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Official Sony KDL-XXZ4100 Calibration Thread - Page 9

post #241 of 357
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibre34 View Post

My settings with 205R update,
Color Space Standard, color temperature Warm1

My setting

Picture menu:
Picture Mode: Custom
Backlight: 6
Picture: 86
Brightness: 53
Color: 54
Hue: 0
Color Temperature: Warm 1
Sharpness: 10
Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Off


Advanced Settings menu:
Black Corrector: Off
Advanced C.E.: Off
Gamma: Off
Clear White: Off
Color Space: Standard
Live Color: Off


White Balance menu:
R-Gain: 0
G-Gain: -4
B-Gain: -4
R-Bias: -1
G-Bias: 1
B-Bias: -5


Motion Enhancer: Standard
CineMotion: Auto 2
Game Mode: Off
Video/Photo Optimizer: Video


General Setup menu
Power Saver: Off
Light Sensor: Off

It´s closer to D65 and there in not red push

Let me know if you like them

Thanks for the new settings. I tried them with the Standard Color setting and skin tones look more natural. I did have to boost my Color setting to 60 or so to compensate for the Wide Color's vibrancy but once I did that, I got a very nice image.
post #242 of 357
What is everyone using to calibrate their TV's? Are you getting them calibrated by an ISF certified tech or using Spyder3 Colorimeter hardware or using software such as Avia II or Video essentials?
post #243 of 357
Anyone try employing the ACE feature? It seems like it'd be a good option in theory, yet most recommend leaving it off. Wondering if this truly "worsens" the picture or messes up any of your tuned settings, or if it truly just provides some increased contrast, which would be a good thing? I had it on high for quite a while and my picture seemed pretty good...
post #244 of 357
I posted about my frustration with the Z4100 after my recent purchase. Since then I have done more home work ... and went to friends' homes to check on their Z. I have to be completely honest ... I am disappointed. Maybe it's my untrained eyes. Z is a complete hit and miss. Some HD programs, such as Entertainment Tonight, appeared great; but many other HD programs looked washed out. There is nothing wrong with my SET; I've seen 3 of them so far .... they all look the same to me. Yes I calibrated and followed all kinds of advices I can find. I don't have a blu-ray player so I can't comment on that. But with a Toshiba upscale DVD player (upscale to 1080i or 720P) or HD programs through Brighthouse, sony's picture is worse than my generic 720P Hisense bought 3 years ago on many fronts. Sony's picture is often softer; in many scenes, there appear to be a thin layer of fog (you know I mean) so the picture is not sharp. Sometimes the coloring is not even.

I also compared it to my 65-inch Hitach Rear Projection HDTV (big box), the Hitachi looked more nature with deeper black.

I really wanted to like the Z since I saved for a year to buy it. But I am disappointed.

Maybe that's the way it is ... I just could not understand what's so great about it. Maybe it's meant to be used with a blu-ray player ...

post #245 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamfrugal2 View Post

I posted about my frustration with the Z4100 after my recent purchase. Since then I have done more home work ... and went to friends' homes to check on their Z. I have to be completely honest ... I am disappointed. Maybe it's my untrained eyes. Z is a complete hit and miss. Some HD programs, such as Entertainment Tonight, appeared great; but many other HD programs looked washed out. There is nothing wrong with my SET; I've seen 3 of them so far .... they all look the same to me. Yes I calibrated and followed all kinds of advices I can find. I don't have a blu-ray player so I can't comment on that. But with a Toshiba upscale DVD player (upscale to 1080i or 720P) or HD programs through Brighthouse, sony's picture is worse than my generic 720P Hisense bought 3 years ago on many fronts. Sony's picture is often softer; in many scenes, there appear to be a thin layer of fog (you know I mean) so the picture is not sharp. Sometimes the coloring is not even.

I also compared it to my 65-inch Hitach Rear Projection HDTV (big box), the Hitachi looked more nature with deeper black.

I really wanted to like the Z since I saved for a year to buy it. But I am disappointed.

Maybe that's the way it is ... I just could not understand what's so great about it. Maybe it's meant to be used with a blu-ray player ...


