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DVDO EDGE !! - Page 231

post #6901 of 7060
Quote:
Originally Posted by oryan_dunn View Post

Does the original Edge with the latest firmware have any issues with 240p?
Nope, it works fine. It's only reportedly a problem with the Edge "Green."
post #6902 of 7060
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiodane View Post


1080p24, no problem. I have original edge fed by an oppo bdp80 and it accepts 1080p24 and 1080p60 just fine..
sorry you had so much trouble with it.. seems weird to me.. maybe it is just a defective unit. DVDO's aren't perfect (and are lacking a few basic features that I'd love to have), but for what they are, and their price point, they're still quite fantastic.
..dane

Just about every player, display, etc,. in the last few years has a commodity chip in it just as good and 1080p does not need any processing. Quite fantastic? Quite ordinary.
post #6903 of 7060
Ok, I'm thinking about picking up an original Edge second-hand, and am trying to read through the massive backlog of this thread. What things should I check out to avoid buying a lemon?
post #6904 of 7060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiodane View Post


1080p24, no problem. I have original edge fed by an oppo bdp80 and it accepts 1080p24 and 1080p60 just fine..
sorry you had so much trouble with it.. seems weird to me.. maybe it is just a defective unit. DVDO's aren't perfect (and are lacking a few basic features that I'd love to have), but for what they are, and their price point, they're still quite fantastic.
..dane

Just about every player, display, etc,. in the last few years has a commodity chip in it just as good and 1080p does not need any processing. Quite fantastic? Quite ordinary.

Not many chips to this day de-interlace as well as the ABT chip that is inside the Edge. I'm not saying the Edge is perfect, and the ringing it presents on 240p is terrible (along with the mediocre comb filter); however, for the price it does a great job. Those with CRTs or displays with convergence variances see greater benefit due to the scaling and underscan capabilities. Some folks believe the ABT chip in the original Oppo BDP-83 player (same as the Edge) is better than the current chips in the BDP-93 or even BDP-103. To each their own. smile.gif
post #6905 of 7060
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilPeart View Post

Not many chips to this day de-interlace as well as the ABT chip that is inside the Edge. I'm not saying the Edge is perfect, and the ringing it presents on 240p is terrible (along with the mediocre comb filter); however, for the price it does a great job. Those with CRTs or displays with convergence variances see greater benefit due to the scaling and underscan capabilities. Some folks believe the ABT chip in the original Oppo BDP-83 player (same as the Edge) is better than the current chips in the BDP-93 or even BDP-103. To each their own. smile.gif

Which is why I said "Just about every player, display, etc,. in the last few years". Not talking about odd resolutions (240p), CRT or old displays. I would argue this part however -"Not many chips to this day de-interlace as well". Same with scaling.
post #6906 of 7060
This kind of repetitive negative remark about the Edge in this thread is getting tiresome (I've done a search in this thread on Gary J's posts). It's not so much the remark that HD doesn't need video processing but rather the way it is said repeatedly. We get the message long ago. Maybe you have a grudge against DVDO. In a users' thread we are not here generally to be constantly told that the Edge isn't useful. If just about any player, AVR and display now has excellent vp chips then nobody needs a Lumagen, or Darbee or whatever. Do you go round telling their users too? Try doing the same in an Oppo thread and see what reaction you get.

I particularly find it useful to know for Blu-ray if the source is 23.98 or 24.00 (I was the first to prove the Onkyo 818 has the 24p bug using the Edge), or 1080i50/1080i60 (I was the first to find out the Pioneer 140 converts 50i to 60i), or if the extras are SD or HD or find out what colorspace the AVR is outputting (try to find that info on your AVR isn't easy: I found out the Arcam AVR only outputs RGB). I like other features too.
Edited by Kilian.ca - 1/9/13 at 1:29am
post #6907 of 7060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

In a users' thread we are not here generally to be constantly told that the Edge isn't useful.

From time to time (hardly "constantly") people ask if the Edge would be useful for them. Care to do a search on gratitude meted out for straight answers?

And in case you missed it - "Not talking about odd resolutions (240p), CRT or old displays."
post #6908 of 7060
Killian,

He apparently doesn't get it.

Maybe he owns a display that lets him know exactly what's happening with the input signal (mine doesn't).

Maybe he blindly accepts that that all implementation of video processing in a product works as intended (the chip in my pre-pro doesn't).

I have seen many instances of this. There are Blu-ray players that don't do 4:2:0 to 4:4:4 color conversion correctly. There are receivers that input video levels and output PC levels. The list goes on.

