New DVDO EDGE !! - Page 107

Cpcat , you know alot about video processing bro. You also have alot of experience with the Edge and other top processors , like the denon. Ive been reading alot of your posts , and wanted to say thanx for all ur input if it hasnt been said before.


Does the edge do 1080p 24 input to 1080p 60 flawlessly , or is the denon a better choose for that? Heres my dilema , i have a pioneer 141 and even though people say the ADVANCED mode 72 hz is the way to go on this TV, i dont like it. Its not as smooth as using the 3:2 pulldown method on the TV. And it seems that using the 72hz isnt as crisp as it should be.

What do you think i should do , thanx Chris

Sticknstones,
Thanks for the reply; that is a tremendous help.

Ray

For 1080p24 input (from Bluray) Edge does fine. Where the Denon 602ci does a better job is at performing 1080p24 conversion of film sources. Even with most broadcast film sources, including 1080i and 720p ones, the 602ci can create stable and artifact-free 1080p24. It also does it very well with 480i/480p film sources This is the best performance I've seen yet for this particular application.

For Advanced mode on the Pio, it should work best with 1080p24 input so the Pio doesn't have to do the p24 conversion. It should work with 1080p24 output from bluray through the edge. You'll need to turn 1:1 framelock "on" and then 1080p24 from bluray should pass thru the Edge unaltered (even if Edge is set to output 1080p60).

If you simply want to watch film sources at 1080p60, either 602ci or Edge should be equivalent. If you need/want 1080p24 conversion, consider the Denon 602ci.

I probably won't be able to respond to follow-ups on this as I'll be out for a while.

I do have one question that might interest many of the forum readers. I am a bit confused with all the video processors on all the equipment. For example: My Oppo has Faroudja processor, my blu ray player has and HQV processor, my receiver has a Faroudja also, and my projector has an HQV Reon-VX video processor.

What's going on here?

Who is doing the actual processing?

Is my A/V receiver & projector bypassing the signals?

Are they also doing some work? How can I get the best image?

Will I benefit from a DVDO EDGE or other processor etc..????


Thanks

Thank you for the feedback there. It's good to know the other options are there but more sharpness would REALLY help my setup. I hope to find out if the vp30 can do what I need it to until the Edge gets EE added back in for progressive sources. Was your VP50 in game mode and you still got lag? Not cool.

Emilysona,

I don't think the picture quality difference will be that huge between Reon-VX and Edge. It's hardly noticeable. Remember, even a small difference is claimed as day and night here at AVS. I have Edge and its good, but if you already have Reon, then its not worth to spend money on Edge. Just my two cents.

One thing to consider though, allow only processor to scale. Involving more processing, scaling back and forth will only mess up the picture. You can send all the sources to Reon at original (480i/p for DVD) and let the Reon processor in your projector scale it.

I have just posted a PC utility Program for the DVDO Edge at my Web site (www.the-gordons.net). It is capable generating all of the Edge IR codes, Discrete and Remote, as text strings for pasting into remotes. It does this in pronto Hex format. If the PC has connected to it a USB-UIRT IR transmitter it will also directly send the IR codes to the Edge. It generates the codes on the fly algorithmically and not from pattern tables.

If there is enough demand I will build a dll so others can incorporate it into their PC based A/V control systems.

All of the IR codes are covered and when I say discrete I mean just that. E.g. you can set the brightness to any value between -50 and +50 via IR with out stepping through menus. You can set any enumerated value such as Mosquito noise in the same manner.

Questions will be answered (prefer eMail to barry@the-gordons.net). Feedback appreciated, post it here, unless negative at which time send it to me so I can resolve the issue politely. The software is free, built for Windows XP SP2, but should run on Vista with no issues.

Thanks for your response, But all the new AV receivers out there (including mine) have internal processors, some better than others. How can I get a clean 480i/p picture to my projector if the AV receiver is forcefully processing all video signals it receives, then its sent to my projector already scaled. I have looked at my receivers menu to see if there is a way to turn off its internal processor and have it bypass all signals, but can't find a way to do it. That's why I was thinking DVDO EDGE... What's your advice?

