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Official Sony KDL-XXZ4100 Calibration Thread - Page 10

post #271 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzig View Post

I did a little research, too. JmPTaz is close but not quite complete. More complete instructions are:
-Turn the TV off.
-Press {DISPLAY} {5} {VOL+} {POWER ON} buttons.
-The first page of the Service Menu will be displayed.
-Press {JUMP} to flip between Service Menu pages.
-Use numbers {1} and {4} to select the item to adjust.
-Use numbers {2} and {5} to select the category within a menu.
-Use numbers {3} and {6} to adjust the value of the data.
-Press {MUTE} then {0} to save new settings to NVM.(non-volatile-memory)
If you don't press {0} after {MUTE} the settings are saved but will be lost if you unplug the TV. Adding the {0} makes it permanent.
-The words "WRITE" in red will show up in the upper right corner if saved to NVM, "WRITE" is green if only saved temporarily.
-Turn the TV off to exit the service menu.

Changing inputs while in the service menu can be a bit tricky. The service menu doesn't know when you change inputs, it keeps displaying the info from the original input. IBRE34, this is probably why you came to the conclusion that changing values affects all inputs at once. It does not. Each input has its own set of rgb gain and bias settings in the service menu. There are two ways to do it.

1) Leave the service menu (by turning the tv off). Change inputs. Re-Enter the service menu and it will display the new settings for that input.

2) Stay in the service menu. Change inputs. Load new settings for that input into the service menu from the NVM by Pressing {9} then Pressing {0}

To summarize,
{MUTE} = Write
{9} = Read
{0} = NVM (permanent storage)

Some Diagnostic info can also be displayed here:
-Press {DISPLAY} {5} {VOL-} {POWER ON} buttons.

I think there may be an hour counter somewhere in that long number, I'll check it again after the tv has been on for a while.

As Always, Change the wrong thing in the service menu and you could be royally screwed!


Nice, I will have to ensure changes are made to both inputs that I use (1&3). Did you notice if there is any place to adjust gamma to ensure it's at 2.2, and how it's done? I haven't flipped through the various pages in the SM yet...
Thanks!
post #272 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by JmPTaz View Post

Did you notice if there is any place to adjust gamma to ensure it's at 2.2, and how it's done?

Gamma is not a single adjustment. Gamma is determined by taking lots of light readings at different levels with a meter and then the gamma is calculated from the results. Adjustments that affect Gamma are brightness, contrast, backlight, all the rgb gains and biases, the gamma setting in the menus (high, med, etc), ace, black corrector, etc, pretty much all that stuff. The auto dimming pretty much screws up any gamma readings, so you have to be sure auto dimming is not occurring while taking the measurements.
post #273 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzig View Post

Gamma is not a single adjustment. Gamma is determined by taking lots of light readings at different levels with a meter and then the gamma is calculated from the results. Adjustments that affect Gamma are brightness, contrast, backlight, all the rgb gains and biases, the gamma setting in the menus (high, med, etc), ace, black corrector, etc, pretty much all that stuff. The auto dimming pretty much screws up any gamma readings, so you have to be sure auto dimming is not occurring while taking the measurements.



I was just wondering if there are any adjustments in the SM for Gamma and if any change to said settings is required to help the TV achieve a Gamma close to 2.2. I realize it is a reading and you cannot just set it to a number. I just have it off right now and it looks fine, but just want to see if any of you that know much more than me have any tips
post #274 of 357
Are you sure? because I did turned off the TV, changed input and then enter the service menu again... but the settings were modified.

I'll post my calibration results later this evening

For adjusting gamma to 2.2 you have to make sure the brightness at 10 IRE is 0.65% the brightness at 100 IRE. At my last calibration I got a 2.27 gamma which is very close to 2.2
post #275 of 357
My settings with 205R update, BL at 5, service menu
Color Space Standard, color temperature Warm1

My setting

Picture menu:
Picture Mode: Custom
Backlight: 5
Picture: 86
Brightness: 54
Color: 57
Hue: 0
Color Temperature: Warm 1
Sharpness: 10
Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Off


Advanced Settings menu:
Black Corrector: Off
Advanced C.E.: Off
Gamma: Off
Clear White: Off
Color Space: Standard
Live Color: Off


