*Official* Denon AVR 1909/789 Thread - Page 300

Ah, "the path less traveled." And for good reason.

Yes boom is irritating bass.....
Should i switch off Dynamic EQ.
I have already run Audessy.....
Would that dusturb the Audessy setting !!!

LFE+Main

Keep in mind that the Subwoofer Setup setting (LFE or LFE+Main) only makes a difference when the mains are set to LARGE. If the mains are set to SMALL (as they should be), then these settings both produce the same result.

I re run the auto Audessy setup and then as per batpigs set the crossover to 120Hz. The results are good, no more irritating Bass...!! ...

Another thing it has automatically detected fronts as the " Large Speakers"...is it fine...

Moreover i have kept the rear two knobs in the center of My 10" Sub...

Kindly advice anything further i should ...

All of you guys , thanks you have been of great help.....
Hey Hollywood keep runnin in good movies give the receivers a real run for their money....

Thanks

Change the front speakers to SMALL with a crossover of 60hz or 80hz and you should be good to go.

If you guys need to send your receiver back for repairs I would suggest using the TX facility. I got mine back in a week. I was really surprised. Here's the link just in case.

http://www.pyramid-audio.com/howtoship.html

A little more information would be helpful. Your AVR was damaged by a lightning strike ... the HDMI ports specifically becoming inoperable IRRC. What specifically was repaired and was the repair covered under warranty?

Hey, sorry I didn't reply to you sooner (contacting Denon a couple times about my unit, trying a new one, and a little lazy ). I have now started a dedicated thread after having 2 problem units to alert others that I'm thinking others are out there where MultEQ is making things sound different and wrong: Warning for Denon owners: your xx09/x89 AVR may have a major bug

Anyway, no, as I explain there in the directions for checking, you would not switch between PCM (stereo on a DVD) and DD 5.1, as those are 2 different soundtracks. And you would never use any PCM soundtrack to check, since there's no "bitstream" of it. You have to use a single Dolby or DTS track, and then switch between the player decoding that and sending PCM, or sending the raw bitstream. A given, identical soundtrack should sound the same no matter where it's decoded. But with my 2 buggy 1909s, they're not even close (at least in the bass) when MultEQ is enabled.

About my trying a new unit above, I got a new AVR-590 at Best Buy Friday to setup/check and then return, because I just wanted to see one that actually worked right and be totally certain that it wasn't something else specific to my setup (but what could it be?!). I wasn't sure what I was going to hear, and was afraid it wouldn't be right. But like it only took me a couple minutes to find that the refurb was messed up, I discovered almost as quickly that the lowest-end 590 works flawlessly with MultEQ as it should! I was gradual checking it , first made sure bitstream/PCM sounded the same with MultEQ Off (like the 1909s do), then MultEQ enabled (was like, "Wow, they're the same!"), then with Dynamic EQ ("Yep, for sure!!!"). Then later the graph of the output gave absolute evidence of what my ears already told me: bitstream/PCM actually remained the same with MultEQ in use.

Stuff sounds nicer than ever to me with the movie scenes I checked (even compared to PCM with the 1909s, which is pretty close to correct, but still a bit off, IMO). And the most amazing part? I've left Dynamic EQ/Volume On with regular TV stuff, which generated too much rumbling back when I last tried it on the 1909. Now, not a bit (comparatively) -- probably some parts are getting boosted more than they should (mix problem) but never once have I thought, "Wow, that's annoying bass boom."

Why is that? Well, most of the channels I'd ever be on are HD ones, which of course only send out Dolby Digital, even if not 5.1, and what is that? A bitstream! Since the 1909s are screwing up bitstream decoding bigtime, I'd say that's the answer. And also every TV show I've seriously watched (all HD) since getting the 1909 has had its audio ruined!

Amazing that a most basic/core feature seems like a dream to have working correctly at this point. Still waiting to see what will happen next with Denon. It's not my fault that they didn't actually fix the original problem (I don't know if they even lifted a finger to try!), so don't want to be paying any more to ship it back because of their screw-up. It's bad enough I've had a malfunctioning receiver all this time. They need to do whatever to make it right at this point.


Yeah, I don't really mind a refurb either, and it looked fine and pretty much like new -- I mean it was like new, but maybe without the same "shine" to the finish and there was no box for the new Audyssey mic it came with (so now I have 2 of those, remotes, manuals (which I never touch, that's what PDFs are for!), etc.). I lost the box for the mic because it was REALLY stuck to the inside flap on my original box I sent in and didn't get back (was in perfect condition/clean for any future storage/transport/sale).

Yeah, I was concerned about the warranty because the refurb box said 90 days (not 1 year!). When I asked what was up with that, they said: "The warranty of your original unit takes over the refurbished unit." So I assume (hope) the remainder of the original's 2 year warranty would still apply.