PQ on my Z (build date January 2009 with 205r update) is great with HD cable feed from Comcast through HDMI cable... sometimes looks close to as good as a Blu-Ray on certain channels... Not sure what you problem would be or if there is that much of a disparity between sets...
post #246 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamfrugal2 View Post

Yes the Light Sensor is off. I actually used Warm 1 instead of Warm 2. The settings I quoted was my starting point but then I tweaked them further based on recommendations from this forum.

I'll try Ibre34's settings but I really suspect something is not right with the TV set. I bought it from TigerDirect recently ... unfortunately they are out of stock so I may not be able to exchange it. Plus it was a great price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JmPTaz View Post

PQ on my Z (build date January 2009 with 205r update) is great with HD cable feed from Comcast through HDMI cable... sometimes looks close to as good as a Blu-Ray on certain channels... Not sure what you problem would be or if there is that much of a disparity between sets...

The build date of mine was July 2008 ... not sure if that made a difference. I updated the firmware with 205r too but did not notice difference.
post #247 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibre34 View Post

My settings with 205R update,
Color Space Standard, color temperature Warm1

My setting

Picture menu:
Picture Mode: Custom
Backlight: 6
Picture: 86
Brightness: 53
Color: 54
Hue: 0
Color Temperature: Warm 1
Sharpness: 10
Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Off


Advanced Settings menu:
Black Corrector: Off
Advanced C.E.: Off
Gamma: Off
Clear White: Off
Color Space: Standard
Live Color: Off


White Balance menu:
R-Gain: 0
G-Gain: -4
B-Gain: -4
R-Bias: -1
G-Bias: 1
B-Bias: -5


Motion Enhancer: Standard
CineMotion: Auto 2
Game Mode: Off
Video/Photo Optimizer: Video


General Setup menu
Power Saver: Off
Light Sensor: Off

It´s closer to D65 and there in not red push

Let me know if you like them

This rocks! My only change was to disable motion enhancement.
post #248 of 357
I'm using Ibre34's warm 1 standard settings but with backlight toned down to 4... Look's great. Seems to preserve blacks better on my set with lower backlight with colors still plenty bright...
post #249 of 357
Just got my 40z 2 weeks ago, this is dumb but if I have this TV with advanced features , why do I need to turn most of them off to get a nice picture?

Today I upgraded to 205r and used some settings found here. Color space at wide gave me red faces so I am using normal.

Out of the 4 screen sizes which is the best to use, standard always gives side and bottom bars but the picture is great. The others get grainy.
post #250 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by ron2368 View Post

Just got my 40z 2 weeks ago, this is dumb but if I have this TV with advanced features , why do I need to turn most of them off to get a nice picture?

Today I upgraded to 205r and used some settings found here. Color space at wide gave me red faces so I am using normal.

Out of the 4 screen sizes which is the best to use, standard always gives side and bottom bars but the picture is great. The others get grainy.

If it's the same as the 46z4100 menu, you would want wide mode: full and display area: full pixel. If full pixel gives you a green line or any other weird results on your cable feed (does on mine), switch it to normal. Leave on full pixel for blu ray source.
Advanced settings just take an already great picture and try to enhance it, typically making it worse - this is per the "experts"... I do like the PQ with advanced options off.
post #251 of 357
My settings with 205R update, BL at 5
Color Space Standard, color temperature Warm1

My setting

Picture menu:
Picture Mode: Custom
Backlight: 5
Picture: 85
Brightness: 55
Color: 54
Hue: 0
Color Temperature: Warm 1
Sharpness: 10
Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Off


Advanced Settings menu:
Black Corrector: Off
Advanced C.E.: Off
Gamma: Off
Clear White: Off
Color Space: Standard
Live Color: Off


White Balance menu:
R-Gain: 0
G-Gain: -3
B-Gain: -4
R-Bias: -1
G-Bias: 2
B-Bias: -5


Motion Enhancer: Standard
CineMotion: Auto 2
Game Mode: Off
Video/Photo Optimizer: Video


General Setup menu
Power Saver: Off
Light Sensor: Off
post #252 of 357
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibre34 View Post

