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*Official* Denon AVR 1909/789 Thread - Page 370

post #11071 of 11322
For Zone 2 pre-outs, is the receiver able to downmix HDMI audio to 2-channel stereo?

I can only get Zone 2 audio if I hook up analog cables?

Thanks.
post #11072 of 11322
No, rather Zone 2 audio can only pass via analog source inputs.
post #11073 of 11322
For starters, thanks to Batpig for his very helpful Denon website...answered a lot of questions that the manual didn't make clear. I am currently in the process of upgrading a few components with my HT setup. As it stands, my basic setup for audio is an AVR789, 2 AR Hi-Res tower speakers and a Velodyne sub in main living room and Pinnacle ceiling speakers in several rooms throughout the house (running off Zone 2). Few questions that I could not find an answer for:

1. I am upgrading my TV to a Mits 3D set and I will be using a Cisco cable box (I presume, its Brighthouse). It is my desire to have the ability to watch 3D content on the TV, while also having the ability to listen to the cable audio on the Zone 2 speakers. Assuming I don't upgrade the 789, is the only way I can achieve this to essentially 'stack' the cable signal to one of the sources? By running the HDMI straight to the TV for video signal, run a digital optical input from the cable box to the 789 while also running an analog audio input (to allow for Zone 2)? Or is there a simpler way?

2. I am also in the market to get a 3D BD player. I already have an Xbox 360 and Wii, so naturally I was thinking about getting a PS3 to play 3DBD content. From reading some of the posts is this not a good idea due to some of the FW issues (I haven't checked my build # or FW # as of yet)?

3. (apologize if this isn't correct forum to ask) At some point I might upgrade my entire speaker setup, but I don't plan on an entire revamp it right now due to limited funds. Would my money be better invested in a center channel or surround channels? Or both? I am getting an 840 series Mits that has 'center channel function', but I cannot fathom that the speaker setup in the TV would be remotely as good as a dedicated center channel... but it might be good enough to get by for a while. I don't have the TV yet, so I have no clue whether I can run an audio signal to the 789 from the TV and if the speakers can handle the wattage.

Many thanks!
post #11074 of 11322
1. You are correct, the cable you describe (HDMI to TV, optical + analog to the receiver) is the only way to get 3D video to the display while sending digital audio to the receiver AND giving the receiver an audio signal for Zone 2 (analog).

2. Not necessarily a "bad idea" but the PS3 has a limitation where it can't send 3D video while simultaneously playing HD audio. However, given that you would need to go HDMI straight to the TV with optical to the receiver, it's sort of irrelevant since you won't get hi-rez audio over optical anyway.

3. Center first, then surrounds, but both are important for HT. I agree that a REAL center channel is far preferable to the TV speakers.

You also might want to consider swapping up to a newer model; the 1713 would give you 5.1 channel for main zone + a zone 2 pre-out to feed the whole-house system, and 3D support (reducing the cabling needs) plus lots of new features (networking, on-screen GUI graphics, etc) and improved audio with MultEQ XT. Might be worth it, would probably be a $150-200 incremental cost after selling the old AVR 789 for $150-200ish. You could then get a basic 3D capable BDP instead of a PS3 (I assume you have plenty of games already with the Wii and Xbox!) which would save you money on that side.
post #11075 of 11322
^^
Although the PS3 can pass DTS HD audio with 3D video, what the OP is more likely referring to in item (2) is the "boomy bass" with DD/DTS audio and his inability to get the 789 firmware updated on his own. With having to connect the PS3 HDMI to the TV with optical to the 789, if the "boomy bass" is an issue he would have to pass the DD/DTS as PCM 2.0 to resolve the issue.
post #11076 of 11322
gotcha. The "boomy bass" firmware though isn't really PS3 specific, it happens with any bitstreamed audio, so if he had it he would be experiencing it already with regular Dolby Digital 5.1 tracks from Xbox or cable box etc.
post #11077 of 11322
Agreed, although based on his wording, it's still likely what he's referencing.
post #11078 of 11322
Thanks guys....

Actually question (2) was a little bit of both of your answers. I honestly only stumbled upon the FW issue with the boomy bass after I disconnected my entire system to prepare for the new TV, so I haven't gotten a chance to actually test it...but I'm pretty sure that I do because I always was thinking something was wrong with the sub (I actually had to disconnect it entirely) because I remember several instances where the bass drowned out all the other sounds and it didn't sound 'clean'.

