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Pioneer 9G "buzz" poll (Elite and non-Elite) - Page 54

post #1591 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by info_dan View Post

I listened to it, and yes, it sound pretty much like panel buzz. It does seem a bit loud and "aggressive", though. What were the recording conditions (what equipment, where was the mic, etc)?

If you're able to walk around your set, is it coming more from the front of the panel or the back? I believe the sound I heard could be from either the panel or the electronics (for example, drive boards), and anecdotal knowledge indicates that the latter can be fixed. Either sound (from the front or back) will vary according to the displayed image.

Dan.

Actually, that's not a recording of my panel. I used a frequency generator, and found this to be the closest. What I hear is actually a bit softer and not as loud. In hindsight, considering I posted an approximation of a sound that might vary from panel to panel, and that people hear differently, that recording might not be totally reliable...

As others have noticed, the buzz is at its worst when displaying high contrast images (break in slides, ps3 menus, TV menus...). What I have done is to stand behind the TV, and wait for the buzz to worsen. I have noticed that when the buzz comes on (worsens), it is audible from both the front and the back of the panel. In addition, there is a permanent low hum from the back, which I know is normal for electronics. However, the buzz that worsen from those high contrast scenes can clearly ALSO be heard from the back of the panel (uniformly throughout the back panel).

I don't know if I'm being clear, but what I mean is that there are two distinct sounds coming from the back, one normal, and the other I assume is panel buzz, which I'm still trying to figure out if it's comparable to other buzzing panels, or actually worse.
post #1592 of 1626
dlplover,

sorry to dissapoint you but the buzz has nothing to do with the break-in period or any break-in dvds you may or may not run.
For the record I never run any break-in stuff on my plasma contrary to what is suggested here and the buzz was present for the moment I turned the tv on.

The buzz gets louder and louder the more you use the tv but even when sitting for days if I turn it on I can hear it perfectly fine.

Setting the kuro to energy 2 the buzz lowers to the point you can catch a high action movie (not tv speakers) from 2-3m offcenter without it bothering you but 90% of the time I hear it. Mine is so loud infact I can hear it from the other room 30ft away. Btw Energy 2 significantly dims the image but it is a price to pay for the lowering of the buzz. I have also read the using Drive Mode 2 lowers the buzz but I have tried it and it does nothing for me.

I had a pio tech come to see it and swore he couldn't hear anything even there were other two people in the room who obviously heard it.

If you think you will "get used to the buzz" or the "buzz will go away" stop fooling yourself. After living with the buzz for 2 years it is stronger than ever Can't wait to get rid of it.

P.S. I'll try to record it and attach it here with my mobile (I'll split the audio) so people who can't hear it will hear the "kuro buzz" for the first time.
post #1593 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by 720p View Post

dlplover,

sorry to dissapoint you but the buzz has nothing to do with the break-in period or any break-in dvds you may or may not run.
For the record I never run any break-in stuff on my plasma contrary to what is suggested here and the buzz was present for the moment I turned the tv on.

The buzz gets louder and louder the more you use the tv but even when sitting for days if I turn it on I can hear it perfectly fine.

Setting the kuro to energy 2 the buzz lowers to the point you can catch a high action movie (not tv speakers) from 2-3m offcenter without it bothering you but 90% of the time I hear it. Mine is so loud infact I can hear it from the other room 30ft away. Btw Energy 2 significantly dims the image but it is a price to pay for the lowering of the buzz. I have also read the using Drive Mode 2 lowers the buzz but I have tried it and it does nothing for me.

I had a pio tech come to see it and swore he couldn't hear anything even there were other two people in the room who obviously heard it.

If you think you will "get used to the buzz" or the "buzz will go away" stop fooling yourself. After living with the buzz for 2 years it is stronger than ever Can't wait to get rid of it.

P.S. I'll try to record it and attach it here with my mobile (I'll split the audio) so people who can't hear it will hear the "kuro buzz" for the first time.

