New DVDO EDGE !! - Page 77

Edge is based on the ABT2010 chip (see specs on DVDO site). CMS is not in that chip. Unlikely that CMS is even possible in the glue around the ABT2010. Furthermore, DVDO has indicated that Edge would be feature/FW complete upon launch.

While the first part of that may be true, the second part I think has been re-assessed.

Hey since we are talking about the VRS 2010 chip.The new Yamaha RXV 3900 has this chip for Video processing with prep.Does anybody know if they managed to get a lot of the features our EDGE has??

I know that you're just trying to be helpful, but it's probably not a good idea to promise something that you (personally) can't deliver, especially because many people are making purchasing decisions based upon what they read in this thread. Only ABT knows what the next production firmware will fix and/or add compared to the current production firmware. The same can be said about the next public firmware release date.

Mind you, I don't want to rain on the parade...I think the EDGE is an excellent product now.

I finally had the chance to hook up and test an Edge. The display is a 70" Sony SXRD. The source (for this round of testing) is a TiVo S3. All Edge controls are at their factory defaults, and the TiVo is set to pass through the NATIVE signal.

To cut right to the chase, when running the S3 through the Edge, the picture has more noise in it, and it looks softer (not in a good way). Am I doing something wrong here? Is there some setting that I am missing?

Maybe ABT have told the beta testers what's included in the next production release......

D

Do any of ABT's VP's have an adjustable CMS or multipoint grayscale/gamma adjustment feature ?

D

The 3900 has a stripped down version. The Yamaha Z7 has the same chip with more control but still not what is offered in the EDGE

Untrue.

True.

There are a couple of possibilities I can think of. Edge enhancement should be disabled in the display or noise will be accentuated. This means sharpness control at minimum in most cases. Also, be sure EE and detail enhancement are at zero on Edge. Also, black level/contrast needs to be properly calibrated. Black level set too high or over-contrasting can accentuate noise. Finally, many displays will disable their internal noise reduction circuits with 1080p60 input which might explain the difference you are seeing.

When you say "TIVO S3" do you mean the D* HR10-250? If that's the case, you might consider MPEG4 conversion. I know I noticed a significant decrease in noise when I converted.

Edit: I see. It's not a D* box at all.

Follow what cpcat says and a couple things i have noticed also is ,The contrast setting on the edge needs to be lowered slightly for my 60 inch SXRD.I have mine set at -10.But this is also effected by were you have your tv picture settings at,and as you know the SXRD has lots of picture adjustments.I have most set to off of the extra ones.
Also I have left my whole system running all day yesterday to Burn in the edge and give it a decent test on SD and HD.I find the edge improves picture better the more it is used.The problem I had with it changing my input signal from my Motorola cable seems to have stopped.I still have the odd Audio drop out during HD DVD playing but I am hoping a new firmware update will cure that.
Keep reading here and playing with adjustments in small changes and I think you will see the improvement of picture quality ,especially with HD channels.

Your TV must being doing something to the image because it should look the same. I runn all my broadcast sources through my Algolith Flea(to reduce the noise) before going to the EDGE. But if I take the FLEA out, the picture on my Samsung LEd DLP set will have the same noise whether going through the EDGE or going straight to the TV. This is with two Series 3 boxes, one TiVoHD box, one FIOS HD STB, and a VUDU box.

One difference will be the RGB output of Edge. The TiVo S3 outputs YCC which Edge will convert to RGB. My Samsung display reacts quite differently to RGB than it does to YCC. The display contrast and brightness needs to be adjusted differently between the two formats. Once recalibrated, The S3 looks fantastic via Edge.

A quick question. I may use an Edge if I decide to go with an anamorphic lens. I know it is not ideal, but I would probably leave the lens in place at all times.

I know that the Edge will do the necessary vertical stretch to stretch a 16:9 image for use in 1:235.

I don't know, but I am confident that the Edge can squeeze 16:9 image to 4:3 so that the 16:9 image renders properly with the lens in place.

The question is: what if the image (from Directv) is actually 4:3 and output from the DVR in native. Will it be stretched to 16:9 (which i dislike) or can it be squeezed further to then be expanded to 4:3 by the lens?

TIA

Jerry...