Needless to say, I'm now browsing the "The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ" because my best investment with the extra money on hand sounds like it would probably be a new XX13.
post #11079 of 11322
Need some help guys. All of a sudden, my 1909 just lost sound. Picture is perfect but no sound whatsoever. I did a google search for a similar problem and found that many others have the same issue. On suggestion was to blast air into the earphone plug due to dust built up. No such luck here. I have been so frustrated for the past 3 days. Any other suggestions would be appreciated. Do I just need count this as a loss and buy a new one?
post #11080 of 11322
Try taking an actual headphone plug and plug & unplug it several times.
post #11081 of 11322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

Try taking an actual headphone plug and plug & unplug it several times.
What he said. I would be very surprised if it did not work and I am even more surprised that this has not happened to me yet. I have found/ran into all the other bugs. Doesn't the front panel show different when headphones are connected? I bought a couple pair months ago, but have not had time to enjoy them, but I swear that the front panel changes and says something when you plug them in. I guess I have plugged in a plug or phones every once in a while and that has kept mine clean?
post #11082 of 11322
Quote:
Originally Posted by androgelrx View Post

Need some help guys. All of a sudden, my 1909 just lost sound. Picture is perfect but no sound whatsoever. I did a google search for a similar problem and found that many others have the same issue. On suggestion was to blast air into the earphone plug due to dust built up. No such luck here. I have been so frustrated for the past 3 days. Any other suggestions would be appreciated. Do I just need count this as a loss and buy a new one?

If the front panel display reads the surround mode (eg. DD/DTS) and not something like "H/P", then most likely someone changed the INPUT MODE to something other than "HDMI" or "AUTO".


post #11083 of 11322
Thanks for the help guys. Did the plug in and out method. Got the radio working then change the input mode as above and the sound works again. Wonder how long it'll stay working. Again, appreciate all the help.
post #11084 of 11322
Having a couple of confusing problems with my Denon AVR-789. Hoping you fine folks can help me out.

Problem 1: Zone 2 will not turn off. It is ALWAYS on. No matter what I'm watching, there is sound coming out of my Zone 2 speakers. I have triple-checked the wire connections and have confirmed that the Zone 2 speakers are connected to the proper spot on the Denon. I have tried hitting Zone 2 Power on/off and nothing changes. The little Z2 indicator on the amp itself turns on and off, but the speakers continue to output sound. My Amp Assign is set to 7.1 as I have a full 7.1 speaker setup in my Main Zone. Why won't Zone 2 turn off?!? I have even tried changing the source of the Zone 2 speakers (CD, for example) but there is STILL sound coming out of them when watching Blu-Rays/DVDs, etc. My mind is confused. Help!

Problem 2: I'm currently using a PS3 as my BD/DVD player, connected to HDMI 1 on the Denon. I have the PS3 set to output Linear PCM as I understood that would enable me to get true Dolby TrueHD and DTS HDMA. However, when playing a BD with DTS HDMA 7.1, my Denon shows that there is a 7.1 signal coming IN to the receiver, but it is only outputting in 4.1. Originally I had my PS3 set to Bitstream and couldn't figure out why it was always outputting 7.1 as 5.1, but then read that I had to change the PS3 to output Linear PCM. So I did that. But now my Denon is using even fewer speakers! I'm assuming I've missed a critical configuration setting on the Denon but can't figure it out. Any suggestions?

Thanks!
Tom
post #11085 of 11322
Problem 1 -- Where EXACTLY are your Zone 2 speakers connected? Are they connected to the Surr.Back speaker posts or do you have them fed from the Zone 2 pre-ouots to an external amp? If you have Amp Assign set to 7.1 then the Surr.Back speakers posts will not be Zone 2, but actually output main zone audio. It sounds like that's what's happening here.

Problem 2 -- Have you run Audyssey? Does the receiver "know" that you have a center channel connected? What is it reporting for the surround mode when this happens? And as a test, what happens when you set to bitstream and play a standard 5.1 Dolby Digital track, does it work properly?
post #11086 of 11322
Problem 1: The Zone 2 speakers are connected to the 'Front B' posts. The Main Zone has 7 speakers connected to the 'Front A', Center, Surround and Surr. Back posts. It was my understanding that Zone 2 would play from the 'Front B' posts, but maybe that's where my confusion/problem is.

