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New DVDO EDGE !! - Page 14

post #391 of 6974
8/1/08 at 2:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by VirusKiller View Post

If this is how it works, I have no complaints whatsoever.

Me neither, but it would just be nice if Josh confirmed it? Either way.
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post #392 of 6974
8/1/08 at 2:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Too Tall View Post

Me neither, but it would just be nice if Josh confirmed it? Either way.

I think he has and we just don't like the answer
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post #393 of 6974
8/1/08 at 2:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by choddo2006 View Post

I think he has and we just don't like the answer

You are right! There are no display profiles like on VP50Pro and thus you will have to manually change the output when you want.
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post #394 of 6974
8/1/08 at 2:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by choddo2006 View Post

I think he has and we just don't like the answer

Maybe but it's not been very clear.

It's always been in answer to the auto-switching from 60hz to 24hz based on if it's film content. And I can fully understand why this would NOT be the case.

There's never been a reply specifically to "If the input Hz changes does the output Hz change to match it?". This question had not been answered directly. Not from what I've seen.

I'm guessing this comment from Josh...means it doesn't but clarification would be nice.
Quote:
Once a selection is made all input signals will be converted to the chosen Output Format.
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post #395 of 6974
8/1/08 at 2:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlm10541 View Post

You are right! There are no display profiles like on VP50Pro and thus you will have to manually change the output when you want.

From post #227 - covering the ability to auto select output based on input (including different res/freq on same input) -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh@dvdo View Post

EDGE does not have Display Profiles. If you wanted to change between three given output formats (1080p-24/50/60), you as the user would need to make this change. The easiest way to do this would be to use the discrete IR codes.

Keep in mind that EDGE is NOT a replacement for the VP50PRO, or any VP line products, and it is intended to target a different user.

D
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post #396 of 6974
8/1/08 at 2:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzerxxx View Post

From post #227 - covering the ability to auto select output based on input (including different res/freq on same input)

*If true*, this is my first bit of feedback as a pre-beta customer:

If I have a 50Hz PAL DVD player on input 1, and a 24Hz Blu-Ray player on input 2, I should *not* have to manually change the output when I select an input. This renders auto-selection of inputs not fully automatic. I don't think this should be classified as a "display profile". PAL played at 24Hz is not going to look nice, and Blu-Rays at 50Hz will be pretty lousy too...
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post #397 of 6974
8/1/08 at 2:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlm10541 View Post

You are right! There are no display profiles like on VP50Pro and thus you will have to manually change the output when you want.

As already said in my earlier post, you don't need Display Profiles to support this. I never change Display Profile on my vp50.

The question is more about per-input memories on the EDGE (which it clearly has since you can set brightness etc on a per-input basis) and whether they store a distinct output format for each combination of input/res/freq ... as they do on the VPs.

The comment above from Viruskiller about the scenario where output format is not even dictated by input is more serious. In Europe, 24Hz / 50Hz has become an extremely common signal combination. I'm sure in the US, 24Hz / 60Hz is equally or more prevalent. Would people generally understand they need to change that when things start juddering? Would people that don't know that be interested in the EDGE? Is the market for this kind of between the geek videophile & mass market? Are the only people that would care about this PS3 or Tosh owners? And if so, are they probably going to just connect at 1080p to the TV anyway and not need this product? But then, it acts as a switch too and people don't like the pathetically few HDMI inputs on the back of most popular TVs... could you upsell a market that start out only looking for a $200 switch? It's interesting stuff.
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post #398 of 6974
8/1/08 at 3:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by VirusKiller View Post

*If true*, this is my first bit of feedback as a pre-beta customer:

If I have a 50Hz PAL DVD player on input 1, and a 24Hz Blu-Ray player on input 2, I should *not* have to manually change the output when I select an input. This renders auto-selection of inputs not fully automatic. I don't think this should be classified as a "display profile". PAL played at 24Hz is not going to look nice, and Blu-Rays at 50Hz will be pretty lousy too...

