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*Official* Denon AVR 1909/789 Thread - Page 259

post #7741 of 11199
5/19/09 at 7:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

not necessarily, it's just a slightly different feature set. we still don't know if the 2 lbs that have been shed will actually translate into lower real power.

the new model adds a couple of cool new features (adjustable Dynamic EQ "strength" is important to me, since I have some "taming the bass" issues on some sources) plus the 4th HDMI input and new video scaler... but you may prefer the greater number of legacy inputs and heavier build of the older unit.

If you are happy with your current 1909/789 there really isn't that much of a compelling reason to upgrade though, nothing "earth shattering" in the new feature set. PLIIz sounds like a silly feature that is totally uninteresting to me.... I'll be more interested once Audyssey DSX (which looks to be far superior) trickles down.

True enough but one thing that I myself REALLY like is the channel(s) in and channel(s) out icons on the 789/1909...The 1910 they seem to have done away with these icons...Actually it is a different display all together it looks like from the pic on the website...The 789/1909 has a distinct advantage in that department...The omission of the XM antenna input (I know they merged but still) is another option dropped...The 1910 is deeper than the 789/1909 but it is also an inch shorter in height...The lesser conversion chip is a drawback and I couldn't agree more with the PLIIz crap...So what happens??? If you wish to have a 7.1 system in the traditional sense you cant if you use PLIIz??? And you also give up the possibility of using zone 2??? Talk about killing 2 birds with 1 stone...

The 4th HDMI would be nice to have for future use for me but at best the max i will ever need is 3 since I don't game...And should I decide to take up gaming I can always just use component (which BTW the 1910 has omitted 1 component input) for my HDTV OTA tuner which will free up another HDMI port...Should I ever go blu that will take the 3rd and final HDMI port...So as you can tell I'm good in the video side of the 789...

No problem with the bass feature...At least for me...TV is the only thing that seems bass heavy and that is only on 1 channel but I had the same issue with my Onkyo...It is a station issue and not an equipment issue from what I can tell...

The 1910 also looks rather 'blah' to me...Just not very impressive looking from what I see...Though the back panel certainly has a 'clean' look to it...But thats what the omission of all the 'S' video ports will do...

Finally it looks like the 1910 use 3/10 of an amp more than the 789/1909...Doesn't sound like much but all the little 'extra' amounts add up you know...

Yes...I have to concede the 789/1909 (same thing for argument sake) is the better of the 2 models hands down...
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post #7742 of 11199
5/19/09 at 9:18pm
I think the 1909 is better also, because I just bought one before the 1910 specs came out.
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post #7743 of 11199
5/19/09 at 10:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post


How is the center channel placed? The physical positioning of the center can have a big effect on dialogue clarity, especially if it's way off-axis of the microphone when you did Audyssey measurements.

how far did you bump it up?


Thank you for your response, bp. I've attached a picture of the speaker placement. I haven't had a chance to rerun Audyssey yet, but do you think the speaker sound waves are bouncing off of the surface of the tv stand and, thus, sounding quieter than expected? Hmmm, except that all other speakers sound loud and clear, just not the center. The center was originally set to +5.5 by Audyssey, I've bumped it up to 10.0 without noticing improvement.
LL
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post #7744 of 11199
5/19/09 at 11:00pm
just a thought, but are you sure the center isn't damaged? try swapping one of the bookshelves in for the center and see how it sounds.
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post #7745 of 11199
5/19/09 at 11:06pm
Splicer, a couple of clarifications:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

The lesser conversion chip is a drawback

actually the 1910 has a SUPERIOR conversion chip. Not saying it matters to you, just pointing out so others following along are clear...

Quote:


and I couldn't agree more with the PLIIz crap...So what happens??? If you wish to have a 7.1 system in the traditional sense you cant if you use PLIIz??? And you also give up the possibility of using zone 2???

There is really no difference in this respect from the 1909 -- the 1909 doesn't allow 7.1 with powered Zone 2 either. The 1909 and 1910 are both "7.1/5.1+2" receivers, the only difference is that the 1910 presents you with an additional option for what to with those two amps.

Both 1909 and 1910 can run 7.1 with Zone 2, you just need a separate amp. Again, both are identical in this respect.

Quote:


No problem with the bass feature...At least for me...TV is the only thing that seems bass heavy and that is only on 1 channel but I had the same issue with my Onkyo...It is a station issue and not an equipment issue from what I can tell...

Yes, for the many people who are totally satisfied with the way Dynamic EQ sounds on their system the new adjustable reference level isn't a big deal. It's something that I would like though, it would be beneficial in my system....

But, yeah, in general there isn't much reason for a current 1909 owner to run out and swap up to the 1910. If you don't need the 4th HDMI, don't need the HDMI>HDMI video scaling, don't care about PLIIz, and don't need the tweakable Dynamic EQ setting, there isn't any other real big draw that I can see.

