*Official* Denon AVR 1909/789 Thread - Page 119

I have to say, while I do agree that Rex's interjections about the shortcomings of Audyssey are a little too frequent and overbearing, it's totally unfair to say he's been "incapable of reasoned discourse". I think Rex has been very reasonable and not induced fanboy-flame-war at all, a difficult thing to do when making direct detailed brand comparisons on an owner's thread.

That being said, Rex, you've said your piece, so why not just let the thread get back on course stay focused on 1909/789 related issues.

That seems like a really good price. I paid about ( I mean my wife paid) about $530.00......You will love playing with this reciever!!!! Welcome to this thread there is a lot of valuable knowledge here.......But today brought a lot of laughs

Thanks batpig! (everytime I hear or see the name "batpig" for some reason, it reminds me
of those Damn wicked flying monkeys on the Wizard of Oz that used to scare the Crap out of me when I was a kid!

Bad Cop here -

Audyssey does not have shortcomings with respect to what it is intended to do - to provide Room EQ. That is all it is intended to do in this AVR. He wants it to do something other than that. It's like if my wife asks why did I bring home all of those apples and I say I what to make pumpkin pie.

batpig, thanks. If it wasn't for the specific questions asked by a couple people, I wouldn't have commented further on Audyssey's limitation. It seemed very relevant to what they were asking about.

Gary, I always hate analogies because they're usually bad ones. But with apples, even if you pick them from a different tree, you still can't make apple pie. That doesn't correlate with this issue. Anyway, I just responded to questions which were regarding making adjustments because those users were not happy with the Audyssey calibration. I made no comparision to another unnamed systems in my response. So don't shoot me for responding to them. I was not slamming Audyssey, just stated some facts that I thought were very relevant to the questions posted, whether I personally wanted that capability or not. Seem fair. I'm optimistic about the future of these receivers as well.

Merry Christmas.

Well after a couple nights, I finally got my 1909 all set up. So busy with work it was hard finding enough hours in the day to get it done. Plus I had to read up on this thread and read the manual a few times. I wish Denon did a better job of explaining the purposes or benefits of certain setups and features. A special thanks to Batpig for answering my questions!!

A few observations:

1) The I/P scaler in the 1909 does not even come close to matching that in my Panny PZ80, which isn't even an expensive TV. Having the scaler on or off on the Denon made no difference, they both looked crappy with my VCR connected. Therefore, I currently have my VCR video (RCA outs only) connected to my TV.

2) I ran Audyssey twice and got a little bit different results. I presume this is because I placed the microphone a little further back for the second set of measurements (about a foot further back). First time, fronts were 8 feet away and they measured +1 LF 0 RF. Second time they were 9.2 feet away and I got +1.5 LF and +1 RF. Mind you, I only have a 2.0 setup right now and no sub. I think the sound is a little better after the second measurement, but who knows. Audyssey did do a great job for my unusual open-room layout, which has my living room area disproportionately shifted to the left wall.

3) The Audyssey EQ features are absolutely incredible. I watched Lord of War last night on on the midnight setting for Dynamic Volume, and I could still get a rich and detailed sound with all of the gun firing and explosions. Amazing! That feature also does wonders for television commercials.

4) I guess I need to learn the remote better, because I find the back side buttons easier to use for messing with the onscreen menu.

All in all, I am very happy with my purchase and I thank everyone on this forum for helping me make an educated decision.

Pumpkin pie sounds good!!

Especially since there's often one rotten apple in the barrel!

Hey Gary J,
I checked out your big screen HT. link, Pretty Awesome.I would love to own some DEf/techs but $$$$. I listened to them at the BB Magnolia room.

Can You or someone please confirm for me that when I go to rename my quick selects I'm actually just reassigning them? I renamed my on screen display from tv/cable> to> SAMSUNG..so I should leave quick select #2 alone? I don't need to rename quick select 2 SAMSUNG?

Thanks. The 1909 is in a different setup.

You have not reassigned anything. Just renamed to your preference.

which of these is good for a ps3(HDMI) and DirecTV HR20 DVR(HDMI), 5.1 setup in a smaller room?

whats the 1909 going to give me that the Onkyo 606 or Marantz 4002 can't for the extra money?

