New DVDO EDGE !! - Page 84

Let's try to sort this out. What is on the disc is 8-bit 4:2:0 (DVD, BD, HD-DVD, it doesn't matter). Upsampling the bit-depth does not really get you anything until you start trying to do processing on the image stream. At the point at which you are doing most anything to an integer-based data stream, you want additional bits to mitigate rounding errors that might happen during whatever processing operation is going on. This is especially true for small changes (where the results often round to 1.0) and really big changes.

What is the net result: if you are leaving the controls in your player alone (we'll cover this in a second), then do not worry about "downsampling" on a 10-bit 4:4:4 signal. There is really nothing much there in the incremental bits unless something "funny" is happening in the player.


To calibrate with a VP in the chain, use the test patterns from the VP to calibrate the display's controls. EDGE includes a lot of fairly useful patterns (more than some affordable dedicated signal generators) to do this (e.g., grayscale, color bars, etc.). The goal is to make the display neutral with respect to the EDGE.

Once the link between the VP and the display is calibrated, then the goal is to neutralize the source component with respect to the EDGE. Using the controls on the EDGE or the individual source component, you want to calibrate the inputs for the individual source components to produce a fully-calibrated image on-screen. In other words, if you are displaying an appropriate color bars pattern from a test disc, and you need to change saturation or hue, then change this on either EDGE or the individual component, not on the display itself. Use the display's controls as a last resort.

To summarize:
Step 1: calibrate the display using test patterns from EDGE to make this link "neutral" with respect to color.
Step 2: calibrate each of the individual sources using thei own controls or the controls on the EDGE to make each of these links "neutral" with respect to color.

Important note: if you have a CMS in your display, then calibrate the gamut first, before you do grayscale, color decoding, etc. This will save you from having to chase your tail in some key areas, while also minimizing the amount of signal processing your display is having to do. This is contrary to what a popular thread in the display calibration forum says, but it is what we advise our users who should mostly ignore that thread.

Hope this helps!

Bill

I guess we can talk about the test patterns in the Edge now

BTW, CalMAN v3.2 RC2 has support for these as an option for the source selection. It's still a manual process but we tell you which pattern is needed and how to get to them.

Bear5k, when you say calibrate the gamut, what is it you mean?
Color gamut meaning HD 709, SD 609 or something else?

My Edge will be here next week ( missed today's delivery attempt) and will be calibrating via an i1 display LT and colorfacts on a Sony A3000 SXRD.

Hopefully these patterns have a 0IRE patch and color patches unlike my iScan HD.

Thx, Q

Is the increased granularity of the picture controls in the new firmware enough to make them useful?

For those of you who asked about the cable for doing a firmware update, it is a mini-USB to USB cable. These are often used to connect digital cameras to computers. Here's a photo of the cable.




I was going to post the url, but I'm not allowed to, so here is a coded address
Three w's + DVDO. Com + / edge

Larry@dvdo

Larry...

Just curious, but why did you not have a standard USB port on the Edge? There is plenty of room.

Thanks Bill & Derek! When do you plan to post RC2?

By gamut, I mean the colorspace produced by the display. This is done using a color management system of some sort, with a target being either SMPTE-C, PAL/SECAM or Rec. 709 primary locations. While there are only a few displays available that have a working CMS, they do require a slightly different workflow. While I like the DisplayLT, I do not recommend using it for anything other than grayscale.


Check our support forum for this answer.

What a shame; that 240p mode was what I was hoping for. I feel less bad about not getting a Thanksgiving Edge: my VP50 is still the better gaming processor with its Game Mode 2 for 480i-native games and easily switchable overscan settings for all those crazy old-game screen borders. Although I would really hope that, having developed the 240p feature, they'll introduce it eventually to every model that can run it. Especially the VP50 and Pro, since those models were sold on the feature of upgradeability, but the Edge as well.

My display has a Color Matrix setting. It can be set to Standard or Custom. Custom will let me choose either ITU601 or ITU709 for each resolution (480i, 480p, 1080i, 720p and 1080p).

Is this what you mean by a CMS? If yes, what is the different workflow you mention?

When calibrating, what setting would you suggest I use for each resolution? Currently, the factory defaults are ITU601 for the 480 resolutions, and ITU709 for all the others.

I'm new to this to this, and still struggling to learn, so if you an expert, so if you could make your answer as simple as possible, I would appreciate it Thanks!