Most A/V Receivers do not have a setting "send native signal", so you need to set "native" by yourself...

If you input 480i from your source (source output setting to 480i) and you set your A/V Receiver output to 480i too, the internal videoprocessor normally is doing nothing to the signal...

As soon as you set up a different output signal, i->p will switch on deinterlacer, 480->720 or 1080 will switch on the internal scaler.

This is the way they normally do it...

Best regards

maier2505

If you plan on watching any material that is natively 4:3, I would not let the Reon in the Integra 9.9 touch it. It will stretch and distort any such material. This has been repeatedly brought to the attention of Onkyo/Integra (this happens with all Reon-equipped Onkyo/Integras) and they stubbornly refuse to do anything about it. This is the reason I do not own one. FWIW, I think the EDGE does a better job of upscaling SDDVD than the Reon in my Toshiba HD-DVD.

Nice update and good to know!

Barry,
I used to use one of your programs to update my DVDO vp series. Glad to see you are still here. Your EDGE program ROCKS!!!!! I just downloaded it and poked around for awhile but it looks totally awesome! I plan on dropping the codes into my home theater master mx-900 and then learning them to my Harmony 890 which is my newest remote I like! I sooooo wish there was a way to get hex codes into the 890, but I can live with the work around for now! Once again, many thanks for this program!
Best,
Chris Conklin

I tested a EDGE last night. It does not support HDMI DSD pass-through. Source is a Oppo 980 and AV receiver Onkyo 606. From Oppo to EDGE to 606, the 606 said the audio is PCM 88.2KHz. From Oppo direct to 606, 606 read DSD 2.0, and sounds much better! .

The EDGE firmware is 1.00. I tried update to 1.1 but my PC said can not delete the original 1.00 firmware on the EDGE! I'll try on another PC later, though the 1.1 firmware note does not metion DSD...

regards,

Li On

www.pixelmagicsystems.com

I don't have a receiver in my chain. Is this inherent in the chip itself or in Onkyo's implementation of it? Would the Realta chip do this too? I may be getting a BD player with one, and my path is player-EDGE-display. The equipment I have, though older, gets along pretty well with the EDGE regarding aspect ratios.

I would assume it's the onkyo implementation. my Toshiba XA2 never had a problem with stretching 4:3, but my Samsung BDP-1200 did. Samsung would never fix it, said it was a compatability issue with non Samsung TV's that caused it.

Brian

I'm having an issue where the Edge (new last week) will not accept 480i via HDMI. Am I missing something?

Mine works fine with 480i......

I am having no issue with 480i over HDMI

works for me.

Never mind, my issue. Source device was set to not output 480i.

This was definitely Onkyo's implementation not a limiting problem with the Reon chip.

I purchased the 905 the first week it was on the street... just to have the capabilities of the Reon chip to do my video scaling. Unfortunately Onkyo's implementation of the Reon was quite poor (in most folks opinion). As I have both I can say that the Edge is in My Humble Opinion vastly superior in its scaling capabilities compared to Onkyo's implementation of the Reon chip in the 905.

Hi there - I appreciate the input, but frankly I don't think I follow. Are you suggesting I should set it to pass through the HD material, so that it only upconverts standard TV signals? That still won't resolve the problem that it simply does not enhance the STD TV signal in any way that is better than what my TV does - I've compared the two switching back and forth between the Edge and straight from the cable box (both via HDMI), and I just can't see any difference. Am I understanding you correctly???

Actually, I saw NO improvement to my SD source (a late model Motorola DVR STB) - it looked exactly the same as feeding the STB signal directly to my XBR6. However, as some in this forum have said, the TVs are getting better and better at processing and upconverting, and my TV is about as recent as they come. Also as somebody else here noted, if you calibrate the Edge for the most improvement to the STD signal, it will actually screw up your HD - I had the same experience. I don't know how old your Pioneer is, but I would expect that the newer it is, the more disappointed you are likely to be.

Just my 2 cents' - in the end, seeing is believing

I have an Edge feeding a PRO-111 Kuro plasma. As for LDs and DVDs, my Edge has made a positive difference. I noted in particular the black level improvement. On SDTV there is also improvement, though more subtle. No processor is a miracle worker, so I knew not to expect any. In your setup the case is obviously different.