Problem 2: When the PS3 was set to Bitstream and I played a normal Dolby Digital 5.1 track, I would get normal 5.1 playback. So the problem wasn't necessarily with my Center speaker. I have run the Audyssey config and it performed the proper tests on all 7 Main Zone speakers, in their proper configuration. When I played a DTS HDMA 7.1 track (when PS3 was set to Bitstream) I would get 5.1 playback (not 7.1). I did a bit of research and discovered that the PS3 can only output true Dolby TrueHD and DTS HDMA through Linear PCM. So I changed the PS3 to Linear PCM and tried to play the DTS HDMA 7.1 track again (from the BD of Prometheus) and the output was only four speakers. I think. I need to verify which speakers it was outputting from, but it definitely was NOT outputting in 7.1. Ultimately I want to be able to hear the true DTS HDMA 7.1 track through my 7.1 speakers. I'm sure I must just be missing a setting on the AVR-789.

Thanks a ton for the help and suggestions! Much appreciated. Let me know if the above information sheds any more light.

Tom
post #11087 of 11322
Problem 1: Yep, that's the problem. The Front B posts are NOT the same as Zone 2, they play a mirror image of what your main front speakers ("A") are playing. They cannot play an independent source. If you are running a 7ch setup in Main Zone, your only option for a "true" Zone 2 implementation is to feed an external amp with the Zone 2 pre-outs. Think about it -- you are trying to run NINE speakers and there are only SEVEN amps in the receiver. How can a different source play on those other two "B" speakers?

If you are OK with having the "Zone 2" speakers play the same source as the main zone, then you can leave them as "Speaker B" and turn them on/off with the "Speakers" button on the front of the receiver. However, to implement a "true" Zone 2 then you need 2 more channels of amplification.

Problem 2: I assume you have an older "fat" PS3 then? The newer "slim" models are capable of bitstreaming HD audio.

Anyway, I would keep experimenting with other discs to make sure it's not a quirk with that one audio track. Also make sure the PS3 has gone through the "auto detect" procedure for audio setup so it knows that the receiver can receive all audio formats over HDMI.
post #11088 of 11322
@WapCaplet -

1. Also note that the Surr Back/Amp Assign speaker posts are used for powered Zone 2 if you wanted to drop down to a 5.1 setup in the main zone as well as when you use the A+B speaker setting all four front main speakers are seen as 4-ohm speakers by the AVR (ie. if originally spec'd at 8-ohm) which will require more power to maintain the same volume.

2. Ensure the SB CH Out setting is set to PLIIx Cinema and not set to OFF (p. 44 OM).
post #11089 of 11322
Thanks jdsoothie,

I confirmed last night that I don't actually have a "Zone 2". I've connected 2 extra speakers to the 'Front B' posts (these speakers are in a different area). Now I just use the 'Speakers' button to switch off the 'Front B' speakers. Can I rightly assume that when the 'B' speakers are off, full power is now going to the Front A speakers? Or do the Front B speakers have to actually be removed in order to restore full power the Front A speakers?

I will check the SB CH Out setting tonight. Thanks for the suggestion! I'm pretty sure it's just a configuration problem on the AVR-789 as my PS3 is behaving normally.

Thanks also to batpig for all the help. I can always count on the folks here at AVS to solve my problems. Much appreciated!

Tom
post #11090 of 11322
Correct. Front A acts normally when A+B is no longer selected.
post #11091 of 11322
I have the AVR-1909 and have never really set it up correctly from new. I decided to clean the case both inside and out and try to hook it up correctly. I used the Audyssey feature that activated when I plugged the mic in. I did all six seating locations. The sub woofer seemed to not work until I switched the speakers to small. I think it is ok now. I also have no idea if there is a manual EQ , bass, treble, adjustment etc. I can't find it.
I have a blu-ray player and FIOS set top box going into the unit with HDMI cables attached. The problem is that the set top box has no HDMI connection location on the AVR-1909 so I connected it to the VCR slot and yet on the remote there is a Cable/SAT selection button. I was wondering if there is a way to re-assign the VCR HDMI port to the Cable/SAT button. I did rename the VCR selection on the display to FIOS, but it is still confusing to my kids. I am reading through this board, but there are over 300 pages and it will take some time. I'm sorry if this has already been asked and answered.
Thanks you.

