Official Harman/Kardon AVR x54: Problems and Solutions Thread - Page 3

OK, to make matters worse, I picked up Shine a Light yesterday on Blu-Ray.

5 dropouts in the first 10 minutes, some were nearly 1 minute long. It seems to me that the drops occurred when the background music stopped playing and it was only voice. I tried both the DTS-HD and DD-HD tracks.

I am hoping that HK has better performance than the history shared in the thread, if not I'm jumping ship. Any recommendations?

Shawn

Jumping ship to what? Is there an alternative to AVR x254 with regards to price/quality/design? I'm looking to get an x254 but with all these problems and no response from H/K I'm not so sure.

That is what I am looking for too, I'm really not sure what is comparable to the 254/354!

I really want to keep this receiver but with only 30 days to return I am quickly running out of time. Shine a Light is completely unwatchable at the beginning...now when the concert starts sound is great...if you like the Stones.

Shawn

I have the 254 and the PS3 setup in my basement HT room, using a 92" screen. The only problem I have has been a HDMI handshake issue from time to time, when it pause mode with the PS3 via game, but haven't tried a movie yet. But this was an issue with 3 other AVRs, (Different manufactures) that I had as well.

trondah: Take your pick, Pioneer/Pioneer Elite/Onkyo/Denon/Yamaha they all have there fare share of problems. Once again the HDMI standard keeps on flipping changing or there really isn't a standard so it seems!

Typhus: never had any audio dropouts using the PS3 and 254 yet....

Garman- Have you tried "There will be Blood" (Somewhere around 30 minutes in; when Daniel Plainview is talking to the family about buying their land) or the new one to test is "Shine a Light" (3:20 and 6:30 are the times I remember but there are 5 dropouts in the first 10 minutes). I am assuming you are connected via HDMI from the PS3 to the 254. If you do not hear the issues it would be great to know as there may be hope that it is only certain SKU's.

Are you hearing all the sounds at the XMB? Clicking which is a silly problem but we all thought it may be leading to something more.

Shawn

I'm sorry, but I purchased the Pioneer 1018 to compare with the 254, and I haven't noticed a single issue with HDMI. Not a single problem. Even the XMB bar clicks as it should. It might have other issues, but at least Pioneer managed to get their HDMI implementation to work flawlessly.

Why can't HK do the same? Why can't the test their product before it's released? It took me about 2 hours to notice the problem, setup of the receiver included! They have to have been aware of the problem when they released it. Like the fan noise, it's impossible to miss...

I had a Pioneer Elite 84/94 and 92, all had handshake issues, not saying Pioneer is bad but they all have there fair share of problems. I had to take my 84 to have it updated 2 hours away but at least it worked better, but never flawless. I am looking at the new Pioneer Elite Receivers and most likely will buy one soon, but HK just rolled these out, so it seems like some of them do have issues, what elses is new. Fan noise? None here, I say sent it or take it back and keep the Pioneer. Simple!

Also don't get me stated about Onkyo 805 that fried out after having it for a month, so far my 705 upstairs is holding out, but that has HDMI issues as well, some times it doesn't see the signal properly and I have to turn the unit on and off again and then it is fine. You won't see me bitching about Onkyo 805 in the Onkyo forum, because I just sent it back and went with the 254 for a Temp AVR, till I decided on one of the Pioneer Elites or a Pre/Pro. If anyone is having any major issues with the HK line, send it or take it back and try some thing else. To me the HK sounds better then any of the Pioneers I have owned, but I haven't tried the newer ICE Amp AVRs yet.

And this is why I am hanging on to my HK receiver. If the Pioneer sounded as good as the HK, it would be a no brainer, and the HK would already be back at the store...

Hey Jay, I thought today was the day you were gonna call your HK rep and give him a howler... Any news on that?

Pioneer 1018, Denon 1909, Onkyo 606 to name a few, based on specs alone (though the 1909 doesn't have pre-outs). I haven't tasted the HK SQ kool-aid, so I can't comment there. I was practically set on joining the HK party until these issues started popping up. Now with the special prices on the 1909 and 1018, I'm at the point where I have to make up my mind.

Mine is a 60GB launch PS3, although I returned my 254 at the moment until I see the firmware update.

I'm not going against this initiative, but just as a sidenote, I believe there has been more evidence raised to indicate that the PCM locking issue is not PS3 specific but HK specific. The owner's thread included several postings with each indicating the 'delay' symptom from different products including PCs, HD Tivo, etc. There is still a possibility that this issue is not HK's fault, but there is more evidence in favour that it is.

