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Please help me pick a projector that best fits my enviroment/setup...

post #1 of 14
6/30/08 at 12:23pm
Thread Starter 
After some research, I have decided that I want to replace my 63" plasma with a projector. I am new to this scene so understanding throw distance, light output, height etc is a little overwhelming.

The room I want to place the projector in is 21' length, 13' width with an 8' ceiling. There are two windows both on the same side of the wall. The ceiling is painted white and the walls/carpet are a dark beige.

This setup will be used 80% of the time at night a rare viewing during the day with curtains shut for gaming/sports. At night there is no ambient light in the room with the curtains shut and all the lights off.

My IDEAL seating distance would be about 15'-16' from the screen with the projector placed on a shelf that is 5' tall and about 19' away from the screen. As a COMPROMISE for a better projector I would be willing to ceiling mount the projector anywhere in between the screen and my seating area for a better quality unit. However, it would be much easier to just throw it up on the shelf behind the seating area.

As for screen size, I want to go as big as possible. To still get that feeling of being submerged in the picture would 120" diag be big enough? What size would be recommended for that seating distance of around 15'-16'?

Through some searching on the forum and on projector review sites I found these projectors to have good reviews.

1. InFocus 7210

2. Marantz VP-4001

3. BenQ PE8720

4. Sharp XV-Z12000 Mark II

5. Marantz VP-12S4

6. Sanyo PLV-Z2000


Now would I be correct in stating that the XV-Z12000MK2 and VP-12S4 would not be bright enough for my setup? I really want a projector that is going to give me dark/inky blacks. I hate when black looks dark grey on some sets.

Lastly, since I will only be using this projector for around 5-7 hours a week for movies/gaming and don't want to spend a fortune on it. I will be using a smaller 50"-58" plasma for regular cable TV viewing. I guess my budget would be around $1500 for the PJ and $500 or so for the screen.

Any advice/comments would be greatly appreciated!
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post #2 of 14
6/30/08 at 2:16pm
You can forget these as you need lens shift in order to shelf mount.

1. InFocus 7210

2. Marantz VP-4001

3. BenQ PE8720

5. Marantz VP-12S4


If you can still find a Sharp XV-Z12000 Mark II , then go for that. I have not see a MKII in that price range for a while now.
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post #3 of 14
6/30/08 at 2:21pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwlaw99 View Post

You can forget these as you need lens shift in order to shelf mount.

1. InFocus 7210

2. Marantz VP-4001

3. BenQ PE8720

5. Marantz VP-12S4


If you can still find a Sharp XV-Z12000 Mark II , then go for that.

Will that Sharp be bright enough and have the throw distance needed for my setup? In the few reviews I read, I came away with the conclusion that it was a rather dim projector.

What exactly is lens shift by the way?
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post #4 of 14
6/30/08 at 3:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwlaw99 View Post

You can forget these as you need lens shift in order to shelf mount.

1. InFocus 7210

2. Marantz VP-4001

3. BenQ PE8720

5. Marantz VP-12S4


If you can still find a Sharp XV-Z12000 Mark II , then go for that. I have not see a MKII in that price range for a while now.

The Marantz VP-12S4 has a huge amount of lens shift and is a good projector for rear shelf mount. That is how I use my 12S4.

Go to the Sharp XV-Z12000 Mark II thread and you will find a post from today listing one (used) for sale in your price range. Also if you are planning on rear shelf mounting from that distance onto a 120" screen then you are going to need a screen with a lot of gain. Something like a DaLite High Power. The 7210 will work (not need HP screen) as long as you ceiling mount it. All other projectors in your list will need a screen with some gain.
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post #5 of 14
6/30/08 at 3:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by B Feelgood View Post

Will that Sharp be bright enough and have the throw distance needed for my setup? In the few reviews I read, I came away with the conclusion that it was a rather dim projector.

What exactly is lens shift by the way?

