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*Official* Denon AVR 2309CI/889 Thread - Page 91

post #2701 of 3184
Turns out I am running 6" "woofers" in the satellites. Didn't even pay attention to that. But a 40 Hz crossover on speakers that roll off at about 90 Hz is dumb.
post #2702 of 3184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draven8795 View Post

...I posted awhile ago that the sound coming out of my center channel was hollow. I.E. if optimus prime in transformers is talking the center sounds great but once a human talks or the sound doesn't have bass to it there just isn't any umph behind it and it sounds horrible. My surrounds and floor speakers sound great. People suggested to raise the center channel height wise in the room as it was low before so I built a stand and re-ran Audyssey setup. Still sounds the same. I raised the center channel levels after Audyssey auto setup (probably 4 or 5 dbs) with a crossover of 90. I have an Infinity Entra Center Two. Can anyone make some suggestions on what i can try or if I have something setup incorrectly I have a 2309. Let me know what other info you might need to help me out (i understand since your not here this might be diffucult to diagnois i'm just looking for suggestions).

Also I usually have to turn my system up to -10db or less (-5db) for a movie. Would this be considered a normal volume for a Denon?

Stick to Optimus and Darth Vader. Human voices are puny.
Seriously, this is curious. BTW, was 90 what the AVR assigned as a xover, if not, what was assigned? To troubleshoot a little more, you could take a look at the basic graph of the eq curve Audyssey applied to the CC for anomolies. Also check each of the drivers in the CC to be sure they are working. I spose this may be a bad match of CC to the rest of the system, as batpig alluded to in an earlier answer to you. Another idea: See if you can find a CC that better matches your FR/L better at a local shop where they'll let you take it home on a trial basis. You could also post this in the Audyssey thread, with all info on speakers distances positions and trims.

Audyssey sets your system to produce reference volume at MLP. But other things can affect this. For ex., if you adjust the input trim down, use DynVol, or if the source itself is low. -5 is pretty damn loud. I don't suppose you have access to a SPL meter?
post #2703 of 3184
Quote:
Originally Posted by barfly711 View Post

Just to get some random feedback, what mode does everyone prefer to listen to music in?

I play a lot of 2-channel SACD and DVD-A's through my Oppo DV-980H and have found that I prefer the sound of neo:6 w/ Audyssey EQ on . It's sounds the cleanest and has the best distribution of bass between my 3.1 speaker setup which consists of 3 B&W M-1's and (don't laugh) a Polk PSW10 subwoofer.

I've tried the direct modes, but it sucks all the bass out, actually turns off the subwoofer and from what I read that's the way it's supposed to work.

The Stereo surround mode sounds decent, but doesn't sound as light and airy as the neo:6. Anyways, just want to see what other people are using to get some ideas.

EDIT: To be more specific I'm using the neo:6 music mode, not the cinema obviously

I have the Denon DVD-5900 and I hooked it up 5.1 analog out to the EXT.IN in back of the 889, sound can be tweaked within the DVD player, but it's pretty much pure. If I'm not mistaken, whatever is hooked up via EXT.IN, you don't have many options within presets. I enjoy it very much, especially 2ch Audio, I have some Proficient Monitors with an 8" woofer, which gives out great low-end, no need for a sub. In my opinion, for SACD's, I would stay in DIRECT mode, not NEO:6.
post #2704 of 3184
Quote:
Originally Posted by barfly711 View Post

..I play a lot of 2-channel SACD and DVD-A's through my Oppo DV-980H and have found that I prefer the sound of neo:6 w/ Audyssey EQ on . It's sounds the cleanest and has the best distribution of bass between my 3.1 speaker setup which consists of 3 B&W M-1's and (don't laugh) a Polk PSW10 subwoofer. I've tried the direct modes, but it sucks all the bass out, actually turns off the subwoofer and from what I read that's the way it's supposed to work. The Stereo surround mode sounds decent...

Hi bar. Much depends on your setup, speakers, your room and your preferences. I have Polk towers and a Polk PSW 350 sub and run 2.1 for stereo with DynEQ always on and it is great for redbook CD and HDCD. It's even better since I moved the front speakers closer, to 9'. I don't use direct for anything.

I play multich SACD on my Oppo'83, sent as DSD direct to the 2809 via HDMI. Amazing 5.1 sound. Again DynEQ always engaged. I guess you have your Oppo playing the 2 ch or downmixing to 2 ch, then have the Denon synthesize the CC? I assume that is pleasing as it fills in the front soundfield? BTW there are some Shaded Dog era three channel recordings you may be interested in referred to here.

