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Official Pioneer Elite BDP-05FD & BDP-51FD Owners Thread / Vs 1.32 DTS-HD MA - Page 1005

post #30121 of 30708
Well I've retired my 51 for a denon, Had a lot of fun with the 51 and kinda hate to see it go but now that I have a faster player and can also play SACD's I'm happy.

good luck to all that still have the 51 and 05.
post #30122 of 30708
My 51 has been collecting dust for a while. Which Denon did you get?
post #30123 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP View Post

My 51 has been collecting dust for a while. Which Denon did you get?

I got the DBT-1713UD. Plays anything you throw at and does it fast. My 51 is still ok but I just got tired of disc's not playing because of the smallest of flaws. The Denon looks and sounds as good or better then my 51. Oh and now the player is hooked up to the internet so updates are a breeze!
post #30124 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by greyflag View Post

I have 1.70 CD that I burned; you're welcome to it. PM me if you want it.
Glenn

Glenn,

i was able to find a DL link for 1.70, but thanks! smile.gif

No info if 1.73 is Cinavia free?
post #30125 of 30708
I have had my 51 for a few years and only minor complaints, mainly about the boot time and not really much about rentals. I just recently purchased a new set of towers for improved stereo reproduction and I was curious if there was any benefit to running the analog preouts to the AVR from the BDP 51 or should I leave the HDMI connection or run both? My prior set up was using small speakers and listening to music in multi channel mode, now with the towers I can truly enjoy music in pure direct mode.

Angel
post #30126 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel L. View Post

I have had my 51 for a few years and only minor complaints, mainly about the boot time and not really much about rentals. I just recently purchased a new set of towers for improved stereo reproduction and I was curious if there was any benefit to running the analog preouts to the AVR from the BDP 51 or should I leave the HDMI connection or run both? My prior set up was using small speakers and listening to music in multi channel mode, now with the towers I can truly enjoy music in pure direct mode.
Angel

Usually "yes" unless your receiver has DACs as good as or better than the 51, and that's a pretty tough hurdle. The 51 is known for its DACs.
post #30127 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post

Usually "yes" unless your receiver has DACs as good as or better than the 51, and that's a pretty tough hurdle. The 51 is known for its DACs.

My AVR is Pioneer Elite 82, not sure about the DAC's on the AVR? So do you recommend running analog to the AVR? If so, is there anything on the setup menu to change?
post #30128 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel L. View Post

My AVR is Pioneer Elite 82, not sure about the DAC's on the AVR? So do you recommend running analog to the AVR? If so, is there anything on the setup menu to change?

I know nothing about your receiver. My receiver had a "multi-channel" input that had to be selected. Yours should have a similar option. Check the manual or maybe someone else can chime in.
post #30129 of 30708
^^^

Now there is an honest response! smile.gif
post #30130 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel L. View Post

My AVR is Pioneer Elite 82, not sure about the DAC's on the AVR? So do you recommend running analog to the AVR? If so, is there anything on the setup menu to change?

no such receiver in database ..do you have the correct number? Pioneer does use Burr Brown Dacs in their AVRs and the Wolfson dacs in the 51 and 05 players are outstanding so stay with using the 51 for analog playback. Also put your avr to scource direct or direct input mode for cd playback from the 51 this way there is no further processing going on by the avr.
post #30131 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebakanezzar View Post


No info if 1.73 is Cinavia free?
It's been discontinued long enough now, that I don't believe Pioneer would bother.
post #30132 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by gene9p View Post

no such receiver in database ..do you have the correct number? Pioneer does use Burr Brown Dacs in their AVRs and the Wolfson dacs in the 51 and 05 players are outstanding so stay with using the 51 for analog playback. Also put your avr to scource direct or direct input mode for cd playback from the 51 this way there is no further processing going on by the avr.