My settings with 205R update, BL at 5
Color Space Standard, color temperature Warm1

My setting

Picture menu:
Picture Mode: Custom
Backlight: 5
Picture: 85
Brightness: 55
Color: 54
Hue: 0
Color Temperature: Warm 1
Sharpness: 10
Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Off


Advanced Settings menu:
Black Corrector: Off
Advanced C.E.: Off
Gamma: Off
Clear White: Off
Color Space: Standard
Live Color: Off


White Balance menu:
R-Gain: 0
G-Gain: -3
B-Gain: -4
R-Bias: -1
G-Bias: 2
B-Bias: -5


Motion Enhancer: Standard
CineMotion: Auto 2
Game Mode: Off
Video/Photo Optimizer: Video


General Setup menu
Power Saver: Off
Light Sensor: Off

I tried the small modifications that you made but didn't really see a discernable difference. I use the Power Saver on Low and have the backlight at 5 and that may be the equivalent of the backlight on 4 (or maybe even 3) with the Power Saving off. With either set, I still have my color set on 60. With the Standard color space, I find that anything less decreases the "pop" in the picture too much. Either way though, your white balance settings are all good.
post #253 of 357
Wrong Thread
post #254 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal1981 View Post

I tried the small modifications that you made but didn't really see a discernable difference. I use the Power Saver on Low and have the backlight at 5 and that may be the equivalent of the backlight on 4 (or maybe even 3) with the Power Saving off. With either set, I still have my color set on 60. With the Standard color space, I find that anything less decreases the "pop" in the picture too much. Either way though, your white balance settings are all good.

I agree with Cal that picture looks much better with backlight down, I use 4 with power save options off, that's about perfect for me - dark enough to make darks deep and bright enough to make colors pop. Have not tried inceasing the color to 60, don't know if that would be necessary, but will give it a quick try to see what you're talking about.

I too like Ibre34's white balance settings, though admit that I haven't really tried many others, hard to find any other white balance settings anywhere else on the net... Most of us are too cheap to buy a good colorimeter I guess!

Ibre34 - is your colorimeter and/or calibration disc telling you to have backlight up that high, or do you just prefer it? I just wonder because I love your settings, but wonder if they are still ideal for my 4 backlight. As little as it is, the jump from 4-5 is quite a bit brighter in my opinion.

Thanks!
post #255 of 357
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JmPTaz View Post

I too like Ibre34's white balance settings, though admit that I haven't really tried many others, hard to find any other white balance settings anywhere else on the net... Most of us are too cheap to buy a good colorimeter I guess!

Ibre34 - is your colorimeter and/or calibration disc telling you to have backlight up that high, or do you just prefer it? I just wonder because I love your settings, but wonder if they are still ideal for my 4 backlight. As little as it is, the jump from 4-5 is quite a bit brighter in my opinion.

I've tried a buch of different settings from users here as well as my own and right now I feel that Ibre34's current set for 205r are the best that I've used. The overall color balance and, very importantly, skin tones, hold up on any type of source material that I can throw at my set. I'm not convinced that the backlight level has that much of an influence on the color accuracy though. My feeling is that the relationship between the back light, brightness and picture levels are in their own corner of the universe and the color, tempurature, Hue and white balance levels are in another corner. I try to keep my backlight at the lowest level that I can without losing picture vibrancy and compensate with the Picture setting. The BL has a major impact on black levels. I've also found that setting the ACE to low or medium also makes blacks "blacker" although you have to careful about getting some crushing. When you adjust the ACE you can immediately see the impact on the picture so it's easy to make a decision on it.
post #256 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal1981 View Post

I've tried a buch of different settings from users here as well as my own and right now I feel that Ibre34's current set for 205r are the best that I've used. The overall color balance and, very importantly, skin tones, hold up on any type of source material that I can throw at my set. I'm not convinced that the backlight level has that much of an influence on the color accuracy though. My feeling is that the relationship between the back light, brightness and picture levels are in their own corner of the universe and the color, tempurature, Hue and white balance levels are in another corner. I try to keep my backlight at the lowest level that I can without losing picture vibrancy and compensate with the Picture setting. The BL has a major impact on black levels. I've also found that setting the ACE to low or medium also makes blacks "blacker" although you have to careful about getting some crushing. When you adjust the ACE you can immediately see the impact on the picture so it's easy to make a decision on it.

