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*Official* Denon AVR 1909/789 Thread - Page 9

post #241 of 11323
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozcot View Post

Bugs: What are your thoughts on the Audyssey Dynamic EQ ? I am interested in that cause I heard it is like The old Loud function on steroids. Want to have as much punch as possible but with clarity.. I was all set to get the 606 till the hum problem and heat issue were brought to my attention. I am now between the Denon 1909 or the older 988 which is now $650 from $1200 better sound processors and more power but lacks the Audyssey Dynamic EQ. Also looking at the Pioneer 1018 but it does not have any Audyssey technology it uses MACD for speaker set up not sure how it compares to Audyssey MultiEQ. Thanks for any info.

Audyssey Dynamic EQ is aimed primarily at correcting sound quality at lower volumes, see: http://www.audyssey.com/technology/dynamicEQ.html

Both the 606 and the 1909 have this feature and I found it to be very effective, compared to a much older system I had with a "Loud" function. I would give a nod to the 1909 over the 606 because, to my ears, the 1909 sounds a bit cleaner with Dynamic EQ applied. When I was looking for a replacement for the 606, I considered the 1018, but ultimately decided that I prefered Audyssey technology over MACD because it was developed independently of any AVR manufacturer and seemed to have broader support. Also, I decided that if I was going to change from the 606 (which I liked), I wanted an upgrade to an AVR with Dynamic EQ plus Dynamic Volume.

Whether Dymanic EQ and Dynamic Volume are valuable to you will depend on your listening habits. If you listen primarily at or above reference, you won't get much benefit from either. If you do a lot of listening at low to moderate volume levels, Dynamic EQ will provide a better sound quality. If you find that you are constantly lowering the volume during loud scenes, only to raise it to hear the dialog during quiet scenes, then you will really appreciate Dynamic Volume.
post #242 of 11323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugs View Post

Audyssey Dynamic EQ is aimed primarily at correcting sound quality at lower volumes, see: http://www.audyssey.com/technology/dynamicEQ.html

Both the 606 and the 1909 have this feature and I found it to be very effective, compared to a much older system I had with a "Loud" function. I would give a nod to the 1909 over the 606 because, to my ears, the 1909 sounds a bit cleaner with Dynamic EQ applied. When I was looking for a replacement for the 606, I considered the 1018, but ultimately decided that I prefered Audyssey technology over MACD because it was developed independently of any AVR manufacturer and seemed to have broader support. Also, I decided that if I was going to change from the 606 (which I liked), I wanted an upgrade to an AVR with Dynamic EQ plus Dynamic Volume.

Whether Dymanic EQ and Dynamic Volume are valuable to you will depend on your listening habits. If you listen primarily at or above reference, you won't get much benefit from either. If you do a lot of listening at low to moderate volume levels, Dynamic EQ will provide a better sound quality. If you find that you are constantly lowering the volume during loud scenes, only to raise it to hear the dialog during quiet scenes, then you will really appreciate Dynamic Volume.


I still can't decide between the 988 and the 1909. Your positive review of DynamicVolume makes me want the 1909, but then every single other thing about it makes me want the 988. the problem is, we DO have an issue with always playing around with the volume during loud scenes. I always hated how a movie would go from a soft whisper to suddenly explosions that would wake the neighbors. Even when I can listen to it at like -25, -20, it's still a problem.

So as you can see, I am stuck in my decision. I don't know if I am comfortable placing the majority of my decision in a "gimmick" feature like AVL.
post #243 of 11323
I would consider the old methods of Dynamic Compression and loudness controls gimmick features not Dynamic Volume. If Dynamic Volume is what you mean by AVL.
post #244 of 11323
Quote:
Originally Posted by heebdawg16 View Post

I still can't decide between the 988 and the 1909. Your positive review of DynamicVolume makes me want the 1909, but then every single other thing about it makes me want the 988. the problem is, we DO have an issue with always playing around with the volume during loud scenes. I always hated how a movie would go from a soft whisper to suddenly explosions that would wake the neighbors. Even when I can listen to it at like -25, -20, it's still a problem.

So as you can see, I am stuck in my decision. I don't know if I am comfortable placing the majority of my decision in a "gimmick" feature like AVL.

Ultimately, these decisions are based on personal preferences, budgets and feature/benefit trade-offs. You mentioned two plus factors for the 988: better sound processing and greater power. On the minus side, the 988 has only 2 HDMI inputs and lacks Audyssey Dymanic Volume

How good are your ears? In an A/B demo, can you differentiate between sound processors? How important is it to you?

As far as the slight increase in power is concerned, it seems that would be a deciding factor pirmarily if you have inefficient speakers or prefer to listen at very high sound levels.

Does your S.O. have a vote in this? Ask about the relative value of more power vs. not having to constantly play with the volume control.