Pioneer Elite VSX-82TSX is the proper model number for the AVR. I am now using HDMI to the AVR, tonight I am going to run analog from the BDP to the AVR and R/L out from AVR to the SUB. Hopefully I will get improved stereo reproduction in pure direct mode and enable the sub as well. Right now no the sub is not enabled in stereo mode, only in multi Chanel and LFE.
post #30133 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel L. View Post

Pioneer Elite VSX-82TSX is the proper model number for the AVR. I am now using HDMI to the AVR, tonight I am going to run analog from the BDP to the AVR and R/L out from AVR to the SUB. Hopefully I will get improved stereo reproduction in pure direct mode and enable the sub as well. Right now no the sub is not enabled in stereo mode, only in multi Chanel and LFE.

I suggest making the comparison without the sub, that way you are making a direct comparison between the DACs in the AVR vs the DACs in the 51FD. If i had to predict the outcome i would bet my money on the 51FD's DACs...let us know!
post #30134 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel L. View Post

Pioneer Elite VSX-82TSX is the proper model number for the AVR. I am now using HDMI to the AVR, tonight I am going to run analog from the BDP to the AVR and R/L out from AVR to the SUB. Hopefully I will get improved stereo reproduction in pure direct mode and enable the sub as well. Right now no the sub is not enabled in stereo mode, only in multi Chanel and LFE.

This will come down to preference as each DAC implementation has its own sonic characteristics. I think a previous poster mentioned that your AVR uses Burr Brown, which are very good when implemented properly. I think the DAC implementation in the 51FD and 05FD is good, but you may still prefer the AVR doing the decoding. I have 51FD which was never my 1st for CD playback, but I just had better alternatives in my setup at the time. Good luck and let your ears guide you.smile.gif

Anyone interested in a 51FD in excellent functional and cosmetic condition shoot me a PM as it is getting very little use.smile.gif
post #30135 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel L. View Post

Pioneer Elite VSX-82TSX is the proper model number for the AVR. I am now using HDMI to the AVR, tonight I am going to run analog from the BDP to the AVR and R/L out from AVR to the SUB. Hopefully I will get improved stereo reproduction in pure direct mode and enable the sub as well. Right now no the sub is not enabled in stereo mode, only in multi Chanel and LFE.

My AVR is very similar and I use full range speakers. I have tried the options you are suggesting (and still have those connections enabled) but without the sub because of the full range speakers. As others may remember I personally can hear no real difference but ended up instinctively marginally preferring the HDMI connection and I was quizzed regarding the 'better' DACs in the 51/05. But as bakerwi says in his post if the Burr Browns are properly implemented then they are very good, I would have no reason to suspect Pioneer would not properly implement these in a fairly high end AVR (particularly with Air Studios certification).

I have tried and occasionally use pure direct mode but generally find the sound sort of flat and two dimensional is the best way I can describe it, as the MCACC room frequency response corrections are not excessive and in fact quite small for most of the audio band I think this must be due to reflections cancellation and the full band phase equalization carried out by the AVR. So again personally I prefer the AVR to do some processing to cancel out room coloration.

Again referring to bakerwi's post I agree with everything he has said particularly 'let your ears guide you' but I think you may find it a difficult choice.
Edited by Rick R - 10/9/12 at 8:05am
post #30136 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebakanezzar View Post

Glenn,
i was able to find a DL link for 1.70, but thanks! smile.gif
No info if 1.73 is Cinavia free?

I am using 1.73 without any problems it seems to be a good firmware release, I don't have access to any copied BD so cannot prove either way if it is or is not Cinavia free, I suspect it has not been implemented and never will be. As I understand it there was no obligation for manufacterers to implement Cinavia on players certified before February this year and Oppo have stated categorically that it will not be implemented on the 93 or 95 (later models than the 51/05) but is implemented on the 103.

I did a little research on Cinavia and was amazed to find that not only do the studios have to pay a license fee but so do the player manufacturers to implement it in their firmware. I think we can reasonably argue there is no way Pioneer will implement this objectionable software in a host of obsolete/out of production players, and have to pay for the priveledge, when they are not required to do so by the BDA and AAC. I find this software objectionable because no longer is the HD audio bit for bit the same as the studio master as claimed (it can't be, it has had something added) and secondly a little research will show it does little to combat piracy and only penalizes legitimate users who want to back up their physical originals and stream the movies from a hard drive. I don't do the latter so that does not really affect me but I do understand and sympathise with those that prefer to do that.
post #30137 of 30708
^^^