Audyssey ??,Dependability??,Sound??. I just replaced my old Denon I used every day since 1990 and just purchased the 1909 and have a lot of confidents in IT

How come after doing the Audyssey mic set up thing, it will tell me that my front L is say 6 ft away and my front R is 7.6 ft away when they're both around 7 ft away?? (I used hypothetical numbers here since I can't remember the exact figs)

It has to do with sound reflections in the room. Remember it is a measurement of "electrical" distance not physical distance.

the distance measurements are taken from the first microphone position. are you sure that Audyssey is wrong? did you break out a tape measure to verify? Audyssey is spot on most of the time calculating distances (expect with the sub of course) unless there are weird acoustic issues.

EDIT: right, what Gary said. Remember, the whole point of a "distance measurement" in a receiver is really to serve as a proxy for TIME DELAY, making sure the sound gets to the listening position when it's supposed to.

Yes, I measured the distance and the 2 fronts relative to my sweet spot cannot be off by 1.5 ft or whatever it read.

But like you guys said, it's a measure of acoustic distance, not physical, so that explains it.

Thanks!

While we are speaking of room acoustics and such You-Know-Who learning his lessons in the Audyssey thread -


Quote:
Originally Posted by RexCarson
Did you see this reference to MCACC regarding the current models? From the looks of things in the latest generation of Advanced MCACC, it looks like it would address more than 3 standing waves.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&#post15270577

Audyssey should do well also with all those FIR filters.





The reference to 3 standing waves by Pioneer is quite amusing and doesn't make any sense. There is an infinite number of standing waves that occur in a room of given dimensions. Claiming to correct only 3 shows (a) a lack of understanding of the problem or more likely (b) the Marketing dept. misinterpreted something that the engineers said.

It would be interesting to ask them how they know which three they correct

________

Chris





This has been a Bad Cop exclusive

Gary J or Batpig,

When I watch TV, some channels sound so good while others have so much bass to them. Should I physically turn down the sub or turn down the sub and re-run audyssey? The sub setting is right at halfway right now. Is there a way to turn it down via the receiver? For the life of me I could not find it in the manual.

Thanks

That is what the Audyssey feature Dynamic Volume was designed to help with. You should also read through the Audyssey Setup Guide to make sure you calibrated in the most preferred manner.

also, some TV channels just are poorly mixed and have super rumbly bass.

if you want to just temporarily turn down the sub volume, you can cycle through the channels and just turn it down (see pg 63 of the manual, CHANNEL LEVEL)

interested in the 1909 to upgrade my miserable HTIB. However, I don't believe I'll be using most of the inputs except for the speaker cable inputs. I would rather connect my components directly to the tv and not pass through the receiver. Is the 1909 still the way to go?

sure, there is no requirement that you have to run the video through the receiver.

however, if you are intending to get (or already have) a blu ray player, you will want to at least pass the HDMI through the receiver to get the full lossless sound. If you only run an optical digital cable to the receiver, you will not have access to the full quality sound.

for all other types of inputs, however, there is no real necessity to running the video through the receiver, other than just simplifying cabling and switching duties.

that's good to know. So I'll probably only run a couple hdmi inputs through the receiver for the lossless sound. And probably a digital coax or fiber optic out from the tv. Then is the 1909 good for what I need? I just want great sound from hd dvds, blu rays, and xbox360. It seems like many of these receivers have so many options, but my tv has plenty of inputs too.

you don't want to run OUT from the TV, almost every TV's audio output will downmix to 2-channel (unless you are outputting from HD channels via the internal tuner). Any source device that you want multichannel sound from, you need a direct digital audio connection from device to receiver.

ok...from the tv it would be from hd channels. Anyway...final question, should I go for the 1909? Sources would be blu ray, xbox 360, HD TV channels, and possibly PC or Mp3 device. Thanks for your help btw!

Those sources will all work fine with the 1909.

Put it this way. I bought the 1909 because of the Denon reputation, the right number of HDMI inputs, the Audyssey features, and a great price. I will admit that the scaling capabilities for analog video inputs was an attractive feature to me, but after trying to use it with my VCR, I realized that it was just a marketing gimmick. I didn't expect too much from it, but it really does a horrible job. If you have a halfway decent plasma or LCD, you do not need the scaler at all. I leave it completely off. Buy it for reliability and for the Audyssey features.

i ran the audyssey twice today and have given me 2 different crossover frequency for the same speakers any one know why ?

I'm not too worried about scaling, but you've intrigued me. So is scaling ok from other sources (dvd, camcorder etc.) Oh and yes I am definetely interested in Audyssey.

Read the Audyssey Setup Guide.