Official Pioneer Elite BDP-05FD & BDP-51FD Owners Thread / Vs 1.32 DTS-HD MA - Page 1011

Well, I do have very good hearing (musician) and my speakers are the Bowers & Wilkins 804S and HTM3S. I have an old Adcom 5 disc CD player with Digital Coax out, connected to an Outlaw Audio 990 processor, which doing the D/A work. If I went with the Oppo 95, then I would use it as my CD player, and use its internal DAC, instead of the one in my Outlaw 990.

Well I know little to nothing about the Outlaw 990 so I cannot comment on that. However nice speakers always liked B&W, looking at what you are currently using through a digital connection, the Pio 05, and the Oppo models IMO would definitely offer an improvement using either the analogue or HDMI output a lot will of course depend on what amplification you are using (I suspect pretty decent). Yes the 05 is a nice player for it's time and if it was not for it being so slow and a bit temperemental possibly a contender but at $50 little to lose and it still does give a lot of people, including me, a lot of enjoyment.

Your hearing being a musician will be good and probably pitch perfect. What I was more commenting on was sensitivity, where my hearing is discerning it is not very sensitive to very low level sounds which is where a friend of mine and others who can literally hear a pin drop have found the intermittent fan noise in the Oppo 95 to say the least irritating. This has been taken onboard by Oppo and the 95 replacement the 105 does not have a fan. This might be a way for you to go if you could stretch to it.

Having said all the above if you don't think the fan noise in the Oppo 95 would be a problem, and many don't find it a problem and you are OK with the cost, if it were me then that is the way I would go. You do seem to indicate that you might be using it for music only? If that is the case and you are not going to use it for movies, then it is rather overkill and there are probably better options for that out there, although there are the nice features of SACD and DVDA etc. which the Pio 05 and many other players will not do. The Pio 05 could be better because it is least costly option for music only although again is should be noted this is primarily a bluray player despite its very good analogue audio performance.

Which ever way you choose to go IMO you are going to find a definite improvement. Being nosy:eek: I would be interested to know which way you do eventually decide to go.
Edited by Rick R - 1/30/13 at 5:07am

Hi Cheryl

I am hoping your problem is now resolved. Although as you have already been advised it is not possible for the ordinary person to roll back the firmware, you can re-install the installed version and this has cured some problems.

I am a bit curious as to why you would want to roll back the firmware, I was under the impression that when you got your 51FD it was already on 1.73 and had been working fine. Just as well perhaps we can't roll it back, some people were having problems they attributed to, I think ver 1.71.

One of my 05s, acquired used about a year ago, was behaving EXACTLY as Cheryl's (charly921). I never was able to figure out what was wrong with it or how to fix it. I intended to try one of those lens cleaners but I never got around to buying one.

I'm pretty sure that it was running 1.71 when I got it. Upgrading to 1.72 made no difference. Very odd problem, as it plays some blu-rays (basic MGMs, like the Woody Allen films) and not others, just loading, loading, and loading, then "UNKNOWN DISC."

It's downstairs with the rest of my retired equipment.

I have not heard whether the following was successful for charly921 but it is possible the BDMV cache is full, this can cause problems because some BD's load quite a bit of material into this cache. The following simple procedure if you have not tried it is worth a shot if you have not done so.

With the player on but no disc in the drive press the 'tools' button (marked with a spanner located upper right from the enter button). Two legends will appear at the bottom of the screen 'Output Video Resolution' and below it 'BDMV Data Erase' select 'BDMV Data Erase' with the arrow buttons and press 'Enter'.a window will come up saying 'OK to Erase Data' select 'Yes' with the arrow buttons and the window will disappear.

There has been a rare instance where the BDMV cache memory has been defective. Somewhat more difficult but the cache is a 1Gb SD card located inside the player at the rear, but true to really good design it cannot be removed without taking off the rear panel. It is in a standard SD socket and another poster about a year ago had this problem and replaced it with a standard 2Gb card and resolved his problem. This I think is quite a rare problem and requires some technical expertise but worth a go if you are up for it. I would suggest that several attempts to clear the cache should be made before going down this path.