I second Gary J's comment: Dymanic Volume isn't a gimmick, it's a real and valuable feature that can be appreciated by non-audiophiles and audiopliles alike.
post #245 of 11323
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaybarbour View Post

one thing i noticed on the HD tracks last night was an annoying high pitch buzz every once in a awhile. if i turned it back to the regular dolby digital it was fine but the DD-HD track would put out these high pitch ringing noises at higher volume levels (close to reference or at reference).

I have listened to about 10 DD-HH and DTS-HD and haven't heard anything but great clear sound. Is it possible you might have a bad disk or a loose connection?
post #246 of 11323
I have the same situation as others here.
Initially I was between Pioneer 1018 and Onkyo 606. then I was set on 606 due to audessy and 4 hdmi inputs. with heat and buzz noice issues started to come out for 606, I was disappointed and look for other choices. Denon 1909 seems fit my needs and more with audyssey volume.

after reading more about new denon line-ups, I now between 1909 and 889. I prefer 889 since it got the followings which are important:

-4 hdmi (1909 only has 3 hdmi)
-100 watts per channel (1909 rated 90watts, not much but something)
-Made in Japan (based on last year 888 model)

I don't want 2309 since it is more expensive and has following features that 889 lacks but not important:
- $100 more
- RS232 port
- 12v Trigger
- second-zone remote and two-way control ready
- deattachable power line


anyone have a picture of 889 and know when it will be available? Is 889 made in China or Japan?
post #247 of 11323
I used the Audyssey auto set-up last night. Sounds great, but I like more volume from the center speaker for the voices. Could I go into the manual speaker set-up, raise the volume of the center speaker without changing the other 4 speakers or would that cancel the Audyssey?
post #248 of 11323
Quote:
Originally Posted by solcris View Post

I have listened to about 10 DD-HH and DTS-HD and haven't heard anything but great clear sound. Is it possible you might have a bad disk or a loose connection?


not sure, did you listen to batman begins yet? it seemed fine when i threw in a few other dvd's. need to figure out what it is though as it's annoying.
post #249 of 11323
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaybarbour View Post

not sure, did you listen to batman begins yet? it seemed fine when i threw in a few other dvd's. need to figure out what it is though as it's annoying.


I have not listened to Batman, but I have listened at high volumes with nothing but great sound. Maybe someone else on this site can be of more help.
post #250 of 11323
JR now accepting preorders for the Denon AVR 1909 for $499.00 Contact Jacque at
800-221-8180 ext 1015.
post #251 of 11323
when are they delivering them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Harrison View Post

JR now accepting preorders for the Denon AVR 1909 for $499.00 Contact Jacque at
800-221-8180 ext 1015.
post #252 of 11323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Harrison View Post

JR now accepting preorders for the Denon AVR 1909 for $499.00 Contact Jacque at
800-221-8180 ext 1015.

Quote:
Originally Posted by enkur View Post

when are they delivering them?

Same question here. $499 is a great price for the 1909, especially from an authorized retailer.

I wonder what the 889 is going to be priced at.
post #253 of 11323
when is 889 coming out
post #254 of 11323
Quote:
Originally Posted by nosferatu2xlc View Post

when is 889 coming out

That's the magic question...

It seems that no one knows, at this point. Denon has not even put up the online manual yet for the 2309/889, so any answer (by a non-Denon employee) would be a guess. My guess: mid-August.

By the way, I have heard a lot of discussion about the 1909, but hardly anything about the 789, which leads me to believe that there is a delay between the release of the X89 series from the XX09 series.

Has anyone heard of any place that has the 789 in stock? Or even a place that is taking pre-orders for the 789?
post #255 of 11323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Harrison View Post

JR now accepting preorders for the Denon AVR 1909 for $499.00 Contact Jacque at
800-221-8180 ext 1015.

Makes you wonder what they will sell the 2309 and 2809 for?
post #256 of 11323
I found one annoying characteristic of the 1909. I have my DIRECTV HR21 connected to the 1909 via HDMI and HDMI from the 1909 to my Samsung LN-52A750. When I change DIRECTV channels, there is a full 7 second delay before the change is completed. During this period, the screen goes black immediately, the sound returns after 4 seconds and then the video resumes after 7 seconds. With the HR21 connected directly to the TV, I believe the channel change delay is only a couple of seconds, but I'll have to check now to get it more precisely.

