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Denon DVD-A1UD/DVD-A1UDCI Blu-Ray/DVD/SACD/DVD-A/ Universal Player - Page 120

post #3571 of 3619
Quote:
Originally Posted by mt14942 View Post

Ever since I stopped with the Blockbuster rentals I have had no issues with any type of disc's. I continually am amazed at how good the audio sounds from this player. Plain old cd's sound so good & of course SACD, DVD-A and bluray concerts sound and look terrific. I have been thinking about getting another universal bd player like the Oppo or an even less expensive one for the streaming and smart app capabilities, but I don't expect to be using it for serious music listening. With all the problems that I have had with being in for repair twice I am glad I am still able to enjoy the quality audio and video this player produces. I know others on this forum who have had issues and am curious if the feelings are mutual, that when the player is working it's hard to argue with the quality it produces.

That's really good to hear Mt, mine is going great guns now. The drive has been replaced and I am really happy with the results. No skips or crashes, I guess I was a little cranky with all the crap that was going down at the time of my drive issues. Thank god for warranty.cool.gif

post #3572 of 3619

Does anyone use the laser cleaners on their A1UD, and is it a good idea to use one in this machine. I have always been reserved about using them and are not sure if they would do more harm than good. Not that I need to use one as yet. Are they a good idea?

post #3573 of 3619
The owner's manual of my DBP-A100 in the troubleshooting section in back specifically says to use a BRUSHLESS lens cleaning disc. AFAIK only Maxell makes one and it is very hard to find or order reliably as it seems Maxell has 2 versions of this product in circulation with the SAME Model # BR-LC and item #190054. One version is brushless, the other one (more common and often mis-represented in online product descriptions) has "3 micro-fiber brushes". The "brushless" version will have "patented wind funnel technology" on the package and has 3 holes in the disc to "blow" dirt etc. off the lens. Good luck finding the right one though, it took me a week a local B & M store had the right one. Denon service recently requested I use one before sending my unit in for repair and after finally tracking down the right one, it refused to load in my player !!! LOL
Google "Maxell BR-LC" and you'll find contradictory product descriptions (even Maxell's main website which linked me to Maxell USA when I clicked "buy now" was contradictory) and a range of prices. You'll find some Amazon reviewers complaining they got the wrong product...very confusing. On top of this, the jury still seems to be out on whether or not these discs are really worth using, and according to my research, a Blu-ray optical lens is way more sensitive to brushes on a disc and you can risk doing damage to it using them. DVD and CD players have a different type of lens which is less sensitive to lens cleaners w/brushes. Our universal players have both so I would be very careful about using a lens cleaning disc with brushes (90% of them as far as I can tell). Although some people online "swear by them" I'm very skeptical of their true effectiveness.
post #3574 of 3619
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidbarrickman View Post

The owner's manual of my DBP-A100 in the troubleshooting section in back specifically says to use a BRUSHLESS lens cleaning disc. AFAIK only Maxell makes one and it is very hard to find or order reliably as it seems Maxell has 2 versions of this product in circulation with the SAME Model # BR-LC and item #190054. One version is brushless, the other one (more common and often mis-represented in online product descriptions) has "3 micro-fiber brushes". The "brushless" version will have "patented wind funnel technology" on the package and has 3 holes in the disc to "blow" dirt etc. off the lens. Good luck finding the right one though, it took me a week a local B & M store had the right one. Denon service recently requested I use one before sending my unit in for repair and after finally tracking down the right one, it refused to load in my player !!! LOL
Google "Maxell BR-LC" and you'll find contradictory product descriptions (even Maxell's main website which linked me to Maxell USA when I clicked "buy now" was contradictory) and a range of prices. You'll find some Amazon reviewers complaining they got the wrong product...very confusing. On top of this, the jury still seems to be out on whether or not these discs are really worth using, and according to my research, a Blu-ray optical lens is way more sensitive to brushes on a disc and you can risk doing damage to it using them. DVD and CD players have a different type of lens which is less sensitive to lens cleaners w/brushes. Our universal players have both so I would be very careful about using a lens cleaning disc with brushes (90% of them as far as I can tell). Although some people online "swear by them" I'm very skeptical of their true effectiveness.