Audyssey makes all the difference in my HT. I even tried the Oppo xtra special HI SQ stereo analog outs run into EXT IN to avoid unneccessary processing but it just didn't sound as good as digital, or as good as running through the normal analog in, with bass management and Audyssey processing, despite the extra AD/DAC that requires. Trust your ears, enjoy.
post #2705 of 3184
Quote:
Originally Posted by barfly711 View Post

I've tried the direct modes, but it sucks all the bass out, actually turns off the subwoofer and from what I read that's the way it's supposed to work.

Not sure if you're implying the Denon turned off the sub in Direct mode or not, however, the mfr default setting is for it to be ON, so if it's OFF, then it was set to OFF. Although purists might prefer it OFF, you can have it either way.
post #2706 of 3184
note that the SW mode must be set to LFE+MAIN though for the sub to activate in Direct mode.

also, one reason the bass may sound really diminished in Direct mode is the loss of Dyn EQ, which really boosts the bass at below-reference volumes.
post #2707 of 3184
"I guess you have your Oppo playing the 2 ch or downmixing to 2 ch, then have the Denon synthesize the CC? I assume that is pleasing as it fills in the front soundfield?"

That pretty much nails it. I'll investigate as to what options I'll change on the Oppo to possibly get fuller sound in Direct Mode though.

I should've mentioned I'm running via HDMI from the Oppo to the 2309CI. I'm not sure how this affects my options though.
post #2708 of 3184
The Oppo DV-980H manual recommends the follow settings for HDMI,

If your receiver supports HDMI v1.2a with Multi-Channel PCM audio and DSD over HDMI,
please set these DVD player options:
o Speaker Setup Page > Down-mix to “7.1 CH” or “5.1 CH” (Depending on your
receiver and speaker configuration)
o Speaker Setup Page > Front Speaker to “Large”
o Speaker Setup Page > Center Speaker to “Large”
o Speaker Setup Page > Surround Speaker to “Large”
o Speaker Setup Page > S. Back Speaker to “Small” (for 7.1CH setup only)
o Speaker Setup Page > Subwoofer to “On”
o Audio Setup Page > Digital Output to “Raw”
o Audio Setup Page > HDMI Audio to “Auto”
o Audio Setup Page > SACD Output to “DSD”
post #2709 of 3184
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

...also, one reason the bass may sound really diminished in Direct mode is the loss of Dyn EQ, which really boosts the bass at below-reference volumes.

+1. If I wanted direct mode I could've stuck with my old Sony AVR. It sucked just as bad in my HT.
post #2710 of 3184
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

+1. If I wanted direct mode I could've stuck with my old Sony AVR. It sucked just as bad in my HT.

Well, if and when I upgrade to the B&W 600 or 800 series speakers I think Direct Mode is going to be more appropriate. However, for now the Dynamic EQ does a wonderful job balancing my B&W M-1's and my horrid Polk PSW10. I also live in a garden apartment and am forced to listen at below reference volume most of the time.

We're moving into a single family home in February though so my options will be blown wide open. All sorts of upgrades running through my head for our media room.
post #2711 of 3184
Quote:
Originally Posted by barfly711 View Post

The Oppo DV-980H manual recommends the follow settings for HDMI,If your receiver supports HDMI v1.2a with Multi-Channel PCM audio and DSD over HDMI,
o Audio Setup Page > SACD Output to DSD

Quote:
Originally Posted by barfly711 View Post

Well, if and when I upgrade to the B&W 600 or 800 series speakers I think Direct Mode is going to be more appropriate. However, for now the Dynamic EQ does a wonderful job balancing my B&W M-1's and my horrid Polk PSW10. I also live in a garden apartment and am forced to listen at below reference volume most of the time. We're moving into a single family home in February though so my options will be blown wide open. All sorts of upgrades running through my head for our media room.

Sorry, now I recall the 2309 does not support DSD decoding in the AVR.
Your Oppo manual quotes are kinda confusing to me, but IIRC basically the Oppo should decode the DSD into PCM, and that via HDMI to the Denon run thru DynEQ should sound pretty darn nice.