I'm really curious to see some reviews and see if the weight reduction actually incurs some penalty in power output...

---------------

On a side note, while 1909 > 1910 seems like a fairly minor "evolutionary" change... I have to say that for those in the "entry level" world at the next price level down, the difference between '09 and '10 models is HUUUUGE. The 589/1609 and 689/1709 didn't even have HDMI audio at all... whereas the new 590/1610 has three HDMI, all the decoders, analog>digital video scaling, etc. No fancy doodads like 7.1 or multizone, but the core features are rock solid and should be an awesome option for someone who just needs a solid 5.1 budget receiver with the full Audyssey feature pack. The 590/1610 should be making a huge splash in the entry level wars, which Yamaha, Onkyo, and Pio have really been dominating this year...
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post #7746 of 11199
5/19/09 at 11:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

My money's on the website being incorrect as I also noticed a few other mistakes on the web page spec sheet to include:

the product sheet corroborates the lower weight also:
http://www.usa.denon.com/AVR-1910_Lit513.pdf

I checked the 1610, and it shows reduced weight that is consistent among online specs, product sheet, and manual. For the 1910, the website and product sheet indicate reduced weight. Unfortunately, it really looks like the 1910 manual is the anomalous one....

We shall see though, perhaps you should mention it to the Denon guys as it may be an error in the manual....
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post #7747 of 11199
5/20/09 at 1:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

On a side note, while 1909 > 1910 seems like a fairly minor "evolutionary" change... I have to say that for those in the "entry level" world at the next price level down, the difference between '09 and '10 models is HUUUUGE. The 589/1609 and 789/1709 didn't even have HDMI audio at all... whereas the new 590/1610 has three HDMI, all the decoders, analog>digital video scaling, etc. No fancy doodads like 7.1 or multizone, but the core features are rock solid and should be an awesome option for someone who just needs a solid 5.1 budget receiver with the full Audyssey feature pack. The 590/1610 should be making a huge splash in the entry level wars, which Yamaha, Onkyo, and Pio have really been dominating this year...

Previously I planned to buy an 1909, but since the AVR-1610 perfectly fits my needs (HDMI audio, strong Audyssey feature set, no need for 7.1, no need for video conversion functions), I'm very much set on this model.
When the first user reports come in and no serious problems, Denon has a new AVR-1610 customer.
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post #7748 of 11199
5/20/09 at 3:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Splicer, a couple of clarifications:



actually the 1910 has a SUPERIOR conversion chip. Not saying it matters to you, just pointing out so others following along are clear...

OK...I see that know...I misinterpreted you saying the "lower" ABT chip as being inferior to the faroudja (sp?) chip in the 789/1909...Going back I see that you meant eveb though ABT is lower it is still a superior chip...But you are correct...It really doesn't matter to me as I don't have any analog sources that need scaling...

Thanks for the clarification...
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post #7749 of 11199
5/20/09 at 6:21am
The 1610 has also that tweakable taming bass quick menu?
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post #7750 of 11199
5/20/09 at 7:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stellar View Post

The 1610 has also that tweakable taming bass quick menu?

If you mean the Reference Level Offset setting of the Dynamic EQ feature then the answer is yes (according to the user manual).
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post #7751 of 11199
5/20/09 at 8:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

OK...I see that know...I misinterpreted you saying the "lower" ABT chip as being inferior to the faroudja (sp?) chip in the 789/1909...

I should have clarified in the original post.... When I said the "lower" ABT chip I was differentiating it from the ABT-2010 chip that will be in the 2310CI and higher. So I was thinking in context of next year's models, but I wasn't totally clear about that.

The point was that the 1910 gets a new ABT chip for video processing, but it's not as good as the "higher end" ABT chip that will be in the models above it. But it should still be a decent improvement over the 1909's Faroudja chip, which really struggled with anything other than 480i>p.
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post #7752 of 11199
5/20/09 at 8:16am
Has anyone seen a problem with the 1909 and certain TVs (specifically, mine's a Pioneer 435XDE plasma) where, when switching inputs, the TV will going into standby...?

With the 435XDE, the media receiver box where you plug everything into is separate from the panel. Both the media receiver and the panel go into standby and only physically powering off the panel and back on and then bringing the media receiver box out of standby will get it back.

I'm more inclined to think the 1909 isn't at fault, the TV is getting its knickers in a twist over HDCP handshaking, but would value other opinions.

I have a Foxsat HDR, Media PC and Panasonic DMP-BD35 connected via HDMI. It's not simply switching between those inputs causes it, it can simply be turning on the Foxsat on for example. The Foxsat is a recent purchase and it's more common since then (presumably cos it's HDMI). It wasn't until the 1909 was in the mix that this even started happening.