VK

As European user I seconds that feedback. I would speculate that PS3, Blu-ray and HD DVD players are probably a popular device amongst primary Egde target customers. To to start changing res depending on playing a DVD, Blu-ray/HD DVD movie or game will be a pain.

D
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post #399 of 6974
8/1/08 at 3:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by choddo2006 View Post

The question is more about per-input memories on the EDGE (which it clearly has since you can set brightness etc on a per-input basis) and whether they store a distinct output format for each combination of input/res/freq ... as they do on the VPs.

I agree but Josh doesn't appear to have answered this question directly (despite being asked in a number posts on here and direct by email) which is leaving us speculate based on other answers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by choddo2006 View Post

Are the only people that would care about this PS3 or Tosh owners?

This would affect any Blu-ray player owners who also use their player for R2 DVD.

D
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post #400 of 6974
8/1/08 at 3:57am
I think we've clarified what the questions are that need answering definitively.

1) Will the Edge automatically switch output format depending on which physical input is selected? i.e. Can one specify an output format on a per-input memory basis?

e.g. 576p DVD on input 1, 1080p24 Blu-Ray on input 2.

2) Will the Edge automatically switch output format depending on which format is detected on the same physical input? i.e. Are there separate input memories for different input formats on the same physical input?

e.g. 576p50, 1080p24 from a PS3.

We are not asking for profiles for different displays.
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post #401 of 6974
8/1/08 at 3:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by choddo2006 View Post

As already said in my earlier post, you don't need Display Profiles to support this. I never change Display Profile on my vp50.

The question is more about per-input memories on the EDGE (which it clearly has since you can set brightness etc on a per-input basis) and whether they store a distinct output format for each combination of input/res/freq ... as they do on the VPs.

The comment above from Viruskiller about the scenario where output format is not even dictated by input is more serious. In Europe, 24Hz / 50Hz has become an extremely common signal combination. I'm sure in the US, 24Hz / 60Hz is equally or more prevalent. Would people generally understand they need to change that when things start juddering? Would people that don't know that be interested in the EDGE? Is the market for this kind of between the geek & mass market? Are the only people that would care about this PS3 or Tosh owners? And if so, are they probably going to just connect at 1080p to the TV anyway and not need this product? But then, it acts as a switch too and people don't like the pathetically few HDMI inputs on the back of most popular TVs... could you upsell a market that start out only looking for a $200 switch? It's interesting stuff.

I think this is aimed at the new HD consumer who realizes he needs to improve SD sources. He is likely to set at 1080P/60 or whatever the EDID dictates for his display and leave it. Even if he changed to 1080P/24 he may not see the difference.

Videophiles (I hate the word geeks) want and need more so high end processors will continue to be the choice.
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post #402 of 6974
8/1/08 at 4:01am
The only poeple it "won't" effect are people is the US that only watch 60hz inputs. TV, NTSC DVDs, HD-DVD (60hz), Blu-Ray (60hz).

Anyone with either a 50hz (Pal DVD or Pal TV) or 24hz (HD-DVD or Blue-Ray) input device will have to change the output at some point. Or watch stuff at the wrong Hz.
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post #403 of 6974
8/1/08 at 5:01am
Who says other than 24Hz is the wrong Hz? I think 24fps is so over-rated. It was not that long ago that displays could not do it and you never heard anyone complain about motion judder.
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post #404 of 6974
8/1/08 at 5:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh@dvdo View Post

There are discrete codes for outputting 1080p-24 and 1080p-60 (as well as all other default formats) although EDGE will not switch automatically based on the content. This is done so that a typical consumer will not have to deal with a display syncing/resyncing as they are watching a film on broadcast TV with video-based commercials.

Guys this will give you the definitive answer you are looking for.
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post #405 of 6974
8/1/08 at 5:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

Who says other than 24Hz is the wrong Hz? I think 24fps is so over-rated. It was not that long ago that displays could not do it and you never heard anyone complain about motion judder.

Gary J
I totally agree. If the EDGE does as good a job as the VP50Pro (as expected) then the average consumer will be perfectly happy.
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post #406 of 6974
8/1/08 at 5:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlm10541 View Post

Guys this will give you the definitive answer you are looking for.

