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The Official Pioneer 9G Kuro Settings/Issues Thread - Page 3

post #61 of 10767
I guess I'm a bit more experienced with interpreting people's sentences because of my background. You see, I'm chinese, though I was born here in the states, and my parents (and a lot of my relatives) speak english like the stereotypical chinese.

Yes, all sorts of hilarity ensued at family gatherings when they tried to converse with me. Thus, my experience interpretation.
post #62 of 10767
gus738:

Hey dropping that coin on a TV/FD111 and hoping you got it right with the break-in DVD is a bit concerning. I have been lurking hear a lot lately and I hope to figure things out with asking to many questions. I had the screen size at Full and was getting a 4x3 picture, I just played with the remote some and got the Full size to go to wide screen, like I thought it should for break-in. I have never owned a widescreen TV before, what an awesome thing, officially hooked and learning. Thanks. I am running an Oppo 983H which just looks WOW for SD video. Waiting 150 hours is going to be interesting.
post #63 of 10767
Has anyone seen the green ghosting with the 9G Kuros? I was able to clearly see green ghosting with my old Panny TH-42PZ700U and it was very distracting.
post #64 of 10767
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gus738 View Post

D-nice i would like to know why the change in settings when someone choose to either not break in the tv or break in the tv.?

and if you can explain in regards to the confusing settings that change or dont change? im honestly lost in regards to it.

I'm not sure why it's confusing. There are major shifts in the grayscale during the first 150 hours of use. If one chooses not to exclusively use the break-in DVD for the first 150 hours of use (or at least the majority of it), they need settings to use right out of the box, right? You can't just use post 150 hours of use settings on the 9G Kuros like you could on the 8Gs.

Also, I cannot guarantee the settings that are labeled "Break-in DVD/Thumbdrive Owners ONLY!!!!!!! ONLY use these settings after the 150 hour break-in period!!!!!!!!!" will render a proper grayscale for those who choose not to use the break-in DVD during the first 150 hours of use. I can guarantee that for those who actually use the recommended process.
post #65 of 10767
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

So it would be safe to say just leave the orbitor set to mode2 all of the time correct?

Yes
post #66 of 10767
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gus738 View Post

hey D-nice theirs been some talk on the 9g non elite (not sure about the elite) in regards to gaming and its lag wtf?

basicly what i gatherd is that when you go into game mode and put it on that you have virtual no lag ms so its intresting to know if theirs an issue or if only a few members are really eye cathers or sensitive?

i never heard any complaints in the 8g owners in regards to gaming on pioneers so im hoping that theirs no change in the processing etc etc

but i do know that its not as bad as lcd lol so its not a deal breaker but more of a curiasity.

it started here i belive

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...8&postcount=58

a lil bit here

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post14387310

also with this being said as you kindly look at it what would you still recommend in what a/v mode in gaming?

i have gone from a crt (see my sig) to my 42" panasonic th-42px75u and i expereince no issues, i'v used componet to hdmi from 720p to 1080p again no issues as such

I'm not a gamer, so I would be the last person ask regarding game lag
post #67 of 10767
Sorry for the additional post, I don't mean to clutter up the thread, but you can see some examples of the green ghosts ("plasma trails") here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSqWOW1cOYY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVw_VvFcV1U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kyllx3VaI8

So has anyone seen this effect with their 9G Kuros? It's most obviously evident in Gears of War because that game has a very desaturated color palette, so if any of you have a chance could you maybe run this test if you own Xbox 360 and 9G Kuro? Thanks.
post #68 of 10767
Thank you D-Nice!

I took the pictures with my iPhone so it's not the best but it shows how good the D65 with break-in settings are vs standard mode.

post #69 of 10767
Looks great, Marv! Yeah, standard really makes little rachel look incredibly tan!
post #70 of 10767
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvguitar View Post

Thank you D-Nice!

I took the pictures with my iPhone so it's not the best but it shows how good the D65 with break-in settings are vs standard mode.


Those pictures should go in the CS1 vs. CS2 thread. Standard is CS1 (and reference is CS2)
post #71 of 10767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aetherhole View Post

Alright, I've tested the new reference settings on my 151 and they indeed look even look more like I expect they should. One of my original comments about D-Nice's settings were that they had a very green hue to them, and sure enough, after I set the new settings up and swapped back and forth with the 'Tool' button, it kind of confirmed what I saw.

Mind you, I set D-Nice's original settings to my set which had already completed my break-in process. These "After Break-In" settings look better to my eyes even though I didn't follow the Break-In process to a 'T'.