When I had the Onkyo 606, I don't recall that it added anything to the channel switching time. I'm surprised that there is any additional delay, given that the 1909 is just doing a pass-through of the video signal. At least I think that's the case.
post #257 of 11323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugs View Post

I found one annoying characteristic of the 1909. I have my DIRECTV HR21 connected to the 1909 via HDMI and HDMI from the 1909 to my Samsung LN-52A750. When I change DIRECTV channels, there is a full 7 second delay before the change is completed. During this period, the screen goes black immediately, the sound returns after 4 seconds and then the video resumes after 7 seconds. With the HR21 connected directly to the TV, I believe the channel change delay is only a couple of seconds, but I'll have to check now to get it more precisely.

When I had the Onkyo 606, I don't recall that it added anything to the channel switching time. I'm surprised that there is any additional delay, given that the 1909 is just doing a pass-through of the video signal. At least I think that's the case.


damn, 7 second is bad. I had a Sattelite receiver and it took about 3 second to change channels and I thought it is long and annoying. could it be just one bad apple?

if this is true for 2309/889, then I will not buy denon.
post #258 of 11323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugs View Post

I found one annoying characteristic of the 1909. I have my DIRECTV HR21 connected to the 1909 via HDMI and HDMI from the 1909 to my Samsung LN-52A750. When I change DIRECTV channels, there is a full 7 second delay before the change is completed. During this period, the screen goes black immediately, the sound returns after 4 seconds and then the video resumes after 7 seconds. With the HR21 connected directly to the TV, I believe the channel change delay is only a couple of seconds, but I'll have to check now to get it more precisely.

When I had the Onkyo 606, I don't recall that it added anything to the channel switching time. I'm surprised that there is any additional delay, given that the 1909 is just doing a pass-through of the video signal. At least I think that's the case.

I have my Motorola DVR (DCH3416) going to the TV via HDMI with an audio connection to the 1909 via an optical output. After reading your post, I ran the DVR to the TV via one the Denon's HDMI inputs. I found almost no delays when changing channels other than the normal very small delay that the DVR itself always has and the DD5.1 audio was excellent. Maybe it's something with the H21? Mind you, I would be astounded at the Moto DVR being better than any other box at anything. It is generally crap.
post #259 of 11323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Harrison View Post

JR now accepting preorders for the Denon AVR 1909 for $499.00 Contact Jacque at
800-221-8180 ext 1015.

is that $499 shipped or without shipping costs? also, is this a special pre-order price or their regular price?
post #260 of 11323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal1981 View Post

I have my Motorola DVR (DCH3416) going to the TV via HDMI with an audio connection to the 1909 via an optical output. After reading your post, I ran the DVR to the TV via one the Denon's HDMI inputs. I found almost no delays when changing channels other than the normal very small delay that the DVR itself always has and the DD5.1 audio was excellent. Maybe it's something with the H21? Mind you, I would be astounded at the Moto DVR being better than any other box at anything. It is generally crap.

As I said, I didn't notice the delay with the 606 and I'm surprised to find it in the 1909. I'm hoping that there is some HDMI setting I haven't found that is creating the delay.
post #261 of 11323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugs View Post

I found one annoying characteristic of the 1909. I have my DIRECTV HR21 connected to the 1909 via HDMI and HDMI from the 1909 to my Samsung LN-52A750. When I change DIRECTV channels, there is a full 7 second delay before the change is completed. During this period, the screen goes black immediately, the sound returns after 4 seconds and then the video resumes after 7 seconds. With the HR21 connected directly to the TV, I believe the channel change delay is only a couple of seconds, but I'll have to check now to get it more precisely.

When I had the Onkyo 606, I don't recall that it added anything to the channel switching time. I'm surprised that there is any additional delay, given that the 1909 is just doing a pass-through of the video signal. At least I think that's the case.

I think that is more of a function of the DirecTV box and whether you are passing a native signal or having the DirectTV box upconvert.

I have a HR20 and an 8 year old Yamaha AVR. I too have long channel changes. My DirecTV box is HDMI to the Pio plasma and audio via optical to the AVR. I have the DTV box set on native and I have long channel changes, sometimes 7 seconds. I was told it is because of HDMI handshaking for every channel change between the TV and the DTV box. If I set the DTV box at a standard resolution i.e. 1080i the channel changes are quicker than if I set it at native.
post #262 of 11323
Quote:
Originally Posted by anleva View Post

I think that is more of a function of the DirecTV box and whether you are passing a native signal or having the DirectTV box upconvert.

I have a HR20 and an 8 year old Yamaha AVR. I too have long channel changes. My DirecTV box is HDMI to the Pio plasma and audio via optical to the AVR. I have the DTV box set on native and I have long channel changes, sometimes 7 seconds. I was told it is because of HDMI handshaking for every channel change between the TV and the DTV box. If I set the DTV box at a standard resolution i.e. 1080i the channel changes are quicker than if I set it at native.