A media room, oh yeah! With the difficulty, expense and poor WAF for acoustic treatments in the family room, coupled with my "OK" Polk towers, I am also very appreciative of Audyssey/DynEQ indeed.
post #2712 of 3184
Playing around since I got home from work I've found that I still prefer DTS NEO:6 Music with Dynamic EQ on when listening to 2-channel DVD audio discs. Because my B&W M-1's are so small it really helps to have the center channel fill everything out.

I did however change my speaker settings to Large in the Oppo setup and everything sounds fuller and louder at lower volumes now. The perceived volume is significantly louder so I'm trying not to mistake loud for an increase in overall fidelity.
post #2713 of 3184
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

note that the SW mode must be set to LFE+MAIN though for the sub to activate in Direct mode.

also, one reason the bass may sound really diminished in Direct mode is the loss of Dyn EQ, which really boosts the bass at below-reference volumes.

Just a follow up, I was able to get the subwoofer going in Direct mode. You are definitely right that the Dynamic EQ largely compensates for the bass at lower volumes and I really notice that in Direct mode.

Thanks everyone for your input.
post #2714 of 3184
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Stick to Optimus and Darth Vader. Human voices are puny.
Seriously, this is curious. BTW, was 90 what the AVR assigned as a xover, if not, what was assigned? To troubleshoot a little more, you could take a look at the basic graph of the eq curve Audyssey applied to the CC for anomolies. Also check each of the drivers in the CC to be sure they are working. I spose this may be a bad match of CC to the rest of the system, as batpig alluded to in an earlier answer to you. Another idea: See if you can find a CC that better matches your FR/L better at a local shop where they'll let you take it home on a trial basis. You could also post this in the Audyssey thread, with all info on speakers distances positions and trims.

Audyssey sets your system to produce reference volume at MLP. But other things can affect this. For ex., if you adjust the input trim down, use DynVol, or if the source itself is low. -5 is pretty damn loud. I don't suppose you have access to a SPL meter?

My dad has a decent set of speakers that are all the same brand so on his next visit I'm going to have him bring his and I'll use those as another example. I'll post the the settings in the audessy forum as well. I plan on calling the place I bought it from as well to see if they can give me some advice. I went to a local shop and asked the guy there and he discounted the idea that my center channel doesn't match the tonal quality of the other speakers. He said a speaker is a speaker. Any weight to taht?

How do I check the curves? No spl would that be something to look into to help dial in everything?

As far as the volume goes it seems to depend on what i'm doing. If i'm watching a movie on my xbox I have to turn it way up and it still seems to not be very loud. if i'm watching a netflix movie via the xbox i can leave it at about -28 to -30 and it sounds fine (still have the center channel issue though in both scenarios)
post #2715 of 3184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draven8795 View Post

My dad has a decent set of speakers that are all the same brand so on his next visit I'm going to have him bring his and I'll use those as another example. I'll post the the settings in the audessy forum as well. I plan on calling the place I bought it from as well to see if they can give me some advice. I went to a local shop and asked the guy there and he discounted the idea that my center channel doesn't match the tonal quality of the other speakers. He said a speaker is a speaker..

Drav,
1. A speaker is a speaker? Huh??!!
2. AFAIK to check the approx autosetup EQ curve: Manual->Audio setup->EQ Preset->Manual->Base curve (Audyssey) COPY->Each Ch->CC
3. Based on what you just posted, the volumes levels seem normal in that they are source dependent. The SPL idea was just another test to see if the CC speaker was outputting what it should with the internal test tones, you should not have to crank it up so much if it is functioning correctly.

(batpig, jd, etc., am I correct on #2?)
post #2716 of 3184
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

2. AFAIK to check the approx autosetup EQ curve: Manual->Audio setup->EQ Preset->Manual->Base curve (Audyssey) COPY->Each Ch->CC

The above method is good for when you actually want to create a Manual EQ by copying the "Audyssey Flat" curve as a starting point. The easiest way to just look at either the Audyssey or Flat curves is: Auto Setup -> Parameter Check -> EQ Check.
post #2717 of 3184
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The above method is good for when you actually want to create a Manual EQ by copying the "Audyssey Flat" curve as a starting point. The easiest way to just look at either the Audyssey or Flat curves is: Auto Setup -> Parameter Check -> EQ Check.

Thnx, jd, for straightening that out. I'd never looked at those correction graphs myself and I had a feeling I'd gotten off track somewhere in that damn menu tree.
post #2718 of 3184
Quote:
Originally Posted by barfly711 View Post

Just to get some random feedback, what mode does everyone prefer to listen to music in?