Current system:
Denon AVR-1909
Bose Acoustimass 7 (Non powered Sub) Added 2 Bose speakers for rear.
Pioneer S-W1000 Sub Woofer (Gave some more kick))
Samsung BluRay BD-2500
Samsung TV- HL61A750A1FXZA
Motorola 7232-P2 HD DVR (Verizon FIOS)

The room is about 17' X 17' with hardwood floors and Sheetrock walls.

note- I know the speakers are old and I am looking to replace them.

Thanks for the help.
post #11092 of 11322
Yes, the HDMI inputs can be reassigned to another source name using the INPUT ASSIGN (HDMI) setting.
post #11093 of 11322
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Yes, the HDMI inputs can be reassigned to another source name using the INPUT ASSIGN (HDMI) setting.
Thank you I will try to do it. I wonder why the cable/sat selection was not assigned an HDMI port initially?
post #11094 of 11322
It is on the XX10 and newer models.
post #11095 of 11322
Question: Is it possible to change the speaker channel levels after the Audessey setup is completed and saved?

A few years ago, when I first had my AVR-789, I went through the whole Audessey sound process and completed the Audessey setup. Since then, I have misplaced the setup microphone somewhere.

Now, I changed my room layout and I just want to manually dial down the surround speaker channel levels.

It seems I can do that manual adjustment, BUT it's not permanently saved! ? The Audessey modes "Dyn EQ/Vol" works fine after my manual adjustments, which is what I want; but once I change Inputs or turn off the receiver, the original settings revert back.

How do I save my manual adjustments/tweaks permanently and still allow Audessey to function?

These are the steps I used to go and manually adjust my levels:
A.Menu -> Manual Setup -> Speaker setup -> Channel Level -> Test Tone Start (Then, I just lower the levels at surround channels)

Thanks!
post #11096 of 11322
Yes, it is possible and much easier if you simply use the "CH Select/Enter" button on the remote. Once changing the volume, however, if you are using a Quick Select button to power on a device, you'll need to rememorize that Quick Select button with the new levels, otherwise, they will revert back whatever levels are stored in the Quick Select. Also note, you'll want to either find your setup mic (or purchase a new one, ~ $25) and rerun Audyssey again due to changing the room layout.
post #11097 of 11322
Thanks for the tip JD! It worked!
And, using the CH Select/Enter button was so much more convenient!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Yes, it is possible and much easier if you simply use the "CH Select/Enter" button on the remote. Once changing the volume, however, if you are using a Quick Select button to power on a device, you'll need to rememorize that Quick Select button with the new levels, otherwise, they will revert back whatever levels are stored in the Quick Select. Also note, you'll want to either find your setup mic (or purchase a new one, ~ $25) and rerun Audyssey again due to changing the room layout.
post #11098 of 11322
Probably answered, but can not find it on my search here, so I just thought I will ask some folks doing 3D here.

I have been a happy Denon 1909 customer, have been following this thread on and off.

We recently bought Mitsubishi DLP WD-82742 3D TV with Sony BDP-BX59 3D blueray player. Since my 1909 does not passthrough 3D, I am wondering what my options are. I considered optical, coaxial etc., but I really want to retain 7.1 HD audio.

I am not sure if it will work, but I have on order this monoprice 3D capable splitter: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10113&cs_id=1011306&p_id=7522&seq=1&format=2

I heard this splitter needs both devices to be 3D capable to work as intended.

Are there any other splitters that will work for my situation? I really do not want to upgrade the receiver, not that I can afford at this time either.

Any suggestions or recommendations are greatly appreciated.
post #11099 of 11322
A splitter won't work. You need a dual HDMI output blu ray player.
post #11100 of 11322
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

A splitter won't work. You need a dual HDMI output blu ray player.

Thanks a lot batpig, my math worked out cheaper with a splitter, so I thought I will give that a try first. Those 3D players with dual hdmi ports seem to cost over $200. Do you have any recommendations? I would love to hear your take on some of those players.
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