If you really want to hear some chatter over this subject go to this thread by our earlier Resident Poster/Guru RUINED. I've read most if not all of the Posts and the subject of Cinavia is quite an interesting piece of work:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1285522/audiophiles-vs-cinavia-drm-that-kills-lossless-sound-on-blu-ray
post #30138 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick R View Post

I am using 1.73 without any problems it seems to be a good firmware release, I don't have access to any copied BD so cannot prove either way if it is or is not Cinavia free, I suspect it has not been implemented and never will be. As I understand it there was no obligation for manufacterers to implement Cinavia on players certified before February this year and Oppo have stated categorically that it will not be implemented on the 93 or 95 (later models than the 51/05) but is implemented on the 103.
I did a little research on Cinavia and was amazed to find that not only do the studios have to pay a license fee but so do the player manufacturers to implement it in their firmware. I think we can reasonably argue there is no way Pioneer will implement this objectionable software in a host of obsolete/out of production players, and have to pay for the priveledge, when they are not required to do so by the BDA and AAC. I find this software objectionable because no longer is the HD audio bit for bit the same as the studio master as claimed (it can't be, it has had something added) and secondly a little research will show it does little to combat piracy and only penalizes legitimate users who want to back up their physical originals and stream the movies from a hard drive. I don't do the latter so that does not really affect me but I do understand and sympathise with those that prefer to do that.

+1!
post #30139 of 30708

Did I really buy a $450 boat anchor?

Way back in 2007 I purchased a Pioneer BDP-51FD due to all the wonderful reviews here. Alas, I discovered fairly quickly that it wouldn't play some of the BD's that I threw at it. "Valkyrie" being only one of them. Doing my research, I discovered that my unit did not have the "black dot" that indicated that the firmware could be updated via a DVD. Thus, I had to send my unit to the Pioneer service center.

While that was gone, I ended up buying a Sony PS/3 and loved the performance of that, so when my 51FD arrived back from the factory, I never even opened the box to give it a test run.

Skip ahead to about a month ago. I decided to let my son have the PS/3 in his room, so I finally opened the box and took the 51FD out and hooked it up to my plasma. It now had the dot, and the 1.61 firmware. It would play some BD's, but still not "Valkyrie", and one other BD I got from Netflix. Needless to say, I was not impressed. I decided to give the unit one more shot, so I ordered the latest firmware(1.73) from Pioneer. It arrived on a DVD and I performed the upgrade.

Valkyrie still does not play on the 51FD even with the latest firmware! Valkyrie, and every other BD, plays just fine in my PS/3 and the Sony BDP-S570 that I have in my bedroom.

Did I just get a lemon 51FD, or have others run into the same thing? It appears that at this point I have no other option than to live with this picky blue ray player, or hook it up to some line and use it as a boat anchor.

I don't think I'm really asking for help, I'm just venting about such a highly-touted player that has been a major disappointment to me. Thanks for reading.
post #30140 of 30708
While the 51FD is the slowest animal in the zoo, I find that it will play every Blu Ray I throw at it, including Valkyrie. There are a couple of Blu Rays for which the unit will not display disc info such as elapsed time, which I find odd but not overly distressing.

I'm not sure how much longer we'll be getting F/W updates for this model, so I expect playing new Blu Ray releases will become increasingly problematic.
post #30141 of 30708
I am having the same problem. The last two Blu-rays I got from netflix would not play.
The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo and Sideways. My firmware is 1.65 but I am going to
try update to 1.73. If that doesn't work I guess I will buy a new inexpensive Sony or Panny.
Seems a shame that I paid $250 for this unit back in 07. It is a nice looking unit but if it won't
play, whats the point.
post #30142 of 30708
I have re-discovered blu-ray and my 51FD. I now have a Darbee hooked up to this thing and playing it on my Optoma HD20 and blasting the sound from a full set of Andrew Jones Pioneers. Absolutely stunning.

Never had much of a no-play issue even with netflix BD's back in the day. I just updated to 1.73 a few days ago. I always did keep it updated, maybe thats the deal.
post #30143 of 30708
Ok, so I was at WalMart today so i bought a copy of the first Lord of the Rings movies.
It played on the Pioneer flawlessly. That is telling me something about the Netflix discs I am getting.
post #30144 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick Wilhelm View Post

Valkyrie still does not play on the 51FD even with the latest firmware!