So basically you're confirming what I said about leaving it on for extended periods at high settings causing the buzz. Obv. varies some from set to set and I'm not saying to not do break-in, I'm saying that you should stagger it over an extended period to give it time to rest (maybe 2 weeks instead of 1 week). I know hard for the fidgety who want to play with their very expensive new toy.

For curiousity what brightness/contrast/etc... do you generally use? Also which model is it? I have the impression you probably have the 5020/6020 since those are supposed to have it much worse than the m/sig elite series.
post #1594 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by budd99 View Post

I don't know if I'm being clear, but what I mean is that there are two distinct sounds coming from the back, one normal, and the other I assume is panel buzz, which I'm still trying to figure out if it's comparable to other buzzing panels, or actually worse.

You might hear panel buzz from the back but it's probably still electronics. My electronics change in tone and intensity according to output power but they're completely inaudible from the front so I try to avoid going behind the panel.

My panel buzz is unique and consistent in character, tracks APL exactly and is profoundly directional.

As easy test:
Put something bright but localized on (my HR-23 menu is a good source). Stand next to the panel and move you head around. If an annoying -- sawtooth hinted annoying -- sound is audible at some locations and not others it's the panel.
post #1595 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlplover View Post

So basically you're confirming what I said about leaving it on for extended periods at high settings causing the buzz. Obv. varies some from set to set and I'm not saying to not do break-in, I'm saying that you should stagger it over an extended period to give it time to rest (maybe 2 weeks instead of 1 week). I know hard for the fidgety who want to play with their very expensive new toy.

For curiousity what brightness/contrast/etc... do you generally use? Also which model is it? I have the impression you probably have the 5020/6020 since those are supposed to have it much worse than the m/sig elite series.

Not exactly confirming, while the buzz gets louder during movie watching and the tv gets very hot (I need to use the ac to overcome this) if I turn the tv off and come back a few days later even if the tv is cold the milisecond I switch it on the buzzing is there, quite loud. I swear I never heard the fans run. If I get my head behind the panel I can hear the typical electrical humming/noise but none of it is heard when in front of the panel just the buzz and that up to 30ft (I have a wall there so can't get further back).

Brightness/contrast don't bother I have tried every setting listening for the buzz and only the Power Save Mode 2 works (up to a point ofcourse). For the record I use the default settings of 0/40. First thing I changed was Enhancer Mode, I set to 1 from 2 as 2 is blurry. Also Film Mode to Advance. Sharpness -15, DRE to Mid (I like a bit of extra punch), all others to OFF. That's it I think off the top of my head.

I have an 8g pro-110fd, I only post in the 9g buzz thread as the 8g one is dead. After auditioning several kuros for 7g to 9g I can tell you they all buzz some more than others so it is irrelevant to what exact set you have. The 8g was my first plasma (& last) and I was let to believe that all plasmas buzz but after auditioning a few panny plasmas those buggers where quiet as a mouse, colours were better (not black), had a clearer/smoother image and they were very cool running, good thing I hated the looks and remote.

If it weren't for the buzz I could live with this tv for ever, it has many shortcomings but these are livable, the buzz is not for me unfortunately.

P.S. don't bother looking in the Service and or Integrator Menu, nothing there which eliminates the buzz, already checked I also tried tapping the bezel/screen and bending the frame but got scared I break something. Still buzzes.

