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Bluray Player Audio Support Comparison Chart - Page 16

post #451 of 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by FCEEVIPER View Post

Gentlemen question,

On the chart on the front page of this forum, are the PS3 spec's up to date, even with the recent HD audio firmware v2.30 update?

Yes.

The PS3 can decode every codec and output it via HDMI uncompressed PCM, but unlike most HDMI 1.3 devices, it does NOT have the ability to send either TrueHD or DTS-HD via bitstream. It can bitstream things like the older DTS and Dolby Digital though.
post #452 of 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdraw View Post

Yes.

The PS3 can decode every codec and output it via HDMI uncompressed PCM, but unlike most HDMI 1.3 devices, it does NOT have the ability to send either TrueHD or DTS-HD via bitstream. It can bitstream things like the older DTS and Dolby Digital though.

Kewl, thanks for the 411.

The "bitstream" that you speak of its via the optical cable, right?

post #453 of 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by FCEEVIPER View Post

The "bitstream" that you speak of its via the optical cable, right?

Optical or HDMI. DD and DTS bitstreams are supported both ways.
post #454 of 662
Right, HDMI can carry anything the optical cable can, but not the other way around. If you want to carry anything higher than DTS, you can't use the optical cable anymore.
post #455 of 662
Thanks guys.
post #456 of 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

A couple of the players on the chart listed as complete for dts-MA decoding actually need a firmware update that has been released yet (the Pioneer 51FD and 05FD among them).

You mean "not been released yet" for those Pioneers.
post #457 of 662
Will the Sylvania® NB501SL9 bitstream DTS-HDMA? It's not listed as such on specs. Just DTS-HD
post #458 of 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by laserjock II View Post

Will the Sylvania® NB501SL9 bitstream DTS-HDMA? It's not listed as such on specs. Just DTS-HD

Guess I answered my own question.

Well not sure if it did before the update since I updated the firmware right out of the box but it displays DTS-HD Master on my Onkyo 606.
post #459 of 662
Back in August of 08 the following messages were posted:

#125 | Link
SoundChex
Senior Member

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA, west coast
Posts: 244

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post
A lot of posters to these forums seem to believe that 5.1/7.1 analog outputs from any 'decodes all formats' player will be from the lossless tracks -- even the sub $500 players.

Is there any chart (or website) that identifies which players actually output decoded lossless soundtracks through their 5.1/7.1 analog outputs?

It's obvious that players without internal lossless decoders must simply be decoding to analog 5.1/7.1 that same DD5.1/DTS5.1 track they are running through their SPDIF output. But what about those players that do include internal lossless decoders?

I can't recall seeing any player's user manual which stated unambiguously that a TrueHD or DTS-HD/MA soundtrack could be decoded to the 5.1/7.1 analog outputs. [Though I'm quite ready to believe I missed such a statement...]

Assuming the player is connected to a monitor via hdmi cable, the decoder must resolve conflicting EDIDs from the monitor (2.0 speakers) and the [internally created from user setup] analog output requirements (5.x/6.x/7.x speakers) so as to do a lossless decode as 5.x/6.x/7.x for analog. Maybe for a $1000 player, but it's all much easier to stick with a decode of the DD5.1/DTS5.1 track!

[I hope I'm wrong, so please post any details of actual in-player TrueHD or DTS-HD/MA soundtrack decoding to 5.1/7.1 analog outputs. Thanks!]
Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post
The first post of this thread should be what you're looking for. There are still a couple of errors:

1) Panasonic BD50 can decode all to analog but is limited to 5.1. Right now it's showing orange instead of green.

2) Marantz BD8002 is a Denon 3800 clone and should be identical to the 3800's stats.

3) Pioneer 51FD and 05FD currently does not decode all. It's still waiting on firmware to decode DTS-HD MA.

4) The Panasonic BD10 does not decode DTS-HD MA to analog AFAIK. The green for analog should be changed to orange.

The players that decode all lossless to analog are:

Denon 3800
Marantz BD8002
Panasonic BD50 (5.1 outputs only)

* Denon 3800 . . . Maybe, but I won't spend $2000 for any transport; I'd rather get a cheaper player and a new receiver!

* Marantz BD8002 . . . Maybe, but I won't spend $2000 for any transport; I'd rather get a cheaper player and a new receiver!

* Panasonic BD50 (5.1 outputs only) . . . $700, NOT TRUE! High Res audio decodes through HDMI only; user manual page 17 states:

Enjoying High Bit rate Audio and Video of BD-Video [BD-V]
Regarding High Bit rate Audio
This unit supports high bit rate audio (Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD High Resolution Audio and DTS-HD Master Audio) adopted in BD-Video.
In order to enjoy these audio formats, connect this unit to your amplifier/receiver supporting HDMI Ver. 1.3 using a High Speed HDMI cable (_ 6) and set Audio Priority Preset (_ 27) to Quality.

