*Official* Denon AVR 1909/789 Thread - Page 114

First off, you can select the quote you want to respond to by pressing the Quote button in the quote. You can also edit your own post by pressing the Edit button in your quote.

Yes, I can still listen through the speakers unlike when plugging into the headphone jack where sound to all speakers is cut.

yeah..my first forum:-) still learning.

Are you now talking about the 3808 or the 1909? And yes thats the point, but the manual doesn't say how to set up the speakers AND the analog out for the same source. I have no sound on the phono's on the back only speakers.

I realized what you were asking about the speakers and edited my previous response accordingly. Also, the analog outs on your 1909 are always ON and playing whatever source is being fed in. Not sure what "no sound on the phono's on the back only speaker's means".

yes thats what i thought! but there are no sounds on my analog outs("OUT VCR" on back panel) I only have the sound in my speakers(5.1)... So I thought I had to go through some settings....hhmm... I am lost. I tried with 3 different cables with the same result...But ok I can always use the headphone out... but then there will be cables on the front of the AVR...

It could be nice to have a constant analog output to my wireless transmitter(analog).

And at the same time listen to the SAME source in my speakers.(5.1)

Sorry, should have said that digital input via Optical only not with HDMI.

I am using S/PDIF coaxial input.

I bought a refurb Denon two weeks ago and found myself packing it up and shipping it back three days later. After I ran it for 8 hours or so the speakers started emitting LOUD snapping noises, which at one point got worse and worse until the entire tuner output disappeared into a howl. I did some reading after that, and found a pile of people with horror stories about Denon refurbs. It seems like they just take the returns and box 'em back up, hoping the next person will not complain.

The sad thing is that before I shipped it back, I'd already dropped it off an an authorized Denon service center just a couple miles from my house, and they declared, "Nothing wrong." But I bet they did not let it run for a long time.

You did mention that up front, forgot. I don't have a coax output device to test that, however, it should work.

Thanks for the reply, and thanks for the correction. I'm a little confused, though. I didn't think that the TV will up-convert. It seems that if it really does up-convert, then there wouldn't be a point in getting an AVR that does the up-conversion. So I guess I don't understand your point. I'm sorry if I'm on a point that is completely obvious to the experienced--we're still newbies to this whole thing, but we believe we are reasonably intelligent and technically inclined, so theoretically we're capable of understanding...

A little more information would help:

(1) Did you buy it from either Dakmart or Ecost, as these are the only authorized refurb vendors?
(2) Did you try a Master Reset before returning it?
(3) Are you running 4 ohm speakers?



Exactly the Dr's point ... why buy an AVR that can upscale if it's an not necessary? Your Hitachi is a "fixed panel" 1080p display, which means the only resolution the TV can display is 1080p. Therefore, EVERYTHING that is fed into it, regardless of the resolution, is upscaled to 1080p. The only consideration is which of the components has the better quality video upscaling chip, as there are several in the setup to choose from ... the TV, the HD DVR, the DVD/BD player, or finally the Denon AVR. At this level of Denon, the 1909 is no better an upscaler than any of the other components which is why your best bet is to not use it, rather go:

HD DVR ---> HDMI ----> 1909 ----> HDMI ----> TV

or

HD DVR ---> HDMI ----> TV
HD DVR ---> Optical ----> 1909

And just to confirm what the FAQ stated, should you decide to use the 1909 for upscaling, you cannot use an HDMI cable.

you are exactly correct, there isn't much point in getting an AVR (or any other device, including upscaling DVD players) that does up-conversion unless it does it better than your TV. welcome to marketing, in which every modern AV device has to splash "UPCONVERTS TO 1080p!!!!!" on the cover to get you to buy it.... of which you are now the 1,356,576th victim.

Your display HAS TO upconvert. If your TV is 1080p, and it doesn't upconvert, why doesn't a 480 signal come out like a tiny little rectangle in the middle of the screen? Those 480 lines somehow have to spread out to fill 1080 lines, right?

Time to read the AVR FAQ at the top of this forum.

Ok, ok, now I am getting it.
We were looking at something like this because the Hitachi only has one HDMI input, that's it. Nothing else (except for a computer input). So now it seems we really don't need anything to up-convert, we just need a box to act as a switcher between all of our components. That's pretty cool. We are pretty basic in our setup--we only have two speakers, no surround sound. I suppose we may end up with surround sound at some point, but we live in a small apartment and it seems overkill, particularly since we won't be able to take full advantage of it. So now I guess we can go back to looking at cheaper A/V receivers.

And I *had* read the FAQ at the top of the forum, I guess I just didn't understand it all.
edit: oops, I hadn't realized there's a separate AVR FAQ. I've now read it. That was VERY helpful. Thanks.

Thanks.

YUP! I bet that's it. THANKS!!!!

Perhaps not ... now that I think about it, doesn't Dynamic EQ have to be ON when Dynamic Volume is ON as Dynamic Volume uses Dynamic EQ as part of it's processing.

Shopping for an AVR is a real educational experience, isn't it?
I believe you need to be careful not to go too cheap if you want to run your audio thru HDMI. I think the 1909 is the lowest model Denon that allows full HDMI function. The more expert fellows can correct me if I am mistaken.

I don't use the multizone but I'm looking at the (2809) manual and clearly no HDMI source will work. Your only hope is optical or coaxial.