I could go into the advantage of superior scaling vs. the "good enough for Joe six-pack" scaling found in typical cable boxes and satellite receivers, but I'll leave that for another discussion.

Ken Whitcomb

post #6909 of 7060
So, I think I've settled on the original Edge is the model for me, based on the 240p game mode bug in the Green. I've read through the pages from the time the Green was released, and many people were asking if there was anything different in video processing between the two. I never did see much of a definitive answer. It seems the original used the ABT2010 and the Green the ABT2015? Looking at the spec sheets for those, I don't see much of a difference, which makes me wonder why the new model. With the latest firmware on the original Edge, is it a feature match for the Green (other than 240p game mode bug and no front HDMI)? Very interesting how active DVDO was here on AVS back at the beginning of the thread. Would have been nice to see a comparison chart put out by DVDO between the two.
post #6910 of 7060
Quote:
Originally Posted by oryan_dunn View Post

So, I think I've settled on the original Edge is the model for me, based on the 240p game mode bug in the Green. I've read through the pages from the time the Green was released, and many people were asking if there was anything different in video processing between the two. I never did see much of a definitive answer. It seems the original used the ABT2010 and the Green the ABT2015? Looking at the spec sheets for those, I don't see much of a difference, which makes me wonder why the new model. With the latest firmware on the original Edge, is it a feature match for the Green (other than 240p game mode bug and no front HDMI)? Very interesting how active DVDO was here on AVS back at the beginning of the thread. Would have been nice to see a comparison chart put out by DVDO between the two.

My gut feel is the "Green" is a product refresh based on cost reductions and potentially replacing an old design that can no longer be produced with newly available parts so that it CAN be reproduced once more. This happens a lot. Oppo's BDP80 (I think that was the one) is actually a great example of a product that was FINALLY introduced into the market and was very successful and popular but had a substantially short life because a key component that went into the box became no longer available. Other times a cheaper way to do the same thing is introduced (think of when PlayStation came out with their "Slim" model just for one example). Maybe a few minor tweaks to the "feature list" but largely a cost reduction. I think the Edge Green falls into that category.

I actually wasn't aware of the 240p issue in the Green version but not in the original.. I'm glad to know it now though, for the next guy that comes along asking.. smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

Just about every player, display, etc,. in the last few years has a commodity chip in it just as good and 1080p does not need any processing. Quite fantastic? Quite ordinary.

Gary-- your jab is equivalent to the statement, "A Chevy and a Porsche will both get you work in the morning and home in the evening, so a Porsche isn't 'quite fantastic,' rather, it's 'quite ordinary.'" From one perspective, everyone and their mother would have to agree with you. From another perspective, the same statement couldn't be much farther from the truth.

So, from one perspective, sure, the DVDO is pretty ordinary, I agree! Video in, video out. Totally unnecessary. From another perspective, however, it really is quite fantastic. Maybe not for the price point that "Joe" is willing to pay.. But the real question is why more commodity components do NOT use such readily available technology? One answer? -- not everyone needs it! (gets back to the "what does 'Joe' need to be happy?" question) IMO, The video processing available in a DVDO does beat the pants off MANY "commodity" devices out there. Whether or not the end user can NOTICE the improvements, well, is completely subjective.. As they say.. YMMV. And if you've tried an Edge and see absolutely no point in it, then that's fantastic! You've just saved yourself tons of money over the long run.. smile.gif

cheers,
..dane
post #6911 of 7060
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiodane View Post

My gut feel is the "Green" is a product refresh based on cost reductions and potentially replacing an old design that can no longer be produced with newly available parts so that it CAN be reproduced once more. This happens a lot. Oppo's BDP80 (I think that was the one) is actually a great example of a product that was FINALLY introduced into the market and was very successful and popular but had a substantially short life because a key component that went into the box became no longer available. Other times a cheaper way to do the same thing is introduced (think of when PlayStation came out with their "Slim" model just for one example). Maybe a few minor tweaks to the "feature list" but largely a cost reduction. I think the Edge Green falls into that category.
I actually wasn't aware of the 240p issue in the Green version but not in the original.. I'm glad to know it now though, for the next guy that comes along asking.. smile.gif

cheers,
..dane

I hadn't thought of that, but I bet that's what happened. The ABT2010 wasn't available, so the moved to the ABT2015. I also wonder if the 240p bug isn't something that can be corrected via firmware. Perhaps it's something that got baked into the 2015 ASIC with the bug present. There's not been one firmware update since the Green was released. Other than the 240p bug, I'm not sure I've seen reports of anything else that needs fixed on the Green.