So, for current players, the price for lossless to analog in-player decoding is $2000.

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More replies followed the above

I am a confused newbie.
I am currently in the market for a blu-ray player in the $400 price range to input audio into my Lexicon MC-12 (non HD) so I will be using the 5.1 analog inputs. I have been trying to interpret the player comparison table regarding what quality of audio is coming out the 5.1 and 7.1 analog outputs.

Can I safely assume a player (such as the Sony 550) with all cells below the DD+ through DTS-HD MA in green and labeled "Complete" and the analog cell in green with 5.1 or 7.1 are capable of playing some form of lossless audio out the analog out. Or are only some of the players thus labeled in the table able to output the good stuff out of the analog outputs?

Thanks Bob
post #460 of 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by wild wild west View Post

Back in August of 08 the following messages were posted:

#125 | Link
SoundChex
Senior Member

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA, west coast
Posts: 244

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post
A lot of posters to these forums seem to believe that 5.1/7.1 analog outputs from any 'decodes all formats' player will be from the lossless tracks -- even the sub $500 players.

Is there any chart (or website) that identifies which players actually output decoded lossless soundtracks through their 5.1/7.1 analog outputs?

It's obvious that players without internal lossless decoders must simply be decoding to analog 5.1/7.1 that same DD5.1/DTS5.1 track they are running through their SPDIF output. But what about those players that do include internal lossless decoders?

I can't recall seeing any player's user manual which stated unambiguously that a TrueHD or DTS-HD/MA soundtrack could be decoded to the 5.1/7.1 analog outputs. [Though I'm quite ready to believe I missed such a statement...]

Assuming the player is connected to a monitor via hdmi cable, the decoder must resolve conflicting EDIDs from the monitor (2.0 speakers) and the [internally created from user setup] analog output requirements (5.x/6.x/7.x speakers) so as to do a lossless decode as 5.x/6.x/7.x for analog. Maybe for a $1000 player, but it's all much easier to stick with a decode of the DD5.1/DTS5.1 track!

[I hope I'm wrong, so please post any details of actual in-player TrueHD or DTS-HD/MA soundtrack decoding to 5.1/7.1 analog outputs. Thanks!]
Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post
The first post of this thread should be what you're looking for. There are still a couple of errors:

1) Panasonic BD50 can decode all to analog but is limited to 5.1. Right now it's showing orange instead of green.

2) Marantz BD8002 is a Denon 3800 clone and should be identical to the 3800's stats.

3) Pioneer 51FD and 05FD currently does not decode all. It's still waiting on firmware to decode DTS-HD MA.

4) The Panasonic BD10 does not decode DTS-HD MA to analog AFAIK. The green for analog should be changed to orange.

The players that decode all lossless to analog are:

Denon 3800
Marantz BD8002
Panasonic BD50 (5.1 outputs only)

* Denon 3800 . . . Maybe, but I won't spend $2000 for any transport; I'd rather get a cheaper player and a new receiver!

* Marantz BD8002 . . . Maybe, but I won't spend $2000 for any transport; I'd rather get a cheaper player and a new receiver!

* Panasonic BD50 (5.1 outputs only) . . . $700, NOT TRUE! High Res audio decodes through HDMI only; user manual page 17 states:

Enjoying High Bit rate Audio and Video of BD-Video [BD-V]
Regarding High Bit rate Audio
This unit supports high bit rate audio (Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD High Resolution Audio and DTS-HD Master Audio) adopted in BD-Video.
In order to enjoy these audio formats, connect this unit to your amplifier/receiver supporting HDMI Ver. 1.3 using a High Speed HDMI cable (_ 6) and set Audio Priority Preset (_ 27) to Quality.

So, for current players, the price for lossless to analog in-player decoding is $2000.

############################################################ ############################################################ ############################################################ #
More replies followed the above

I am a confused newbie.
I am currently in the market for a blu-ray player in the $400 price range to input audio into my Lexicon MC-12 (non HD) so I will be using the 5.1 analog inputs. I have been trying to interpret the player comparison table regarding what quality of audio is coming out the 5.1 and 7.1 analog outputs.

Can I safely assume a player (such as the Sony 550) with all cells below the DD+ through DTS-HD MA in green and labeled "Complete" and the analog cell in green with 5.1 or 7.1 are capable of playing some form of lossless audio out the analog out. Or are only some of the players thus labeled in the table able to output the good stuff out of the analog outputs?