What is the behavior of the unit when you try it? Does it start & freeze? Do you reach the main menu? What does the unit display on screen and on the panel? With more info, we might be able to suggests things to try, but a hint of the current behavior would be helpful.

Did you try the factory reset described in post #7?

Dan.
post #30145 of 30708
Hey Guys,

UK member here, joined to look for some answers but forgive me if the model numbers are not the same. I've got a lx71 that does not like dvd or cd anymore, looks like the laser is dead for that. I may be able to get hold of a working 51fd and was thinking if I could get away with using that as a doner and swapping the drive units over? Or do they share different components/wiring? If it is the same and just a matter or swapping and plug n play then I am tempted to do it. Can someone with technical experience of both players please confirm.

Thanks,
Evil
post #30146 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by evil stewie View Post

Hey Guys,
UK member here, joined to look for some answers but forgive me if the model numbers are not the same. I've got a lx71 that does not like dvd or cd anymore, looks like the laser is dead for that. I may be able to get hold of a working 51fd and was thinking if I could get away with using that as a doner and swapping the drive units over? Or do they share different components/wiring? If it is the same and just a matter or swapping and plug n play then I am tempted to do it. Can someone with technical experience of both players please confirm.
Thanks,
Evil

Unless it's an 51fd of different voltage to yours, then why not use it as it is?

I have a broken remote control detector most likely in mine, but the el cheapo philips I got seems to do just as good a job and is faster, so I may never put up the money to have it fixed... It's main advantage is good looks and better sound opening the hatch...rolleyes.gif
post #30147 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by evil stewie View Post

Hey Guys,
UK member here, joined to look for some answers but forgive me if the model numbers are not the same. I've got a lx71 that does not like dvd or cd anymore, looks like the laser is dead for that. I may be able to get hold of a working 51fd and was thinking if I could get away with using that as a doner and swapping the drive units over? Or do they share different components/wiring? If it is the same and just a matter or swapping and plug n play then I am tempted to do it. Can someone with technical experience of both players please confirm.
Thanks,
Evil
Sorry... If I recall correctly, there is an identification number registered between motherboard and drive. When a technician swaps the drive, he needs to use a special CD to register the drive.

You can try a search for something like that in this thread.

Dan.
post #30148 of 30708
That is correct... you cannot just swap out the drive on the Pioneer players because of the stupid CPRM (copy protection rights management?) required by studios...
  • An individual ID number and ID data (AACS, CPRM, BD+, Windows Media DRM, and MAC address) must be input at the same time. All data are determined according to the data on the ID data disc. If the number and data are not set correctly with the following procedure, the unit does not work properly. You will find the ID number to be labeled on the rear panel.
  • This setting is Necessary When the DRIVE Assy or MAIN Assy is replaced.

(from the Pioneer service manual)
post #30149 of 30708
Thanks for all the good info and advice, I think I will just upgrade to the lx55 or wait to get an oppo if the price is right! smile.gif
post #30150 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by evil stewie View Post

Hey Guys,
UK member here, joined to look for some answers but forgive me if the model numbers are not the same. I've got a lx71 that does not like dvd or cd anymore, looks like the laser is dead for that. I may be able to get hold of a working 51fd and was thinking if I could get away with using that as a doner and swapping the drive units over? Or do they share different components/wiring? If it is the same and just a matter or swapping and plug n play then I am tempted to do it. Can someone with technical experience of both players please confirm.
Thanks,
Evil

Hi evil stewie, check out my post here, http://www.avsforum.com/t/1054927/official-pioneer-elite-bdp-05fd-bdp-51fd-owners-thread-vs-1-32-dts-hd-ma/29910#post_21825257 the second part is most relevant there really is no way without the special CD. My 71 is still going fine, an oppo 93/103 will be cheaper than your original 71 but still pricey but I think worth it, it is as good in all respects, more flexible and much faster, I have oppo 93. The 103 I suspect will be a nice machine but be aware if you are into streaming etc that the 103 has Cinavia incorporated.
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