With a 16:6 source image and an anamorphic lens in place, the EDGE's (3) image format buttons on the bottom will stretch a 2.35:1 to the full panel height (right most button), and will take a 16:9 full frame image and squeeze it side to side (center button) or restore to normal (left button). 2.35:1 + material can then be tweaked using the V-Zoom control to completely fill the remaining vertical space.

New regarding doing a vertical squeeze on a 4:3 source? The manual V & H zoom controls only extend, they don't squeeze.

My Motorola 6416 box has been forced a couple times from 1080i to 480p output by the EDGE which has been a probem with some on this thread.Now lately it has stayed at 1080i but there is a setting in this 6416 to pick ycc 444 or RGB.I read here that the edge likes RGB.Should I change my 6416 to RGB and would this be part of my issue with the forced output from 1080i to 480p.

Hi Bytehoven,

Thanks for ID'ing the buttons.

I knew about the stretch. The second option of squeezing the 16:9 is what I planned to do for 16:9. It sounds like I need to output 4:3 from the DVR in a mode that is interpreted by the DVDO as 16:9 and then let that get squeezed. I think that the "native, pillar box" setting on the DVR will do that. My small Viewsoninc LCD in my home office does squeeze 4:3 when the DVR is set to 4:3 and the TV is set to 4:3.

The third option is not something I need (at least I hope).

I've always had my moto box set to YCC 444. Have had no complaints with the display thru the Edge, into my crt pj (which requires RGB anyway.) Never set output to RGB, since I also output to my lcd panel from the Moto box.

I've only had the output res changed on the HD box when I reset the Edge (ie, after firmware update.) As long as you don't unplug the Edge, you shouldn't have any problems. (afaik ) OTOH, if you have the Edge on a power strip, and power it down after every use, you may have a problem every time.

i agree- leave it on YCC.

did you say you thought the picture quality improved after letting the edge run for a few hours? i have to say that totally doesn't agree with my understanding of how this box works. i mean maybe things looked better, but it wasn't because the edge was gradually adapting to your system. maybe your TV warmed up, maybe the source material got better, or maybe you just got more used to the thing as time passed, but i have to assume the video processing itself did not change over time.

IF DVDO decided to go down that road, I think it's pretty safe to say that it would be reserved for the VP-series (or something similar). CMS capabilities requires a fair amount of know-how from the installer, and measuring equipment to be of any use. The amount of support needed for the dealer base would be tremendous, and I don't think DVDO would be wise in doing such a thing to the Edge, which is meant to be marketed through non-specialist dealers as well. The Edge is meant to be a plug-n-play product, without too much need for support. CMS could be included in a higher-end product, marketed for installers and enthusiast end-users. But even then, I believe DVDO's dealer base is a lot more varied (certainly larger) than Lumagen's, so I don't find it likely that they will introduce a feature that will create the need for an extensive amount of support.

anybody encountered image tearing in green vertical bars or white dots sometimes?

I was led to this thread by one of my friends who claimed that there was a new device that converted all your video content to 1080p (I think though, he was under the impression that it would actually look like HD quality). I was intrigued, only to find that the price was $800. I knew about video processors, but I had no idea how expensive they were (and I now realize this is apparently a great deal).

I have read through about half of this thread trying to find a layman’s terms answer to a general question about this product: Is this product really that great for a 50 inch (or so) 1080p plasma/LCD owner who basically just watches some combination of television (HDTV/SDTV), movies (DVD/Blu-ray), and plays video games (even the old systems)? Although I am pretty technologically up to speed in most areas, I am admittedly pretty confused when it comes to the more complex side of TVs, and quite frankly, I just can’t understand what all the fuss is about regarding this product (mostly due to my inability to understand the lingo).

If this has already been addressed, I apologize, but I would greatly appreciate it if someone could essentially explain this product and its capabilities in a more basic sense.

Thanks ahead of time.

Yes, spitz - 8 bills is an amazing deal, especially considering the fact that for many users, the Edge will do the same thing as the $3K VP50pro.

Do you need one, or will it help? Your call, really. If you're pretty much happy with what you have, or if your current plasma has excellent onboard processing, you likely won't perceive an 800 dollar improvement.

How can I say that? Simple - people are different. I took my folks out to pickup a 50" plasma yesterday. They chose the 720p Panny because it looked as good or better than the 1080p Panny. They were quite happy putting the $400 dollar savings in their pocket.