EDIT: I've recorded a ~2min clip with my phone switching the tv several times on/off, switching channels, switching between Energy Mode 2 and Off and running the build in White Bar Test (sorry I forgot the name). I came over here transfered the file and played the video. You can hear all sorts of sounds (pc fan in another room/button presses/cars driving past/ambient noise/etc.) but NO BUZZ That was the loudest sound in the room. My phone is totally oblivious to it (I've cranked my speakers as far as they would go). How can I make my hearing the same as the phones I'll get a pc mic and record on the pc tomorrow.
post #1596 of 1626
If it's a matter of heat, then you could try an aircleaner (if the fans are getting clogged with dust). Another possibility is to have a good tech (ie one who really knows electronics) come and check your circuitboards. If it's coming from the circuitry, then maybe replacing the buzzing capacitors with higher quality ones would fix it.
post #1597 of 1626
This whole buzzing issue sorta has me a bit bummed. Everything else about this TV is so perfect. Anyways, I'm having someone from the store where I bought it to come and check it out, I'll see what he thinks then take it from there. It wouldn't bother me so much if I knew for sure that ALL sets buzzed, which means there's nothing I can, and I can just sit down and enjoy the set. However, considering that some people claim that their sets are silent, at this point we don't know if it's their hearing (that particular frequency), or if their sets actually don't buzz. It's the feeling of having a buzzer when you know you could possibly have a silent set that is killing me....Anyways, there are worse things in life than a buzzing TV!
post #1598 of 1626
If it's coming from the panel itself, it's the screen and you can't do much. If it's from the back of the TV, it's either the fan or the circuitry. Capacitors can be replaced, assuming you get a tech who also has any knowledge of circuitry and has the stuff to test. The big problem really is that my impression most of the techs aren't really trained to identify individual capacitors etc... or parts of circuit boards that are busted. Most people with that kind of expertise can get more money doing other work.
post #1599 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by budd99 View Post

However, considering that some people claim that their sets are silent, at this point we don't know if it's their hearing (that particular frequency), or if their sets actually don't buzz.

It's that frequency, all kuros buzz. My phone couldn't pick it up and the pio tech that came to view the set couldn't either. Don't listen to the people telling you that their tv doesn't buzz because for them it doesn't if they can't hear it. I have seen thousands of reports on buzzing but not even one of a person who had a buzzer and got a perfectly silent replacement. (because there isn't one)

It is not the end of the world though. The panels have variations between them. I suggest you try another two panels atleast before you find the one that has the lowest buzz. Do NOT listen to it at the store, bring the tv home and audition it at night. Loud noises during the day tend to mask the buzz if you don't know what you're looking for.

I hope you have a friendly dealer. Pio covers their asses pretty well in the manual.

"The following are typical effects and characteristics of a phosphor-based matrix display and as such, are not covered by the manufacturer’s limited warranties:

Panel generated sounds, examples: Fan motor noise, and electrical circuit humming/glass panel buzzing

Flat screen TV driving sound
The screen of the flat screen TV is composed of extremely fine pixels and these pixels emit light according to received video signals. This principle may make you hear buzz sound or electrical circuit humming from the flat screen TV.

Panel sounds/noises.
Panel generated sounds—for example, fan motor noise, electrical circuit humming, glass panel buzzing—are normal operation of a phosphor-based matrix display.
When you change the Energy Save mode, you may notice a change in the panel sound. This is normal."
post #1600 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by budd99 View Post

This whole buzzing issue sorta has me a bit bummed. Everything else about this TV is so perfect. Anyways, I'm having someone from the store where I bought it to come and check it out, I'll see what he thinks then take it from there. It wouldn't bother me so much if I knew for sure that ALL sets buzzed, which means there's nothing I can, and I can just sit down and enjoy the set. However, considering that some people claim that their sets are silent, at this point we don't know if it's their hearing (that particular frequency), or if their sets actually don't buzz. It's the feeling of having a buzzer when you know you could possibly have a silent set that is killing me....Anyways, there are worse things in life than a buzzing TV!

This is classic "buzzy panel owner" syndrome. Seriously, that's the dilemma that so many here have faced over the past 15-16 months: it's virtually impossible to know whether your own panel buzz is within a normal range or whether it's excessive. And you don't want to settle for one of the outliers.