On another note, I do believe there are alternatives besides the 254 and I wouldn't say that their share of problems are anywhere near on the same level as the 254/354. I had picked up a Pio 918 (I know its not the 1018), just to check the sound quality vs the HK and I couldn't do it. I couldn't compromise THAT much difference (IMO) to settle the headaches. On the plus side, I gained renewed respect for my old Yammy, which IMO sounds pretty darn close to the HK. The difference I found was at high levels, the Yammy would break up more where the HK kept its 'smooth' sound in better shape than the Yammy. I'm currently looking in to the Yammy 663/HTR 6160 and may give it a test drive. I'm only pushing some Polk RM10's at home so my experience may be limited compared to other's more sophisticated speaker set-up.

I agree, plus fan noise is somewhat subjective. I didn't notice the fan on my 354 until I read about it here and got up close. That isn't to say that it wont get louder later on (as they tend to do), but (assuming it is a 12vdc) it is replaceable easily enough. Some may feel differently, esp depending on the degree of noise.

Unless the fan is proprietary, I wouldn't see that as a reason for me to return it. The PCM deal, however, would be.

realjeep

I personally love the combination of the polk RM speakers with my old rx-v657. I'm not sure I would even have been shopping for the HK unless I had upgraded to some RTis.

I will also be looking at alternatives to the 357. Based on the discussion, it looks like nobody makes a *perfect* reciever, and the HK sound quality + sync bugs may end up outweighing that of other brands.

realjeep

That's funny, I was just thinking of upgrading to a set of the RTis in the near future. How happy are you with them?

Well, I just got my 254 all set up (had the 247 previously)... and of course, an issue.

AVR 254 says incoming source video (from PS3) as 1080p/24.
AVR 254 says outgoing video to TV at 1080. You can scroll over to see the greyed out option of 1080p/24 but you cannot select it.
Oh, and the TV confirms that the received signal is 1080p/60, not 1080p/24.

Any ideas why I cannot select 1080p/24?

Hope someone has an idea!

Thanks in advance.

I returned my 354 for the PS3 PCM problems and others I'll list in the owner's thread. I'm going back to one of my non-HDMI AVRs. I don't think uncompressed BR audio is worth the HDMI hassles.
Mark

I'm with you. My old 110 HK with optical still sounds pretty good and works finr with my PS3. As i want to stick with HK I'll wait for them to iron out the bugs before I buy. I'm in no hurry

Yeah, I never considered that until now, but I may end up returning both the HK 254 an the Pioneer 1018, until the 254 bugs are ironed out, and go back to my old receiver (it's crap, but it still works). I don't think I am ready to compromise, I want the HK sound now that I tasted it!

Well, I returned my 254 today also. I got it at Fry's almost 3 weeks ago. Had no problems returning it; got a full refund. I specifically told them it was defective, so they should send it back to HK. Just thought if HK had to absorb the cost of handling many returned defective AVR's, maybe it would encourage them to test their products before release as well as treat their customers a little better. I did try to email support from their site, asking about the PCM sync issue. They didn't even bother to reply, so I guess they don't need me as a customer of their products. I did like the sound, especially after trying a 1018, the HK was significantly better sounding to me than the 1018. But I don't want to be in the same position as the 247/347 owners. I tried a 247 last year and immediately noticed the PCM sync problem, using coax/optical SPDIF on both a cable box and HTPC.

I picked up a Denon 1909 a couple days ago, will probably try it tonight. I think it's over priced for an AVR without pre-outs, but if it sounds good and works without annoying glitches, I can probably live with it.

HK AVR-354
PS3 60g original. Model CECHA01. Auto audio setup so everything is checked.

Haven't had problems with bluray yet (don't watch movies very often).

MGS4
1)Absent dialogue and very muted background noise during cut scene. Cycled surround modes and it fixed.
2) Getting a call no dialouge but full background noise. In stereo it works but anything other than stereo it is absent no matter what I do.

GTA4
1) Logic 7 movie mode is all I can get when it should say multi channel.
2) In a car no dialouge when making/recieveing cell phone calls. Out of car I can here only Niko's side of the conversation. No way to get it to work properly.

NCAA 09
1) TV Announcers voice missing. Cycled surround modes and it fixed it.

General
1) No click noise on XMB
2) only get very end of the last tone of the three for the playstation sound when game starts.
3) Haven't come across any issue with pausing causing problems.

