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*Official* Denon AVR 2309CI/889 Thread - Page 94

post #2791 of 3184
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougdude9 View Post

So, I'm really wondering if it is the fact I have hdmi going from the denon to the tv???

I should have quoted the above before ... this is not your problem as virtually EVERYONE connects the AVR to the TV with an HDMI cable. If you can select each of those sources HDP or SAT/CBL and get video from them from the component cable, then you should be able to select the CD input and use the Video Select setting to get video as well.

It really isn't that bad to just copy down the few settings you've changed and then reset the microprocessor.
post #2792 of 3184
Ok, I have some new information. Problem is, I don't know what to be mad at... the Denon? the Samsung tv? or the stupid scientific atlanta cable box.

Here is what I did when I got home tonight...

First I tried the unplug for a bit and plug back in. I also did this with the cable box.

Second, I still had component out of the cable box to cbl/tv component in which is also 3-rca when you look at the settings in the denon. I made sure the assigment was right and when I put the denon on the cbl/tv source, I still didn't get any video. So forget the cd player for a minute, I can't even get the component cable to work. I thought I did back when I plugged them into the hdp input and then told the input to be analog, I still got video with no sound, so I thought that was a good enough test... apparently I was wrong.

So I fiddled with a few settings, but nothing could get me video on the cbl/tv source. At this point I thought I would unplug the cbl/tv component cables from the denon and plug them straight into the tv just to make sure my cable box was even outputting some video through component. I turned on ONLY the cable box and the TV. I HAD VIDEO!!! I thought, "great, I will just use it this way... this will be my workaround. I thought I would just listen to the cd player through the denon and then instead of having the tv on HDMI1, I would change it to component 1 when I wanted to watch to tv while my denon is still on the cd source and cranking my tunes. Well, this didn't work and I found out why...

When I power on the Denon, the video to "COMPONENT 1 ON THE TV" stops working... goes blank. If I turn the Denon off, the component 1 on the TV that is being fed the component from the cable box starts working again. Now, I have no idea why it does this and it is frustrating! I thought I had a good workaround by having the component cable from the cable box bypass the denon and go straight to the tv. Again, if the denon is off, this works fine by putting the tv on component 1. As soon as I turn on the denon even though the tv is still on component 1, the display goes blank!

Does this help anyone help me???? I hope so... this is so strange!

One more bit of info is that I have ALWAYS gotten "your tv does not allow display of this program through the dvi input source" from the cable box when switch back to the HDP source from say the dvd source. It has never bothered me, because I could just hit the A button and it would go away. I don't know if this would help anybody help me with the issue???... might be related? I don't have anything plugged into dvi thought.

Thanks,
Doug
post #2793 of 3184
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougdude9 View Post

Something I haven't mentioned yet and probably should is that the denon has hdmi out to the tv hdmi in. It is a samsung tv. Does that matter?

If that is the case, I'm not sure if it is worth the trouble.

Anyway, if anyone has any more information, it would be greatly appreciated. I really hope I'm just doing something stupid.

Thanks,
Doug

Ah yes, Component Monitor Out is the only way my setup ever work. I can have the tuner On and play video (Xbox 360 and Wii).
post #2794 of 3184
Quote:


Ah yes, Component Monitor Out is the only way my setup ever work. I can have the tuner On and play video (Xbox 360 and Wii).

Really??? What a bummer. So basically remove the HDMI monitor out that goes from the denon to the tv and replace with component is what you are saying?

Is component not as good as HDMI video? I strive for the best picture I can get, so that is why I always went with HDMI... plus it is just easier.

I think I'm even more confused than when I first started trying to figure this out! lol!

Thanks,
Doug
post #2795 of 3184
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougdude9 View Post

Really??? What a bummer. So basically remove the HDMI monitor out that goes from the denon to the tv and replace with component is what you are saying?

Is component not as good as HDMI video? I strive for the best picture I can get, so that is why I always went with HDMI... plus it is just easier.

I think I'm even more confused than when I first started trying to figure this out! lol!

Thanks,
Doug

No, you don't have to remove HDMI Monitor Out. I use both HDMI out and Component out to Tv.
post #2796 of 3184
Quote:


No, you don't have to remove HDMI Monitor Out. I use both HDMI out and Component out to Tv.

Cool... I'm going to try this right now. I'll post back.