White Balance menu:
R-Gain: 0
G-Gain: 0
B-Gain: 0
R-Bias: 0
G-Bias: 0
B-Bias: 0

R_DVR: 106
G_DVR: 100
B_DVR: FD
R_BKG: 1FD
G_BKG: 200
B_BKG: 1F5

Motion Enhancer: Standard
CineMotion: Auto 2
Game Mode: Off
Video/Photo Optimizer: Video


General Setup menu
Power Saver: Off
Light Sensor: Off
post #276 of 357
My settings with 205R update, BL at 5, service menu
Color Space Wide, Color temperature Neutral

My setting

Picture menu:
Picture Mode: Custom
Backlight: 5
Picture: 86
Brightness: 54
Color: 57
Hue: 0
Color Temperature: Neutral
Sharpness: 10
Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Off


Advanced Settings menu:
Black Corrector: Off
Advanced C.E.: Off
Gamma: Off
Clear White: Off
Color Space: Wide
Live Color: Off


White Balance menu:
R-Gain: 0
G-Gain: 0
B-Gain: 0
R-Bias: 0
G-Bias: 0
B-Bias: 0

R_DVR: 10A
G_DVR: 100
B_DVR: F2
R_BKG: 1FD
G_BKG: 200
B_BKG: 1F7

Motion Enhancer: Standard
CineMotion: Auto 2
Game Mode: Off
Video/Photo Optimizer: Video


General Setup menu
Power Saver: Off
Light Sensor: Off
post #277 of 357
So, is there a benefit to using the SM to adjust the RGB settings over using the white balance settings under the normal menuing?
post #278 of 357
Definitely. Colors are more acurate
post #279 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibre34 View Post

Are you sure? because I did turned off the TV, changed input and then enter the service menu again... but the settings were modified.

ibr34, you are right, I was mistaken. Setting rgb gain and offset in the service menu for a particular color temp applies to that color temp for all inputs.

If your inputs differ somewhat, you can still make tweaks in the user color balance menu, which is specific to each input.
post #280 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibre34 View Post

For adjusting gamma to 2.2 you have to make sure the brightness at 10 IRE is 0.65% the brightness at 100 IRE. At my last calibration I got a 2.27 gamma which is very close to 2.2

I have a meter ordered that should arrive pretty soon, but I've been reading up on doing a cal. I have some cal disks, but my tv does auto backlight dimming on the very low brightness test patterns. I'm assuming that this would screw up gamma calculation. What test pattern disks do you use? Can you tell if it auto dims on 10 IRE? Have you found the dimming to be a problem during calibration?
Thanks.
post #281 of 357
I use DVE HD Blu Ray.
I really haven't notice the auto dimming during calibration...LOL.. but it can be a pain in the %$#$% during normal viewing
post #282 of 357
Thanks for the info.
If you have a Kill A Watt meter (by P3), you can easily see when it is auto dimming based on power consumption. The power jumps down in discrete steps as it dims. When in the non dimmed mode, the tv's consumption is real steady.
post #283 of 357
libre34 - When would you watch the TV using the color space standard settings over the color space wide settings or the other way around? Which sttings are good for what program I guess is what I am asking.

Thanks and really appreciate your settings. They have always worked out great for me.
post #284 of 357
I only have SD TV. Wide space settings looks better... in my opinion
post #285 of 357
My settings with 205R update, BL at 6, service menu
Color Space Standard, color temperature Warm1

My setting

Picture menu:
Picture Mode: Custom
Backlight: 6
Picture: 86
Brightness: 54
Color: 57
Hue: 0
Color Temperature: Warm 1
Sharpness: 10
Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Off


Advanced Settings menu:
Black Corrector: Off
Advanced C.E.: Off
Gamma: Off
Clear White: Off
Color Space: Standard
Live Color: Off


White Balance menu:
R-Gain: 0
G-Gain: 0
B-Gain: 0
R-Bias: 0
G-Bias: 0
B-Bias: 0

R_DVR: 106
G_DVR: 100
B_DVR: FB
R_BKG: 1FF
G_BKG: 200
B_BKG: 1F5

Motion Enhancer: Standard
CineMotion: Auto 2
Game Mode: Off
Video/Photo Optimizer: Video