Yes well put David sounds logical to me. I have always been weary of these lens cleaning devices and just to add to that, the dvda1ud is a sensitive player in all aspects and I would not like to tamper with things I really don't know much about (which I don't). Don't get me wrong here as I am not looking to try to mess with anything as I was just curious if anyone else was using a particular cleaning disc. I was in at a blue ray retailer today and as I was paying for a disc I was offered a cleaning disc to go with it and declined as I don't want to dabble in fixing something that's not broken anyway. I think I will check my manual as I have not done so yet as a matter of fact I never thought of checking in the manual to begin with. I remember years ago I had a Grundig video player and in them days they had a cleaning video cassette that you put some cleaning liquid onto and one day it went in for repair and as I picked it up to pay for the repair the tech told me there was a heap of oil inside the machine and I could never put my finger on how it got there and later on that week it came to me as to how. It was obviously from that cleaning video I had been using. So I have made some mistakes.smile.gif

post #3575 of 3619
Quote:
Originally Posted by grassy View Post

Them unwanted noises mt, that wasn't you singing along was it?smile.gif
If they were purchased tracks, then I cant see how that would happen, but I have not yet used the player in that sense but I do plan on doing so in the near future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grassy View Post

That's really good to hear Mt, mine is going great guns now. The drive has been replaced and I am really happy with the results. No skips or crashes, I guess I was a little cranky with all the crap that was going down at the time of my drive issues. Thank god for warranty.cool.gif

The added noises sounded like a loud ticking noise or it might have been just stuttering as best as I can recall. I am going to be making another cd and I will check it out again. This time the cd will be a mixture of cd tracks that I downloaded and mp3 files that I bought from Rhapsody. I'll report back as to how it sounds on the A1. Unfortunately when I had mine repaired it was no longer under warranty so it cost me a few $$. I could have almost bought the Oppo 103 for the same price but I like the audio from the A1's analog outs that much that I never really considered getting another player.
post #3576 of 3619
Quote:
Originally Posted by mt14942 View Post



The added noises sounded like a loud ticking noise or it might have been just stuttering as best as I can recall. I am going to be making another cd and I will check it out again. This time the cd will be a mixture of cd tracks that I downloaded and mp3 files that I bought from Rhapsody. I'll report back as to how it sounds on the A1. Unfortunately when I had mine repaired it was no longer under warranty so it cost me a few $$. I could have almost bought the Oppo 103 for the same price but I like the audio from the A1's analog outs that much that I never really considered getting another player.

Yea it would be interesting if you could put your finger on those noises. My player has been really good in that department. I watched Hansel and Gretel last night and the sound was amazing and it played the movie right through without a hitch, so I went to bed very happy. I was tinkering around with the" picture adjust" button on the remote, and got some amazing results with the blacks and whites through my 1080i projector. That's where this players video section really comes into play you notice it more on a "non 1080p" screen and that's where you can really get the value out of this player as it does a lot for the image.

post #3577 of 3619
Quote:
Originally Posted by grassy View Post

Yea it would be interesting if you could put your finger on those noises. My player has been really good in that department. I watched Hansel and Gretel last night and the sound was amazing and it played the movie right through without a hitch, so I went to bed very happy. I was tinkering around with the" picture adjust" button on the remote, and got some amazing results with the blacks and whites through my 1080i projector. That's where this players video section really comes into play you notice it more on a "non 1080p" screen and that's where you can really get the value out of this player as it does a lot for the image.

I had my Pioneer Plasma Elite 151FD which is 1080P capable, professionally calibrated by Jeff Meier with my A1 and he only changed two things with the A1's picture settings which was DNR +1 and Contrast -1 all other settings were left at the default setting. It is hard to believe my display is around 6 years old and still going strong. The only TV that I have seen that has shown me a better picture is the new Sony 4K but I was watching a loop of 4K material at the Magnolia section at Best Buy.
post #3578 of 3619
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidbarrickman View Post

