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The Official Sony BDP-S350 Owners Thread - Page 15

post #421 of 6745
Does anyone know if the BD-S350 can output both HDMI and s-video/composite simultaneously.

I need to run the HDMI to the 1080p TV and the s-video/composite to a crappy monitor at the same time.

From reading about, I know most Blue-Ray players do this, but before I go out and buy one I need to be certain., and I'd like to get the 350.

Thanks mates.
post #422 of 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_Fig View Post

Does anyone know if the BD-S350 can output both HDMI and s-video/composite simultaneously.

I need to run the HDMI to the 1080p TV and the s-video/composite to a crappy monitor at the same time.

From reading about, I know most Blue-Ray players do this, but before I go out and buy one I need to be certain., and I'd like to get the 350.

Thanks mates.

I've answered this question twice in the past few pages
post #423 of 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan2 View Post

I've answered this question twice in the past few pages

Damnit I missed it, thx Allan.
Sorry 'bout the repost.

BTW.

I want to plug my XBR4 onto the HDMI on the BDP-S350 and at the same time have composite going out to a crappy monitor.

EDIT:______________________________________________

I saw that you could not set the player to 1080p or AUTO when connecting both HDMI and composite/s-video simultaneously,

does that mean that I cannot get full 1080p/24 image quality on my XBR4 if I want to get HDMI and composite video simultaneously? and are hence limited to 1080i?
-
-
post #424 of 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Has anyone noticed any TrueHD audio dropouts or low LFE on PCM tracks on the 350?

I'm also interested if there is any evidence of audio dropouts bitstreaming the TrueHD track (or any track).

This issue has plagued the Panny BD30 (although a firmware update released today may resolve that issue).

Thanks.
post #425 of 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_Fig View Post


does that mean that I cannot get full 1080p/24 image quality on my XBR4 if I want to get HDMI and composite video simultaneously? and are hence limited to 1080i?
-
-

According to both the manual and my own experience, yes - that's correct.
post #426 of 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan2 View Post

According to both the manual and my own experience, yes - that's correct.

Damn, such a nice BD player, but that makes the S350 useless for what I need it

Looking at the manual for the BDP-S300 pg.46,
it seems like that one
DID do 1080/24p
simultaneously with composite/s-video

As opposed to the BDP-S350 who's manual says it doesn't pg. 61


can someone confirm this on BDP-S300?
post #427 of 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_Fig View Post

Damn, such a nice BD player, but that makes the S350 useless for what I need it

I guess my taste is not that discriminating. I'm not sure I could tell the difference between 1080p and 1080i. The picture quality at 1080i is just fine for me
post #428 of 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by rp683 View Post

I just got mine... So far very happy with build quality, nice fan, very quiet. I love the PS3 style menus, there are a lot of settings which is cool.

I didn't experience any audio dropouts like I did with the P1500 with the same movie. I only had audio dropouts with the P1500 when I was bitstreaming DTS-HD MA, the Samsung is going back. My receiver is the Sony STR-DA5300ES connected with all HDMI.

By the way, I had a Lexar thumb which didn't initially fit into the USB slot in the back so I snapped off the red plastic case of the thumb drive and it fits no problem, just a temporary fix for now.

The audio quality was flawless and awesome. The picture quality was hard for me to tell, I was watching Return of the Spartans which looks kind if grainy. The picture quality was very nice overall, just a little grainy at times. By the way, the Samsung has great picture quality, it could be due to the fact that I saw more movies on it so the nice picture quality stuck in my mind. I'm sure the Sony has a great picture as well, I'll have to rent some other movies. Also, I watched an SD rented movie last night, in my opinion, the up conversion was very well done, I actually forgot it was a SD movie, I even hit the pop-up menu on the remote until I realized it was SD disc!

So the Sony S350 does have a cooling fan? I swore I remember reading that it was fanless.
post #429 of 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan2 View Post

I guess my taste is not that discriminating. I'm not sure I could tell the difference between 1080p and 1080i. The picture quality at 1080i is just fine for me

Yeah I might get it and see if I do notice the difference. Because frankly for that price range I doubt I'll find any other Blue Ray player with all those features.

I just slightly feel like I'm wasting the features on my XBR if I'm not using the full 1080/24p.
post #430 of 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_Fig View Post

Yeah I might get it and see if I do notice the difference. Because frankly for that price range I doubt I'll find any other Blue Ray player with all those features.

I just slightly feel like I'm wasting the features on my XBR if I'm not using the full 1080/24p.

Like many people in this forum, I tend to go for the newest gadgets with the most features. More often than not I don't use most of the features (or even remember they exist), but I've got 'em . Fact is, I'm very pleased with this player (and I'm connected to a Sony 40V2500 which also can do 1080p).
post #431 of 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerm357 View Post

So the Sony S350 does have a cooling fan? I swore I remember reading that it was fanless.