General Setup menu
Power Saver: Off
Light Sensor: Off

IT LOOKS BETTER THAN BL at 5
post #286 of 357
My settings with 205R update, BL at 6, service menu
Color Space Wide, Color temperature Warm1

My setting

Picture menu:
Picture Mode: Custom
Backlight: 6
Picture: 86
Brightness: 54
Color: 54
Hue: 0
Color Temperature: Warm 1
Sharpness: 10
Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Off


Advanced Settings menu:
Black Corrector: Off
Advanced C.E.: Off
Gamma: Off
Clear White: Off
Color Space: Wide
Live Color: Off


White Balance menu:
R-Gain: 0
G-Gain: 0
B-Gain: 0
R-Bias: 0
G-Bias: 0
B-Bias: 0

R_DVR: 106
G_DVR: 100
B_DVR: F8
R_BKG: 200
G_BKG: 200
B_BKG: 1FE

Motion Enhancer: Standard
CineMotion: Auto 2
Game Mode: Off
Video/Photo Optimizer: Video


General Setup menu
Power Saver: Off
Light Sensor: Off
post #287 of 357
Sweet, nice colors Ibre34! Really looks good on my wide setting.
I like to use Standard instead of custom. Here are some settings that look great on my TV using Ibre34's service menu adjustments on colors. It's really not much different, but this picture looks great. There seem to be subtle differences between cinema, custom, standard regarding contrast and color when I calibrate using DVE. Really looks sweet watching HD cable right now...

My setting

Picture menu:
Picture Mode: Standard
Backlight: 6
Picture: 83
Brightness: 54
Color: 53
Hue: 0
Color Temperature: Warm 1
Sharpness: 4
Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Off


Advanced Settings menu:
Black Corrector: Off
Advanced C.E.: Off
Gamma: Off
Clear White: Off
Color Space: Wide
Live Color: Off


White Balance menu:
R-Gain: 0
G-Gain: 0
B-Gain: 0
R-Bias: 0
G-Bias: 0
B-Bias: 0

R_DVR: 106
G_DVR: 100
B_DVR: F8
R_BKG: 200
G_BKG: 200
B_BKG: 1FE

Motion Enhancer: Standard
CineMotion: Auto 1
Game Mode: Off
Video/Photo Optimizer: Video


General Setup menu
Power Saver: Off
Light Sensor: Off
post #288 of 357
I used backlight 6 and tried liking it, but I've now bumped it down to 3 and find a significant improvement in dark scenes; aka black looking black instead of gray, while still providing plenty of brightness. You can bump it down to minimum and get even better blacks, but you lose a little brightness... I find 3 is a good mix. I have power saving settings off. I checked on DVE and the picture, brightness and color settings did not need to be altered. I also went back to the professional calibrator's color settings in the service menu which looks good.
post #289 of 357
I think I've actually settled on backlight 4 for my standard settings... also went back to standard color space... wide was just too much, especially with skin tones.

Picture mode standard, BL 4, picture 83, color 53, brightness 54, sharpness 4, color space standard, color temp warm 1, everything else to 0 is what I'm finally settling on (also used professional calibrator's service menu tweaks) ... looks spectacular!
post #290 of 357
I tried these settings on my recently purchased z4100 but have started seeing red trails. I did not go into the service menu, however, just did all the base settings that can be controlled in the options menu.


Initially I really liked these settings compared to a previous set from ibre34. Colours seemed way better, but the trailing is really noticeable.

Anyone else seeing the red trails?



Quote:
Originally Posted by ibre34 View Post

My settings with 205R update, BL at 6, service menu
Color Space Standard, color temperature Warm1

My setting

Picture menu:
Picture Mode: Custom
Backlight: 6
Picture: 86
Brightness: 54
Color: 57
Hue: 0
Color Temperature: Warm 1
Sharpness: 10
Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Off


Advanced Settings menu:
Black Corrector: Off
Advanced C.E.: Off
Gamma: Off
Clear White: Off
Color Space: Standard
Live Color: Off