No it doesn't. Josh was referring to auto-switching of output (1080p24, 1080p60) based on the content (video, film) of a 60Hz input.
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post #407 of 6974
8/1/08 at 5:16am
As 60Hz video changes to 24Hz film the output does not change. You will have to change it manually. If set for 1080P/60 it will stay 1080P/60 until it is manually changed.

As an example BluRay disks are often 60Hz on the menus and switch to 24 Hz on the start of the film. The Edge will not automatically change with this change to the input.

As far as matching different outputs to each input I think the output is fixed regardless of which input is active.
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post #408 of 6974
8/1/08 at 5:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

Who says other than 24Hz is the wrong Hz? I think 24fps is so over-rated. It was not that long ago that displays could not do it and you never heard anyone complain about motion judder.

This is true in the United States where American eyes/brains have been accustommed to telecined film judder for eons; it is not true in Europe.

PAL DVD is speeded up by 4% (24fps x1.04 = 25fps) so it can be displayed without judder at the same frequency (50Hz) as our video material.

With 24Hz output from HD DVD and Blu-Ray players, we are sensitive to telecine judder when we view at 60Hz. Quite simply, we're not conditioned to it.
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post #409 of 6974
8/1/08 at 5:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlm10541 View Post

As 60Hz video changes to 24Hz film the output does not change. You will have to change it manually. If set for 1080P/60 it will stay 1080P/60 until it is manually changed.

Agreed, if there is a change in video/film content within an unchanging 1080p60 input.

Quote:
As an example BluRay disks are often 60Hz on the menus and switch to 24 Hz on the start of the film. The Edge will not automatically change with this change to the input

This is different. The format output from the player changes from 1080p60 to 1080p24. This is different to 60Hz video and 24Hz film content being extracted from a 1080i60 or 1080p60 input.
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post #410 of 6974
8/1/08 at 5:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlm10541 View Post

As 60Hz video changes to 24Hz film the output does not change. You will have to change it manually. If set for 1080P/60 it will stay 1080P/60 until it is manually changed.

As an example BluRay disks are often 60Hz on the menus and switch to 24 Hz on the start of the film. The Edge will not automatically change with this change to the input

True, if the output of the player remains at 60 Hz. However, if the player puts out 60 Hz in the menu, and then changes to 24 Hz _output_ from the player when the film starts, then we want the EDGE to automatically change the output to 24 Hz, and not remain at 60 Hz. Frankly, I refuse to believe that DVDO has designed a scaler incapable of this, and if I'm proven wrong, this will be a MAJOR issue in my opinion. DVDO should not put out a product marketed for the average consumer without the ability to do this. But, I believe that when morning breaks stateside, and Josh gets to the keyboard again, he will confirm if this is the case.

EDIT: Viruskiller got there first... :-)
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post #411 of 6974
8/1/08 at 5:35am
Otto

Even my VP50Pro did not automatically switch. I had to set up profiles for each resolution and set for auto to achieve this.

I would like this as well but I think you will not get the answer you are hoping for.
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post #412 of 6974
8/1/08 at 5:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by VirusKiller View Post

This is true in the United States where American eyes/brains have been accustommed to telecined film judder for eons; it is not true in Europe.

PAL DVD is speeded up by 4% (24fps x1.04 = 25fps) so it can be displayed without judder at the same frequency (50Hz) as our video material.

With 24Hz output from HD DVD and Blu-Ray players, we are sensitive to telecine judder when we view at 60Hz. Quite simply, we're not conditioned to it.

So you want the Edge to be all things to all people at the same price-point? What if I do not have a display that accepts 24Hz or 50Hz? Should I ask for a cheaper version of the Edge without that processing?
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post #413 of 6974
8/1/08 at 5:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlm10541 View Post

Otto

Even my VP50Pro did not automatically switch. I had to set up profiles for each resolution and set for auto to achieve this.

I would like this as well but I think you will not get the answer you are hoping for.