I agree with 720p that you should ignore the owners who say theirs is utterly silent. Not because I suspect their honesty or their hearing, but because their experience ultimately isn't relevant to you or your decision. The only thing that matters is your own experience of that panel that's sitting in your house right now. If it buzzes loud enough to diminish the HT experience you bought it for, that's a significant problem for you and it simply doesn't matter how it compares to anyone else's panel.

For most owners who found the set too loud with Energy Mode OFF, using Mode 2 resolved the problem. When it didn't, those owners typically sought repair or replacement. Repair usually fails, and replacement seems to have roughly equal odds of getting one that's the same, worse, or better. Some owners that don't consider Mode 2 an acceptable solution even when it eliminates the buzz, either on principal or because they feel it's detrimental to PQ, also tried repair or replacement.

So, here's my suggestion: stop reading this thread and just use your panel for a few days. Watch lots of your typical content, trying Energy Mode OFF and Mode 2. (Try some blind testing if you can....have somebody else change it when you're not looking....) If you can enjoy your TV without being bothered by buzz or PQ issues in either mode, I'd consider that a solution. If you can't, if the buzz really annoys you, look into returning it. Again I agree with 720p....if it really bothers you now, you shouldn't assume you'll get used to it.
post #1601 of 1626
Hi...i had a question regarding playing movies (DVD, blu-ray) in pure mode which contain black bars (letterbox) My Krp-500m is only a couple of weeks old, and i wanted to know if i should hold off on watching any movies with black bars until the TV is broken in to avoid burn in?

any help would be appreciated.
post #1602 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by aimthatbuddy View Post

Hi...i had a question regarding playing movies (DVD, blu-ray) in pure mode which contain black bars (letterbox) My Krp-500m is only a couple of weeks old, and i wanted to know if i should hold off on watching any movies with black bars until the TV is broken in to avoid burn in?

any help would be appreciated.

Pioneer's recommendation is to simply mix up your content so that an equivalent amount of full-screen content is displayed. So, if you watch a movie with masking bars, follow it up with some sports or whatever that fills the screen. There's really no need to get too obsessive about this.....common sense is adequate to protect these panels from IR & BI. They are very robust in that regard.
post #1603 of 1626
Thanks much for the information progprog!
post #1604 of 1626
Bought a Pro-111FD in May. I didn't have any issues with buzzing. Then about a month ago I started to hear it. I switched to mode 2 and it removed it. This week I noticed it again even in mode 2. If it doesn't get any worse it won't be a problem................

I only use the TV occasionally but I love the picture.
post #1605 of 1626
well I just bought a 6020FD and have noticed it buzzes quite a bit louder at night than in the morning before I go to work. I've done some tests with the same content, at night, then in the morning....and it's pretty consistent.

Anyone else notice this? Any ideas to why this may be? It's not that it's quieter at night so I'm just noticing it more either, I've been alone in my house at both times and get the same results.
post #1606 of 1626
I can't hear a buzz from my 5020 no matter how hard i try.
post #1607 of 1626
Both my previous 1540 HD + present 151FD buzz. Can be heard from 13 feet on very quiet bright scenes. But I'm past it and on to enjoying the TV. I encourage others to also let it go and move on. I know it's hard but you are not alone. We all buzz a little. Life is imperfect and so is Kuro.
post #1608 of 1626
My 101FD buzzed the first time I ever turned it on, but that was only when I put my ear to the set and I haven't heard it since.
post #1609 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by console View Post

Both my previous 1540 HD + present 151FD buzz. Can be heard from 13 feet on very quiet bright scenes. But I'm past it and on to enjoying the TV. I encourage others to also let it go and move on. I know it's hard but you are not alone. We all buzz a little. Life is imperfect and so is Kuro.

