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*Official* Denon AVR 1909/789 Thread - Page 15

post #421 of 11323
that does help. thanks.

Best buy should be able to sell them. Have them look up the sku on their RSS system, and they should be able to customer fulfill them to you. They are sitting in the warehouse. I called them a couple weeks ago and they said the street date was July 27 or something.
post #422 of 11323
Picked one up with Jaque @ JR. Just too good of a deal to pass up.
post #423 of 11323
Has anyone else run MultEQ on the 1909 and found that it sets ALL the channel levels unusually high? I've run it a few different times in a nice quiet room, and each time I've gotten similar results: front speakers +11 or +12 db, center about +10, all three surrounds +12, and sub +10.

I'm worried that by kicking all the channels up so high, MultEQ had no room left to differentiate the channels when necessary. For example, my surround left speaker is a few feet farther away than all the others, so I would have expected the level to be a bit louder. But with most of the speakers already +12, maybe it couldn't go any higher.

I'm sort of new at this -- should I be paranoid that my speaker cables are corroded or something? Does speaker volume decrease when that happens, causing the auto-setup to compensate? Last thing in the world I want to do is re-strip 24 wire ends.
post #424 of 11323
Quote:
Originally Posted by reedace View Post

Has anyone else run MultEQ on the 1909 and found that it sets ALL the channel levels unusually high? I've run it a few different times in a nice quiet room, and each time I've gotten similar results: front speakers +11 or +12 db, center about +10, all three surrounds +12, and sub +10.

I'm worried that by kicking all the channels up so high, MultEQ had no room left to differentiate the channels when necessary. For example, my surround left speaker is a few feet farther away than all the others, so I would have expected the level to be a bit louder. But with most of the speakers already +12, maybe it couldn't go any higher.

I'm sort of new at this -- should I be paranoid that my speaker cables are corroded or something? Does speaker volume decrease when that happens, causing the auto-setup to compensate? Last thing in the world I want to do is re-strip 24 wire ends.

The first time I ran Audyssey I got +3.5 to +9.5. With some minor changes, I ran it again and got +4.5 to +9.0. I don't really know what to make of these numbers. If you don't get a good answer on this thread, you might try over on the dedicated Audyssey thread.
post #425 of 11323
Did you guys do the basics correctly? 1st position at prime listening area, do all 6 positions, gain on the sub set to half way, low-pass on sub (if any) off or all the way up, mic pointed to ceiling, etc.

Also, the distance are not physical distances, they are "electrical" distances.
post #426 of 11323
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciner View Post

Zone stuff is a bit confusing. Okay so the 1909 can power 7 speakers total. Basically you can have 5 speakers in your main room, and it can also power 2 surrounds that can be in your main room, or elsewhere (your outside speakers). This would be all considered Zone 1 since those 7 speakers must all be the same source.

This is incorrect.

The "surround back" speaker terminals can be assigned as either Zone 2, surround back (for 7.1), or to bi-amp the fronts.

If you assign those channels to Zone 2, then those two channels are Zone 2, that's the whole point! They do not have to play the same source as Zone 1. This is why it's called a "7.1 CH/5.1+2 CH Independent Zone Home Theater Receiver".

I assume that the 1909 keeps the Zone 2 preouts active when the "surround back" channels are assigned to Zone 2 (this is how it works on most Denons). So to accomplish what the OP asked, you have two options:

OPTION 1 -
1. Assign "surround back" amps to "Zone 2". You know have a 5.1 + 2 setup.
2. Hook up the main room as normal.
3. Hook up the outdoor speakers to the Zone 2 speaker terminals (surround back)
4. Hook up the Zone 2 preouts to inputs on your NAD stereo amp
5. Hook up your dining room speakers to the NAD
(Your Denon will now be powering the living room and the two outdoor speakers, and the NAD will be powering the dining room speakers. Note that the Zone 2 pre-outs are line level, so you will not be able to control the volume in the dining room via the Denon. The volume control works only on the speaker outputs, not the Zone2 preouts. In other words, in this setup the Denon will control the volume of the outdoors speakers, but the NAD will control the volume of the dining room speakers)

OPTION 2 -
1. Don't assign "surround back" amps to "Zone 2". You will still have a 5.1 setup and two amps will go unused.
2. Hook up the main room as normal.
3. Hook up the Zone 2 preouts to inputs on your NAD stereo amp
4. Hook up BOTH the outdoor speakers and your dining room speakers to the NAD, ideally to the A/B speaker outputs
(In this setup, your Denon will be powering the 5.1 setup in the living room, and the NAD will be powering both the outdoor and dining room speakers. You will have to control the volume of both Zone 2 speakers via the NAD.)

