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Official Sony KDL-XXZ4100 Calibration Thread - Page 4

post #91 of 357
I'll try to calibrate today using Warm 1 and Warm 2 settings

I'll post my results
post #92 of 357
ok weird thing i just noticed about the ACE setting. Before I was told it ONLY affects dark scenes, but just now when i turned it on low it makes everything on my xbox360 dashboard (which is VERY bright,its all made up of green/yellow/blue/red/white) darker. Its as if i turned down the backlight 1 or notches. Can someone explain why ACE is dimming the picture even on something bright? I dont like how its doing this. I dont mind it making the darker scenes darker as long as the auto dimm is less obvious,but it does annoy me if it dims down bright scenes as well.
post #93 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibre34 View Post

I'll try to calibrate today using Warm 1 and Warm 2 settings

I'll post my results

I'd like to see your Warm 1 and 2 settings, since Warm 2 is reported in expert online reviews to be closer to spec.

Heretofore I've been using, the following settings after firmware update 2.00:

Custom
Backlight 5 (4 for BD)
Picture 75
Brightness 50
Color 50
Hue 0
Color Temp Neutral (not Warm 1 or 2, or Cool)
Sharpness 10
Noise Reduction Low
MPEG Noise Reduction Low
Black Corrector Low
Advanced CE Low
Gamma Medium
Clear White Off
Color Space Wide
Live Color Off
White Balance:
R-gain 0
G-gain -4
B-gain -6
R-bias 2
G-bias 0
B-bias -3

I don't have a calibration disk. This is by viewing various cable channels and movies.
post #94 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper2847 View Post

ok weird thing i just noticed about the ACE setting. Before I was told it ONLY affects dark scenes, but just now when i turned it on low it makes everything on my xbox360 dashboard (which is VERY bright,its all made up of green/yellow/blue/red/white) darker. Its as if i turned down the backlight 1 or notches. Can someone explain why ACE is dimming the picture even on something bright? I dont like how its doing this. I dont mind it making the darker scenes darker as long as the auto dimm is less obvious,but it does annoy me if it dims down bright scenes as well.

I don't have an xbox360 so I don't know what the dashboard is composed of. If it is brightly colored letters on a black background, the processor may interpret that as a dark scene. Or maybe it is all filled with brightly lit colors and background, but none of the colors used contains, say, any green (or some other primary color), so the processor interprets the scene as having very dark green and dims the backlight for it. I am just speculating, perhaps you could post a picture of the dashboard.

What is your brightness setting set to for the 360's input? If you need to have the brightness set higher for the 360input than you do for over-the-air tv stations, then that would indicate that the 360 is putting out video with an intrinsically lower brightness level than the processor is expecting, so it interprets even medium bright scenes as dark scenes and dims the backlight.

As I said in a previous post, the processor doesn't take into account what you have the brightness setting set to. So if you have to crank the brightness way up to make a scene look normal (or even extra bright), the processor stills calls it a dim scene. If ACE is on, it starts dimming the backlight sooner than it would if ACE were off. If ACE is off, it doesn't dim the backlight until the scene is quite dark, but then it is an all or nothing proposition.

I recommend leaving ACE off, unless you get a lot of auto dimming that bothers you, then put it on low to minimize the effect. There really aren't any other options. Its just something that has to be lived with.

I attached a graph of my interpretation of how ACE works. I haven't been able to explore low vs high settings. I suspect the high setting may start dimming even sooner (on brighter scenes) to make the slope of the green line more gentle. I'm also not sure where the vertical red line crosses the sloped green line, but I think it is very close to the bottom of the red vertical line. It's also possible that ACE on low is more like the lower graph, which would have it start dimming already on fairly bright scenes. My spouse gets tired of my constant fiddling with the new TV!


LL
LL
post #95 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzig View Post

I don't have an xbox360 so I don't know what the dashboard is composed of. If it is brightly colored letters on a black background, the processor may interpret that as a dark scene. Or maybe it is all filled with brightly lit colors and background, but none of the colors used contains, say, any green (or some other primary color), so the processor interprets the scene as having very dark green and dims the backlight for it. I am just speculating, perhaps you could post a picture of the dashboard.

What is your brightness setting set to for the 360's input? If you need to have the brightness set higher for the 360input than you do for over-the-air tv stations, then that would indicate that the 360 is putting out video with an intrinsically lower brightness level than the processor is expecting, so it interprets even medium bright scenes as dark scenes and dims the backlight.