I play a lot of 2-channel SACD and DVD-A's through my Oppo DV-980H and have found that I prefer the sound of neo:6 w/ Audyssey EQ on . It's sounds the cleanest and has the best distribution of bass between my 3.1 speaker setup which consists of 3 B&W M-1's and (don't laugh) a Polk PSW10 subwoofer.

I've tried the direct modes, but it sucks all the bass out, actually turns off the subwoofer and from what I read that's the way it's supposed to work.

The Stereo surround mode sounds decent, but doesn't sound as light and airy as the neo:6. Anyways, just want to see what other people are using to get some ideas.

EDIT: To be more specific I'm using the neo:6 music mode, not the cinema obviously

I prefer PLII music to neo:6 myself. I'm bitsreaming via HDMI from an Oppo BD-83 to my 2309 with a 5.1 setup. I use the Flat Audyssey curve for music.
post #2719 of 3184
I have had a 2309 for a year.

I can't seem to get it to play (or indicate that it is playing) DTS or any loss less source. Am I missing something? I messed around with a lot of things and I can not get the front panel to indicate anything where I should see DTS for example except Auto??
post #2720 of 3184
What surround mode are you in now? What is displayed on the front panel? Place it in STANDARD (STD on remote) surround mode and see if that helps.
post #2721 of 3184
Quote:
Originally Posted by t6902wf View Post

I have had a 2309 for a year.

I can't seem to get it to play (or indicate that it is playing) DTS or any loss less source. Am I missing something? I messed around with a lot of things and I can not get the front panel to indicate anything where I should see DTS for example except Auto??

have you read through the audio section of my FAQ?
http://batpigworld.com/fadq.html#audio
post #2722 of 3184
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

have you read through the audio section of my FAQ?
http://batpigworld.com/fadq.html#audio

Batpig, thanks for teaching me to fish. That is an excellent explanation.

Do I read it correctly to say that because you are decoding a digital signal there is no better decoder? The Bluray player is equal to the receiver because it is essentially math? I suspect this is one of those things that is argued to death.
post #2723 of 3184
basically, yes. it doesn't (or at least shouldn't) matter where it gets decoded. digital is digital, the receiver eventually will operate on all audio in the PCM domain, so whether it gets to PCM first in the player or the receiver does it, the reconstruction of the original PCM data should be bit-for-bit identical.
post #2724 of 3184
Hi all

Did anyone applied a firmware update to a EUropean 2309?
I have a EU 2309 and my main firmware is the 00.87.

I might have the sound bug too.

Can anyone tell me how to update and how to get the EU newest firmware update?

Thanks a lot
post #2725 of 3184
Denon updates for all EU models can be downloaded from this site.
post #2726 of 3184
Thank you for the answer...again .

The version on this site for my receiver is the 00.70 and i have main ver 00.87.

Is this the main version number on the site?

How can i find 00.90 to resolve the sound bug?

Thank you
post #2727 of 3184
Contact a Denon Authorized Repair center in your region until you find one that has the update. Another route is to have Denon EU update that download website with the current firmware for the 2309.
post #2728 of 3184
If anyone can help me keep from taking my 889 in for repair I will be eternally grateful. Bad enough I've reset the microprocessor already wiping out all my custom settings I have the green circle power light but that is all. The problem isn't the "pure" option or the dimmer switch(2 things customer service had me try). The unit is not passing through the HDMI signal from the satellite to the tv or speakers. No graphics whatsoever on the front of the receiver. Denon customer service says that if resetting the microprocessor doesn't fix it then it's broke. I'm hoping that there might be another diagnosis as I'm 6 hour drive from the nearest repair facility and I can't afford to ship it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
post #2729 of 3184
Sounds like it's broke.

If it were just that source, you could send HDMI to the TV with an optical to the AVR. However, no display is tough. Does the OSD work at all?

Although likely to cost far less to ship it then to drive it up there for repair.
post #2730 of 3184
I bought my 889 about a year ago. Should I have updated the firmware, if so where can I download? I changed a setting two weeks ago (no idea what setting) trying to get the Wii graphics better. When I made the change now my TV will not show on screen menu. It says not supported mode. I get picture on all inputs no problem. What would I have changed that the OSD doesn't display. Can I reset all settings back to default somehow?
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