The owner's manual of my DBP-A100 in the troubleshooting section in back specifically says to use a BRUSHLESS lens cleaning disc. AFAIK only Maxell makes one and it is very hard to find or order reliably as it seems Maxell has 2 versions of this product in circulation with the SAME Model # BR-LC and item #190054. One version is brushless, the other one (more common and often mis-represented in online product descriptions) has "3 micro-fiber brushes". The "brushless" version will have "patented wind funnel technology" on the package and has 3 holes in the disc to "blow" dirt etc. off the lens. Good luck finding the right one though, it took me a week a local B & M store had the right one. Denon service recently requested I use one before sending my unit in for repair and after finally tracking down the right one, it refused to load in my player !!! LOL
Google "Maxell BR-LC" and you'll find contradictory product descriptions (even Maxell's main website which linked me to Maxell USA when I clicked "buy now" was contradictory) and a range of prices. You'll find some Amazon reviewers complaining they got the wrong product...very confusing. On top of this, the jury still seems to be out on whether or not these discs are really worth using, and according to my research, a Blu-ray optical lens is way more sensitive to brushes on a disc and you can risk doing damage to it using them. DVD and CD players have a different type of lens which is less sensitive to lens cleaners w/brushes. Our universal players have both so I would be very careful about using a lens cleaning disc with brushes (90% of them as far as I can tell). Although some people online "swear by them" I'm very skeptical of their true effectiveness.

The correct model number for the Maxell wind tunnel is "Model #: BR-Game/ Item #: 190049" as shown on back above barcode.

Picture looks like this, see the 2 holes:

brayclnr.jpg

But then what stops one from putting a 2mm drill to an old CD and achieving same effect?
Edited by bobpaule - 7/12/13 at 5:00am
post #3579 of 3619
Quote:
Originally Posted by mt14942 View Post


The added noises sounded like a loud ticking noise or it might have been just stuttering as best as I can recall. I am going to be making another cd and I will check it out again. This time the cd will be a mixture of cd tracks that I downloaded and mp3 files that I bought from Rhapsody. I'll report back as to how it sounds on the A1. Unfortunately when I had mine repaired it was no longer under warranty so it cost me a few $$. I could have almost bought the Oppo 103 for the same price but I like the audio from the A1's analog outs that much that I never really considered getting another player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grassy View Post

Yea it would be interesting if you could put your finger on those noises. My player has been really good in that department. I watched Hansel and Gretel last night and the sound was amazing and it played the movie right through without a hitch, so I went to bed very happy. I was tinkering around with the" picture adjust" button on the remote, and got some amazing results with the blacks and whites through my 1080i projector. That's where this players video section really comes into play you notice it more on a "non 1080p" screen and that's where you can really get the value out of this player as it does a lot for the image.

I finally got around to making another music mix, a combination of mp3 and cd tracks but this time I used the software that came with my computer to burn the cd instead of Windows Media and when I played it on my A1 it played fine. So I guess it wasn't the A1 being finicky but rather Windows Media that caused the problem.
Edited by mt14942 - 7/13/13 at 7:17am
post #3580 of 3619
Quote:
Originally Posted by mt14942 View Post



I finally got around to making another music mix, a combination of mp3 and cd tracks but this time I used the software that came with my computer to burn the cd instead of Windows Media and when I played it on my A1 it played fine. So I guess it wasn't the A1 being finicky but rather Windows Media that caused the problem.

Well that's good news. I have had that experience with burning movies and didn't know if the problem layed with the codecs or not. But I know it was a trial and error thing for me as you can go through an awful amount of discs trying to get it right. The problem ended up being the programs themselves. I have never put a copied disc into my a1ud,but will be doing similar to you to see what happens. I use iTunes to burn mp3 and never had a problem, but having said that I have never played them back on the a1ud but like I said I plan on doing so. Thanks for posting your results Mt.

post #3581 of 3619
NEW FIRMWARE available.

Was fooling around with settings when I hit update
and it showed me availability, said a prayer and hit
button:) SACDs stereo and MCH play well, only use
it with HDMI off (S-Video for menus).

Must have come out last 3-4 mos.

Gotta run to work will post impressions.
Edited by bobpaule - 7/24/13 at 4:42pm
post #3582 of 3619
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobpaule View Post

FYI new firmware available.

Must have come out last 3-4 mos.

Gotta run to work will post impressions.

Interesting - there was no update in UK for the DVD A1UD but there was one for the AVP. Have no idea what it contained smile.gif
post #3583 of 3619
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobpaule View Post

NEW FIRMWARE available.