It's interesting, though that the ABT2010 isn't marked "Obsolete", but the ABT2015 is.
ABT2010
ABT2015
post #6912 of 7060
Quote:
Originally Posted by oryan_dunn View Post

I hadn't thought of that, but I bet that's what happened. The ABT2010 wasn't available, so the moved to the ABT2015. I also wonder if the 240p bug isn't something that can be corrected via firmware. Perhaps it's something that got baked into the 2015 ASIC with the bug present. There's not been one firmware update since the Green was released. Other than the 240p bug, I'm not sure I've seen reports of anything else that needs fixed on the Green.
It's interesting, though that the ABT2010 isn't marked "Obsolete", but the ABT2015 is.
ABT2010
ABT2015

But 2010 is "not recommended for new designs," which typically means "it's not out of production yet, but it may be soon." :-)

2015 already obsolete, interesting.. Maybe it wasn't as big a seller as they'd hoped.. Or maybe they've already got a better part ready to hit the market..

I admit to not have enough time to keep up with their chipsets.. smile.gif

..dane
post #6913 of 7060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

Just about every player, display, etc,. in the last few years has a commodity chip in it just as good and 1080p does not need any processing. Quite fantastic? Quite ordinary.

Just about zero HD channel airs in proper 1080p ITU709, not to mention various frame rates, PAL/NTSC, horrible 4:2:0 junk pushed out in 10Mbit MPEG2 etc etc.

Anyone believing his run-of-the-mill TV set comes anywhere close to EDGE's frame rate or color space conversion/deint/PREP/etc quality is clearly an utterly clueless person.
post #6914 of 7060
Well said and thanks Ken and T2k!smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post


From time to time (hardly "constantly") people ask if the Edge would be useful for them. Care to do a search on gratitude meted out for straight answers?

And in case you missed it - "Not talking about odd resolutions (240p), CRT or old displays."

It's more like at every opportunity. No I won't waste more time reading your previous repetitive postings. Unfortunately beginners who come here asking for advice and guidance thanked you for replying and were not able to tell your answers are biased and thus might have been put off trying it in the first place.

No I haven't missed it. That isn't necessary, just like your other remarks. There's a lot more than odd resolutions, CRT or old displays, as others have mentioned.

Unfortunately this forum is not actively moderated. So every time you come up with the same old misinformation I'll try to do something about it whenever possible.
Edited by Kilian.ca - 1/10/13 at 12:37am
post #6915 of 7060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post


Unfortunately this forum is not actively moderated. So every time you come up with the same old misinformation I'll try to do something about it whenever possible.

For those wondering how opinion is misinformation confused.gif it would be best to try one on an audition basis. I stand by the opinion most would not see a difference. And certainly nothing you would pay for. Rare exceptions have already been noted. Of course not a popular opinion in this thread so try it yourself.
post #6916 of 7060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

For those wondering how opinion is misinformation confused.gif it would be best to try one on an audition basis. I stand by the opinion most would not see a difference. And certainly nothing you would pay for. Rare exceptions have already been noted. Of course not a popular opinion in this thread so try it yourself.

And so we did and countless other reviewers hence our posts calling your "opinion" plain BS, err, I mean misinformation. :P
post #6917 of 7060

I think everyone would agree saying these two statements:

 

"No, it doesn't make a difference, don't waste your money."

and

"Some find it helpful, some don't. You'll have to try it yourself to be the judge based on your setup (and your eyes) if it is worth your money."

 

convey two completely different thoughts.  It is very easy (and common) for someone with their own (even well-formed) opinions to say the first statement, when it is clearly better to give the second statement instead.  The first statement should be used if and only if direct scientific evidence supports it, and it should be referenced at the same time, such as saying,

 

"No, it doesn't make a difference, don't waste your money. See (link) and (link) and (link) for actual measured data indicating that the product being discussed is snake oil."

 

I don't think the third statement can be made in this thread, as all data supporting the ineffectiveness of the product is anecdotal at best.

 

So, let's use the second statement and that way few(er) people get annoyed..

 

Yet a fourth option exists, which is simply adding a few words to make sure your post is giving opinion, not fact:

 

"It is my opinion that it does not make a difference and that you shouldn't waste your money, but, as they say, YMMV."

 

Lastly, if you don't like the product, you can always stop reading the thread.  :)

 

..dane
 

post #6918 of 7060
This is an interesting graph:
http://camelcamelcamel.com/DVDO-High-Definition-Processor-Connectivity-Solution/product/B001OOZU8I

If you wanted a new Green, missed a good price for a new unit by just a week or so.