That is virtually identical to my experience. Though these settings may not be completely accurate since I didn't follow the break-in procedure to a T, they look VERY GOOD (and I think more like Aetherhole's settings than D-Nice's original pre-break-in settings, which I agree looked pretty green on my display after my modified break-in procedure)!

Thanks D-Nice!
post #72 of 10767
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

So it would be safe to say just leave the orbitor set to mode2 all of the time correct?

Could someone explain this a little more to me. If you turn on orbiter mode 2, isn't that also going to orbit dot-by-dot mode? Wouldn't that mean that it's not really dot-by-dot anymore since part of the screen is off screen and the remaining visible part of the pixels are scaled up to 1080p?
post #73 of 10767
mr2828, not quite. The idea behind dot-by-dot is so that each individual 1920x1080 pixel has their own information. Even with dot-by-dot, each pixel will still have its own original source's pixel information, but it's just now every so often, the information that it gets sent is a different pixel, but still single pixel.

With Full, you're expanding the image so the information that originally would've gotten sent to one pixel now likely will get sent to multiple and some slight guesswork is being done to smooth it out to make it look "pretty much the same."
post #74 of 10767
value man yes i agree you want to get it right so that you dont mess up your tv

while i'm not trying to pick on you in regard to no understanding you but i really had a hard time but i think you're saying that when you put the dvd the image was displayed as full screen in 4:3 and did not fill in the whole tv?

if so then yeah you want to correct so you zoom or strectch the image to fill in everything.

but it doesn't make sense since it was made in 16x9 someone correct me if im wrong? and if i'm right then you have to ajust your dvd player to output the right signal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ValueMan View Post

gus738:

Hey dropping that coin on a TV/FD111 and hoping you got it right with the break-in DVD is a bit concerning. I have been lurking hear a lot lately and I hope to figure things out with asking to many questions. I had the screen size at Full and was getting a 4x3 picture, I just played with the remote some and got the Full size to go to wide screen, like I thought it should for break-in. I have never owned a widescreen TV before, what an awesome thing, officially hooked and learning. Thanks. I am running an Oppo 983H which just looks WOW for SD video. Waiting 150 hours is going to be interesting.


D-nice i didnt explain my post well so let me try again. While your not a gamer i would just like a feedback in regards to the a/v game mode and under it you can put game mode on or off

what does this do in effect to PQ or processing? And if it doesnt do anything bad then why not have this faster process default?

i hope i make sense now, and fianly the other question if of course we want the best PQ and i belive you said pure mode is the best mode for elite right?

if so how does pure mode change to game mode?

im looking for the changes in pure vs game to see if theirs any benefit in inproved PQ for games......

i hope you can answer those questions even thought you arent a gamer thanks


Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I'm not a gamer, so I would be the last person ask regarding game lag

Also off topic D-nice but what you recommend for me to use to calibrate my 42" and 50" TH-xxpx75u? my dad has no expereince and i have very little and i thought maybe something like DVE HD basic? the blu ray edition since my dad has a sony BDP-300
post #75 of 10767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aetherhole View Post

mr2828, not quite. The idea behind dot-by-dot is so that each individual 1920x1080 pixel has their own information. Even with dot-by-dot, each pixel will still have its own original source's pixel information, but it's just now every so often, the information that it gets sent is a different pixel, but still single pixel.

With Full, you're expanding the image so the information that originally would've gotten sent to one pixel now likely will get sent to multiple and some slight guesswork is being done to smooth it out to make it look "pretty much the same."

Interesting. First, I will state that I am not knowledgeable about these things (my boilerplate disclaimer).

I have actually been meaning to ask the same question mr2828 is wondering about. I think someone brought this up earlier in either the original 9G thread or the 9G Non-Elite thread. The poster had stated (IIRC) that if he/she turned on orbiter on dot by dot mode that it did cut some of the picture off (he tested it using paused DVD I think) but I can't recall if anyone every replied to his query.

And I just used the "percent overscan" (not sure of the real name) test pattern on the DVE HD Basics Bluray disc and when I turned on Orbiter mode 2 (while using dot by dot) it did shift the picture. I am not sure what to call the 10 bars (looks kind of like the bars from the cingular ads-I think I might be watching too much TV) on the very edge of each side (that run perpendicular to the large cross pattern). But I could tell that the picture had shifted after I turned on the orbiter mode 2. Several of those bars on the left and bottom edge disappeared. And the screen appeared to be slowly shifting downward and left (as the bars on the left went from 10 bars down to 6 and the bottom bars went from 10 to 8 I think). I could actually see the bars disappearing VERY slowly. So it would appear that there is some overscan in this case. I believe that the screen if watched long enough (I only watched for about 5 minutes) would slowly start shifting the other direction as part of the pixel rotation (if you will).