Hope that clears things up!
post #427 of 11323
So have any of you guys who posted earlier about doing a side-by-side of the 1018 and 1909 actually followed through? I know Whoami had both and end up staying with the 1018, and I'm interested in hearing some more comparisons. I was planning on waiting to upgrade my old AVR until my MFW sub arrived, but with the specials JR is running, I'm not sure it's smart to pass these prices up.
post #428 of 11323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mw182006 View Post

So have any of you guys who posted earlier about doing a side-by-side of the 1018 and 1909 actually followed through? I know Whoami had both and end up staying with the 1018, and I'm interested in hearing some more comparisons. I was planning on waiting to upgrade my old AVR until my MFW sub arrived, but with the specials JR is running, I'm not sure it's smart to pass these prices up.

+1 You just read my mind....
post #429 of 11323
Hmm thanks for clearing that up batpig, but are you sure you can use the Zone 2 pre-out when you've assigned zone 2 to the surrounds? If so, it would have to be the same source as zone 2 surrounds of course. That'd be interesting if so and accomplish what he's asking. Might be able to use that myself for some added functionality
post #430 of 11323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

Did you guys do the basics correctly? 1st position at prime listening area, do all 6 positions, gain on the sub set to half way, low-pass on sub (if any) off or all the way up, mic pointed to ceiling, etc.

Also, the distance are not physical distances, they are "electrical" distances.

Thanks guys. I've been meticulous in how I set up the mic for all 6 positions. As for the sub, I don't think I can control the filter (it's big and powerful but not full of features, just a volume knob). Instead of setting the sub volume knob halfway I intentionally set it lower. (For proper balance, I used to set it even lower than that when I had my old receiver.) Seems like an okay decision given that Audyssey set the sub and the sats at about the same level -- the problem is that all the levels, uniformly, seem too high. I've posted on the Audyssey thread as well (it's huge!), so maybe I'll get some more help there.
post #431 of 11323
post #432 of 11323
Wow, look at me, I'm a Senior Member. I guess that's my reward for my 200th post. I feel much more like I know what I'm talking about now.
post #433 of 11323
Quote:
Originally Posted by reedace View Post

Thanks guys. I've been meticulous in how I set up the mic for all 6 positions. As for the sub, I don't think I can control the filter (it's big and powerful but not full of features, just a volume knob). Instead of setting the sub volume knob halfway I intentionally set it lower. (For proper balance, I used to set it even lower than that when I had my old receiver.) Seems like an okay decision given that Audyssey set the sub and the sats at about the same level -- the problem is that all the levels, uniformly, seem too high. I've posted on the Audyssey thread as well (it's huge!), so maybe I'll get some more help there.

Ah hah. You set it low, Audyssey did not sense much sub, set the level higher and all other speakers to match.
post #434 of 11323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugs View Post

Wow, look at me, I'm a Senior Member. I guess that's my reward for my 200th post. I feel much more like I know what I'm talking about now.

You are not Senior Anything until you change that to something cool.
post #435 of 11323
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciner View Post

Hmm thanks for clearing that up batpig, but are you sure you can use the Zone 2 pre-out when you've assigned zone 2 to the surrounds? If so, it would have to be the same source as zone 2 surrounds of course.

I couldn't find anything specific about that, that's why I'm just assuming as such. The Zone 2 explanation wasn't as thorough as in the manual for other models -- damn those Denon manual writers!! I wish they would be more consistent and provide a little more detail.

Anyway, it's clearly stated for other Denon models.

For example, on my 2307ci on page 42 it states:

"When using the SURR.BACK/ZONE2 amplifier as the ZONE2, the SPEAKER OUT, LINE OUT, and PRE OUT terminals can be used simultaneously in ZONE2."

This is my experience with most Denon models -- the speaker out and the pre out are active simultaneously, I don't know why it would be different in the 1909.

So he can either assign "SURR BACK" to "ZONE2" and use the speaker outputs for the outdoor setup and the pre outs for the dining room (option 1 above), or use the pre outs for both and let the NAD control/power both the outdoor and dining room speakers.

You were correct in that the Denon can power a total of 7 channels. But, the key point of clarification was that when you assign the SURR.BACK amps to ZONE2, you can definitely play a different source to those two channels.
post #436 of 11323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

Did you guys do the basics correctly? 1st position at prime listening area, do all 6 positions, gain on the sub set to half way, low-pass on sub (if any) off or all the way up, mic pointed to ceiling, etc.

Also, the distance are not physical distances, they are "electrical" distances.

I did all of the above and the settings that Audyssey made sound excellent to my ears. I don't know about "electrical distances", but the distances in feet that Audyssey calculated are quite accurate.
post #437 of 11323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugs View Post

I did all of the above and the settings that Audyssey made sound excellent to my ears. I don't know about "electrical distances", but the distances in feet that Audyssey calculated are quite accurate.