As I said in a previous post, the processor doesn't take into account what you have the brightness setting set to. So if you have to crank the brightness way up to make a scene look normal (or even extra bright), the processor stills calls it a dim scene. If ACE is on, it starts dimming the backlight sooner than it would if ACE were off. If ACE is off, it doesn't dim the backlight until the scene is quite dark, but then it is an all or nothing proposition.

I recommend leaving ACE off, unless you get a lot of auto dimming that bothers you, then put it on low to minimize the effect. There really aren't any other options. Its just something that has to be lived with.

I attached a graph of my interpretation of how ACE works. I haven't been able to explore low vs high settings. I suspect the high setting may start dimming even sooner (on brighter scenes) to make the slope of the green line more gentle. I'm also not sure where the vertical red line crosses the sloped green line, but I think it is very close to the bottom of the red vertical line. It's also possible that ACE on low is more like the lower graph, which would have it start dimming already on fairly bright scenes. My spouse gets tired of my constant fiddling with the new TV!


Ok here is a link so some pictures of how the X360 dashboard looks. If you need more just google it and you wil find plenty.

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgur...3Doff%26sa%3DX


Clearly the 360 is using primary colors including green. Each time I slide over to a different color on the dashboard the backlight dims the picture again. My brightness is set to 45 and I also have a PS3 connected to the TV and brightness looks about the same on both. I dont think the xbox is producing less light than anything else would. I guess maybe the TV interprets the black writing on the colorful background to be a dark scene? I guess that could be it but only a minimal part of the overall picture has black...
post #96 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper2847 View Post

Each time I slide over to a different color on the dashboard the backlight dims the picture again. My brightness is set to 45

Is that with ACE on or off? Brightness at 45 sounds standard. I did find some movies of the dashboard in action. It is very colorful and pretty.

All I can guess is that it might be lacking in a large dynamic range. I didn't see any full on or nearly full on whites. Such as in a typical movie scene, there might be a window in the background with bright out doors showing through, or during inside night scenes there might be a desk lamp on with a very bright spot around the bulb, or someone might be wearing a white shirt, etc. This is all just idle speculation. I don't really know why your xbox triggers such noticeable dimming.

I really wish Sony would provide the option of turning the auto dimming completely off, but I'm under the impression that that is the way it used to be on older tvs and they forced autodimming on everyone because people complained about "clouding" or "flashlight" effects or some such thing that was mainly visible on a totally black screen.

Sigh.
post #97 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzig View Post

Is that with ACE on or off? Brightness at 45 sounds standard. I did find some movies of the dashboard in action. It is very colorful and pretty.

All I can guess is that it might be lacking in a large dynamic range. I didn't see any full on or nearly full on whites. Such as in a typical movie scene, there might be a window in the background with bright out doors showing through, or during inside night scenes there might be a desk lamp on with a very bright spot around the bulb, or someone might be wearing a white shirt, etc. This is all just idle speculation. I don't really know why your xbox triggers such noticeable dimming.

I really wish Sony would provide the option of turning the auto dimming completely off, but I'm under the impression that that is the way it used to be on older tvs and they forced autodimming on everyone because people complained about "clouding" or "flashlight" effects or some such thing that was mainly visible on a totally black screen.

Sigh.

Yeah,i was talking about with ACE on. It just dims each time i switch the blade (which changes to a new color). Anyway I guess ill just leave it on. I think it dims down the backlight for everything but for dark scenes it darkens it a little bit more and thats why we only notice that slight dimming on dark scenes but compared to having it OFF even on brighter scenes I notice it looks slightly dimmer. Do you think overall leaving it on creates a nicer picture with more pop because of the added contrast?
post #98 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper2847 View Post

Do you think overall leaving it on creates a nicer picture with more pop because of the added contrast?

No, I don't, but I guess it depends on how you define "pop". To me a particular scene can have "pop" with excellent contrast, vivid, accurate colors and sharpness. With ACE there isn't more contrast in any one scene, there is just more contrast between a light scene and a dark scene. Which would be fine if the backlight was instantaneously changed with the darker scene. But there seems to be a bit of a delay after a dark scene appears to when the light dims, and that artifact is visible and distracting to me. I do not see a delay, however, when the scene goes back to bright.