My VP50pro is set to output 1080P24 with 1080P24 content and output 1080P60 for everything else. You adjust these setting in the framerate setting. And it automatically switches the output based on what settings you make in the framerate section.
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post #414 of 6974
8/1/08 at 5:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

So you want the Edge to be all things to all people at the same price-point?

No, that is impossible. What I want is a small feature to remove a considerable inconvenience when using functionality already slated for this product.

Quote:
What if I do not have a display that accepts 24Hz or 50Hz? Should I ask for a cheaper version of the Edge without that processing?

Why not?
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post #415 of 6974
8/1/08 at 5:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

Who says other than 24Hz is the wrong Hz? I think 24fps is so over-rated. It was not that long ago that displays could not do it and you never heard anyone complain about motion judder.

Firstly I never said anything other than 24Hz is wrong. I was saying that if locked to say output 60hz any input other than 60hz (i.e. 24hz or 50hz will be output at the wrong Hz, not it's native rate).

Fair enough, lets forget 24hz for a minute.

We in the UK still have the 60hz to 50hz issue. For my normal viewing I will have it set to 1080p/50hz as my SkyHD, HDD Recorder and Pal DVDs output at 50hz. But it will be annoying when I get juddering if I put on an NTSC DVD (60hz) and the output is still locked to 50hz.

I had an old Quadscan back 8 years ago. You just set the Res i.e. 720p and it then output 50hz for Pal and 60hz for NTSC, the input freq was the output freq. I don't think it's that much to ask, but if it is set then I hope the Edges 60hz to 50hz conversion will be good.
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post #416 of 6974
8/1/08 at 6:02am
I think an entry level product should be pretty much plug'n'play for most typical systems, leaving advanced configurations to the more expensive VPs.

As long as it outputs an assigned output format depending on what is being input, then it's doing the plug'n'play element.
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post #417 of 6974
8/1/08 at 6:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlm10541 View Post

Otto

Even my VP50Pro did not automatically switch. I had to set up profiles for each resolution and set for auto to achieve this.

I would like this as well but I think you will not get the answer you are hoping for.

I don't understand this. As I said before, I do this all the time and have never used display profiles to do it. The only thing I've ever used display profiles for is;

1. catering for xbox360 60 Hz input for games (output should be 60) and HD DVDs (output should be multiple of 24)

2. catering for R1 DVDs with video content (output should be 60) or film content (outut should be multiple of 24) - I still do this from time to time but rarely enough that I haven't recreated my display profile for 60 in 60 out since the last firmware update.


In other words; both content based decisions where the input signal does not change. For situations where the input signal does change (DVD player changing from 480i/60 to 576i/50) - the vp50 just uses whatever output format was last chosen when that combination of input/res/freq was active, even if you've never saved a single display profile.

I think you've been using profiles when you didn't need to.
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post #418 of 6974
8/1/08 at 6:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

What if I do not have a display that accepts 24Hz or 50Hz? Should I ask for a cheaper version of the Edge without that processing?

This is like me saying, well I don't have any equipment that needs an analogue connection (mine ared all HDMI) so can I have a cheaper version that doesn't had analogue to digital processing for a lower price. It's not going to happen and it's not what we're saying or asking for. We're asking for clarification.

I think this is getting a bit silly and people are getting defensive for no real reason.

No one is saying "IT HAS TO HAVE THIS OR ELSE". We in the UK have this 50hz/60hz issue and want to know if it will be an issue or not for us. That's all. We are voicing our conserns about what "maybe" a missing feature that to us would be a big plus. We are explaining what the issue is to help the question be answered.

Sorry if this comes across as complaining to those it doesn't effect.
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post #419 of 6974
8/1/08 at 6:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by VirusKiller View Post

Why not?

Quite simply because the price of multiple versions would not be $799US anymore. The only way it could happen is the anticipation of sufficient demand to justify producing it.
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post #420 of 6974
8/1/08 at 6:24am
Choddo

Yes it did remember the last output but that created problems for me. However this is for another thread
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