As they should be. Electrical pulses traveling through circuits and switches should only account for minor deviations from the physical distances.
post #438 of 11323
Thanks for the info about the Zone 2 options. I was especially grateful about the info you put in from the other Denon manual, as the 1909 manual is very short on explanation. I saw something posted on a Yamaha thread about the manual saying you should not hook up both zone 2 speakers and the pre-outs at the same time. The poster might have been wrong, but hopefully it doesn't apply to Denon anyway.

Even if the pre-outs don't work at the same time as the Zone 2 speakers, the idea of using the A/B speaker on my NAD to power both extra zones is smart. I didn't think of that. No I know I can get sound to both extra rooms without investing in more hardware. I guess when I finally get the 1909 I will experiment with both wiring options and, assuming they both work, just pick the one that is most user friendly.
post #439 of 11323
I would imagine the 1909 would work the same way, i.e. having both the speaker outputs and the pre-outs active simultaneously.

The A/B speaker option on the NAD is nice because you can shut off one or the other independently, although you won't have independent volume control.
post #440 of 11323
Batpig,

Thanks again. Just to complete the setup, you should know that I already have a Niles volume control installed in the wall of my dining room, so I could vary that independently from the outside speakers.

As an aside, when I set up the NAD, what input do I run the cables from the 1909 pre-out to? I assume that I can use any free audio input, even if it is labeled CD or whatever (expect I maybe the phono, since I know that those are different). My NAD is a separate pre-amp and amp. Since I need to control volume, I assume that I will need to use both, not just the 2 channel amp.

Once this is hooked up, I guess I will have to add outdoor speakers to my list of stuff to buy....
post #441 of 11323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

Ah hah. You set it low, Audyssey did not sense much sub, set the level higher and all other speakers to match.

The part I don't really follow is why MultEQ would feel the need to match all the other speaker levels to the sub level if it sensed that only the sub was weak. But this is the best lead I've got so far, so I can't wait to give it another try tonight. (I'll be hearing those test tones in my sleep.)

Thanks!
post #442 of 11323
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHTbuyer View Post

As an aside, when I set up the NAD, what input do I run the cables from the 1909 pre-out to? I assume that I can use any free audio input, even if it is labeled CD or whatever (expect I maybe the phono, since I know that those are different). My NAD is a separate pre-amp and amp. Since I need to control volume, I assume that I will need to use both, not just the 2 channel amp.

I honestly don't know how it would work with that setup, but given that the Zone2 preouts are a fixed line-level output, you can treat it just like any other normal stereo audio input.

Technically, I don't think you even really need the preamp since the Denon is acting as the preamp, unless you want to adjust tone/volume independently with that preamp. If you've got it, you might as well use it though.

The volume control in the dining room definitely gives you some extra flexibility. If you went with Option 1 you could then control the outside volume with the Denon remote and still have easy volume control of the dining room.

Remember that you can't output digital audio to Zone 2, so any sources you are considering for this output need to be hooked up with analog RCA's.
post #443 of 11323
Quote:
Originally Posted by reedace View Post

The part I don't really follow is why MultEQ would feel the need to match all the other speaker levels to the sub level if it sensed that only the sub was weak. But this is the best lead I've got so far, so I can't wait to give it another try tonight. (I'll be hearing those test tones in my sleep.)

Thanks!

Remember it is matching sound levels not the speaker level numbers you see on the setup screen. The numbers may or may not be close but the sound levels you hear should be. It's all relative.
post #444 of 11323
Quote:
Originally Posted by odditory View Post


Girlfriend started to whine that it was taking so long to hook up and "oh no another piece of equipment I have to learn" and I reminded her she doesn't HAVE to learn anything - that it's a priveledge and not a right to have a home theater setup and told her to shut it. I don't put up with "WAF" or GAF in this case - it's b.s. since there's a line of girls that'd be happy to sit and wait for my HT tinkering. I'm all about MAF.

I like this guys attitude! Once you let them vote, everything else goes out the window, haha.
post #445 of 11323
post #446 of 11323
Quote:
Originally Posted by kulims View Post

http://www.jr.com/denon/pe/DNN_AVR1909/

Alternatively:
(Can't post a working link to the receiver for some reason, but it's in stock and available at http://www.amazon.com/gp/homepage.html)
post #447 of 11323
So the $499 pre-order deal at JR is no more? Say it ain't so... I was going to call and place my order tonight.
post #448 of 11323
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyelvis View Post

So the $499 pre-order deal at JR is no more? Say it ain't so... I was going to call and place my order tonight.

it should work, call
post #449 of 11323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amel View Post

it should work, call

Yea, I just called and got the pre-order deal.
thx for the info.
post #450 of 11323
does anyone know when the pre-order price will no longer be offered?
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