Thanks,
Doug
post #2797 of 3184
Ok, so I might get a baseball bat and bash my tv, ps3, cd player, denon receiver, and then my head.

I tried the component monitor out to the tv into component 1. I turn everything on as if I'm watching tv and when I switch the tv to component 1 input, all I get is sound. I give up.

So in trying this I had the following...
cable box to denon via hdmi
denon to tv via hdmi AND component.

Do I have to have a second component from the cable box to the denon?

Anyway, I still don't know why what I tried earlier doesn't work... Why can't I just simply have component straight fromt he cable box to the tv??? It works fine until I turn the denon on and then it stops.

Thanks,
Doug
post #2798 of 3184
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougdude9 View Post

So in trying this I had the following...
cable box to denon via hdmi
denon to tv via hdmi AND component.

Do I have to have a second component from the cable box to the denon?

Thanks,
Doug

Yes, Video Select will not work with HDMI In. Connect component cables from cable box.

Edit: plus you can't down convert video, HDMI to Component either (see bold).

Quote:


Anyway, I still don't know why what I tried earlier doesn't work... Why can't I just simply have component straight fromt he cable box to the tv??? It works fine until I turn the denon on and then it stops.

This could be the limitation of your cable box unless the cable box has a menu where it can redirect video to HDMI or Component or both. If the limitation holds true then you may have to remove the HDMI cable from the cable box to receiver (if you can't output both HDMI and Component) just to test out Video Select function.
post #2799 of 3184
In order for Component Out to work you must also have a Component In.

However, it would be much better to simply get the Component In to HDMI Out working correctly. In order for it to work, the Video Convert setting must be set to ON and the i/p Scaler setting should be set to "AtoH".
post #2800 of 3184
Many cable boxes do not output component video when they sense an HDMI connection. That could be the problem here (and would explain why the video cuts out when the Denon turns on, even when the component video is going straight the TV).

I use VIDEO SELECT all the time on my setup with no issues. Your best bet is to do one of the following:

Option 1) Do as JChin suggested above, and remove the HDMI cable from the cable box. Run the cable box with component video + digital audio into the Denon and you should be able to use the VIDEO SELECT feature normally to combine TV video with audio from other (non HDMI) sources. This is what I do on my setup, works fine.

Option 2) Completely divorce the cable box video from the receiver, by running HDMI straight from cable box to the TV (plus a digital audio cable to the AVR for surround sound). When you want to mix TV video with other audio, simply change the input on the TV to the cable box, and the input on the AVR to whatever you want.
post #2801 of 3184
Quote:


Option 1) Do as JChin suggested above, and remove the HDMI cable from the cable box. Run the cable box with component video + digital audio into the Denon and you should be able to use the VIDEO SELECT feature normally to combine TV video with audio from other (non HDMI) sources. This is what I do on my setup, works fine.

Is digital audio and "optical" audio the same thing? My cable box has a digital audio out and an optical audio.

Thanks,
Doug
post #2802 of 3184
the one labeled "digital audio out" is probably an RCA coaxial digital output.

Optical (with the little toslink fiber optic connecter) and coaxial digital (with a standard RCA connector) do the same thing, just via a different type of cable.... so use either one, whichever is easier.
post #2803 of 3184
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougdude9 View Post

Is digital audio and "optical" audio the same thing?...

Yes, both are digital SPDIF and are essentially equivalent for our purposes. Your "digital" audio out is carried via a coax RCA cable and the other thru an optical.

too sloooowwwww
post #2804 of 3184
Quote:


Option 1) Do as JChin suggested above, and remove the HDMI cable from the cable box. Run the cable box with component video + digital audio into the Denon and you should be able to use the VIDEO SELECT feature normally to combine TV video with audio from other (non HDMI) sources. This is what I do on my setup, works fine.

Batpig,
Woohoo!!! Ok so this finally got me what I wanted. I can now use the video select and listen to tunes while watching tv.

My questions is this...
I've always been one of those boneheads thinking HDMI had to be the way to go. So I never considered component for my main tv watching. So, is there a quality diff between HDMI video and component video? I mean one is digital and one is analog, right? I can't really tell one diff, but I thought I would ask.

With the above question also raises a question about audio... Is HDMI audio better than optical digital audio?

I'm afraid I'm going to miss my HDMI... lol!!!