You clearly don't understand this issue as it affects some panels, and by your own description, it's not a problem with your Kuros (which is great ). So your advice, though admirably existential and all that, doesn't really have any application or usefulness to people who bought defective panels.
post #1610 of 1626
My 151FD buzzes, I can hear it clearly from 13ft. away...I had a 5080HD before that buzzed quite clearly, I returned it because of that...But, I kept the 151FD, because the picture is phenomenal, and it was the last panel from Pioneer...I have a 500M in the other room that is much quieter, the buzzing can only be heard if you put your ear up to the screen

I had three Panasonic plasmas before that only buzzed behind the screen...
post #1611 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

You clearly don't understand this issue as it affects some panels, and by your own description, it's not a problem with your Kuros (which is great ). So your advice, though admirably existential and all that, doesn't really have any application or usefulness to people who bought defective panels.

It is true that I may have been existentially insensitive to those that suffer the buzz. And I did not say that it has not been a problem with my panels. I said both my panels buzz. And believe me that I am hyper-sensitive to "distortion" in many areas of my life.

The point I was trying to make is that, from the hard data collected in this forum, I believethat all panels buzz to varying degrees. The acoustical environment in which the TV is situated (i.e. soft absorptive vs. hard reflective surrounding surfaces) is another significant variable.

But the primary variable is the human being that is either tuned into or tuned out of the buzz. I suggest a gentle pro-active tuning out and enjoying the best TV that mankind has created to date.

Of course if someone comes up the THE BUZZ CURE for Kuro panels - I'm in - not matter what the cost. jh
post #1612 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by console View Post

Of course if someone comes up the THE BUZZ CURE for Kuro panels - I'm in - not matter what the cost. jh

The only cure I found for a 151 that was too loud was replacement.
post #1613 of 1626
The buzz on my 101FD is definitely slightly more quiet than on my 5080HD and the 1150HD that replaced it. I can't really hear my friend's 5060HD buzz and the reason is the wine cooler in the same room and a refrigerator about 20 feet away drown it out for the most part. At first I thought it was a huge problem and it annoyed me to no end, but now I am used to it and I don't even notice anymore. Anyone who can't hear the buzz or needs to get right next to the set is just kind of deaf. My dad cannot hear it at all on my tv, but everyone else I know can. So he would post no buzz in this thread if it was him.
post #1614 of 1626
My newly owned 5020 buzzes. It is most audible about 10-13 feet away directly in front of the display when there is little if no background noise also on the program being viewed (think 1 on 1 interview on a set like Bob Costas in the Olympic studio). It is hard to hear as much from other angles. It only becomes audible when the Direct TV receiver is engaged for the picture. When you intially power up the display (without picture), the display buzzes immediately, but then goes away within 60 seconds as there is no picture yet. Once the display engages an image, the buzz starts.

If you stand above the display with volume muted and pictured engaged, the buzz come from the upper part of the panel through the perforated back panel. It is clearly from the panel itself and not some electrical connection in the panel. Unfortunately, as the remote is being shipped to be presently, I have not had a chance to do anything with the picture settings, such as the recommended power save changes. I will be interested to see if this makes a difference. I have an inkling that it does... my Pioneer 4280 buzzes audibly from about 8 feet ahead when sitting directly in front of the display and it I know has some tweaked settings, thus the audible buzz is very low compared to the new acquired 5020.

In the end, when the volume is turned up to fill the room, the buzz is not annoying; if you are nighttime viewing with the wife and kids in bed, it can be. However, the PQ of the display warrants my keeping this set. I cannot image giving back a display that looks THAT good!!!
post #1615 of 1626
Just got my 101FD and started brake-in slides yesterday. The monitor is in my office running the slides and I can only sit about 6' back from it. On bright white slides, I can really here it buzz. When the monitor displays a dark blue slide it is hard to hear it buzz.
Yes the buzz comes from both the front glass and behind the set from all the vent holes.

