "classic" panel buzz; it covers a very wide range. I think they all have at least a little buzz which, fortunately, is not audible during normal use. To me, truly excessive buzz is that which you hear from your normal viewing distance, watching normal content at normal listening volumes. Using Energy Mode 2 often reduces that buzz to an effectively silent level, and owners of those panels have to decide for themselves whether that's an acceptable solution. A very small proportion (as far as I can tell, based on owners' comments in this thread) are not even quiet enough in Energy Mode 2. I consider those panels defective.
post #1575 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

I'm not sure there's such a thing as "classic" panel buzz; it covers a very wide range. I think they all have at least a little buzz which, fortunately, is not audible during normal use. To me, truly excessive buzz is that which you hear from your normal viewing distance, watching normal content at normal listening volumes. Using Energy Mode 2 often reduces that buzz to an effectively silent level, and owners of those panels have to decide for themselves whether that's an acceptable solution. A very small proportion (as far as I can tell, based on owners' comments in this thread) are not even quiet enough in Energy Mode 2. I consider those panels defective.

What I meant is if that's more or less the sort of noise other people hear, regardless of how loud it is, or their viewing distance. I just wanted to make sure it's panel buzz and not something else (defective unit).

I'm pretty sure it is indeed panel buzz, I just want to make sure so I can get over the issue, and consider it something that comes along with the technology.
post #1576 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Just got my KRP-500M today and there's no buzz. I have to have my ear within 4 inches of the panel to hear anything. In fact, with speakers connected to the internal amps and the amp set on "mute," there is still more noise/buzz from the speakers than from the PDP. Nice.

BTW, I also have a Fujitsu 50" in my other house and I can hear its panel buzz more than a foot away.

Kal,
this is not normal ground loop buzz or transformer buzz that you are used too.
Ask Atkinson to explain directed or focused ultrasonic sound when demodulated is heard as a buzz in the optimal seating position (which is not 4" from the screen).
Hopefully John can take a break from reviewing them $80,000 speakers and $30,000 cd transports.
post #1577 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by budd99 View Post

What I meant is if that's more or less the sort of noise other people hear, regardless of how loud it is, or their viewing distance. I just wanted to make sure it's panel buzz and not something else (defective unit).

I'm pretty sure it is indeed panel buzz, I just want to make sure so I can get over the issue, and consider it something that comes along with the technology.

To be honest, I didn't open the file you posted. No offense to you, but I never open those. Given all the variances in the recording and playback levels, I just don't think it's possible for those things to be representative of the actual audio experience in the room where they were recorded.

That said, panel buzz has a very specific character:
  • It's almost always very directional, as if the glass surface were a parabolic dish focused on a particular spot in front of the TV (usually the viewing sweet spot ). So it's usually drastically less noticeable if you simply move up, down, or side-to-side. (This is why tilting the panel slightly away from the normal viewing position is one of the known "solutions.")
  • Also, you can often "follow" panel buzz to a specific spot on the panel, as if it emanates from a certain quadrant of the glass. If you try to move around to the side or hear it from the back, you won't. (Electronics noise, like power supply hum, is what you hear behind the panel.)
  • And finally, panel buzz is usually greatly reduced in Energy Mode 2. This is sometimes true with various electronics noises in the back, according to a few owners, but it's a pretty consistent result with panel buzz.
post #1578 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

Kal,
this is not normal ground loop buzz or transformer buzz that you are used too.
Ask Atkinson to explain directed or focused ultrasonic sound when demodulated is heard as a buzz in the optimal seating position (which is not 4" from the screen).

I understand that. There is nothing audible at the listening/viewing position.
post #1579 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

To be honest, I didn't open the file you posted. No offense to you, but I never open those. Given all the variances in the recording and playback levels, I just don't think it's possible for those things to be representative of the actual audio experience in the room where they were recorded.

That said, panel buzz has a very specific character:
  • It's almost always very directional, as if the glass surface were a parabolic dish focused on a particular spot in front of the TV (usually the viewing sweet spot ). So it's usually drastically less noticeable if you simply move up, down, or side-to-side. (This is why tilting the panel slightly away from the normal viewing position is one of the known "solutions.")
  • Also, you can often "follow" panel buzz to a specific spot on the panel, as if it emanates from a certain quadrant of the glass. If you try to move around to the side or hear it from the back, you won't. (Electronics noise, like power supply hum, is what you hear behind the panel.)
  • And finally, panel buzz is usually greatly reduced in Energy Mode 2. This is sometimes true with various electronics noises in the back, according to a few owners, but it's a pretty consistent result with panel buzz.