I've done some of my own searching, but mostly the subject just leads to arguments. So, since I trust all you guys here, I hope to hear your thoughts!

Thanks,
Doug
post #2805 of 3184
Quote:


Batpig,
Woohoo!!! Ok so this finally got me what I wanted. I can now use the video select and listen to tunes while watching tv.

I should have probably just edited my previous post...

Anyway, I did get it working to where I can use the video select while on the cd source and watch tv. However, I CANNOT do the same for the ps3. I'm assuming this is because I have the ps3 hooked up with HDMI. So, this means I probably never will be able to stream my music with the ps3 and watch tv at the same time, right?

Thanks!
Doug

EDIT: I now see
Quote:


you should be able to use the VIDEO SELECT feature normally to combine TV video with audio from other (non HDMI) sources

So that answers my question right there. I'm basically screwed for streaming ps3 tunes and watching tv.

Thanks,
Doug
post #2806 of 3184
Quote:


Option 2) Completely divorce the cable box video from the receiver, by running HDMI straight from cable box to the TV (plus a digital audio cable to the AVR for surround sound). When you want to mix TV video with other audio, simply change the input on the TV to the cable box, and the input on the AVR to whatever you want.

Ok, so I can stream music in the ps3 and watch tv at the same time, I'm thinking of doing the above.

Are there any drawbacks to option 2? Any loss of quality on anything?

THanks!
post #2807 of 3184
Quote:
I've always been one of those boneheads thinking HDMI had to be the way to go. So I never considered component for my main tv watching. So, is there a quality diff between HDMI video and component video?

you have fallen into the marketer's trap a lot of money has been invested on convincing everyone that HDMI is the sh!t, and forcing it as the default industry connection standard, but the primary reason they are doing this is digital copy protection. It's about content control, which can be done with a digital connection format with "2-way" handshaking, but can't be controlled with analog connections. Unfortunately, consumers end up suffering (whether it's handshake issues, or stupid limitations like this whole Video Select thing) as a consequence of the quest of the content providers to fend off the "pirates".

Now, HDMI does have some advantages, namely the huge bandwidth, audio+video over one cable... it's the only way you can get hi-rez audio and 1080p digital video from a Blu-ray. But cable boxes are putting out 720p/1080i compressed video and Dolby Digital 5.1 audio, which does perfectly fine over component video / digital audio. I personally cannot tell a difference with my cable box hooked up with HDMI vs. component video, so I use component (the Video Select feature being one of several reasons).

In fact, component video is perfectly capable of carrying 1080p video. They intentionally cripple this output on Blu-ray players to force you to use the DRM'd HDMI connection.

Quote:
So that answers my question right there. I'm basically screwed for streaming ps3 tunes and watching tv.

you're not totally screwed. In addition to going with Option 2 (direct HDMI connection from cable box to TV), you could also use the "multi audio out" option on the PS3 and run the analog audio to another input on the receiver, and then use Video Select to match that audio stream with the component video stream from the cable box.

Quote:
Are there any drawbacks to option 2? Any loss of quality on anything?

no loss of quality at all. In fact, in a way it's the "best of both worlds" because you get HDMI video to the TV, and digital audio to the receiver (e.g. you don't have to "compromise" with component video, just in case that bugs you).

the only "drawback" is the extra cable running to the TV, and the fact that you have to switch inputs on the TV and the AVR (as opposed to the AVR being the all-in-one switcher for all audio and video). This last consideration is totally moot if you have a programmable universal remote to do the switching for you.
post #2808 of 3184
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I use VIDEO SELECT all the time on my setup with no issues.

Hi batpig, with your setup you're able to output via HDMI?

I have never been able to do this via HDMI, only component. Is this possible because of handshake issue?
post #2809 of 3184
yes, absolutely. I output all video from the receiver via one HDMI cable to the TV. Including "mixed" inputs using Video Select.

The output shouldn't matter, it's just a question of having the right input format.

So if you you take a component video input, mix it with an analog audio input, you can't output the video over HDMI??
post #2810 of 3184
I have try iPod with RCA cables using front and rear connection and still can't make it work with HDMI out. The Tv screen stays blank with the HDMI-1 input indicator at the top left corner. I have try all 3 HDMI input on the Tv and still no go. But it works great with Component out.
post #2811 of 3184
Quote:
Option 2) Completely divorce the cable box video from the receiver, by running HDMI straight from cable box to the TV (plus a digital audio cable to the AVR for surround sound). When you want to mix TV video with other audio, simply change the input on the TV to the cable box, and the input on the AVR to whatever you want.