Please don't anyone mention the cables, I had a blazing row with the person in Richer Sounds cos they wanted to flog me a uber-expensive cable with the Foxsat and I told them where to shove it because the cable didn't matter...
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post #7753 of 11199
5/20/09 at 9:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwlonsdale View Post

I'm more inclined to think the 1909 isn't at fault, the TV is getting its knickers in a twist over HDCP handshaking, but would value other opinions.

I think that's the most likely scenario. How old is that plasma / media box setup? HDCP handshake issues are definitely more likely with a mixture of older gear. Is there possibly a firmware update out their for the media box and/or display?
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post #7754 of 11199
5/20/09 at 10:49am
Guys im inclined to the 1610 because i have speakers that can be bi amplified,
but because it will be played at a low volumes, i dont think that the 1909 will provide a better sound in bi amplification mode.
what you guys think?
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post #7755 of 11199
5/20/09 at 10:49am
Can you reassign the zone 2 preouts to height channels on the new amps?
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post #7756 of 11199
5/20/09 at 11:42am
you mean to get full 9.1? then no, the pre-outs aren't assignable at all, Zone 2 only.

the only assignable thing on the 7.1 models is the SURR.BACK channels, just like before. The only difference is that now you have one additional option (height) for those 6th/7th amps. So the max speaker array in main zone will still be 7.1, but it can be your choice of "5.1 + rears" (normal 7.1 with PLIIx) or "5.1 + heights" (PLIIz).

on the 590/1610 model, there is no Zone 2 at all. you have a pair of pre-outs that can ONLY be assigned to "rear" or "height" to expand to 7.1 total (there are only 5 amps built in)
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post #7757 of 11199
5/20/09 at 11:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stellar View Post

Guys im inclined to the 1610 because i have speakers that can be bi amplified,
but because it will be played at a low volumes, i dont think that the 1909 will provide a better sound in bi amplification mode.
what you guys think?

I think that you shouldn't even factor the bi-amp thing into your decision at all. It's essentially a useless feature and should be the LAST thing you consider in your purchase decision.
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post #7758 of 11199
5/20/09 at 12:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I think that you shouldn't even factor the bi-amp thing into your decision at all. It's essentially a useless feature and should be the LAST thing you consider in your purchase decision.

That's settled, many thanx batpig
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post #7759 of 11199
5/20/09 at 3:03pm
I have finished created a complete Denon AVR device profile with all sorts of goodie commands that anyone who has a Harmony can utilize to copy discretes to their account.

HARMONY USERNAME: batpigworld

It is based on the "AVR 3808CI" device profile in the Harmony database. This google spreadsheet is your reference "bible" for deciphering what all the commands do:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...FOWw7tojK1P6bw

It you want any of the commands added to your account, just let Harmony tech support know which commands you want copied from the "batpigworld" Harmony account and it should (fingers crossed) work.

Please let me know if you find any errors or have any suggestions, and I will update the google spreadsheet. Soon I hope to add a link on my website with some more details. Enjoy!
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post #7760 of 11199
5/20/09 at 3:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

5. (added) Dynamic EQ gets an adjustable reference level offset!

Ouch, just what I need to fix my bassy Dynamic EQ. Oh well, probably not worth the extra money. Since 1909 price will increase quite a lot in Sweden (damn dollar); and then 1910 probably will cost even more. If I don't buy it from USA or something - but no.
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post #7761 of 11199
5/20/09 at 4:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I think that's the most likely scenario. How old is that plasma / media box setup? HDCP handshake issues are definitely more likely with a mixture of older gear. Is there possibly a firmware update out their for the media box and/or display?

It had the latest (and probably final) firmware update a few months ago. I erm... took the lid off the media box to clean the fan (had started to get a bit noisy). That tripped a physical HDCP booby trapped switch inside which only a trip to a TV Doctor of the Pioneer specialist variety could sort out. They updated to the latest firmware at the same time.

The TV's about 5 years old now. Damn thing did it again tonight when I switched inputs from the Foxsat to the Media PC. I wouldn't mind if it was just a case of pressing the power button on the remote, but I have to get off my fat ass and go to the panel and physically power it off and on
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post #7762 of 11199
5/20/09 at 4:58pm
Well since the energy C-series are being phased out I thought I might want to get another pair of C-100's to make for a 7.1 system. I am curiously how much this will effect the output of my other speakers due to of course more power being required.
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post #7763 of 11199
5/20/09 at 5:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glaucous View Post

Ouch, just what I need to fix my bassy Dynamic EQ. Oh well, probably not worth the extra money. Since 1909 price will increase quite a lot in Sweden (damn dollar); and then 1910 probably will cost even more. If I don't buy it from USA or something - but no.