I love what the Edge does for me; but I'm feeding it into a crt projector that has no onboard scaling or processing. I need a vp.

What do your dvds look like now? Near BD quality? if so, then you can probably skip the Edge. Again, on my system where the Edge is the only processing, the Edge improves good (high bitrate encoded) dvds to near BD quality, on my 10' wide screen. It also helps immensely on good SD tv broadcasts. But if your plasma already has good onboard processing, you may not think the difference is worthwhile.

If that is the case, then the last feature you might consider is the HDMI switching offered by the Edge....if you need a switcher, than you can view the Edge as a switcher, and figure you are getting the processing as an added low-cost bonus.

Thanks flyingvee, a couple follow-ups:

I would say my BDs look considerably better than DVDs, but isn’t that the case for everyone? Does this thing seriously make DVDs look comparably close to BDs (more so than upconverting DVD players and things of the sort) for someone who is very particular about PQ? And how bad are the onboard processors on most plasmas that the edge seems worthy of 800 bucks?

Let me see if I understand this technology correctly: Right now I am typing on a 24 inch wide-screen Dell monitor at 1920 x 1200 (native). If I drop the resolution to 1680 x 1050, the picture looks much worse (aside from the simple drop in resolution), which from my understanding, is because it is not the native resolution for the monitor. But (in an equivalent 1080p HDTV example), a video processor (edge) would be able to make the screen still look “native” so although the resolution is not as good, it still looks as crisp as it would on a 22 inch monitor (its native res). Is this correct?

And although the switching capabilities are nice, things like my $350 onkyo sr606 with 4 hdmi inputs can usually do the trick there.

So basically, I am just wondering if I am missing something here, or if there really wouldn’t be much difference for me with my 50” Panny PZ80U, Onkyo sr606, DirecTV HD-DVR, and PS3.

Thanks for the help and input.

well - dunno. For me, the improvement is definitely there on dvd. (tho there are many who will disagree, and the real question is the subjectivity of saying that my dvds approach the quality of a bd.) But I'll stand by the statement that average dvds look better, and good ones (Superbit, say) look near-BD. Especially since some BDs look near dvd (first release of 5th Element, or Talledega Nights for instance.)

If you're very particular, I'd think you'd see a difference; tho again, hard telling if it would be worth it to you. DVDO used to have a fairly liberal policy of trial, with return privileges...if that is still in effect, you could see for yourself for the price of return shipping.

as for your native rate argument - your panny already scales to 1080p. (if that is the native res of your panel) - the Edge would simply do a better job; but I don't think your Panny allows you to bypass the onboard scaler, so you would actually have to try and judge for yourself to find out if you would see a justifiable improvement. (since only you can define justifiable )

i wouldn't get too caught up in the PC analogy - even the edge could not make fonts look "crisp" when running at anything other than NR-with-no-overscan. but the edge can probably do a better job than than your PC monitor would.

what i'm hearing is you have have a display of recent vintage (1080p's are pretty new still and since this feature is often found in a manufacturer's higher-end products it is also often accompanied by better-than-average video processing) and you don't need any of the other ancillary features (eg HDMI switching, universal remote etc) the edge has to offer. you just want "wow" factor but are not sure you want to pay $800 for it.

my guess is you won't see $800 worth of wow factor.

if you can't borrow one to evaluate and don't mind the hassle of shipping back merchandise, you can always buy one and give it 30 days to see if it does what you had hoped.

spitz10 - Keep in mind that the Edge introduces ringing whenever it scales, which looks like a TV with the sharpness turned up too high. This is hard to notice on recorded video, but it becomes way more visible when you have sharp, high contrast edges all over the place, like on a typical computer screen. It might bother you. I also have a Dell 1920x1200 monitor, and it uses a different scaling technique that isn't as smooth, but doesn't ring. For a photo comparison of the Dell's scaling vs. the VP50's using an old video game as the source material, see here. I've also heard that Lumagen video processors have some sort of magical scaling that's the best of both, but I haven't seen it in person.

I have a JVC-RS1 and I watch a lot of Dish Net would the Edge work well for me ?

"I'm dreaming of a DVDO Edge Christmas..."