I have never understood how there couldn't be overscan when using the orbiter because if every pixel is being used then there are none to "rotate onto" the screen as the screen slowly shifts its pixels.

Thanks for listening, and I hope someone can understand my post as I don't think I explained what I saw very well, anyway, go ahead and fry me.
post #76 of 10767
Q, your assessment/testing is 100% accurate. The difference is having pixel shifting, which is with Orbiter modes do, and pixel expansion, which is what setting a 1080i/p source to Full, is doing. Both will yield some sort of overscan, but the difference is 'Full' will overscan the image the same on the top and the bottom.

Orbiter modes will shift ever so slightly, as you found out, making it so there is a progressive overscan, but that's all it is. It is still sending a 1:1 pixel per pixel information to the television to display, per pixel. Yes, Orbiter mode somewhat defeats one of the reasons for using dot-by-dot, but that's just the nature of the preserving PDP from burn-in, I guess.

Another way of looking at it is, setting the TV to 'Full' and then setting orbiter mode on will yield even more overscan compared to setting the Orbiter mode on with the TV set to 'dot-by-dot'.
post #77 of 10767
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I'm not sure why it's confusing. There are major shifts in the grayscale during the first 150 hours of use. If one chooses not to exclusively use the break-in DVD for the first 150 hours of use (or at least the majority of it), they need settings to use right out of the box, right? You can't just use post 150 hours of use settings on the 9G Kuros like you could on the 8Gs......

Are you saying that if I use the "out of the box" settings you suggested and do not use the break in DVD, that the "out of the box" settings will not be good after 150 hours of use due to "major shifts in greyscale during the first 150 hours of use"?

Thanks.
post #78 of 10767
noobie question here but is it ok to run the "break in DVD" for 150 hrs non stop? Like leaving the TV on for a straight 6.5 days?
post #79 of 10767
yes its ok to run the disc non stop, some even done it pass the 200 hr mark as long as your dvd player doesnt freeze or give an error with letters you're good.

its also a good test to see if your pioneer can take heat running non stop

Quote:
Originally Posted by rtuimauga View Post

noobie question here but is it ok to run the "break in DVD" for 150 hrs non stop? Like leaving the TV on for a straight 6.5 days?
post #80 of 10767
I have a question that I think someone almost got close to but not quite. Pardon my ignorance as well. I have not been posting in the Plasma display board for a long time and have been lurking instead.

First things first though. I want to thank the creator for taking the time to develop such a tool and for sharing it. I have not downloaded it as yet but I am sure to shortly.

Just got a new 111-FD (third 50" plasma, second Pioneer) so I doubt I wll be able to resist.

I seem to remember that each color red, blue, green deteriorates with age at a different rate. While I can't right now remember which color deteriorates fastest and which slowest the question is still the same. Does the DVD account for this difference. I would think that the goal would be to eliminate any time vs. color anomalies during the break in period that would result in too much green being used up vs red during the period that the display is at its brightest for example. If that is the goal then I would guess that you would want the DVD to be designed to account for that and use the colors accordingly. Do I have that right and does the DVD account for that difference? Said another way, if the DVD uses each color at exactly the same rate then you would have at the end of the break in period used more of one color vs the other as it relates to the differing deterioration rates for each color.

Thanks again really to all of the participants that post here.
post #81 of 10767
patch i dont know if this is what your asking but the break in disc puts a series of colors one color at a time for a set of 30 secs i belive, the ideal is to evenly wear the tv so that one color doesnt age more then the other
post #82 of 10767
gus738,

You got the intent of my question exactly. If my assumption about the varying deterioration of colors vs time is correct, in order for the DVD to arrive at an equal usage of color against time, it would have to display the color that deteriorates the fastest for less time than the other colors just as an example.

If red happens to be the color that deteriorates the fastest against time then you would want to have red displayed less over the total 150 hours of break-in than the other colors in order to arrive at an equal state for all of the colors at the 150 hour mark. So maybe if red is the color that deteriorates the fastest against time then red might run through its cycle for 25 seconds while another color might run through a 30 second cycle.