I prefer the setting off, except on my dvr input, which has lower video levels and causes a lot of auto dimming, so I use ACE low there to minimize it. When I get a chance I'll compare it to ACE high and see which is less noticeable to me.
post #99 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzig View Post

No, I don't, but I guess it depends on how you define "pop". To me a particular scene can have "pop" with excellent contrast, vivid, accurate colors and sharpness. With ACE there isn't more contrast in any one scene, there is just more contrast between a light scene and a dark scene. Which would be fine if the backlight was instantaneously changed with the darker scene. But there seems to be a bit of a delay after a dark scene appears to when the light dims, and that artifact is visible and distracting to me. I do not see a delay, however, when the scene goes back to bright.

I prefer the setting off, except on my dvr input, which has lower video levels and causes a lot of auto dimming, so I use ACE low there to minimize it. When I get a chance I'll compare it to ACE high and see which is less noticeable to me.


Alright,so im just going to leave it off. To be honest with this new 2.00 update the black levels have been greatly improved and to me it seems that even with ace off the blacks look deeper now than they did on stock FW with ACE on low or medium. I think setting it on high just makes the backlight dim down more then having it on low. I also notice that on bright scenes the overall picture is still a little darker than turning it off. Try it out,maybe im seeing things, who knows?
post #100 of 357
I just tried the CNET settings they used in a dark room for the xbr6 which is similiar to the Z and they work pretty good on my PS3 watching a dvd and Bluray.

Below you'll find the settings we found best for viewing the Sony KDL-52XBR6 in a completely dark room via the HDMI input with a 1080p, film-based source. Your settings may vary depending on source, room conditions, and personal preference. Check out the Picture settings and calibration FAQ for more information.

Picture menu:
Picture Mode: Cinema
Backlight: 2
Picture: 90
Brightness: 51
Color: 54
Hue: 0
Color Temperature: Warm2
Sharpness: 5
Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Off


Advanced Settings menu:
Black Corrector: Off
Advanced C.E.: Off
Gamma: Low
Clear White: Off
Color Space: Standard
Live Color: Off (grayed out)


White Balance menu:
R-Gain: -3
G-Gain: -4
B-Gain: -1
R-Bias: -2
G-Bias: 0
B-Bias: 0


Motion Enhancer: Off
CineMotion: Auto 1
Game Mode: Off
Video/Photo Optimizer: Video


General Setup menu
Power Saver: Off
Light Senor: Off
post #101 of 357
It is confirmed, the 200 firmware update its more brightness than original firmware

With original firmware I had 265 Y at 100 IRE, now after update I have 270 Y at 100 IRE at same settings. And it's easier to calibrate now. I guess gray scale is better in the new firmware. I'm glad I updated.

My setting

Picture menu:
Picture Mode: Custom
Backlight: 5
Picture: 86
Brightness: 52
Color: 57
Hue: 0
Color Temperature: Neutral
Sharpness: 10
Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Low


Advanced Settings menu:
Black Corrector: Off
Advanced C.E.: Off
Gamma: Off
Clear White: Off
Color Space: Standard
Live Color: Off (grayed out)


White Balance menu:
R-Gain: 0
G-Gain: -8
B-Gain: -14
R-Bias: 0
G-Bias: 2
B-Bias: -5


Motion Enhancer: Standard
CineMotion: Auto 2
Game Mode: Off
Video/Photo Optimizer: Video


General Setup menu
Power Saver: Off
Light Sensor: Off
post #102 of 357
My settings at WIDE


Picture menu:
Picture Mode: Custom
Backlight: 5
Picture: 86
Brightness: 53
Color: 57
Hue: 0
Color Temperature: Neutral
Sharpness: 10
Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Low


Advanced Settings menu:
Black Corrector: Off
Advanced C.E.: Off
Gamma: Off
Clear White: Off
Color Space: Wide
Live Color: Off


White Balance menu:
R-Gain: 0
G-Gain: -7
B-Gain: -13
R-Bias: 0
G-Bias: 3
B-Bias: -7


Motion Enhancer: Standard
CineMotion: Auto 2
Game Mode: Off
Video/Photo Optimizer: Video


General Setup menu
Power Saver: Off
Light Sensor: Off
post #103 of 357
both these settings are good I have tried both and they look fine.
post #104 of 357
i'm going with ps3 gaming / blu-ray viewing. Anyone have a good calibration?
post #105 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanEyoon View Post

i'm going with ps3 gaming / blu-ray viewing. Anyone have a good calibration?

Check out some of the previous posts most are very good for what you want.
post #106 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by vtec2nr View Post

WOuld be nice to see the settings that someone gets with the SpyderTV. I should have just paid to get mine calibrated when I bought it.