I have not tried in bitstream since I'm more concerned with what doesn't work as opposed to what does.

I had the exact same problem with my Samsung BD-P1500 blu-ray player. The 254 showed that 1080p24 was being input, but the selection to output 1080p24 was not selectable(a.k.a. grayed out).

Jay, thank you so much for doing all this. I really appreciate that someone - with the right connections in addition to that - is willing to take initiatives to shake things up. I, like you, do not want to give up. I email HK tech support every day, even though they give me vague answers everytime. Keep up the good work!

Hmmm... you might be onto something here. You sure you don't wanna quit your job at BB and go work for HK?

But seriously, it would make sense. I also read many posts from people complaining about very low center channel volume. I had to increase the volume on mine quite a bit in the manual speaker setup, after running their automatic calibration. Also, I did notice that, depending on the surround mode selected, the center speaker was unusually low in some movies (with Logic 7 of course...).

I'm convinced the issue is with the center channel as well, but like I originally said, I have no freakin clue when it comes to audio. Well the sound dropping issue I think is the center channel, no clue on the reason why I lose multi-ch pcm randomly.

I decided I would take a break and try to test more games. I tried out skate for a minute or two to see if the little voice over guy played correctly and he did. He seems to play through the surround since he is behind you though. The PS3 told me there was a firmware update so I DLd it. Think previous was 2.42 and new is 2.43.

Bear with me since this doesn't make any sense to me and is 1 part letting you guys know and 1 part documenting my findings since I'll completely forget what I tried in 30min.

Post patch I only tried out MGS4 since it's late and that had the easiest thing to test. I have a save game that is maybe 10 seconds from a midlevel loadpoint. The plus is that when you get through that loadpoint you also get a call on the codex or whatever it is.

My previous results under 2.42:
Game ran perfectly, maintained multi-ch pcm the entire time. Codex played the intro static noise and then no sound at all except for ambient noises. Could put it in what I think is stereo mode and it would play the voices/dialogue/conversation. Nothing had any effect on this situation be it loading, pausing, etc. Completely repeatable.

Under 2.43:
Game loads fine and runs everything up to the point of actually playing my save game as multi-ch pcm. When my game actually starts (after hitting start from the load screen) it goes into logic 7 movie. Can't get it out of logic 7 movie without actually picking dolby or one of the other modes from audio menu of the avr. When I go back to auto it picks logic7 movie.

When I get to the midlevel loadpoint and the ensuing call on the codex is when it gets strange. This is the exact same loadpoint anmd call previously run through multiple times since I don't want to progress in the game with defunct audio.

Tried exiting the game and restarting, load save game, go for it, 6 times or so to try and figure out what I had done/it had done but it's not completely repeatable.

Every time I get out of the midlevel load point it is still stuck on logic7 movie. That part is repeatable.

When i get the call on the codex, however, 2 of the 6 times it switched to multi-ch pcm and actually played the codex voices. It stayed in mutli-ch pcm until I exited the game for more testing (1 or 2 minutes). Under 2.42 voices were completley missing in mutli-ch pcm.

3 of the 6 times it stayed in logic7 movie and there were no voices/dialogue when I got the call on the codex. During and after the call I was still stuck in logic 7 movie.

1 of the 6 times (also the last since I was frustrated and tired), it stayed in logic 7 movie and the voices were missing when I got the call. Being "at that point" and having a machine gun I decided to start shooting... it switched to multi-ch pcm instantly..... Like a moron I didn't think to try the codex before shutting down. Decided I was done for the night and needed to post the results of my testing.

Hope that makes some sort of sense to someone.

I will do some more testing tomorrow night and post if I get any different results. Will start blasting away with the moddified m4 a little more often to see exactly what effect that has on it pre and post midlevel load and codex call. Might try starting a new game as well to see what it does. Also test the cell on GTA4 post patch and the announcers on ncaa. Might not return the 354 until sunday so I can sit down saturday and give each of the games I have a quick test run.

Oh, am I supposed to be getting 7.1 through the multichannel pcm? I coulda sworn all my little speakers were lit up prior to 2.43 but I might be wrong. Post patch I am deffinatley only getting 5.1 little speakers lit up on the display.

I'm inclined to think that logic7 is similar to the video effects and is always on, also always mucking stuff up.

Had to have my post checked out by a mod? Thought it was there a second ago. Oh well. Will post it again (possibly for a the third time) if it isn't through tomorrow.