The Sharp does have the throw, but you will want a screen with gain. A 12000 MK II and DaLite HP is an excellent combo. Same with the 12S4 and HP. The Gamepimp uses the 12000 MK II with HP and I use the 12S4 with HP. I am shooting onto a 106" screen from 14'-2" and I use my 12S4 on economy with the iris clamped down. In other words I have the projector putting out it's least amount of lumens and my image has a lot of pop.

Use the projector calculator at Projector Central: www.projectorcentral.com/SharpVision-XV-Z12000_MARK_II-projection-calculator-pro.htm

Vertical lens shift is the ability to shift the image up or down with out distorting the image. Horizontal is the same thing except from side to side. This is a common feature in LCD projectors, but entry level DLP projectors do not have this feature. The only DLP projectors in your pice range that will have this feature are older high end 720p projectors.
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post #6 of 14
6/30/08 at 4:01pm
For excellent blacks the 12S4 and 12000MKII will be best, not by leaps and bounds but better non the less. The HP screen will be a must have element in your system especially with both projectors in there 'best' mode and situated almost 20' away from the screen. A 106-110' screen would be good for your stated viewing distance.
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post #7 of 14
6/30/08 at 4:28pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the info thus far...

The sharp is looking pretty good right now because putting it on a shelf in the rear of the room would be much easier "wiring/mounting".

Next for screens. Assume I know nothing about fabric and high/low power screens. I used the Projector Central calculator and it came up with these results.

Sharp XV-Z12000 MARK II
Throw distance = 19'5"
Screen size = 117" diag
Gain = 1.5 Seems to be in the middle of the green section

I plan to use a screen size of around 120"-130". I assume that these screens are not easily returnable, so I would like to make sure I get this right. To be safe, how much gain should I be looking for in a screen? Is there a downside for getting a screen with to much gain? Should I be getting a matte white finish or the grey?

It doesn't have to be anything fancy. Just want it to be functional and give me the best picture I can get from this projector. Manual pull down would be fine and I don't really want the fixed frame kind.
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post #8 of 14
6/30/08 at 5:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by B Feelgood View Post

Thanks for the info thus far...

The sharp is looking pretty good right now because putting it on a shelf in the rear of the room would be much easier "wiring/mounting".

Next for screens. Assume I know nothing about fabric and high/low power screens. I used the Projector Central calculator and it came up with these results.

Sharp XV-Z12000 MARK II
Throw distance = 19'5"
Screen size = 117" diag
Gain = 1.5 Seems to be in the middle of the green section

I plan to use a screen size of around 120"-130". I assume that these screens are not easily returnable, so I would like to make sure I get this right. To be safe, how much gain should I be looking for in a screen? Is there a downside for getting a screen with to much gain? Should I be getting a matte white finish or the grey?

It doesn't have to be anything fancy. Just want it to be functional and give me the best picture I can get from this projector. Manual pull down would be fine and I don't really want the fixed frame kind.

For a 120" screen and 19'-6" throw you need a screen with a lot of gain. That setup calls for a HP screen or something similar. I do have a question. You say you want to rear shelf mount and that is the best configuration for using a HP screen, but a HP requires a low rear shelf mount. The lens of the projector and your eyes need to be within the viewing cone. Also keep in mind the lumens of the projector will eventually drop down to half what they were when the bulb was new.
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post #9 of 14
6/30/08 at 6:08pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjg100 View Post

For a 120" screen and 19'-6" throw you need a screen with a lot of gain. That setup calls for a HP screen or something similar. I do have a question. You say you want to rear shelf mount and that is the best configuration for using a HP screen, but a HP requires a low rear shelf mount. The lens of the projector and your eyes need to be within the viewing cone. Also keep in mind the lumens of the projector will eventually drop down to half what they were when the bulb was new.

If I put the PJ on the shelf behind the sofa it can be set one one of two places. The first spot would be approximately 1' above eyesight. The second spot on the shelf is approximately 2' above eyesight. Both spots could pretty much put the lens aim dead center on the screen by moving the screen up/down on the wall slightly. There will only be a small 3 person sofa in the room and it will be positioned in the middle of the screen so viewing angles shouldn't be a concern.