White Balance menu:
R-Gain: 0
G-Gain: 0
B-Gain: 0
R-Bias: 0
G-Bias: 0
B-Bias: 0

R_DVR: 106
G_DVR: 100
B_DVR: FB
R_BKG: 1FF
G_BKG: 200
B_BKG: 1F5

Motion Enhancer: Standard
CineMotion: Auto 2
Game Mode: Off
Video/Photo Optimizer: Video


General Setup menu
Power Saver: Off
Light Sensor: Off

IT LOOKS BETTER THAN BL at 5
post #291 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibre34 View Post

My settings with 205R update, BL at 6, service menu
Color Space Wide, Color temperature Warm1

My setting

Picture menu:
Picture Mode: Custom
Backlight: 6
Picture: 86
Brightness: 54
Color: 54
Hue: 0
Color Temperature: Warm 1
Sharpness: 10
Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Off


Advanced Settings menu:
Black Corrector: Off
Advanced C.E.: Off
Gamma: Off
Clear White: Off
Color Space: Wide
Live Color: Off


White Balance menu:
R-Gain: 0
G-Gain: 0
B-Gain: 0
R-Bias: 0
G-Bias: 0
B-Bias: 0

R_DVR: 106
G_DVR: 100
B_DVR: F8
R_BKG: 200
G_BKG: 200
B_BKG: 1FE

Motion Enhancer: Standard
CineMotion: Auto 2
Game Mode: Off
Video/Photo Optimizer: Video


General Setup menu
Power Saver: Off
Light Sensor: Off

----------------

you using this for 360/PS3 also too?
post #292 of 357
In my service menu the changes below I made and saved to NVM apply to all HDMI inputs. I did the changes on Input 1 and when I went to input 2, 3, and 4 the changes were already there.

Changes that I made on HDMI input 1 and was also on the other 3 HDMI inputs without me having to do it.
R_DVR: 106
G_DVR: 100
B_DVR: F8
R_BKG: 200
G_BKG: 200
B_BKG: 1FE
post #293 of 357
Yes, it seems that you get separate rgb adjustments in the service menu for each color temp (cool, neutral, warm1 and warm2) and they apply to all inputs, including TV. Sort of the "master" color balance controls for each color temp, if you will.

If you need to have differences between inputs, you can then tweak the 4 color temps individually for each input, in the user menu color balance adjustments. These adjustments are in addition to anything done in the service menu.

When making adjustments in the service menu, be sure the user menu color balance settings are all set to zero for the input and color temp that you are working with, so as not to confuse what you are coming up with for all the other inputs.
post #294 of 357
ibre34 keeps posting calibration settings, which are good? Why so many?
post #295 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by TempletonPeck View Post

ibre34 keeps posting calibration settings, which are good? Why so many?

They are variations he's arrived at with his calibration tools and different backlight and color temperature/space settings, as well as with each new software update. Theoretically, his most recent settings should be the best, depending upon whether you like standard or wide color space. I prefer standard, and have posted my own settings based on my research and DVE.
post #296 of 357
Could some explain what the values (High,Low,Medium) of Live color mean ?
Does it represent the bit depth of the Deep color option.

I was using S&M Blu ray disk to calibrate and one of the patterns(Clipping) that showed White,RGB colors were supposed to show gradations. Only the white and Green showed them, Red and Blue were all showing no gradations. Turning to Color Space "Standard" did show, them. I was assuming that "Live" color should be able to show better gradations than "Standard".
Thanks
post #297 of 357
Thanks, ibre34, for posting your settings and keeping up with the new firmware releases. It's a great public service you're doing.
post #298 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dralt View Post

Thanks, ibre34, for posting your settings and keeping up with the new firmware releases. It's a great public service you're doing.

ibre34

I also would like to thank you for all your help. My TV is much more enjoyable thanks to you.

Thanks a bunch.
post #299 of 357
Does anyone have any settings for a regular DVD player?

I have to set that input away from the defaults because it doesn't look so good.
post #300 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by TempletonPeck View Post

Does anyone have any settings for a regular DVD player?

I have to set that input away from the defaults because it doesn't look so good.


Buy a PS3, then you'll have the ultimate dvd and gaming machine. Awesome machines, they upconvert well and play blu ray well, also lots of good games... good deal, since you've already invested so much in your TV.
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