Thanks for the suggestion anleva, changing the HR21 output from "Native" to 1080i reduced the channel change time from 7 seconds to 3 seconds. My preference was to have the LN-52A750 to the upconversion, but I'll see what I think of the HR21's performance before I go back to a 7 second channel change.
post #263 of 11323
So overall, how do you 1909 owners like it so far?

I just can't bring myself to make a decision between the 988 from Circuit City right now, and the 1909. So basically, I'm just going to wait it out and let the deal at CC go away, and the decision will be mostly made for me.

Then it will be between the 1909, or the 889 depending on when the release date for the 889 is, and the price it will cost.

Audyssey VolumeLeveling seems to tempting to pass up. I just hope I am making the right decision by not getting the 2808/988 for LESS than the 1909 will cost me
post #264 of 11323
I am going to be getting a new receiver at some point and have been following this thread along with the HK 254 thread. I have been very surprised that neither thread discusses the other receiver. I would have thought they were similar and would have invited extensive comparisons.

From what I have gathered, HKs are known for their rich, warm sound. For the Denons the Auddyssey features seem to be a big selling point. I get confused when trying to compare the type of upscaling, etc.

I want a nice receiver that will upconvert so I can send everything to the tv via hdmi. I want as many hdmi inputs as possible since I already have 3 devices with hdmi (and expect a future bluray player and computer purchase to have hdmi). In fact I am considering waiting under the assumption that next years receivers will have more hdmi inputs.


Now, maybe I am overestimating the need for hdmi iputs. When is component just as good as hdmi (ex. I'm guessing for a normal upconverting dvd player it isn't that crucial).


Also, am I correct that future computers will be outputing via hdmi rather than vga? My computer was connected to my previous tv via vga cable. I am having builtins built, wires run, etc and am undecided on whether to run this cable for the computer, or whether an hdmi cable would be more useful for all future computer purchases.


If anyone can compare the Denon 1909 to the 254 I would appreciate it. Although it appears that many people here upgrade equipment on a regular basis, this will be a substantial purchase for me that I expect to keep for several years. So any advice/opinions will be greatly appreciated.


FWIW - I will be connecting a SA8300hd cable box, sony ns75h upconverting dvd player, toshiba A2 hd-dvd, pan es20 dvd recorder and vcr to a pioneer 5020 tv.


Thank You
OMeany
post #265 of 11323
A few points -

You are not going to find receivers in this price range that upconvert nearly as well as your HDTV.

You are not going to find receivers in this price range that have more than 3 or 4 HDMI inputs even next year but no problem with HDMI switchers like the Oppo HM-31.

Bottom line most people would not say component (which is analog) is as desirable as HDMI (digital and the one wire solution) for both video and audio (think lossless audio).

As for Audyssey, Room EQ is worth the price of admission, Dynamic Volume and Dynamic EQ are icing on the cake.
post #266 of 11323
I cant decide either. The CC deal will probably be over before we know it. The number of CC's with the 988 in stock, has been going down everyday. For some reason I wanted the 2808 though.

On one hand, Im sure the 1909 is probably better than anything else I would find for the price. On the other hand its not everyday you can get a 1200 dollar receiver (988) for half price! hmmm...

Aside from the JR pre order deal of the 1909, the price of the 1909 at BB or others can only remain the same or come down in the future right?. There seems to always be a BB or CC 10% coupon floating around so no hurry I suppose.

Figure why spend anymore time trying to figure out this stuff. The worst thing that could happen is we will end up with a kick butt new Denon (1909)receiver at a fair price with lots of goodies.

I have already thought jeez this one (1909) maybe half price this time next year too. Can you imagine that?
No expert here but thought I might relay my thoughts to another person on the fence.
Besides, I dont even have my new entertainment center yet and cant decide on that. LOL.


Quote:
Originally Posted by heebdawg16 View Post

So overall, how do you 1909 owners like it so far?

I just can't bring myself to make a decision between the 988 from Circuit City right now, and the 1909. So basically, I'm just going to wait it out and let the deal at CC go away, and the decision will be mostly made for me.

Then it will be between the 1909, or the 889 depending on when the release date for the 889 is, and the price it will cost.

Audyssey VolumeLeveling seems to tempting to pass up. I just hope I am making the right decision by not getting the 2808/988 for LESS than the 1909 will cost me
post #267 of 11323
Quote:
Originally Posted by zyren View Post

is that $499 shipped or without shipping costs? also, is this a special pre-order price or their regular price?

It includes shipping.
post #268 of 11323
Quote:
Originally Posted by enkur View Post

when are they delivering them?

I was told about two weeks. Could be longer.
post #269 of 11323
Has anyone plugged a HTPC to their Denon 1909 yet?
post #270 of 11323
I just finished watching a BluRay with the Volume leveling active. I didn't have to adjust the sound at all between the explosions and dialogue. It worked great for me. I'm very pleased with this feature.
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