What do you mean when you talk about "viewing cone"? Is the setup I just described good enough with a HP screen? The Da-Lite high power screen with a 2.8 gain seems to fit my budget. Should I be looking at a screen with a higher gain then that like the Vutec Silverstar with a 6.0 gain?
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post #10 of 14
7/1/08 at 5:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by B Feelgood View Post

If I put the PJ on the shelf behind the sofa it can be set one one of two places. The first spot would be approximately 1' above eyesight. The second spot on the shelf is approximately 2' above eyesight. Both spots could pretty much put the lens aim dead center on the screen by moving the screen up/down on the wall slightly. There will only be a small 3 person sofa in the room and it will be positioned in the middle of the screen so viewing angles shouldn't be a concern.

What do you mean when you talk about "viewing cone"? Is the setup I just described good enough with a HP screen? The Da-Lite high power screen with a 2.8 gain seems to fit my budget. Should I be looking at a screen with a higher gain then that like the Vutec Silverstar with a 6.0 gain?

With the projector lens only 2' above your eyes you are well with in the viewing cone. It sounds like you have a perfect set-up for using a HP screen.
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post #11 of 14
7/1/08 at 10:03pm
Thread Starter 
Just wanted to post a little update to this thread...

I finally decided on the Sharp XV-Z12000 MARK II projector and a 119" Da-Lite model C high power screen 2.8 gain. The PJ will be here tomorrow and the screen should be here sometime next week. Everything about this combo seemed to be good when I ordered everything but now I am little worried if this is going to work or not.

I plug these numbers in the ProjectorCentral calculator:

Throw Range = 18'6"
Zoom= 1.15X
Screen gain = 2.8
Screen size = 119" Diag

These are the results I get:

Recommended seating = 12' - 19'
Max room lighting = 9% 3FC
Image brightness = 30fL

According to those results it seems like it will be ok but I have no idea how accurate that site is. I literally skimmed over all 72 pages in the MK2 thread and found only 3-4 people using this PJ on screens larger than 100". It seems that the general consensus is that this projector only works well with smaller screens. I obviously want to use this PJ in it "best settings" in order to get the phenomenal picture everyone raves about but I am afraid it will be to dim.

Basically just looking for some reassurance here! I prob still have time to back out of the screen but I now own the PJ.
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post #12 of 14
7/2/08 at 4:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by B Feelgood View Post

Just wanted to post a little update to this thread...

I finally decided on the Sharp XV-Z12000 MARK II projector and a 119" Da-Lite model C high power screen 2.8 gain. The PJ will be here tomorrow and the screen should be here sometime next week. Everything about this combo seemed to be good when I ordered everything but now I am little worried if this is going to work or not.

I plug these numbers in the ProjectorCentral calculator:

Throw Range = 18'6"
Zoom= 1.15X
Screen gain = 2.8
Screen size = 119" Diag

These are the results I get:

Recommended seating = 12' - 19'
Max room lighting = 9% 3FC
Image brightness = 30fL

According to those results it seems like it will be ok but I have no idea how accurate that site is. I literally skimmed over all 72 pages in the MK2 thread and found only 3-4 people using this PJ on screens larger than 100". It seems that the general consensus is that this projector only works well with smaller screens. I obviously want to use this PJ in it "best settings" in order to get the phenomenal picture everyone raves about but I am afraid it will be to dim.

Basically just looking for some reassurance here! I prob still have time to back out of the screen but I now own the PJ.

High contrast mode 350 lumens x 2.6 gain (derated) = 910 lumens/41.89 SF (screen size) = 21.72 FL. That is plenty of brightness. Theaters have around 16 FL with out film in the gate. When your bulb is worn out the FL will be about half what you get with the new bulb so at some point you probably will either have to open an iris or go to high power. This projector will provide a good image in high power, but it will be a little bit louder.