It looks line another difference between the Green and original is the Green doesn't have the universal remote.
post #6919 of 7060

FWIW, units go on eBay for much less than that..

post #6920 of 7060
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiodane View Post

FWIW, units go on eBay for much less than that..

Oh, yeah, I know. But eBay isn't listed as a DVDO official supplier tongue.gif

I guess the interesting part was the small drop in price about every 12 hours starting Dec 18th, then the huge jump back up on Jan 1st. You can see it better if you drop to a 1 month window. Amazon pricing can be weird at times.
post #6921 of 7060
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiodane View Post

Lastly, if you don't like the product, you can always stop reading the thread.  smile.gif

Or, you can read (might learn something too) but refrain from posting the same over and over.

+1 to the rest of your post, thanks dane.

So, it's just an opinion, not hard facts, and best to try it for audition. I think we've made significant progress. smile.gif
post #6922 of 7060

The 'Block User' facility is always useful - the one flaw in it is that when someone quotes someone who is on your Ignore list, you still get to see the baloney you are trying so hard to avoid.

post #6923 of 7060
Green was selling for $249 NEW with free shipping during the holidays from AVS.
post #6924 of 7060
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsstester555 View Post

Green was selling for $249 NEW with free shipping during the holidays from AVS.

Wow, half off?
post #6925 of 7060
post #6926 of 7060
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsstester555 View Post

Yup.
http://slickdeals.net/f/5696320-DVDO-Edge-Green-for-249

Does AVS have some sort of email list for deals like this? I know I could just watch slick deals, but you've got to sift through tons of stuff you wouldn't care about.
post #6927 of 7060
Actually, there is a deal-related thread or forum here on AVS. Probably not terribly active and I can't remember where it's located but it's there. It would take more people knowing about it and posting to it to gain usefulnesss.
post #6928 of 7060
A friend recently loaned me the now OOP Japanese Bluray of "Sleepy Hollow" because the AV quality is supposed to be the best of all the releases so far.

I played it via my Oppo 93 and was appalled at the very noticable judder I was seeing that looked like some form of bad standards conversion with frame repeats/drops.

Interestingly, this title is authored at 1080i60 and thus I assumed 3:2 pulldown.

So, I pulled out my DVDO Edge (which I haven't used in a while) hoping to improve the situation by making use of the IVTC facility and was shocked when it looked no better.

I tried all kinds of output from the Oppo: 1080i, 1080p, Source Direct but they all looked about the same. In fact they were worse than just using the Oppo, because the bottom part of the screen was tearing too.

I am at a loss to understand why the Edge was unable to produce a smooth 1080p24 either using IVTC with the 1080i60 or PReP with the 1080p60.

Can anyone comment on what might be happening and particularly why I was getting screen tearing via the Edge?

I achieved almost completely smooth playback via my PC at 60Hz, but pulldown judder with everything else.
post #6929 of 7060
PC sends PC level output at 60.00Hz via HDMI to the same display used for Oppo/the Edge? I'd expect (without knowing specifics) a modern graphics card to have a lot more processing power and possibly smooth things out.

How about Lumagen?

Any chance to rip a short representative clip for us to try out?
post #6930 of 7060
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanD View Post

A friend recently loaned me the now OOP Japanese Bluray of "Sleepy Hollow" because the AV quality is supposed to be the best of all the releases so far.

I played it via my Oppo 93 and was appalled at the very noticable judder I was seeing that looked like some form of bad standards conversion with frame repeats/drops.

Interestingly, this title is authored at 1080i60 and thus I assumed 3:2 pulldown.

So, I pulled out my DVDO Edge (which I haven't used in a while) hoping to improve the situation by making use of the IVTC facility and was shocked when it looked no better.

I tried all kinds of output from the Oppo: 1080i, 1080p, Source Direct but they all looked about the same. In fact they were worse than just using the Oppo, because the bottom part of the screen was tearing too.

I am at a loss to understand why the Edge was unable to produce a smooth 1080p24 either using IVTC with the 1080i60 or PReP with the 1080p60.

Can anyone comment on what might be happening and particularly why I was getting screen tearing via the Edge?

I achieved almost completely smooth playback via my PC at 60Hz, but pulldown judder with everything else.

Make sure you have NOT enabled frame locking and that your display DOES support 24p eg 48hz, 96Hz, 120Hz, 240Hz etc refresh rates. TBH if I were you I'd use 1080p60 as output for a 1080i60 source, not 1080p24.

That being said are you positive the source is OK? Have you ever seen your copy playing fine on anything? Are you sure your friend isn't watching it on some odd projector or something else?
Authoring in 1080i60 something and claiming to be the 'best quality release' sounds more than suspicious to me...
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