Was fooling around with settings when I hit update
and it showed me availability, said a prayer and hit
button:) SACDs stereo and MCH play well, only use
it with HDMI off.

Must have come out last 3-4 mos.

Gotta run to work will post impressions.[/quote

Thanks for that info, I probably should do the update, but I have always been of the, if it ain't broken don't fix it, mindset. I use both the analog connections and the HDMI connections and if it made the A1 a little less finicky with disc's that are not new or in pristine condition, I would do the update.
post #3584 of 3619
question I would be asking did you the hardware upgrade prior to the recent firmware upgrade??
post #3585 of 3619
Quote:
Originally Posted by mystic_sniper28 View Post

question I would be asking did you the hardware upgrade prior to the recent firmware upgrade??

Your comment is a bit of a shocker, but as a parent of 3 lil kids and being on call non-stop I miss out on a lot.

I have two units, the first one a refurb 01/2012 from Denon, so I assume it would have the latest. The second has a much higher serial number so I assume it also has an "updated firmware".

I read there was talk about firmware updates on Denon Eu in 2011, but then someone posted this after their comment was put under scrutiny:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey mo View Post


Sorry for the confusion. I'm talking about the AVP-A1. By the way, the "player" I refer to is the DVD-A1.


EDIT: I meant to post in the AVP-A1 thread. My Bad.[/quote

Edited by bobpaule - 7/22/13 at 6:25pm
post #3586 of 3619
sorry my mistake i was thinking of the processor when i was talking about the upgrade to hardware when i passed comment
post #3587 of 3619
I just pulled out my backup A1UDCI and upgraded it too.

Out of curiosity, the blue AL processing light is never on on my lower serial # player that I use daily,
but it is always on on the backup, no way to change anything in menus either, what I going on?

Thx
post #3588 of 3619
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobpaule View Post

I just pulled out my backup A1UDCI and upgraded it too.

Out of curiosity, the blue AL processing light is never on on my lower serial # player that I use daily,
but it is always on on the backup, no way to change anything in menus either, what I going on?

Thx

I didn't think there was much of an upgrade to the A1 out there, at-least when it comes to audio?
post #3589 of 3619
So with all of the issues reported with the optical drive on the A1 and it's cheaper sibling what do you guys think is going on here? Did Denon simply not perform enough testing prior to shipping or do you think they knew there was an issue and gambled hoping the device would perform problem free for the life of the player or at least make it past the warranty coverage where they could wash their hands of any responsibility? To say I'm pissed at the situation is an understatement and it's a shame that with the A1 being their flagship product and a statement piece they would not man up like Microsoft did with the early Xbox 360's and the red ring issue and just deal with the problem free of charge as a warranty issue even though the warranty period in many cases had long expired.

I absolutely loved my DVD5900. Hell, the thing still works like a charm but I will never purchase another Denon product again and will steer friends away from their products in the future. The whole situation just makes me sick to my stomach given the expense of the player and the cost to replace the drive unit outside of the warranty. Thinking back I was so excited for the player, kept tabs on it's development as info made it's way to the different electronics shows at how amazing it was going to be and put the word into my dealer months before the player came to market to ensure I got it as soon as it became available to buy.
post #3590 of 3619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post

So with all of the issues reported with the optical drive on the A1 and it's cheaper sibling what do you guys think is going on here? Did Denon simply not perform enough testing prior to shipping or do you think they knew there was an issue and gambled hoping the device would perform problem free for the life of the player or at least make it past the warranty coverage where they could wash their hands of any responsibility? To say I'm pissed at the situation is an understatement and it's a shame that with the A1 being their flagship product and a statement piece they would not man up like Microsoft did with the early Xbox 360's and the red ring issue and just deal with the problem free of charge as a warranty issue even though the warranty period in many cases had long expired.

I absolutely loved my DVD5900. Hell, the thing still works like a charm but I will never purchase another Denon product again and will steer friends away from their products in the future. The whole situation just makes me sick to my stomach given the expense of the player and the cost to replace the drive unit outside of the warranty. Thinking back I was so excited for the player, kept tabs on it's development as info made it's way to the different electronics shows at how amazing it was going to be and put the word into my dealer months before the player came to market to ensure I got it as soon as it became available to buy.