Maybe you are thinking about the Sammy 1500 player....no fan on that unit.
post #432 of 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD View Post

It may be time to dump my PS3 for the S350.

That's what I did. My son is happy as heck getting a free PS3. And after four movies on the 350, I'm happy to have obliged.
post #433 of 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjosevilla View Post

Is this a limitation of the BD player, the receiver, or is this just how the technology work?

I find it a rather weird technology issue that I suspect BDA may have wished was handled a different way. One big reason advantage that both hd DVD formats touted as a reason to move away from SDM was the ability to run applications that used secondary audio - a definite differentiator vs. SD DVD. In order to do that the player has to mix the secondary and primary audio based on selections the user makes on the player. The user could just select PIP or might select a commentary track that comes over the Internet - that's why the player has to do the mixing.

OTOH, people are very used to bitstreaming audio and having their receiver decode it. That is kind of the default mindset and I suspect a major reason the spec allowed for this.

The weirdness is that if you choose to use bitstream, you have negated the use of secondary audio - a big selling point of HD vs. SD DVD. In order to get this lower level of functionality you also have to have a newer receiver (i.e. spend more money) to get the version of HDMI that supports bitstreaming the new lossless format.

If the specification had just moved away from bitstreaming altogether and did the decoding in the player, all receivers that support HDMI 1.1 & 1.2 would still work. Yes, the player cost might have increased marginally (from the cost of the additional codec's) but at least your old receiver worked with all BD profiles.

To make matters worse, some players decode all, some none and some either (but not both) of the lossless audio formats, indicating a true "rocket scientist" is needed to configure the setup correctly. I know there are reasons some prefer but it seems to me the spec is too complicated and it added to the cost which of course, slows down mass adoption.
post #434 of 6745
Seems to me the ultimate solution would be to give the players the ability to bitstream multiple streams and have the receiver decode and combine them.
post #435 of 6745
I just watched Batman Begins. My wife and i have never been fans of the whole Batman thing but this movie was awesome. I know my amp does not do Dolby Tru-HD. But i selected it on the DVD menu to see watch would happen. My amp was set to Dolby pro-logic II MV. The sound got much lound and it did sound much better. When the pop up windows during the commentary came up i could not here the man in the window speaking. I think I was bit streaming?

The picture was also great and I'm only at 720p.

I think I'm going to be renting more movies I really trying hard not to buy movies as times are tough with gas prices and all.

Can anyone speak to how they feel about Net-flix. My main thing is I want to be able to get a movie on release day. If it is in your que will they get it to you quickly? Also how is their selection of BD titles?
post #436 of 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawgdaes View Post

I just watched Batman Begins. My wife and i have never been fans of the whole Batman thing but this movie was awesome. I know my amp does not do Dolby Tru-HD. But i selected it on the DVD menu to see watch would happen. My amp was set to Dolby pro-logic II MV. The sound got much lound and it did sound much better. When the pop up windows during the commentary came up i could not here the man in the window speaking. I think I was bit streaming?

The picture was also great and I'm only at 720p.

I think I'm going to be renting more movies I really trying hard not to buy movies as times are tough with gas prices and all.

Can anyone speak to how they feel about Net-flix. My main thing is I want to be able to get a movie on release day. If it is in your que will they get it to you quickly? Also how is their selection of BD titles?

1. If you cannot do Tru-HD...your player probably sent Dolby D or EX to your receiver and PLIIx did the rest of the work.

2. I think your audio probs. on your PIP session revolve around the lack of your player not being a BD live (2.0) player...I could be wrong though.

3. I LOVE netflix and get next day delivery ALWAYS...BUT....getting the latest release sent on release day is a total crap shoot. You would have to have a disc coming back to them on Monday, which is very hard as they do not operate on the weekend, and then it is just luck. If you do not get it sent out on release day, you will have an overall tough time getting it very soon in my opinion, as it will probably be labeled in your queue as "short or long wait" Overall, it is a great value for Blu Ray discs and usually get my very new release movies in a week or so which is fine because I usually have enough in my queue to keep my satisfied...
post #437 of 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by eganov View Post

If the specification had just moved away from bitstreaming altogether and did the decoding in the player, all receivers that support HDMI 1.1 & 1.2 would still work. Yes, the player cost might have increased marginally (from the cost of the additional codec's) but at least your old receiver worked with all BD profiles.

I agree that it is indeed confusing.. however, if the player is properly designed, it should accomplish the decode task just as well as an avr.. the spec and design did move away from bit streaming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellerbrewing View Post

Seems to me the ultimate solution would be to give the players the ability to bitstream multiple streams and have the receiver decode and combine them.