I've been considering/wanting to employ the ACE feature for awhile; made a post a little while back but no bites... I've run it on high, medium and low before, and really didn't notice any negative effectives truthfully (no black crush or anything). I'm buying DVE on BD tonight and will do my own calibration; it's the cheapest disc I can find at any stores around here so I'll post my results after calibration. I figured I might as well do my own, since they say each set can vary. I don't think it has anything to measure white balance with (??) so I'll use Ibre34's settings for that. Will post my results after calibrating with DVE.
post #257 of 357
My settings, first run through with Digital Video Essentials Blu Ray

Picture menu:
Picture Mode: Standard
Backlight: 4
Picture: 87
Brightness: 54
Color: 53
Hue: R2
Color Temperature: Warm 2
Sharpness: 8
Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Off


Advanced Settings menu:
Black Corrector: Off
Advanced C.E.: Off
Gamma: Off
Clear White: Off
Color Space: Standard
Live Color: Off


White Balance menu:
Factory Default


Motion Enhancer: Standard
CineMotion: Auto 1
Game Mode: Off
Video/Photo Optimizer: Video


General Setup menu
Power Saver: Off
Light Sensor: Off

----------

Question, what's the difference between video-A and video in the optimizer?
post #258 of 357
I also made a movie setting using cinema mode, as DVE tells you to use the cinema setting for best color decoding:

Picture menu:
Picture Mode: Cinema
Backlight: 4
Picture: 94
Brightness: 54
Color: 45
Hue: R2
Color Temperature: Warm 2
Sharpness: min
Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Off


Advanced Settings menu:
Black Corrector: Off
Advanced C.E.: Off
Gamma: Off
Clear White: Off
Color Space: Standard
Live Color: Off


White Balance menu:
Factory Default


Motion Enhancer: Standard
CineMotion: Auto 1
Game Mode: Off
Video/Photo Optimizer: Video


General Setup menu
Power Saver: Off
Light Sensor: Off

-This looks really nice on a movie on FX channel, and I haven't even tried a Blu Ray yet...
post #259 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by JmPTaz View Post

My settings, first run through with Digital Video Essentials Blu Ray

Picture menu:
Picture Mode: Standard
Backlight: 4
Picture: 87
Brightness: 54
Color: 53
Hue: R2
Color Temperature: Warm 2
Sharpness: 6
Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Off


Advanced Settings menu:
Black Corrector: Off
Advanced C.E.: Off
Gamma: Off
Clear White: Off
Color Space: Standard
Live Color: Off


White Balance menu:
Factory Default


Motion Enhancer: Standard
CineMotion: Auto 1
Game Mode: Off
Video/Photo Optimizer: Video-A


General Setup menu
Power Saver: Off
Light Sensor: Off

----------

Question, what's the difference between video-A and video in the optimizer?


Really liking these settings, everything the same but switched sharpness down to 6; I think DVE did a nice job. I like this even better than Ibre34's settings, which I've been comparing directly by having his on my custom setting. His colors seem too light, or white, sort of under-saturated... maybe it's just my taste. I think I'm just going to leave it like this and quit messing with it Give em a try and let me know if you like.
post #260 of 357
Just in case anyone is trying these, and in the spirit of providing more options; I made sure my TV was warmed up today (unsure if I did that properly first time through) and re-calibrated with DVE:

46Z4100:

Picture menu:
Picture Mode: Standard
Backlight: 4
Picture: 83
Brightness: 55
Color: 53
Hue: R2
Color Temperature: Warm 2
Sharpness: 6
Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Off


Advanced Settings menu:
Black Corrector: Off
Advanced C.E.: Off
Gamma: Off
Clear White: Off
Color Space: Standard
Live Color: Off


White Balance menu:
Factory Default (0's)


Motion Enhancer: Standard
CineMotion: Auto 1
Game Mode: Off
Video/Photo Optimizer: Video-A


General Setup menu
Power Saver: Off
Light Sensor: Off

-Cannot explain why I had to increase brightness after my TV warmed up?? but these are the settings I got, which I checked two or three times, and ended up confirming these settings are how my TV should look according to DVE (and I must say it looks pretty damn good!) A very clean, accurate picture.