Here is why people talk about 100" being the largest screen used with this projector. 350 lumens x 1.0 (gain) = 350 lumens/29.60 SF (screen) = 11.87 FL. Already on the low side and that is with a new bulb.

If they had a 1.3 gain screen: 350 x 1.3 = 455/29.60 = 15.37 FL. This number is fine with new bulb, but will be rather dim once the bulb has wear on it.

Your FL (foot lambert) numbers are well above what they are getting. Relax and enjoy. You are going to have an excellent set-up.
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post #13 of 14
7/2/08 at 8:23am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjg100 View Post

High contrast mode 350 lumens x 2.6 gain (derated) = 910 lumens/41.89 SF (screen size) = 21.72 FL. That is plenty of brightness. Theaters have around 16 FL with out film in the gate. When your bulb is worn out the FL will be about half what you get with the new bulb so at some point you probably will either have to open an iris or go to high power. This projector will provide a good image in high power, but it will be a little bit louder.

Here is why people talk about 100" being the largest screen used with this projector. 350 lumens x 1.0 (gain) = 350 lumens/29.60 SF (screen) = 11.87 FL. Already on the low side and that is with a new bulb.

If they had a 1.3 gain screen: 350 x 1.3 = 455/29.60 = 15.37 FL. This number is fine with new bulb, but will be rather dim once the bulb has wear on it.

Your FL (foot lambert) numbers are well above what they are getting. Relax and enjoy. You are going to have an excellent set-up.

Nice

I was just reading a review of the Mark II on HomeTheaterMag and they had some #'s for black levels. Here is the excerpt from that article:

"In the High brightness mode, the black level was a fairly decent 0.016 ft-L. Medium mode offered a respectable 11.6 ft-L and a drop to 0.005 ft-L. In the High contrast mode, the black level dropped even further to 0.003 ft-L. One of my complaints about the previous model was that, in the same mode, there was only 6.85 ft-L of light, which is dim. The XV-Z12000 MARK II increases this to 10.6 ft-L, which is far more watchable. Turn the Economy mode on, and the black level drops even further. Now you can get 0.002 ft-L in the High contrast mode with about 7.3 ft-L on the light-output side."

I could see myself being quite happy with a black level of 0.005ft-L that medium mode offers. Does anyone have any idea as to what the lumen output is in medium mode with economy mode off? Also, the projector I got has around 700-800 hours on the original bulb. I know the bulb is rated for 2000 hours but would it be to soon to replace it now? After how many hours of use would the bulb be at half brightness?
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post #14 of 14
7/2/08 at 11:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by B Feelgood View Post

Nice

I was just reading a review of the Mark II on HomeTheaterMag and they had some #'s for black levels. Here is the excerpt from that article:

"In the High brightness mode, the black level was a fairly decent 0.016 ft-L. Medium mode offered a respectable 11.6 ft-L and a drop to 0.005 ft-L. In the High contrast mode, the black level dropped even further to 0.003 ft-L. One of my complaints about the previous model was that, in the same mode, there was only 6.85 ft-L of light, which is dim. The XV-Z12000 MARK II increases this to 10.6 ft-L, which is far more watchable. Turn the Economy mode on, and the black level drops even further. Now you can get 0.002 ft-L in the High contrast mode with about 7.3 ft-L on the light-output side."

I could see myself being quite happy with a black level of 0.005ft-L that medium mode offers. Does anyone have any idea as to what the lumen output is in medium mode with economy mode off? Also, the projector I got has around 700-800 hours on the original bulb. I know the bulb is rated for 2000 hours but would it be to soon to replace it now? After how many hours of use would the bulb be at half brightness?

Lamps are not rated to failure. Lamps are rated for half life. That means, if you have a lamp that is rated for 2,000 hours, once the bulb reaches 2,000 hours then it will be half as bright as it was when new. There is no guaranty that the lamp will reach 2,000 hours.
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