LOL!! It's good to hear you like the Edge so much. I just received mine yesterday and already there is a firmware update. It almost makes up for the Onkyo 905 and the Reon fiasco.

But that doesn't explain why there's no change in the image regardless of Edge's output if the Marantz is outputting 480i. Or am I missing something?

I'm assuming you are using a Kuro plasma as the display. In general, to test/fully utilize the Edge or any vp, set the Edge to provide native resolution to the display (or as close as possible). This means 1080p, 768p, or 720p for a digital display and usually 1080i for a CRT HD monitor.

Assuming that, I suspect (based on the comparative performance of my Pio 4280) that the Kuro will provide better deinterlacing with video sources where the Edge will perform slightly better with film sources. Examples of video include 480i/1080i sporting events. Film sources include movies and many TV shows such as CSI, Without a Trace, Las Vegas, etc. etc.

The Kuro will also probably scale slightly better. To see, put up a sharpness test pattern such as that of AVIA and pay attention to vertical black lines. A small white halo along the line indicates ringing artifact (a common artifact of scaling). It's important to disable edge enhancement in the display (and in the Edge) for this test. For the Kuro, this means Enhancer at 2 and sharpness at -15.

The reason you weren't seeing any differences with regular viewing before may have been there weren't any large enough to notice. This can depend on the display size and viewing distance.

I have a bunch of devices with mini USB ports. I must have over a dozen of those cables lying around. They are very common. I know all my Harmony remotes use it, I've had a few cell phones, and digital cameras that use that connection as well. And I think one of my TVs even has a mini USB port on it.

Where is the link (or what is the "coded address") please to the firmware updates in the support section? All I think I can see anywhere are the two in the FAQ section...on MNR and Detail & Edge Enhancement.

Thanks

The firmware isnt on the website yet. Larry said it would be mid week.

What Panny do you have the new 35 and 55 do 10 bit 444. The 30 and 50 did 422??
jimi

I believe that it was inadvertently broken as opposed to "basically dropped". Same end result, but some people might get the wrong impression with the phrasing "basically dropped"--it was not a conscious decision AFAIK.

I'm sure we'll see it again--though as it stands v1.1 doesn't provide retrogamers with a reason to purchase. Yet.

For now, I'll give you a generic answer and I'll check with the engineers for a more specific answer.

Generic answer: Back panel space is always at a premium because the width of the product design is fixed. Saving space = more options for the industrial design.

Sorry about the coded url, but my newbie status prevents me from posting a link to another site.

Look for the firmware update on our site next week.

Larry

No they don't. It's regular 8 bit 444. 10 bit 444 is deep color. Unless you know something I don't?

I tried it and can confirm that PQLS signalling is NOT maintained through the Edge, at least with current firmware. An alternative scheme that does work is to connect your BR player to your SC-0x receiver and have the SC-0x pass through video to the Edge and then on to the display. I actually preferred this configuration with the SC-07 in the middle instead of the Edge, and since the SC-07 passes the video signal untouched, the Edge can still do its thing.

Mike

I ended up cancelling my order of The Edge after an online store botched my order after shipping me a damaged box/unit, only to find out I had to wait a lmost 14 days for them to clear up coverage insurance issues from the courier. I ended up going to an DVDO authorized reseller here in Canada to minimize problems. I expect it to arrive by the end of this week.

Does anyone know if you need Tera-term pro to update the Edge's firmware?

How does it work?

Ok sorry. Wrong about 10 bit I guess but I did know they were 444. . .

could have sworn I had read somewhere that they were 10 bit upsampled. . .

I believe I read a review stating they infact upconvert to deep color. Doesn't mean that's correct information though... I don't know.

hi guys i am interesting in buying dvdoedge
can it do vertical stretch to 2.40/1 video so i can use it with anamorphic lenses and the smx pro curve which i already have?

The Edge when put into service mode acts like a flash drive when you plug it into a PC via the USB port. So all you need to do is remove the old firmware and copy the new one over, takes less than a minute. The only down side is you loose all of your settings so be sure to write them down first.

How do you put it into 'service mode'?

Well guess it did not help for long watched another movie and the blue lines came back. I also got a new issue it drops sound out ALOT just a quick split second blip but every several seconds no fun watching a movie like that.....Well this unit goes back.

Nate

When DVDO releases the 1.1 firmware they said it would have all of the procedures on how to do it.

There is a recessed service button next to the USB port. Use a paperclip to press and hold the button for about 5 seconds. Your PC will show EDGE as mass storage device.