Recommend DVE if anyone is considering a cheap, good calibration disc (paid $30 for the Blu Ray version). Not sure if there is really a lot of variation between sets or not, but might be worth doing your own Cal. Lending it to a buddy tomorrow to calibrate his 40s4100.

Cheers!
post #261 of 357
My settings with 205R update,
Color Space Wide, BL 5

My setting

Picture menu:
Picture Mode: Custom
Backlight: 5
Picture: 86
Brightness: 54
Color: 54
Hue: 0
Color Temperature: Neutral
Sharpness: 10
Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Off


Advanced Settings menu:
Black Corrector: Off
Advanced C.E.: Off
Gamma: Off
Clear White: Off
Color Space: Wide
Live Color: Off


White Balance menu:
R-Gain: 0
G-Gain: -5
B-Gain: -11
R-Bias: -1
G-Bias: 2
B-Bias: -5


Motion Enhancer: Standard
CineMotion: Auto 2
Game Mode: Off
Video/Photo Optimizer: Video


General Setup menu
Power Saver: Off
Light Sensor: Off
post #262 of 357
I've tweaked the settings a little bit and this is a really good setting if you want deep blacks with realistic colors; I've reduced the backlight and fine tuned with DVE. I've found I came up with similar settings to the CNET dark room settings, only I find that they jacked the color up way too high, and I've increased backlight 2 notches for a really good mix:

Picture menu:
Picture Mode: Cinema
Backlight: 2
Picture: 94
Brightness: 53
Color: 45
Hue: R2
Color Temperature: Warm 2
Sharpness: min
Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Off


Advanced Settings menu:
Black Corrector: Off
Advanced C.E.: Off
Gamma: Off
Clear White: Off
Color Space: Standard
Live Color: Off


White Balance menu:
Factory Default


Motion Enhancer: Standard
CineMotion: Auto 1
Game Mode: Off
Video/Photo Optimizer: Video


General Setup menu
Power Saver: Off
Light Sensor: Off

Really liking this picture, seems to be my favorite yet... I primarily watch in low light/dark room environment, but it still looks good with some lights on, etc.

I think these settings are worth a try... each mode is configured differently and I think Cinema may be set up the best; I prefer tweaking that as opposed to using a custom setting.
post #263 of 357
I just had this tv calibrated today. I scanned the calibration settings and included them here.



According to the calibrator's computer the picture settings listed in the report had the following color percentages prior to service menu adjustment:

Red 1%
Green 0%
Blue 20%

These pictures settings were basis for the service menu adjustments that were also included in the scanned report. They probably won't help because they are specific to my tv, but the picture settings should be good for most (compared to factory settings). I was using ibre34's latest settings and the calibrator was surprised how close they were to optimal (by non-service menu standards) before he began the service menu adjustments. I am also using the latest firmware (2.05r). After the service menu adjustment the RGB percentages were all 0%.
post #264 of 357
Quote:
**According to the calibrator's computer the picture settings listed in the report had the following color percentages prior to service menu adjustment:

Red 1%
Green 0%
Blue 20%

These pictures settings were basis for the service menu adjustments that were also included in the scanned report. They probably won't help because they are specific to my tv, but the picture settings should be good for most (compared to factory settings). I was using ibre34's latest settings and the calibrator was surprised how close they were to optimal (by non-service menu standards) before he began the service menu adjustments. I am also using the latest firmware (2.05r). After the service menu adjustment the RGB percentages were all 0%.[/quote]**

*Sweet! I tried these settings out and they look great. I ran a quick check on my DVE disc and use contrast 89, but bumped brightness up to 52 and color down to 50 for my set. I went into the service menu and used those settings, and the picture looks great. I figured even if it is particular to each set, that it would be better than factory. The Z is kicking ass now!

p.s. Where it says Gamma 2.20, did he set that somewhere, or was that just his reading? Did he have all advanced settings off?