I didn't compare the serial numbers, but it has a "Refurbished" sticker on the corner, and a big red R written after the SN.

Just wanted to post about some of the [less obvious] differences I noticed between the 1909 and the 590 I'm trying, in case anyone was wondering about the new models like me (really wondered a few times about the 2310 and its GUI/volume overlay ).

Regarding the less "aggressive" Dynamic EQ boosting I mentioned up there... Yes, the Reference Level Offset thing for DEQ in the new models is at the default 0dB (so it's because of the 1909's bug as I said, not a Reference Level variation). I tried switching between that and 15dB on some regular TV stuff (including music) where I heard some bass (didn't check with movies), and it didn't make as much of a difference as I was expecting, if others were curious about that new parameter. Like I said, this was just some quick basic checking, but it seems there'd still be more difference between Dynamic EQ Off and On with the 15dB Offset, than between 0dB and 15dB Offsets.

I had wondered about that setting but never asked in the Audyssey thread or new model thread, but I was able to see for myself. Unlike the Input Level hack/workaround that can be used on our previous models, it does NOT affect the volume control (e.g. setting -10dB Input Level requires raising volume by 10dB). Much nicer. I've never cared to do the workaround, because I don't want to volume setting to be "off" so much (or at all), going from DVR to PS3, for example.


Next, I couldn't get the HDMI to reliably pass-through in Standby with the 590, no matter what I tried adjusting on the AVR or TV, though it's never been a problem with the 1909 (refurb was OK too). It works initially after putting the receiver in Standby, but when I swap buffers/tuners on the Dish DVR it causes HDMI to resync (with the 1909s also; this started after a Dish software update a couple months ago; doesn't resync when connected directly to the TV ) and then there is no audio from the TV on either DVR buffer until cycling the AVR or TV again...

I wonder if this pass-through would also be problematic on the new upper models with either Anchor Bay chip as well? Maybe they have a different HDMI "pathway" that would allow them to pass-through as well as the 1909? I'd be leery about them now, myself, because I like that feature and have gotten used to it -- without worrying about doing some alternate hookup.


Finally, I noticed that the old Night mode is missing, which is true of all the new models. Maybe I had read this somewhere before and forgot, but I like and use that old-school "dumb" Night mode sometimes to muffle sound to avoid the DEQ boost that comes with the "smart" Dynamic Volume. But then again, that boost was exaggerated by the 1909's bitstream problem...


That's all I can think of right now, but those small details can make a difference for me. Kinda wish we had that Dynamic EQ Offset though.

good to hear that, ultimately, it was just a defective unit. congrats on peace of mind hopefully

Lets see how fast I can get an answer...

I am trying to get VIDEO ONLY while my AUDIO comes from TUNER...This is for a TV show being simulcast on the FM radio...I can't figure for the life how to get the video while listening to the radio...PLEASE FAST HELP NEEDED!!!

Not fast enough...

Guess I listen to the second rate audio from the TV station...

Oh ye of little faith ...

RECOUT - TUNER
Run RCA cable from VCR OUT to your TV/CBL source RCA IN jacks
TV/CBL source Input - change to analog audio source

I had faith...But the program had started by the time you replied...

The only problem I have with your method is I wouldn't have it (the video) in HD...Not to mention I am not sure I follow what you suggested completely...

However all was not lost...The audio (Dolby Digital 5.1) from the OTA TV station turned out to be phenominal and I can't imagine the audio from the radio being able to even equal the TV audio...

Here is what I was watching...It is a HUGE event every year...There should be video of it up soon:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

Didn't realize it was a must start on the hour event or else "foget about it" type of deal. Also thought you were getting a different ("preferred") broadcast over FM vs. the TV which is why you were okay with the stereo input from the TUNER.

Connecting in the method I suggested would still have allowed you to view your video in HD using HDMI in to the 1909.

Simply connect an RCA cable from the VCR OUT jack to the same labeled RCA IN as your HDMI TV/CBL box jacks being used (eg. HDMI3 TV/CBL then use RCA TV/CBL). Then while watching TV take your Denon remote and on the back, press the INPUT MODE button until ANALOG shows on the 1909 front panel display (or else go into the INPUT setup menu and change INPUT MODE to ANALOG there). Press the button (aka "RECOUT") on the front panel until either Zone 2 or REC OUT is shown and using the Source Sel knob select TUNER as the source. And voila! You should be able to listen to the TUNER while watching TV. I tested this on my 2808 first before suggesting it so it should also work on your 1909.