Presuming I am right about the varying rates of deterioration for each color doesn't that make sense or do I just plain have it wrong? More likely the rates of deterioration are not different enough to be significant over such a relatively short period of time. Maybe that is the right answer.
post #83 of 10767
well lets say even if one of the primary colors does wear out faster then the others you still have like 60k hrs before even reaching half brightness to begain with, so you would have to pass that half brightness mark then will you see the colors weird

but i dont think you are going to keep the tv set long enough to notice that the red or green is wearing out faster then the other,

regardless if the tv is break in or not. also i forgot to add not only is the break in useful to evenly wear the phosphers (misspell) but the colors will shift properly durring its shifting points.

also when using break in disc and break in settings keep in mind the colors are boosted / juiced / maxed up to acceerlate the speed.
post #84 of 10767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aetherhole View Post

Q, your assessment/testing is 100% accurate. The difference is having pixel shifting, which is with Orbiter modes do, and pixel expansion, which is what setting a 1080i/p source to Full, is doing. Both will yield some sort of overscan, but the difference is 'Full' will overscan the image the same on the top and the bottom.

Orbiter modes will shift ever so slightly, as you found out, making it so there is a progressive overscan, but that's all it is. It is still sending a 1:1 pixel per pixel information to the television to display, per pixel. Yes, Orbiter mode somewhat defeats one of the reasons for using dot-by-dot, but that's just the nature of the preserving PDP from burn-in, I guess.

Another way of looking at it is, setting the TV to 'Full' and then setting orbiter mode on will yield even more overscan compared to setting the Orbiter mode on with the TV set to 'dot-by-dot'.

From a fellow "Tustinian" or is that "Tustinite", Aetherhole thanks for the explanation. If I understand you correctly, all displays have a slight amount of overscan even when using dot by dot, but there is no "pixel expansion" (which I assume means that nearby pixels share the same info) when using dot by dot. Is this correct? Thanks.
post #85 of 10767
I'm an idiot. Or I was just confused. Or probably more accurate, I'm a confused idiot.

At any rate, I guess didn't understand the concept of "starter settings" when D-Nice posted them in the 9G Owners Discussion Thread awhile back and confused them for break-in settings. So I set my 151 to his starter settings and ran Evangelos break in DVD for about 120 hours so far (Admittedly I have also watched a few hours of HDTV during that time as well, maybe around 5 hours).

Now I see this thread with the D-Nice's break-in settings and I realize my mistake.

What do I do now?
post #86 of 10767
Q, all displays have some sort of overscan, but dot-by-dot is supposed to eliminate that; however, having dot-by-dot with the motion of the orbiter mode, makes it inherit some overscan.

Aside from that additional note, I think everything is making perfect sense to you now!
post #87 of 10767
How can I find out how many hours are on my set so far? I've run the break-in disc for the better part of 6 days now while watching a few hours of HD cable every now and then. What a beautiful display!!
post #88 of 10767
D-Nice,
I have noticed that when I output 480i from my Toshiba A-30 HD-DVD player, A new screen size named "Cinema" appears.
It seems to fit the screen better but looks like it may be stretching ever so slightly but it may just be my eyes.
Can you elaborate on what this screen size is used for and is there any stretching going on?
When outputting 1080i/p the "Cinema" screensize is not availible.

I have been using Full for 480i but I am wondering if this "Cinema" screensize may be a better alternative for DVD movies at 480i.

Thanks,
Chad
post #89 of 10767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aetherhole View Post

Q, your assessment/testing is 100% accurate. The difference is having pixel shifting, which is with Orbiter modes do, and pixel expansion, which is what setting a 1080i/p source to Full, is doing. Both will yield some sort of overscan, but the difference is 'Full' will overscan the image the same on the top and the bottom.

Orbiter modes will shift ever so slightly, as you found out, making it so there is a progressive overscan, but that's all it is. It is still sending a 1:1 pixel per pixel information to the television to display, per pixel. Yes, Orbiter mode somewhat defeats one of the reasons for using dot-by-dot, but that's just the nature of the preserving PDP from burn-in, I guess.

Another way of looking at it is, setting the TV to 'Full' and then setting orbiter mode on will yield even more overscan compared to setting the Orbiter mode on with the TV set to 'dot-by-dot'.

See, this doesn't grok with me because if part of the 1920 x 1080 pixels available in a blu-ray (for instance) are shifted off screen by the orbiter mode 2 in dot-by-dot mode, then that automatically means there are no longer enough pixels from that blu-ray left to fill the 1920 x 1080 pixels available on my 9G panel. Therefore, there MUST be some pixel "expansion" (I'd just call it scaling) going on, just like in Full mode. So you've effective lost a good deal of the advantage of dot-by-dot mode, and it really no longer is dot-by-dot, since some of the original dots from the blu-ray are now getting expanded/scaled to fill 2 dots on parts of the 9G panel. The only difference at that point between Full and this dot-by-dot orbiter 2 mode would be that only 2 of the 4 sides of the image are being overscanned instead of all 4. So let's call it "half-Full" mode.
post #90 of 10767
Pardon my ignorance but what is the thumbdrive?
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