Thanks!
post #265 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by enron View Post

I just had this tv calibrated today. I scanned the calibration settings and included them here.

Thanks for the info, I have a 46z4100 also! I have a ton of questions:

Pre-calibration, were you using color balance settings different from all zeros?
Did the calibrator guy set those back to zero before doing a cal?
Did he only calibrate one input?
Did he just have to change the rgb gain and offset once and it applies
to all inputs or does each input have its own gain and offset settings in the service menu?
Likewise does each color temp have its own gain and offsets?
Did he use a DVD or a Bluray cal disk?
How did he calibrate for watching through the tuner?
How long did it take him to do it?
Was it at night or in a completely dark room?
Do you know what color sensor he used?
Was ACE (auto contrast enhancer) set to off?
Was Gamma set to off?
Backlight of 7 seems high. Do you have "power saving" enabled or "light sensor" enabled?

Enquiring minds want to know! Thanks!
post #266 of 357
Same questions here...
post #267 of 357
How do I go to service menu?
post #268 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibre34 View Post

How do I go to service menu?

-Turn the TV off.
-Press {DISPLAY} {5} {VOL+} {POWER ON} buttons.
-The Service Menu will be displayed.
-Use numbers {1} and {4} to select the item to adjust.
-Use numbers {3} and {6} to adjust the value of the data.
-Press {MUTE} then {ENTER} to save new settings.
-The words "WRITE" in red will show up in the upper right corner if saved.
-Turn the TV off to exit the service menu.

(I found it worked best when you pressed this combo quickly after turning off the tv, it may take a couple times to work. You do not need to hold the buttons down all at once. Instead of "write" being in red on mine, it said "write" in green on mine, but I checked and the settings saved. The 1&4 keys toggled between the different colors, as I think that is the first option that displays on the screen. Then just use the 3&6 to change the settings, was real easy.)
post #269 of 357
I was doing some tests

- each color temp (standard and wide) have its own gain and offsets
- changing the rgb gain and offset once it applies to all inputs
post #270 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibre34 View Post

I was doing some tests

- each color temp (standard and wide) have its own gain and offsets
- changing the rgb gain and offset once it applies to all inputs

I did a little research, too. JmPTaz is close but not quite complete. More complete instructions are:
-Turn the TV off.
-Press {DISPLAY} {5} {VOL+} {POWER ON} buttons.
-The first page of the Service Menu will be displayed.
-Press {JUMP} to flip between Service Menu pages.
-Use numbers {1} and {4} to select the item to adjust.
-Use numbers {2} and {5} to select the category within a menu.
-Use numbers {3} and {6} to adjust the value of the data.
-Press {MUTE} then {0} to save new settings to NVM.(non-volatile-memory)
If you don't press {0} after {MUTE} the settings are saved but will be lost if you unplug the TV. Adding the {0} makes it permanent.
-The words "WRITE" in red will show up in the upper right corner if saved to NVM, "WRITE" is green if only saved temporarily.
-Turn the TV off to exit the service menu.

GREEN TEXT EDITED TO CORRECT ERRORS (thanks ibr34):
Changing color temps while in the service menu can be a bit tricky. The service menu doesn't know when you change color temps, it keeps displaying the info from the original color temp. Each color temp has its own set of rgb gain and bias settings in the service menu. Setting a color temp,such as WARM1, applies to all inputs. There are two ways to move between color temps.

1) Leave the service menu (by turning the tv off). Change color temp. Re-Enter the service menu and it will display the new settings for that color temp.

2) Stay in the service menu. Change color temps. Load settings for that color temp into the service menu from the NVM by Pressing {9} then Pressing {0} adjust color temp then save that color temp by pressing {MUTE} then {0}


To summarize,
{MUTE} = Write
{9} = Read
{0} = NVM (permanent storage)

Some Diagnostic info can also be displayed here:
-Press {DISPLAY} {5} {VOL-} {POWER ON} buttons.

I think there may be an hour counter somewhere in that long number, I'll check it again after the tv has been on for a while.

As Always, Change the wrong thing in the service menu and you could be royally screwed!
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