No this is not a new "fix," no reason for "upgradosis." In the Audyssey thread Chris has just confirmed that this feature does nothing more than what Denon owners can already do, it simply reduces the input source level on the AVR.
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post #7764 of 11199
5/20/09 at 5:56pm
I'm wondering if the new 790/1910 will be able to scale 720p to 1080i on HDMI. The 789 missed on 2 counts -- it couldn't scale HDMI to HDMI, and it couldn't do 720p to 1080i even with component to HDMI (specifically noted on page 36 of the 789 manual).

The new 1910 manual makes no mention of such a limitation, though it doesn't specifically state that it is possible either. Or does it? It says "Analog and HDMI: Both analog signals and HDMI signals are converted to the desired HDMI resolution", and one of the output resolution options is 1080i.

As I understand it the new chip is the ABT 1030, and looking at the specs for that chip it again doesn't specifically mention 720p to 1080i, only saying "Accepts 480p/576p/720p/1080i inputs and upscales to 1080p".

(insert your own google search since newbs like me can't post URLs)

Who would want to do such a thing? Some of us have older CRT TV's that either cannot accept 720p, or in my case (Toshiba 65HDX82) does a HORRIBLE job of upscaling 720p to 1080i. This poses a problem with many native 720p games for the PS3, which are dumped down to 480p instead of up to 1080i. If the new receivers can even do a mediocre job of 720p->1080i over HDMI this is a big win for me and I suspect others in a similar situation.
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post #7765 of 11199
5/20/09 at 7:53pm
I'm not sure whether this is a 789 issue or a general Audyssey Dynamic EQ issue, but I figure I'll ask here first, since that's the receiver I have.

Does anyone else have the new True Blood Season 1 Blu-Ray set? I'm playing it using a PS3, so it's taking the DTS-HDMA and sending it out as Multi-Ch PCM obviously. I'm noticing some weird behavior from this mix when I turn on Dynamic EQ though. Some obviously front soundstage stuff is being sent to the rear soundstage, most obviously in the title sequence where all the vocals from the song are coming from the rear. If I turn off Dynamic EQ it's fine and then if I turn Dynamic EQ back on it seems to make it work a bit better.

Maybe it's something to do with my setup or something, but I was just wondering if anyone else had this set and could test and see if they saw the same behavior.
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post #7766 of 11199
5/20/09 at 10:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by de8212 View Post

Send them an email and ask them to add the following to your existing Device (not creat a new device). They may take them form someone else's account but this is what I did.




Dynamic EQ All Off
0000 0070 0000 0032 0080 0040 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0ACE

Dynamic EQ On - Dynamic Volume Off
0000 0070 0000 0032 0080 0040 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0ACE

Dynamic EQ On - Dynamic Volume On
0000 0070 0000 0032 0080 0040 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0ACE

Dynamic Volume - Day
0000 0070 0000 0032 0080 0040 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0ACE

Dynamic Volume - Evening
0000 0070 0000 0032 0080 0040 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0ACE

Dynamic Volume - Midnight
0000 0070 0000 0032 0080 0040 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0010 0010 0030 0010 0ACE

These codes did not work for me when Logitech added them. I've asked them to add the codes from someone else's account. Has anyone had luck getting Logitech to add the above codes and the codes actually working?
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post #7767 of 11199
5/20/09 at 10:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiersch View Post

These codes did not work for me when Logitech added them. I've asked them to add the codes from someone else's account. Has anyone had luck getting Logitech to add the above codes and the codes actually working?

Look under one of batpig post (up 8 post).
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post #7768 of 11199
5/20/09 at 10:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

just a thought, but are you sure the center isn't damaged? try swapping one of the bookshelves in for the center and see how it sounds.


Haven't had a chance tonight to test out your suggestion, bp. Will check tomorrow to see if the center channel is damaged.

On another note, i'm reading about DRC (dynamic range compression)...could the low center volume be related to this?...caused by the sheer nature of full range sound?...so if i turn ON compression in the Dolby Digital Setup (789 manual, pg. 29) then I should expect to hear the center dialogue better because it will reduce the dB range?...but I don't see how this differs from what Dynamic Volume accomplishes.
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post #7769 of 11199
5/20/09 at 10:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JChin View Post

Look under one of batpig post (up 8 post).

I'll try that! I wish they would just add these commands to the general device profile so that all this extra work and hassle wasn't needed and so everyone would be able to access these commands.
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post #7770 of 11199
5/20/09 at 11:47pm
Hi,

I got my new PA-120 today, and I have connected it to my denon 1909 AVR....

I ran Audyssey after I connected the sub, but I don't see a big difference in the sub performance.....

Am I supposed to change some settings on the AVR or the sub?

I set my sub vol to 6 and crossover freq to 80hz before running Audyssey..

Also, is there a good place where I can get good "legs" for my sub in the US? I am guessing I might need to raise the sub b4 I get some good performance

Thanks
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