I am aware that this receiver has a zone 2 feature but it only accepts analog inputs. If I wanted to use digital sources could I connect the outdoor speakers to the set of "B" speaker terminals and switch it amongst just A, A+B or just B sets of speakers? I ask because I want music and sometimes TV on the outdoor speakers and both those sources are HDMI (PS3 and cable box). I realize I could only have a single source on both sets of speakers at the same time but this is not a problem because I can only be in one place at a time anyway . In other words I am not concerned so much with having separate sources running at the same time so much as being able to use digital sources on two sets of speakers. Thanks for any help anyone can provide.

That is one way to do it, although keep in mind that A+B would be sharing the same amp. A better configuration if you're only running 5.1 is to plug the outdoor speakers into the SBL and SBR jacks in a Bi-Amp "B" setup.

Is there a way to set the SurrBack speakers as "B" speakers? In other words would I be able to switch from between A, A+B, and B or would it just play on both sets of speakers all the time?

Thats what I am thinking also...

I think you will be fine using the 'B' speaker outputs and "sharing" the same amp(s) simply for the fact that as you said you will primarily only use one or the other at any one time...Besides you won't be missing much even if you did use 'A' & 'B' at the same time...All you will need to do is turn the volume up a little more...Not quite sure how that would work out on the 'A' side though if you are running 5.1 or 7.1...

Depends a bit, perhaps, on the speakers. The A and B speaker terminals are in parallel with each other. So if both sets of speakers are 4 ohms, the amps are seeing a 2 ohm load, theoretically (depending on cabling a bit) and this could cause them to overheat and shut down. If you're not listening too loudly, and your speakers are 8 ohms, I'd expect no problems.

Nothing wrong, IMO, with experimenting. Just be a bit gentle with the volume control and maybe feel the top of the amp from time to tmime to see if it seems to be getting unusually hot.

Yes, there is. Right now, with a 5.1 setup you have AMP ASSIGN set to the default of Zone 2. Change it to "Front B - Biamp" and when you select "A+B" or "B" speakers you send audio to rear surround jacks as well.

Awesome, that will work perfectly for what I need. Thanks for your help.

Correct me if I am wrong here...No no...don't hold back trying to spare my feelings...

If you use the back surround as 'Bi-amp' this means the 'front' mains will also be active at the same time???

Correct. The front "B" speaker jacks will be active.

So in that case then both A & B (the back surround) will be playing at the same time...(hence the 'bi-amp' designation)...without being able to run them independantly...

What I am trying to say/ask is he wants to be able to turn one or the other off and on without affecting the other...ie...patio on living room off or vice versa...While running the back surrounds is certainly plausible why not just use the 'B' speaker out since that is what it is for anyway???

There are three speaker settings, A, B, A+B. The only time the B speakers will be playing is when either B or A+B is selected. As JHaz explained, if you connect directly to the B jacks and use A+B the resistance is cut in half such that the four 8 ohm speakers become 4 ohm speakers. At moderate volumes this should not pose any problems. If he connects to the SBL and SBR jacks (a different amp) then the speakers all remain 8 ohm.

That is understood...But as he also stated he only wants one or the other on and seldom if ever would want both since he can only be in one place at a time...So from how I am interpreting it the 4 ohm load shouldn't be an issue...But then again the Denon should be able to handle a 4ohm load easily enough anyway...

But IF he were to use the BSR & the BSL in a 'Bi-amp' configuration then common sense says the only way the BSL & BSR will be active is if the front L & R mains are active at the same time...Now correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't that defeat what he wants to do???

I don't know...It still seems much easier and simpler to just connect the B speaker jacks and be done with it...I mean I'm sure the engineers considered the ohm drop when the thing was designed...Wouldn't you think???

Well, yeh, maybe that's why those engineers specifically tell you in a footnote on p 11 of your OM to use speakers that are 12-16 Ohms when switching to A+B. Ignore these warnings on pushing the 1909/1910 models and below at your own peril. jd and JHAz are giving sound advice (oops, I punned).

The 2809 apparently can handle A+B
just fine (OM states 8-16 Ohms ) and it wouldn't surprise me if the 2309 was more robust in this capacity as it outputs very well to 4 Ohms.

Well the thing is, the fronts on my 5.1 system in the living room are connected to the A terminals and no speakers are connected to the B terminals. When bi-amping the B and the SurrBacks (outdoor speakers) the same output is going to the outdoor speakers and the non-existant B speakers. So I will only hear the surrback (outdoor speakers) when I set the speaker output to B. What jdsmoothie clarified for me was that you can bi-amp the A or the B speakers (and in this case I would be bi-amping the B). It would be easier to just hook the outdoor speakers to the B terminals but I have an extra amp being unused with the surrbacks so why not use that instead of having to split the power of the A + B amp .