This is an old web page but this info may work to enter hex codes into a harmony .....here.

I've got a problem with my Edge. This is the first issue I have run into with my Edge. I am still running firmware 1.00 since I have need of the 240p handling.

My issue is using my PS2 to play old PS1 games. I have my PS2 hooked up via component video and optical audio and is outputing over two HDMI cables. Audio only to my receiver and video at 1080p to a 1080p display. It plays PS2 games fine.

I stuck Final Fantasy VIII into my PS2 and it loads fine. I see the Playstation logo from the system and the Square logo. It plays the opening montage (still images with credits and music). The Edge permanently loses the signal on the first menu, the intro cutscene, and the game after the cutscene. I've played with all the obvious settings and couldn't get a picture to come up (sound still works fine). Checking the information menu on the Edge shows it as "no signal." During the loading of the game the Edge has to reacquire the signal a few times. Both component inputs on the Edge behave the same way.

However, I tried an old composite cable for the PS2 and the video works. Once it locks onto the signal it holds onto it throughout loading and the intro screens. The menu, the intro cutscene, and the game displays fine. So what am I doing wrong? Is this a limit to the Edge or what settings do I need to change to fix this? I assume that FFVIII is switching between 480i and 240p but I'm not sure.

Can't you calibrate the Edge separately for each input? This way leave it as pass through for HD devices?
Or do you mean calibrate it for a STB that does both SD and HD, and then when viewing HD on the STB it screws it up?

FFVIII's opening is in 480i. After the opening, the rest of the game is mostly in 240p.

My EDGE is doing basically the same thing with firmware v1.1 build 0.66

I E-mailed DVDO customer service about this problem. They forwarded my E-mail to engineering.

Hopefully, firmware 1.2 will fix all our 240p problems.

Hi Nappy Priest! Okay two different subjects!

1) Std DVD, If you have a player that upconverts and use an HDMI conx to the Edge you will want the Edge to pass that to your display and not do another conversion. If you want the Edge to do the upconvert then you would have your source DVD player do a passthrough to not convert the signal.

If you have a DVD player that does not have a pass-through option then you would need to NOT use an HDMI cable and use component which by default will not convert the signal and pass it to the edge and the edge will convert and pass to your display. Of course if you use the component cable you will also need to add a digital coax for your audio.

I had to do the latter in my situation and run component from my player to my DVDO. The picure looked really bad when both devices were doing a conversion.

2) Satellite box and standard programming. One of the main reasons I bought the DVDO VP20 was to try and make the std program channels look better as the difference between HD and STD was night and day. The result was I too could not tell any difference.

I called Anchor Bay and said I was MAYBE interested in trading my VP20 for the VP50Pro (They have a trade in program gives me a $1000 credit) and I wanted to have better std programming as the VP20 seems to not affect this at all.

Drum roll.........His answer...............
Anchor Bay said that the satellite signals rather than being compressed are actually truncated and that their current technology will not make an appreciable difference. They went on to say however that they have some concepts at work in the lab to address this.

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http://www.listenup.com/Denon+DVP-60...I-p-49889.html

The link above is a video interview with product development manager at Denon talking about their DVP 602ci processor that they claim was intended to address std satellite/cable box programming because that is what most folks are watching till HD conquers all. There is a forum for it and the unit is about $2500.

I hope this helps explain things a bit. I do not claim to be an expert but I do try and understand these things as the investments we make for these products is not trivial and we need to have the right expectations for performance and value or at least I do!!

I have had detailed correspondance with Both Ken and John at Anchor Bay. They never made any suggestion to replace my unit and they themselves admit that they are aware of these audio issues. I suppose it would be prudent for them to work with you and your particukar system to find out why you do not appear to have these issues. My particular processor is VERY sensitive so this audio squawking is amplified in my system. I also found it interesting that I get the same volume of Squawking even when I MUTE my processor. I told Ken at Anchor Bay that I was still within my 30 day return window and therefore needed a commitment from him that they would resolve these issues in the next firmware release and he responded positively, so my fate is in their hands.