This is the lesson I learned and is why I have been waiting this time before jumping in when it comes to getting another universal bd player. I have researched the new Marantz, Cambridge and Oppo players but have yet to pull the trigger.
post #3591 of 3619
Quote:
Originally Posted by mt14942 View Post

I didn't think there was much of an upgrade to the A1 out there, at-least when it comes to audio?

The A1s forte is in the 5 DACs and balanced stereo stage, it bests the Oppo 105 which i briefly had, returned and got a second A1 (funny money) for backup. The truth is the A1 is still a phenomenal balanced stereo and MCH SACD and DVD-A player. I did comparisons with blind testing the kids and 2 guests and all agreed that SACDs and DVD-A processed in the A1 as opposed to DSD and respectively PCM via HDMI from the Oppo sounded better. I am biased to believe SACDs sounded the best, MoFi and Univ. Japan stereo SACDs with the CP-700 preamp a dream.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mt14942 View Post

This is the lesson I learned and is why I have been waiting this time before jumping in when it comes to getting another universal bd player. I have researched the new Marantz, Cambridge and Oppo players but have yet to pull the trigger.

PS3 for me, the A1 I would recommend as a great stereo and MCH SACD player, and DVD-A player for the 80% of discs it will play. I started getting more and more DVD-Audios but many don't play on the A1, so much so that I had to pull the DV-980H from storage and run it, with tiny "Oppo" labels on the non-playable discs. The ones that play sound fantastic. And no,
I cannot say it sounds inferior to the Oppo 105 for this purpose.

I also recently separated the A1 and Oppo from the projector using an Aus VS24AH-P monitor hanging from a Peerless ceiling mount on the side wall. I used a CVID BG-520 HDMI 1x2 splitter and PET0301D Auto-switch allowing me to display titles from both machines while letting the Oppo send the DVD-Audio PCM to the processor. Now i can see ID3 info right where I need it. The monitor has a 170 deg viewing angle, fantastic contrast and black levels with some tweaking.
Edited by bobpaule - 9/7/13 at 4:21pm
post #3592 of 3619
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobpaule View Post

The A1s forte is in the 5 DACs and balanced stereo stage, it bests the Oppo 105 which i briefly had, returned and got a second A1 (funny money) for backup. The truth is the A1 is still a phenomenal balanced stereo and MCH SACD and DVD-A player. I did comparisons with blind testing the kids and 2 guests and all agreed that SACDs and DVD-A processed in the A1 as opposed to DSD and respectively PCM via HDMI from the Oppo sounded better. I am biased to believe SACDs sounded the best, MoFi and Univ. Japan stereo SACDs with the CP-700 preamp a dream.
PS3 for me, the A1 I would recommend as a great stereo and MCH SACD player, and DVD-A player for the 80% of discs it will play. I started getting more and more DVD-Audios but many don't play on the A1, so much so that I had to pull the DV-980H from storage and run it, with tiny "Oppo" labels on the non-playable discs. The ones that play sound fantastic. And no,
I cannot say it sounds inferior to the Oppo 105 for this purpose.

I also recently separated the A1 and Oppo from the projector using an Aus VS24AH-P monitor hanging from a Peerless ceiling mount on the side wall. I used a CVID BG-520 HDMI 1x2 splitter and PET0301D Auto-switch allowing me to display titles from both machines while letting the Oppo send the DVD-Audio PCM to the processor. Now i can see ID3 info right where I need it. The monitor has a 170 deg viewing angle, fantastic contrast and black levels with some tweaking.

I am continually impressed with the A1 for all 2-channel music via balanced analogs into my Classe SSP-800 which is why, like you, I feel no need to replace it with with any of the other high end universal players in spite of it's fickleness. By the way using a digital connection (HDMI or Coax) and using the 800's dacs is also pretty darn good.
Edited by mt14942 - 9/12/13 at 12:34pm
post #3593 of 3619
Quote:
Originally Posted by mt14942 View Post

I am continually impressed with the A1 for all 2-channel music via balanced analogs into my Classe SSP-800 which is why, like you, I feel no need to replace it with with any of the other high end universal players in spite of it's fickleness. By the way using a digital connection (HDMI or Coax) and using the 800's dacs is also pretty darn good.

You get an Oppo BDP-103 as a secondary player and hook it to the second HDMI port on your PJ, to the Classe, you will have everything, 3D and streaming media.

