The Official Panasonic DMP-BD50 Owner's Thread - Page 2

Originally Posted by JonStatt

I want to echo another poster above that the analogue outputs seem to be very good on the BD50.

I have also compared DD/DTS via SPDIF vs 5.1 analogue outputs lossless. With A/B switching after normalising the volume levels, there is a significant and obvious difference.

I would love to know what DACs are being used. I also have a Sony S500 which has Burr Browns with similar performance to the S1. With that player the difference between analogue outputs and DD/DTS via SPDIF were not as significant. So now I am really curious what is in the Panasonic...but I am not brave enough to open mine up to find out.

The Lexicon MC-12 fortunately allows bass management, room EQ and time delays via its analogue inputs, albeit at the expense of an additional ADC process (near transparent though). But nevertheless I am comparing DD optimally connected via a digital link, vs lossless by a questionable link (the 5.1 analogues). The fact the difference is still so prevalent particularly in dynamics and fullness (e.g. opposite of thin sounding), is a testament to the quality of components used in the panasonic.

I must say, I am pleasantly surprised.

Jonathan

Originally Posted by JonStatt

I want to echo another poster above that the analogue outputs seem to be very good on the BD50.

I have also compared DD/DTS via SPDIF vs 5.1 analogue outputs lossless. With A/B switching after normalising the volume levels, there is a significant and obvious difference.

I would love to know what DACs are being used. I also have a Sony S500 which has Burr Browns with similar performance to the S1. With that player the difference between analogue outputs and DD/DTS via SPDIF were not as significant. So now I am really curious what is in the Panasonic...but I am not brave enough to open mine up to find out.

The Lexicon MC-12 fortunately allows bass management, room EQ and time delays via its analogue inputs, albeit at the expense of an additional ADC process (near transparent though). But nevertheless I am comparing DD optimally connected via a digital link, vs lossless by a questionable link (the 5.1 analogues). The fact the difference is still so prevalent particularly in dynamics and fullness (e.g. opposite of thin sounding), is a testament to the quality of components used in the panasonic.

I must say, I am pleasantly surprised.

Jonathan

Originally Posted by EWL5

Unless I am misunderstanding, you are comparing lossy tracks through SPDIF against lossless tracks through the analog outs. That's about as fair as bringing a gun to a knife fight.

Originally Posted by Frank Derks

BD30 uses a PCM1680. (burr brown)

I suspect the 50 uses the same digital board with extra chips for the network connector and functions. (Unused connector and chip locations are on the BD30 mainboard)

Can be more sure when someone opens up the 50 and posts a picture.

Be brave, nothing can happen if you remove the cover.

Originally Posted by JonStatt

I want to echo another poster above that the analogue outputs seem to be very good on the BD50.

I have also compared DD/DTS via SPDIF vs 5.1 analogue outputs lossless. With A/B switching after normalising the volume levels, there is a significant and obvious difference.

Originally Posted by JonStatt

You are not misunderstanding, but I do think you are missing my point.

Firstly by comparing SPDIF against the analogue outputs, we can verify that the BD50 is absolutely and definitely outputting lossless through its analogue outputs. I am sure you have seen lots of discussion where people are questioning if their blu-ray is decoding lossless through the analogues, because they can't hear the expected large difference.

Secondly, the DACs can be a letdown and the gains of lossless can be lost. As I mentioned in my post, the Sony S500 had far less distinction between lossless analogues vs lossy SPDIF. THis indicates the BD50 is doing a better job.

Originally Posted by stefanpaulmayer

may I ask which settings you use?

as far as I understand, you can chose 2 settings:

1) bitstream
2) PCM

1) sends the new formats via bitstream to the receiver over HDMI. over SPDIF you get the dolby or DTS core track.
2) PCM - the player internally decodes the losless tracks in PCM and sends it as PCM via HDMI to the receiver. over SPDIF you only get PCM 2.0 with this option.

what I now would like to know - which sound does one get over the 5.1 analogue output in cases of 1) and 2)? by chosing 1), the player outputs trueHD als trueHD and DTS-MA as DTS-MA. however - does it really decode trueHD as trueHD for the analogue outputs or does the BD50 use the core track, when chosing "bitstream"?

Originally Posted by stefanpaulmayer

may I ask which settings you use?

as far as I understand, you can chose 2 settings:

1) bitstream
2) PCM

Originally Posted by JonStatt

When Secondary Audio is on it locks everything to PCM and you only get 2 channel out of the SPDIF.

Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau

Keep in mind that we probably don't have solid confirmation yet as to whether or not the BD50 has the "5dB low LFE" bug either when decoding the lossless tracks for the analog outputs or when decoding the lossless tracks for HDMI LPCM output.

This too could make the "decoded for analog" audio sound worse even though decoding of the lossless track is actually happening.
--Bob

Originally Posted by quad user

I do not believe this is correct. I have Secondary Audio On and when I switch to SPDIF I get 5.1 DD or DTS out of all speakers.

Originally Posted by stefanpaulmayer

that's interesting. I have to re-check. however, you can definetely also set dolby/trueHD/DTS/DTS-HD to PCM over the menu. what I did a couple of days ago was an A/B comparision of the 5.1 analogue outputs with the SPDIF output of my HD DVD-player HD-EP10. as software I used the DTS demo and dolby demo blu-rays and HD DVDs (I have both in both versions), so I had absolutely identical source material - and the HD-EP10 sounded better, although trueHD and DTS-HD were only output in their core version over the EP10. that made my believe that the BD50 does not output losless over its 5.1 analogue outputs

Originally Posted by stefanpaulmayer

I than again did the comparision with the HD DVD and the dolby demo HD DVD and blu-ray. this time, the HD DVD-player didn't sound that much better. however, the BD50 didn't sound much better either, although it should because it has trueHD decoders...

Originally Posted by EWL5

Doesn't your HD DVD player have a TrueHD decoder as well? I thought that was part of the bare minimum decoding spec that all HD DVD players had.

Originally Posted by stefanpaulmayer

I have now set the BD50 to bitstream. I than did an A/B comparision over the 5.1 analogue output and digital optical. the 5.1 analogue sounded much better with "MIB", with "Rambo" the difference was not that obvious

I than again did the comparision with the HD DVD and the dolby demo HD DVD and blu-ray. this time, the HD DVD-player didn't sound that much better. however, the BD50 didn't sound much better either, although it should because it has trueHD decoders...

Originally Posted by JonStatt

One slightl point is that the parallel DD track on Blu-rays is 480kbps.

Originally Posted by Tim Sly

Wouldn't the BD50 output Dobly Digital Plus through SPDIF? And therefore you wouldn't notice as much difference over the 5.1 analogs? Not sure.

Originally Posted by JonStatt

I don't believe so, because I used HD Basics Blu-ray and measured the test tones and the LFE was at the same level as the main channels over analogues.

Originally Posted by Jon Spackman

You need to remember that the LFE bug only affected HDMI audio, levels are fine for 5.1 output (BD30) or 7.1 outputs (BD10/A). Over analog out you will have proper levels even if the LFE is -5db on HDMI audio output.

Originally Posted by JWhip

This is correct. I have never had a problem with LFE on my 10AK. Bass is excellent as it is on the BD50 as well, through the analog outputs. I do not use HDMI for audio. Panasonic has done an excellent job on the analogue outs on both units, although dropping 7.1 on the BD 50 is a bit of a disappointment.