Is this SpyderTV expensive? Is it easy to use? Where do I go to buy it? Thanks.
post #107 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal1981 View Post

Each input will retain its own individual settings, a very nice feature.

How do you calibrate the TV for cable broadcasting? Cable does not offer any patterns to calibrate the TV.
post #108 of 357
Was this with your i1? Did you hook it up to a computer and use i1match, or some other software?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ibre34 View Post

My settings at WIDE


Picture menu:
Picture Mode: Custom
Backlight: 5
Picture: 86
Brightness: 53
Color: 57
Hue: 0
Color Temperature: Neutral
Sharpness: 10
Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Low


Advanced Settings menu:
Black Corrector: Off
Advanced C.E.: Off
Gamma: Off
Clear White: Off
Color Space: Wide
Live Color: Off


White Balance menu:
R-Gain: 0
G-Gain: -7
B-Gain: -13
R-Bias: 0
G-Bias: 3
B-Bias: -7


Motion Enhancer: Standard
CineMotion: Auto 2
Game Mode: Off
Video/Photo Optimizer: Video


General Setup menu
Power Saver: Off
Light Sensor: Off
post #109 of 357
I used ColorHCFR free software
post #110 of 357
When I bought my 46Z at BB, they were offering a professional calibration service for $250 (was going up to $300 in a week, so I bought it to lock in the lower price). The in-store demo was impressive. They had two identical tvs on display, both with user available settings set the same, but each TV looked completely different. They explained that they go into the service menu and adjust the white balance and do other "magic". I was wondering if anyone has used this service. I am not scheduled to have them come out until 12/22 (they say to give the set several weeks to "settle in".

They also said that if I am unhappy with the result, they will come out at no extra cost and reset the set to how it was before their adjustment. So...is this worth the money? Between now and the 22nd, I'll be trying out different calibration settings provided on this thread, and if I find one that completely satisfies me, I'll cancel and save the $250. SOOOOO....anyone used one of the professional calibration services, or maybe specifically the one offered at BB?

I've cross-posted this on the owner's thread as I haven't seen anything yet on professional calibration and think it is something worth getting a thread started on. Hope I haven't overstepped.
post #111 of 357
For those of you who set your color temperature to Neutral, don't you find it much too blue/cool? Surely you didn't use any calibration DVD that ended up recommending Neutral? I can't believe there is that much variation in the sets where some experts recommend WARM2 (or WARM1) and Neutral is recommended in this thread. Just curious.
post #112 of 357
ibre34, your settings from post #101, was that in a well lit room or? Also did you use a calibration disc for it? Thanks and hope to hear from you soon. Anymore calibrations fellas =)
post #113 of 357
It was in a dark room using a colorimeter and a calibration disc
post #114 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibre34 View Post

I'll try to calibrate today using Warm 1 and Warm 2 settings

I'll post my results


Just curious if you ever had a chance to do this?
post #115 of 357
I tried but my results weren´t too good... too much red in my opinion so I prefer Neutral

I´ll try again some day, may be I´ll be lucky
post #116 of 357
Anyone do any new/updated calibration after the latest 202r update?
post #117 of 357
Are blacks crushed on the ps3 with the ps3 set to RGB full ?
post #118 of 357
Any calibration settings for sound?
post #119 of 357
I tried calibrating using the ISF Monster calibration disc, but it doesn't address a lot of the settings on the sony. I find myself gravitating to the vivid mode. What are the preset modes trying to accomplish? What is the best way to calibrate these without using a professional?
post #120 of 357
Here are the settings I really like for all environments. My main viewing is Blu Ray through PS3 and 360 and PS3 games.

PS3 settings RGB Limited, Cross Color Reduc On, Y PB/cb/cr Super White on. Blu Ray Automatic.


Picture menu:
Picture Mode: Custom
Backlight: 8
Picture: 85
Brightness: 52
Color: 65
Hue: 0
Color Temperature: Neutral
Sharpness: 10
Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Off


Advanced Settings menu:
Black Corrector: High
Advanced C.E.: Off
Gamma: Off
Clear White: Off
Color Space: Wide
Live Color: Off


White Balance menu:
R-Gain: 0
G-Gain: -7
B-Gain: -13
R-Bias: 0
G-Bias: 3
B-Bias: -7


Motion Enhancer: High
CineMotion: Auto 2
Game Mode: Off
Video/Photo Optimizer: Video


General Setup menu
Power Saver: Off
Light Sensor: Off

Very close to what has been previously posted but with more Pop. I like these settings in all environments.
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