And how exactly would the receiver know which track you wanted to listen to?
post #438 of 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahicks View Post

I LOVE netflix and get next day delivery ALWAYS...BUT....getting the latest release sent on release day is a total crap shoot. You would have to have a disc coming back to them on Monday, which is very hard as they do not operate on the weekend, and then it is just luck. If you do not get it sent out on release day, you will have an overall tough time getting it very soon in my opinion, as it will probably be labeled in your queue as "short or long wait" Overall, it is a great value for Blu Ray discs and usually get my very new release movies in a week or so which is fine because I usually have enough in my queue to keep my satisfied...

+1
post #439 of 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by eganov View Post


The weirdness is that if you choose to use bitstream, you have negated the use of secondary audio - a big selling point of HD vs. SD DVD. In order to get this lower level of functionality you also have to have a newer receiver (i.e. spend more money) to get the version of HDMI that supports bitstreaming the new lossless format.

If the specification had just moved away from bitstreaming altogether and did the decoding in the player, all receivers that support HDMI 1.1 & 1.2 would still work. Yes, the player cost might have increased marginally (from the cost of the additional codec's) but at least your old receiver worked with all BD profiles.

To make matters worse, some players decode all, some none and some either (but not both) of the lossless audio formats, indicating a true "rocket scientist" is needed to configure the setup correctly. I know there are reasons some prefer but it seems to me the spec is too complicated and it added to the cost which of course, slows down mass adoption.

So it would be best to get a BD player that can stream and decode all codecs like the S550 or the BD50 if one want to take advantage of 2ndary audio even if you have a decoding receiver.
post #440 of 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by eganov View Post

I find it a rather weird technology issue that I suspect BDA may have wished was handled a different way. One big reason advantage that both hd DVD formats touted as a reason to move away from SDM was the ability to run applications that used secondary audio - a definite differentiator vs. SD DVD. In order to do that the player has to mix the secondary and primary audio based on selections the user makes on the player. The user could just select PIP or might select a commentary track that comes over the Internet - that's why the player has to do the mixing.

OTOH, people are very used to bitstreaming audio and having their receiver decode it. That is kind of the default mindset and I suspect a major reason the spec allowed for this.

The weirdness is that if you choose to use bitstream, you have negated the use of secondary audio - a big selling point of HD vs. SD DVD. In order to get this lower level of functionality you also have to have a newer receiver (i.e. spend more money) to get the version of HDMI that supports bitstreaming the new lossless format.

If the specification had just moved away from bitstreaming altogether and did the decoding in the player, all receivers that support HDMI 1.1 & 1.2 would still work. Yes, the player cost might have increased marginally (from the cost of the additional codec's) but at least your old receiver worked with all BD profiles.

To make matters worse, some players decode all, some none and some either (but not both) of the lossless audio formats, indicating a true "rocket scientist" is needed to configure the setup correctly. I know there are reasons some prefer but it seems to me the spec is too complicated and it added to the cost which of course, slows down mass adoption.

Great summary.

For this reason, I expect that the "default" Blu-ray configuration will become "decode all/stream LPCM through HDMI" so that the decoding will be done on board the player where it can be mixed. As chip prices fall, this will become easy.

On the other hand, I expect that "multi-channel analog outs" will be reserved for more expensive devices. These are innately expensive, owing to the need for D/A conversion. The need for these will also evaporate as everyone goes to HDMI receivers and TV's. So, these analog outs will become very rare within a few years.
post #441 of 6745
Well, I'm probably the first person to return a 350, and was very disappointed to have to do so

I own an S300, and have been completely satisfied with the picture quality. It loads very slowly, but has played all discs flawlessly. Picked up the 350 at SonyStyle on Friday because I wanted to be able to bitstream HD audio codecs to my Yamaha RX-V663, and to experience shorter load times and better handling of Java features.

At first I was thrilled with the S350. Loads discs VERY quickly, player menu navigation quick and easy, the Quick Start feature allows the player to power up in about 7 seconds, and audio bitstreaming was flawless on every disc I tried.

The problem? Color quality. I noticed that on the first few discs I auditioned, skin tones leaned toward yellow. It was subtle, and I attributed this to the films themselves, until I realized the yellow push was consistently present on every disc I tried. I might not have even noticed it if I hadn't viewed many of these discs on the S300. Checked the calibration for the HDMI input using the Blu-ray DVE, which required no changes in settings (Samsung 61" DLP). Tried component input with similar results. Tried every color output variation from the 350 setup menu.

Specific examples: "The Ruins" Blu-ray -- scene where they're standing in front of the tent (sorry, this was rented, so I don't have chapter info). The tent's color is an unnatural bright neon yellow. At the beginning of the film, when characters are bathed in sunlight, there's a strong yellow cast to skin tones; this is partly intentional, but read on...