Denon Manual bullet point footnotes (in my 2809 man p69 Multizone Operations):
"Dig audio signals from HDMI conn cannot be played in multizone."
I believe it must also be a 2 ch PCM source:
"When the input source to which the input connectors (Opt/Coax) are assigned is selected in Zone 2 or 3, playback is only possible if the dig signal input is in PCM (2 ch) format."
Apparently even that doesn't assure success-how bout this one:
"When certain dig signals are input noise may be output from zone 2,3." ??
The Zones are tied into Rec-

"The source selected for Zone 2 is also output from recording output conn."

Denon Manual bullet point footnotes (in my 2809 man p 58 Recording):

"Digital audio signals from the HDMI connectors are not output to the rec out...so connect using optical or coaxial."
"Signals are only output to the analog Rec Out connectors when the digital signals input to the digital connectors (Optical/Coaxial) are PCM (2 ch) inputs. "
"The source selected for Zone 2 is output from the dig output conn (Opt 2)"

"Sources selected with the Rec Out mode are ouput from Zone 2" but then confusingly:
"In the Rec Out mode the unit's Zone 2 mode buttons cannot be operated."

But maybe one of our Denon gurus can decipher the more cryptic passages.

He is using coaxial.

I have the 1909.

I recently switched my connection from my cablebox to receiver from optical to HDMI. I now notice that when I switch sources, like from DVD to TV, the sound takes considerably longer to come on than with the optical. Same when I go and adjust some settings - the sound will cut off until I'm done with the adjustment.

Yep. As mentioned in previous posts, you're experiencing HDMI "handshake" issues which is why folks that do experience the "cut outs" generally stick with non HDMI cables unless you change your other components. I would suggest going back to the optical cable as the HDMI cable doesn't offer any real advantage.

Interesting, thanks.

It could be my imagination, but as soon as I swapped my optical for HDMI for the TV, I instantly noticed better sound - voice were more transparent, with clearer highs...then again....

Hmm .. can't argue with the placebo effect, however, technically they should be the same for DD 5.1 which is the best your cable company can do at the current time.

I may just do a test and switch back to optical to see if the sound degrades.

I'm as you remember trying to figure out my constant audio drop out issue. Since I notice the speaker indicators on the left part of the display blink as the audio drops out, it seems to point to the cable box itself.

Next weekend I plan to swap cable boxes from Time Warner and see if that changes things. Otherwise...

Which is why I suggested just staying with the optical cable in the first place.

Right, jd, I got that-and thanks for your efforts.
I was just clarifying that either coax or optical appears to be an option. If I am understanding the situation, JR79 cannot figure out how he can get the coax input to output to Zone 2 output (analog). So the main reason for my post and for including the actual quotes from the manual is that the manual and even the posts on the issue of non-HDMI digital are a bit confusing so I was hoping that you, or someone else such as batpig might try to explain it in simpler terms and shed some more light on this for JR. I can't.

And there in lies the rub, as coax is in fact "not" working for him when using the analog outs. Although the idea of Zone 2 was originally introduced by the OP, his problem is also solved by simply connecting his wireless transmitter to an analog OUT jack as I do with my wireless headphones.


A workaround, if the coax option proves to be unsuccessful, might be a coax/optical converter which sells for about $70 US.

I've got the same problem with my Motorola DCH3200 from Cox. Even though I set it to "1080i/Sidebar 4:3 Image", changing inputs on the AVR-789 causes it to lose this setting and revert to 480i for SD channels, the "1080i/Keep 4:3 Image - 480i" option. The STB front panel indicators flash betwen 480i and 1080i a couple of times before settling down. I previously had the STB connected directly over HDMI to my Sony 40W4100, and I never had this problem. Note that I never turn off my cable box, and this happens merely when switching inputs on the receiver. Did you ever find a solution to this problem?

jdsmoothie and SoundofMind, thank you very much for your efforts! It is much appreciated! And yes two of my friends bought the same AVR, but they returned it because of the bad/confusing user manual and setup problems. Maybe Denon should start making manuals that are not that difficult and confusing for normal people. Anyway I am not returning mine! Simply said,I just want:

- To have a constant analog OUTPUT to my wireless transmitter(analog) on the BACKPANEL of the AVR. It doesn't need to be the 2 zone out(but could be nice).

- At the SAME TIME listen to the SAME source in my speakers.(5.1)

And the source should be coax. digital input.

And from what I understand S/PDIF is EXACTLY the same signal for coax. and optical links. The only difference is that the optical light(~680nm red light) will be converted through a TRANS–AMP(of course with a reversed biased optical detector) to electrical bit stream no different from the bit stream delivered by the 75 Ω coax cable.

I could understand if there wasn’t any extra DAC in the AVR, but they already use a DAC for headphones out on the front. So why not use the same DAC to wire the analog outputs on the back? That should be a very cheap solution….hm.. a little difficult for a stupid Dane like me to understand.

A question for those that have the 1909 and the Panasonic BD-35 Blue Ray player. Both units decode audio and I can have the BD-35 either let the avr do the decoding (bitstream) or let the blue ray player do the decoding (pcm). Is the 1909 a better decoder or is the panny? Does it make a difference which way I go. So far I can't seem to see a difference.

That is because there is no difference. The resulting PCM from decoding in the player and AVR are bit-for-bit identical as per Dolby and DTS licensing agreements. However if you want to use the lossless Secondary Audio features of the player (mixing in PIP. Menu sounds, etc.) you must decode in the player.

Heh. Yes, we're learning quite a lot.
I agree that if we want to have everything (including audio) go digital, we'll probably have to do something like the Denon, but we're going to take a step back and figure out what we're really after. Thanks for the info!!