I did the above and have my logitec remote programmed perfectly. Everything that I want available now works great!

I also updated my firmware and ran the auto setup again and things sound fantastic. I need to learn more about the dynamic volume and eq. Are those just options or are their settings within those? I'll go through the manual some more.

Thanks to everyone that helped me with this!!! You guys are great! Thanks to this forum as well!

Doug
post #2812 of 3184
Does anybody have the technical schematic for the 2309CI? I need to get a copy to my repair guy. I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks
post #2813 of 3184
Hello!
Alright, I'm back and I'm hoping you guys can help me again. I promise this is a much simpler question than weeks ago!

I've had a ps3 and the 2309ci for awhile now. DVD's, games, etc through the ps3 always show as "Mutli Channel IN" on the 2309ci. Is this what it should be?

It makes me thing the ps3 is doing the decoding when I would rather the Denon do the work. Shouldn't the ps3 bitstream the audio and let the Denon do the work... or shoot, maybe that is what it is doing???

Basically I want to know how it should be setup for the best sound from DVD's and BR's.

Thanks,
Doug
post #2814 of 3184
The old (fat) PS3's don't bitsteam HD audio, but they do regular Dolby Digital and DTS. They can decode the high resolution audio and then pass it via LPCM to your Denon. This is mostly the case with Bluray discs.

You can set the options for the PS3 to bitstream as much as possible. (Formats)

Rest assured, you're getting HD sound, but the little blue light just won't come on. (And we all love the little blue light)
post #2815 of 3184
you should read through the Audio section of my FAQ (and the PS3 info directly above it as well): http://batpigworld.com/fadq.html#audio
post #2816 of 3184
Agreed. Batpig has an excellent resource that I have spent a lot of time on. Great site!
post #2817 of 3184
Quote:
you should read through the Audio section of my FAQ (and the PS3 info directly above it as well): http://batpigworld.com/fadq.html#audio
__________________
batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Wow, Thanks Batpig. I had seen that faq before! I read it again just now and it makes perfect sense!

I thought I read somewhere that a firmware update for the ps3 allowed the phat ps3's to bitstream... I could be wrong though.

Either way, at least I know I'm getting the right audio. I do like me some blue lights though!!! lol!

Thanks,
Doug
post #2818 of 3184
Ok I looked around a bit and I'm stumped as to how to solve my problem so i'm coming here for some help from the experts . So I have an htpc setup and I am trying to pass the audio from my pc to my denon 889. I have an HT omega striker 7.1 sound card and the video from the pc is being handled by an nvidia gts 450 via hdmi or hdmi to dvi (i have tried both). I can get the video feed from the gts 450 working but I've tried on both linux (ubuntu) and windows 7 (64 bit versions of each) to pass the audio feed from the omega striker via an optical cable and component cables and haven't had success with either. I know the sound card is working fine under both vista and ubuntu because sound it output to headphones when I test them direct from the cards. So either the optical out on my sound card is broken (which I think is unlikely) or somehow the denon is not able to recognize the feed. Does using HDMI to pass video disable the usage of other cables for passing audio simultaneously? Are there any other cables I need to use or might I just have the 889 set up incorrectly? When I pass video and audio via hdmi to ps3 I have no problems whatsoever and on the on screen display of the 889 on the left side it shows the configuration I have set up. There is no such indicaion when I connect the optical out of my omega strike to the optical in on the 889. Any help would be very appreciated.
post #2819 of 3184
If you have the optical connection assigned to the same input source name as the HTPC, then change the HTPC's setting to "Digital".
post #2820 of 3184
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

If you have the optical connection assigned to the same input source name as the HTPC, then change the HTPC's setting to "Digital".


Yes I have the optical connection from the sound card assigned to the VCR source along with HDMI from the gts 450 assigned to the VCR source and I have the audio set as digital instead of auto or analog and I am still receiving no sound. In windows 7 under the sound properties it shows that the hto striker is working correctly and it is outputting digital audio. I can see the volume meter fluctuate while playing videos with audio and I can hear the audio fine from the sound card when I connect headphones directly to the card, but not when I connect the card to the 889 via optical toslink or digital coax.
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