Another example: The entire Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds Live at Radio City Disc. I recalled this having pristine picture quality on the S300. On the 350 it was also sharp and vivid, but the yellow cast to skin tones was present throughout, and in shots where the lighting is intentionally yellow due to stage lighting, it was far too yellow.

So I hooked up the 300 again and played some of the same discs. It wasn't my imagination. The color was flawless on the 300. Skin tones again appeared natural. Yellows were accurate again. The tent in The Ruins was no longer neon yellow, and sunbathers had natural sunlit skin tones. Dave Matthews no longer looked jaundiced.

The SonyStyle store was very gracious in accepting the return, suggested I had a bad unit, and offered to let me try another. I watched their display model, connected to a 46" Sony LCD, and could not detect the yellow issue. Didn't have time to have them swap my player with the display model to check it out with their monitor. Rather than go trough this again, I opted for a refund.

Again, the issue was fairly subtle but definitely noticeable, and would have driven me crazy over the long term. I certainly may have gotten a bad unit, or maybe it's just not the right player for my Samsung DLP. I might try another 350 in about a month from a different batch at a different retailer.

Any other owners notice the problem?
post #442 of 6745
It seems my account at sonystyle is locked and no one at customer service wants to (can) help. Has anyone else had issues with ordering from sony?
post #443 of 6745
Anyone here anything from ABT? Orders shipping, etc?
post #444 of 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

And how exactly would the receiver know which track you wanted to listen to?

Would it not be possible for the player to stream the extra info if that option is selected? The decoder could detect if the secondary audio stream was present and combine it automatically.
post #445 of 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellerbrewing View Post

Would it not be possible for the player to stream the extra info if that option is selected? The decoder could detect if the secondary audio stream was present and combine it automatically.

There is nothing in the HDMI 1.3 spec that accounts for that, no.

The other issue is that it's not only the raw audio data that needs to be sent, but also the metadata that controls the mixer.
post #446 of 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellerbrewing View Post

Would it not be possible for the player to stream the extra info if that option is selected? The decoder could detect if the secondary audio stream was present and combine it automatically.

It sounds like a solution in search of a problem. The simpler solution is to have the device where the secondary audio is enabled/disabled (aka, the player) handle the decoding and mixing of the streams. The only downside to this is that a little "DTS-HD MA" or "TrueHD" light doesn't appear on your receiver. Why people think that their receivers have "superior" decoding algorithms is beyond me ("this processor does math better than that one").
post #447 of 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellerbrewing View Post

Would it not be possible for the player to stream the extra info if that option is selected? The decoder could detect if the secondary audio stream was present and combine it automatically.

Technically this is probably possible - as most things are. My guess is that all this complexity is just a byproduct of all us being interested in early generation technology.
  • The spec is either open to interpretation or open enough to allow for many different solutions.
  • The market isn't mature enough for vendors to have settled on their standard and enhanced products either.
  • BDA had to create the different profiles to address to jump into the game with HD DVD.
  • Chip makers to release products that have partial support - which is probably why the PS3 can't bitstream.
  • The never ending "requirement" of products having to support not only new technology, but everything that came before it.

Over time all this will work out but in the meantime we have a bunch of overly complex stuff that sometimes doesn't support simple functionality.

I am waiting for the day when some manufacturer releases an A/V receiver that only supports HDMI connectivity. Think of it, all those legacy connectors that you never use (along with the cost) are gone. No more remapping inputs or dealing with those arbitrary CD, DVD, SAT connections on the back of the box. Give me 5-10 HDMI IN's and 2-3 HDMI OUT's. Let me name them in the receiver setup and that's it. Oh yea, and give me a BD decodes everything.
post #448 of 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pugnax555 View Post

It sounds like a solution in search of a problem. The simpler solution is to have the device where the secondary audio is enabled/disabled (aka, the player) handle the decoding and mixing of the streams. The only downside to this is that a little "DTS-HD MA" or "TrueHD" light doesn't appear on your receiver. Why people think that their receivers have "superior" decoding algorithms is beyond me ("this processor does math better than that one").

I agree. I'm not sure what the reason is for the receiver to do the decoding especially when it degrades functionality. Does anyone have a reason WHY bitstreaming to the receiver is needed or desired as opposed to everything being decoded in the player??

BTW, I think this is still relevant to this thread as the S350 only decodes one of the new HD formats on-board.
post #449 of 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by eganov View Post

I agree. I'm not sure what the reason is for the receiver to do the decoding especially when it degrades functionality. Does anyone have a reason WHY bitstreaming to the receiver is needed or desired as opposed to everything being decoded in the player??

Maybe in your universe, every player can decode every format. In mine, that is not the case.
post #450 of 6745
The problem is that you end up paying for decoders that you are not going to use. I see it alot more likely that BR players drop their decoders and create cheaper players than mass market receiver manufacturers dropping theirs and making "dumb" receivers.
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