Well from the front it seems pretty directional. However, I can hear it from the back too. When i hear it from the back its pretty uniform accross the whole top and middle of the panel.

Don't know what to make of this...
post #1580 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by budd99 View Post

Well from the front it seems pretty directional. However, I can hear it from the back too. When i hear it from the back its pretty uniform accross the whole top and middle of the panel.

Don't know what to make of this...

Well, then it probably comes down to this question: Is the noise loud enough to be intrusive when you're watching something at your normal listening volumes, from your regular seating location? What about in Energy Mode 2?
post #1581 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Well, then it probably comes down to this question: Is the noise loud enough to be intrusive when you're watching something at your normal listening volumes, from your regular seating location? What about in Energy Mode 2?

When Energy 2 mode is on it goes almost completely away.

I think its just a matter of getting used to the noise, in a few weeks, I'll probably tune it out anyways. As I've mentioned before I only hear it if I actively try to hear it.
post #1582 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

Which, of course, should read Flat Panel Display Monitor. If only that was the sole typo in Pioneer manuals.

Maybe it could be classified as a motor, as a loudspeaker is a motor.
Here is the screen itself is the speaker diaphragm or cone. Does the screen vibrate just a tiny bit with the several hundred watts applied?

One Motor definition:
2 : any of various power units that develop energy or impart motion:
post #1583 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by budd99 View Post

When Energy 2 mode is on it goes almost completely away.

I think its just a matter of getting used to the noise, in a few weeks, I'll probably tune it out anyways. As I've mentioned before I only hear it if I actively try to hear it.

I'd recommend just using Energy Mode 2 then. I use it on both my panels.
post #1584 of 1626
I have zero buzz on my KRP-500M, even from 1 inch away with volume down. Guess I am lucky.
post #1585 of 1626
This is weird, when I mute the TV while watching a show, the buzzing intensity changes from scene to scene, as in it could be loud for a few seconds, then low for a few seconds, then come back, and so on...
post #1586 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by budd99 View Post

This is weird, when I mute the TV while watching a show, the buzzing intensity changes from scene to scene, as in it could be loud for a few seconds, then low for a few seconds, then come back, and so on...

Mine does the exact same thing, and it is very annoying.
post #1587 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy11 View Post

I have zero buzz on my KRP-500M, even from 1 inch away with volume down. Guess I am lucky.

I think there are people who just don't hear that frequency very well, and they also happen to get quiet panels. So I guess you're doubly lucky?
post #1588 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by budd99 View Post

This is weird, when I mute the TV while watching a show, the buzzing intensity changes from scene to scene, as in it could be loud for a few seconds, then low for a few seconds, then come back, and so on...

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamMark View Post

Mine does the exact same thing, and it is very annoying.

It precisely that variation in intensity that drives some people nuts.....
post #1589 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by budd99 View Post

http://rapidshare.com/files/293079954/buzz.mp3

This is sort of what I hear when the tv is on and its completely silent in my house.

It can't be heard during normal viewing, and only during the quietest movies scenes if I actively listen for it. However, it can be heard well if everything is silent and nothing is playing.

Is this pretty much classic panel buzz?

I listened to it, and yes, it sound pretty much like panel buzz. It does seem a bit loud and "aggressive", though. What were the recording conditions (what equipment, where was the mic, etc)?

If you're able to walk around your set, is it coming more from the front of the panel or the back? I believe the sound I heard could be from either the panel or the electronics (for example, drive boards), and anecdotal knowledge indicates that the latter can be fixed. Either sound (from the front or back) will vary according to the displayed image.

Dan.
post #1590 of 1626
Pretty sure this is caused by the break-in period unnaturally stressing the fans/circuits for an extended period of time. After running the set for a couple days there was some buzz on the set when I woke up this morning. Turned it off and turned it back on and it was gone. Leaving it off for right now to let it rest but will check back later to see if the buzz is still there.

This pretty much confirms for me what others have said, that it's unwise to run these sets for extended periods of time, namely longer than they were manufactured to be run, straight. I'm hoping that was just temporary since I haven't done the full break-in period. I'll finish the break in period, but I think a lot more carefully now.

A lot of people seem to think that nonstop breakin is harmless, but it most definitely stresses these sets more than they were designed for. You don't run a new car to 200mph the first day you have it just to see if it can and you shouldn't run these sets at max settings, max strain for 150 hours straight with no extended rest periods (like you'd have under normal viewing). At least that's my take based on observing my set (which I assume is fairly similar to most of them).
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