Thanks Bob

You are mistaken. I don't know of any player that decodes and outputs LPCM over HDMI and cannot do the same over the analog output (if they exist). Check the BD50 thread. There's quite a bit of misinformation concerning decoding players.

Panasonic is just one of many Japanese companies that can't write a manual to save their lives. Analog is not a priority for these companies.
post #461 of 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by wild wild west View Post

Can I safely assume a player (such as the Sony 550) with all cells below the DD+ through DTS-HD MA in green and labeled "Complete" and the analog cell in green with 5.1 or 7.1 are capable of playing some form of lossless audio out the analog out. Or are only some of the players thus labeled in the table able to output the good stuff out of the analog outputs?

Not to worry. Players that decode HD formats do so for both HDMI and analog. If the outputs were different, it would require the player to decode two different tracks simultaneously, which is considerably tougher than decoding one for both outputs. The Panasonic BD55 manual is so poorly written that Chris Boylan of Big Picture Big Sound emailed Panasonic engineering in Japan. The reply said the player decodes the same track for both HDMI and analog.
post #462 of 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by wild wild west View Post

Back in August of 08 the following messages were posted:

#125 | Link
SoundChex
Senior Member

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA, west coast
Posts: 244

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post
A lot of posters to these forums seem to believe that 5.1/7.1 analog outputs from any 'decodes all formats' player will be from the lossless tracks -- even the sub $500 players.

Is there any chart (or website) that identifies which players actually output decoded lossless soundtracks through their 5.1/7.1 analog outputs?

It's obvious that players without internal lossless decoders must simply be decoding to analog 5.1/7.1 that same DD5.1/DTS5.1 track they are running through their SPDIF output. But what about those players that do include internal lossless decoders?

I can't recall seeing any player's user manual which stated unambiguously that a TrueHD or DTS-HD/MA soundtrack could be decoded to the 5.1/7.1 analog outputs. [Though I'm quite ready to believe I missed such a statement...]

Assuming the player is connected to a monitor via hdmi cable, the decoder must resolve conflicting EDIDs from the monitor (2.0 speakers) and the [internally created from user setup] analog output requirements (5.x/6.x/7.x speakers) so as to do a lossless decode as 5.x/6.x/7.x for analog. Maybe for a $1000 player, but it's all much easier to stick with a decode of the DD5.1/DTS5.1 track!

[I hope I'm wrong, so please post any details of actual in-player TrueHD or DTS-HD/MA soundtrack decoding to 5.1/7.1 analog outputs. Thanks!]
Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post
The first post of this thread should be what you're looking for. There are still a couple of errors:

1) Panasonic BD50 can decode all to analog but is limited to 5.1. Right now it's showing orange instead of green.

2) Marantz BD8002 is a Denon 3800 clone and should be identical to the 3800's stats.

3) Pioneer 51FD and 05FD currently does not decode all. It's still waiting on firmware to decode DTS-HD MA.

4) The Panasonic BD10 does not decode DTS-HD MA to analog AFAIK. The green for analog should be changed to orange.

The players that decode all lossless to analog are:

Denon 3800
Marantz BD8002
Panasonic BD50 (5.1 outputs only)

* Denon 3800 . . . Maybe, but I won't spend $2000 for any transport; I'd rather get a cheaper player and a new receiver!

* Marantz BD8002 . . . Maybe, but I won't spend $2000 for any transport; I'd rather get a cheaper player and a new receiver!

* Panasonic BD50 (5.1 outputs only) . . . $700, NOT TRUE! High Res audio decodes through HDMI only; user manual page 17 states:

Enjoying High Bit rate Audio and Video of BD-Video [BD-V]
Regarding High Bit rate Audio
This unit supports high bit rate audio (Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD High Resolution Audio and DTS-HD Master Audio) adopted in BD-Video.
In order to enjoy these audio formats, connect this unit to your amplifier/receiver supporting HDMI Ver. 1.3 using a High Speed HDMI cable (_ 6) and set “Audio Priority Preset” (_ 27) to “Quality”.

So, for current players, the price for lossless to analog in-player decoding is $2000.

############################################################ ############################################################ ############################################################ #
More replies followed the above

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyFunBoater View Post

I assume these are your questions in bold?


I am a confused newbie.
I am currently in the market for a blu-ray player in the $400 price range to input audio into my Lexicon MC-12 (non HD) so I will be using the 5.1 analog inputs. I have been trying to interpret the player comparison table regarding what quality of audio is coming out the 5.1 and 7.1 analog outputs.