I think I will move it tonight to the living room and put some tv content on it. If it buzzes and annoyes me, it will be going back.
post #1616 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackal2001 View Post

Just got my 101FD and started brake-in slides yesterday. The monitor is in my office running the slides and I can only sit about 6' back from it. On bright white slides, I can really here it buzz. When the monitor displays a dark blue slide it is hard to hear it buzz.
Yes the buzz comes from both the front glass and behind the set from all the vent holes.

I think I will move it tonight to the living room and put some tv content on it. If it buzzes and annoyes me, it will be going back.

set to power save mode 2 switch back n forth.

I have a 111/151 both buzz. The picture is amazing on these sets. If very quiet scenes I can hear it but I have pu my OCD away on this because the picture is so nice.

In powersave mode 2 on my 111 the buzz disappears, on my 151 I can hear it a bit. The buzz is only audible when seated in a certain location. Off angle it is inaudible.
post #1617 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackal2001 View Post

Just got my 101FD and started brake-in slides yesterday. The monitor is in my office running the slides and I can only sit about 6' back from it. On bright white slides, I can really here it buzz. When the monitor displays a dark blue slide it is hard to hear it buzz.
Yes the buzz comes from both the front glass and behind the set from all the vent holes.

I think I will move it tonight to the living room and put some tv content on it. If it buzzes and annoyes me, it will be going back.

It's disconcerting when you first hear it, but try to withhold judgment until you can see how it performs in real-world use. Those break-in slides (which aren't really applicable to your panel, BTW) are just not a good test of the panel's performance. There's no audio and, as in your case, the panel and viewer are often not yet positioned in their normal locations. By all means, be sure to try Energy Mode 2 if the buzz is still annoying under normal use conditions; it's very likely that it'll make the buzz effectively inaudible.
post #1618 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

It's disconcerting when you first hear it, but try to withhold judgment until you can see how it performs in real-world use. Those break-in slides (which aren't really applicable to your panel, BTW) are just not a good test of the panel's performance. There's no audio and, as in your case, the panel and viewer are often not yet positioned in their normal locations. By all means, be sure to try Energy Mode 2 if the buzz is still annoying under normal use conditions; it's very likely that it'll make the buzz effectively inaudible.

The weird thing is, when sitting 11' back from the tv and sitting directly in front of it with your head about the same height as the center of the screen you can hear the buzzing. If you move your body up about 4-5" you can't hear the buzzing. If I would have a shorter TV stand I wouldn't be able to hear it. Also if sitting on the side of the tv with your head in line with the edge of the TV you can't hear it.
It is weird that you have to sit exactly in the center of the screen to hear it.
I did try Energy Mode 2 and it didn't seem to affect overall brightness when running movies from my HTPC. It did seem to lower the brightness when watching DirectTV.
post #1619 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackal2001 View Post

The weird thing is, when sitting 11' back from the tv and sitting directly in front of it with your head about the same height as the center of the screen you can hear the buzzing. If you move your body up about 4-5" you can't hear the buzzing. If I would have a shorter TV stand I wouldn't be able to hear it. Also if sitting on the side of the tv with your head in line with the edge of the TV you can't hear it.
It is weird that you have to sit exactly in the center of the screen to hear it.
I did try Energy Mode 2 and it didn't seem to affect overall brightness when running movies from my HTPC. It did seem to lower the brightness when watching DirectTV.

Your experience is not weird at all. That directionality is a very common characteristic of panel buzz, and as you noted, it's all too often directly zeroed in on your seating position. Does Energy Mode 2 limit the buzz to an acceptable level?
post #1620 of 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Your experience is not weird at all. That directionality is a very common characteristic of panel buzz, and as you noted, it's all too often directly zeroed in on your seating position. Does Energy Mode 2 limit the buzz to an acceptable level?

Yes, Energy Mode 2 lowers the buzz so that I can't really notice it anymore which is good because Blacks are now Black and this monitor is stunning. I only have this tested in my HTPC input but I will try Energy Mode 2 on my DirectTV input later on and see if it makes a difference as well.
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