I have AQ King Cobra interconnects, a pretty penny, with 8 single ended and 12 balanced, that is after i recycled the ebay Taiwanese knockoffs (thinner cable, lighter red, and smaller black patterns) for OEMs:)
Edited by bobpaule - 9/25/13 at 4:52pm
post #3594 of 3619
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobpaule View Post

You get an Oppo BDP-103 as a secondary player and hook it to the second HDMI port on your PJ, to the Classe, you will have everything, 3D and streaming media.

I have AQ King Cobra interconnects, a pretty penny, with 8 single ended and 12 balanced, that is after i recycled the ebay Taiwanese knockoffs (thinner cable, lighter red, and smaller black patterns) for OEMs:)

I am using balanced Kimber Hero interconnects for 2-channel and also to my amp from my prepro. They were not cheap but probably in the middle range. I figured since my gear isn't cheap I should use better than entry level cables.
post #3595 of 3619
Any of you A1 owners get the World War Z Blu-ray? If so does it play properly? The movie freezes up for me early on just after they get on the ship and Brad Pitt is being informed he is going to accompany the younger guy on the mission, I can't even fast forward past the spot. The player will allow me to stop and it did allow for the main menu to be brought up but would not let me interact with it. The film plays fine in my PS3.
post #3596 of 3619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post

Any of you A1 owners get the World War Z Blu-ray? If so does it play properly? The movie freezes up for me early on just after they get on the ship and Brad Pitt is being informed he is going to accompany the younger guy on the mission, I can't even fast forward past the spot. The player will allow me to stop and it did allow for the main menu to be brought up but would not let me interact with it. The film plays fine in my PS3.

Hopefully not another example of the players fickleness and it is a disc problem. Since I stopped renting bluray disc's I haven't had any issues, the player has played every disc I have bought, usually about 4 a month. If I wind up getting that bluray I will let you know. In the past I had a number of bluray disc's that I rented that froze up at some point, and they would wind up playing fine on Denon 3800 bluray player.
Edited by mt14942 - 9/29/13 at 7:38am
post #3597 of 3619
A1UDC HDMI output ribbons, service department to ask for $ 800, is also worth repair it?


543.jpg 111k .jpg file
post #3598 of 3619
Quote:
Originally Posted by lzhbts View Post

A1UDC HDMI output ribbons, service department to ask for $ 800, is also worth repair it?


543.jpg 111k .jpg file

Obviously if you are seeing that thru out the bluay disc and not just the opening Denon display you would need to do something. $800.00 is a lot of money. I would probably just keep the player for music and get another bluray player for bluray movies.
post #3599 of 3619
I have hit a new problem with the DVD-A1UD - my first few Blu-ray "Pure Audio" discs from Universal turned up today. I tried all four: Karajan Beethoven 9, Kaufmann Wagner Recital, Dvorak New World, Beethoven Violin Concerto. In each case the discs vibrated quite loudly as the drive attempted to read the disc - it was a very audible buzz! I gave up trying to listen to anything though there was music coming through and all the correct lights lit on the AVP. I tried a few other Blu-rays, audio and video, with no such problem. This is very strange indeed.

Can anyone confirm this effect from any of the new Universal "High Fidelity Pure Audio" issues. Have I got a problem? If so why do no other discs exhibit this? Are Universal pressing something just outside the standard spec? Surely not.

Yes I will try another Blu-ray player asap.

Have now tried the same discs on an Oppo 95 and find the disc stable but the DTS MA track subject to bursts of digital noise, PCM and DD tracks OK.

And another update: the discs play perfectly on a PS3 and one of the recent cheaper Denon players my dealer had. This suggests both my A1UD and the Oppo 95 have a problem. It also hints that there could be a firmware or even a hardware issue - I remain mystified.

Yet another update - some friends found the Universal BDAs played OK but were noisier in the player. I've tried a new 2L BDA and it was perfect. I still think something odd is going on with Universal's issues.

Dave eek.gif
Edited by DJB of Poole - 12/22/13 at 4:10am
post #3600 of 3619
It's possible it's hardware but it could be like you mention, those discs might be slightly out of spec, sort of like DualDisc is. Some players even come with warnings about those.
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