Can I safely assume a player (such as the Sony 550) with all cells below the DD+ through DTS-HD MA in green and labeled "Complete" and the analog cell in green with 5.1 or 7.1 are capable of playing some form of lossless audio out the analog out. Or are only some of the players thus labeled in the table able to output the good stuff out of the analog outputs?

Thanks Bob

I think I understand your questions at the end, but I'm a little confused why you included a long post from a year ago. That post concludes with a comment that lossless-to-analog players cost $2000. Currently the price adder for a player to have this feature is only about $100.

As far as your question, I think you're asking whether you're reading the table correctly. You have to open the table to read the comments, but here are the embedded definitions:

Decode: Player can decode internally and output as LCPM over HDMI or analog outputs but can NOT bitstream.

Stream: Player can bitstream codec to a compatible (HDMI v1.3) receiver but can NOT decode internally.

Complete: Player can BOTH bitstream raw codec and decode internally.

So you should be looking for a player that has either Decode or Complete in the lossless audio cells.

Is that what you were asking?
post #463 of 662
I know, another month has gone by and I didn't celebrate it in this thread until now. Must be all of the new BRs I've been watching since I joined this party back in December. Truthfully, I was a bit busy work-wise last week.

In any event, the read-only chart is back in sync with the editable chart as of today. I still cannot directly import/export sheets from one GoogleDocs file into another. Oh well. As far as I know, all announced products from CES are now represented on the chart. I may have had a few inadvertent CTRL-C's and CTRL-V's, so please check my work.

Links to both charts should be in my signature below.

Continue to enjoy!

-SUO

BTW, the first post in this thread is essentially gone. The image is not there and the link doesn't point to the "world-editable" version of the chart.
post #464 of 662
Thread Starter 
Should I add it to the first page of the thread?
post #465 of 662
It would be cool if GoogleDocs could generate a jpg or something on-the-fly that could be embedded in the first post. You can definitely create an "HTML clip" and I've saved a sample in the attached file. You could try to directly post this attachment (as an image) in your first post.

I would also change the link you have to the editable chart: http://snurl.com/brpascc-editable

-SUO


LL
post #466 of 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by SUOrangeman View Post

As far as I know, all announced products from CES are now represented on the chart. I may have had a few inadvertent CTRL-C's and CTRL-V's, so please check my work.

Where is the VIZIO player announced at CES?

Woops, nevermind, I see you are talking about a Google Docs version, not the one in the first post here. Nice chart, by the way!
post #467 of 662
A little confused on the chart. It says Max # Channels and has a column for Analog and HDMI. Most have 7.1 listed for the HDMI column, but many have "2.0" listed for the Analog. Even the PS3 has "2.0" listed.

Is this saying that if I were to purchase a PS3 for example, that if my receiver doesn't have HDMI inputs, but rather only has Optical Audio inputs that I won't get 5.1 DD and will only get 2.0 surround sound?
post #468 of 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullqwerty View Post

A little confused on the chart. It says Max # Channels and has a column for Analog and HDMI. Most have 7.1 listed for the HDMI column, but many have "2.0" listed for the Analog. Even the PS3 has "2.0" listed.

Is this saying that if I were to purchase a PS3 for example, that if my receiver doesn't have HDMI inputs, but rather only has Optical Audio inputs that I won't get 5.1 DD and will only get 2.0 surround sound?

No. All players can deliver legacy (lossy) 5.1 audio (DTS and Dolby Digital) via optical or coaxial (whichever is present). And it will sound great due to the higher audio bitrates, even with legacy codecs, generally present on BD vs DVD. The PS3 has an optical output.

But lossless audio is limited to HDMI or multichannel analog.
post #469 of 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdclark View Post

No. All players can deliver legacy (lossy) 5.1 audio (DTS and Dolby Digital) via optical or coaxial (whichever is present). And it will sound great due to the higher audio bitrates, even with legacy codecs, generally present on BD vs DVD. The PS3 has an optical output.

But lossless audio is limited to HDMI or multichannel analog.


Thanks! That's a relief! But now this leads to a new question.

My current situation is that I won't be upgrading my receiver for a number of years probably, and it only does 5.1 DD/DTS and doesn't have HDMI inputs (just optical audio). Is the difference in sound with the lossless audio great enough that it should sway my decision in which Blu-Ray player to buy?
post #470 of 662
Tony It looks like on page 1 that your chart is an excell chart but how do I download it to excell so I can print it out?
post #471 of 662
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by generallee View Post

Tony It looks like on page 1 that your chart is an excell chart but how do I download it to excell so I can print it out?

Just click on the link where the updates are being made in google docs and save it.

Just make sure you click on the "from editable" tab below.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...AyuU50Y6KYs7Qg
post #472 of 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullqwerty View Post

Thanks! That's a relief! But now this leads to a new question.

My current situation is that I won't be upgrading my receiver for a number of years probably, and it only does 5.1 DD/DTS and doesn't have HDMI inputs (just optical audio). Is the difference in sound with the lossless audio great enough that it should sway my decision in which Blu-Ray player to buy?

Opinions vary. Mine is that the differences are subtle, and that there are many other things -- room acoustics, speaker quality, etc. -- that make a much bigger difference, and that can mask the subtle difference between lossy and lossless. Especially since the "core" DTS and DD tracks on BD are usually at a high enough bitrate that many people can't hear a meaningful difference between them and the lossless track.

Further, most BD players with analog support have rudimentary bass management andspeaker setup features -- often less sophisticated than those on even modest AVRs. But since you can't use the receiver's BM (except in rare instances) with the analog inputs, sometimes the tradeoff between analog+poor BM vs lossy+better BM isn't worth paying for.
post #473 of 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullqwerty View Post

Is the difference in sound with the lossless audio great enough that it should sway my decision in which Blu-Ray player to buy?

I agree with rdclark. But, I spent a little extra anyway to get a BD55 because it decodes all formats and has analog outputs. That was a lot cheaper than getting a new receiver. I usually select lossless tracks and use the analog connections. But, when I compare that to optical, I rarely hear much difference in my room on my equipment.
post #474 of 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdclark View Post

Opinions vary. Mine is that the differences are subtle, and that there are many other things -- room acoustics, speaker quality, etc. -- that make a much bigger difference, and that can mask the subtle difference between lossy and lossless. Especially since the "core" DTS and DD tracks on BD are usually at a high enough bitrate that many people can't hear a meaningful difference between them and the lossless track.

Further, most BD players with analog support have rudimentary bass management andspeaker setup features -- often less sophisticated than those on even modest AVRs. But since you can't use the receiver's BM (except in rare instances) with the analog inputs, sometimes the tradeoff between analog+poor BM vs lossy+better BM isn't worth paying for.

Excellent! Thanks! That was really helpful and makes up my mind for me! I'm gonna go for the PS3 then, because I really wanted the media center features as well. Eventually I'll have a new receiver and can take advantage of the new audio codecs then.

I was researching the answer to that for over an hour, but there's so much bias-ness and fanboy-ism to weed through that it's really tough

Thanks again!
post #475 of 662
Thread Starter 
Latest version of the chart (2/11/09) added on post#1. Just let me know if everyone can see it ok...
post #476 of 662
Hi I am looking for a blu-ray player and have narrowed it down to the Sony 550, Panasonic bd55, and Samsung 2550. I wanted to confirm that the Sony BDP-S550 can decode DTS- Master Audio and output over analogue 5.1. Your chart states it can but I have read a lot of conflicting posts on here and other forums and the Sony manual does not state it can. I even called Sony tech support and did not get a difenitive answer on it. Thanks for any help.
post #477 of 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony 123 View Post

Hi I am looking for a blu-ray player and have narrowed it down to the Sony 550, Panasonic bd55, and Samsung 2550. I wanted to confirm that the Sony BDP-S550 can decode DTS- Master Audio and output over analogue 5.1. Your chart states it can but I have read a lot of conflicting posts on here and other forums and the Sony manual does not state it can. I even called Sony tech support and did not get a difenitive answer on it. Thanks for any help.

The chart is correct. All three of those players decode all formats and have multichannel analog outputs. The BD55 is discontinued and hard to find these days. Panasonic has new players due out this spring.

PS: Welcome to the forum. Please don't post the same questions in multiple threads.
post #478 of 662
Thanks for the reply, did the Sony always decode DTS-MA or was a firmware update added to it later on?
post #479 of 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony 123 View Post

Thanks for the reply, did the Sony always decode DTS-MA or was a firmware update added to it later on?

Always. The pre-release information changed a few times, creating confusion about whether dts-MA decoding would be supported. But, it was there from the beginning when the player was released.
post #480 of 662
I just compared a PS3 to my LG BH200. The PS3 decodes DTS-HD MA and the LG will only decode the core DTS. I have a very modest 7.1 system with an Onkyo 674 receiver and a midrange Polk 7.1 setup. I'm sorry,but there was not much difference between the DTS core and the DTS-HD MA. I used the Baraka blu-ray to compare. The PS3 was an impulse buy and now I am wondering if I should just sell it. I was hoping for a more dramatic difference.
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