As yours is downstairs with the rest of your retired equipment you may not want to be bothered:) but it might help others

After combing through the thread last year, and maybe even asking for advice back then (I'd have to search my posts) I did clear the cache as described, to no effect. I did it a number of times, and it did not seem to make any difference. Your suggestion to replace the SD card is intriguing. I will check it out when I reduce some backlog here.

Hi Neal,

As you appear interested I did a bit of research and scratched the grey matter and found the relevant posts I'll put links below and the relevant page for most of this is 924. I need to correct my earlier post it's not a 1Gb SD card but 256Mb SD card here is an extract of one of the posts and links to the others apparently it is not too difficult the other posts are interesting because adrian very helpfully went on to explain and clarify a bit further

Originally Posted by adrian457 View Post

Probably and of course it's most likely not user repairable.

****Edit**** Actually I decided to open it up since I'm passed my warranty anyway and found the 256MB SD card. I pulled the card out and put it into a card reader. I then copied the folder that was in the card and then copied that folder onto a 2GB card. I know it's probably overkill but it's the smallest size SD card I had lying around.


http://www.avsforum.com/t/1054927/official-pioneer-elite-bdp-05fd-bdp-51fd-owners-thread-vs-1-32-dts-hd-ma/27690#post_19364479

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1054927/official-pioneer-elite-bdp-05fd-bdp-51fd-owners-thread-vs-1-32-dts-hd-ma/27690#post_19366031

Links to others that were experimenting with different sized cards to increase BDMV memory to see if it would increase performance

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1054927/official-pioneer-elite-bdp-05fd-bdp-51fd-owners-thread-vs-1-32-dts-hd-ma/19920#post_16572987

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1054927/official-pioneer-elite-bdp-05fd-bdp-51fd-owners-thread-vs-1-32-dts-hd-ma/19890#post_16570988
Edited by Rick R - 1/30/13 at 2:36pm

Rick and Neal,

I tried last night, several times, erasing the memory and the Pio still does not recognize the Disney BD's. I am not afraid to pop open the case, have done so on other equipment, the Vec Res. for example. How much memory can the Pio address, I mean is there a limit to the card size?

It has become a challenge now

Cheryl

I mentioned this in the BDP-09FD user thread, but my living room display is a Panasonic 36" Tube HDTV (from 2001) that only can only do HD-1080i over Component. Since it doesn't have HDMI, I'm looking for a Blu-Ray player to replace my current Pioneer Elite DV-37 DVD player that I've also had since 2001. The Pioneer BDP-51/05/09 and Oppo BDP-95/93 all support BD playback at 1080i over Component, so that's why I'm looking at these options. The Oppo-95 usually sells used for around $750, while the Pioneer BDP-05FD is about $200. The 05FD that's on eBay locally has a current bid of $100 on it. Even though the price is good, my concern is any issues that it may develop over time, or have problems with some discs, like other people have wrote about on here.

For Audio, I'm using a Adcom 5 disc CD changer (from '98), with an MIT digital coax cable to the Outlaw Audio 990 preamp/processor (using its DACs), and then with MIT Oracle XLR balanced cables to the Outlaw 7500 amp (200W x5), and the MIT Shotgun speaker cables to the B&W 804S/HTM3S. Initially I was thinking about the Pioneer BDP-09FD since it has the really good audio output stage, and use it for BD/DVD and CDs (to replace my Adcom CD player too). But with all the problems people talked about with the BDP-09 (and them selling used for $700-800), I decided to look for the BDP-05FD, or the Oppo BDP-95. From the specs and reviews, it looks like the Oppo BDP-95 would probably be the way to go, since it plays everything and has a good audio for CDs.

If/when my Panasonic Tube HDTV goes out, and I have to replace it (Plasma, LCD-LED, OLED), then I'd probably look at whatever the newest ones are from Oppo, or maybe someone more high-end like the McIntosh MVP891 (or current model).

Since I haven't seen an Oppo BDP-95 in person, I'm not sure how noticeable the fan noise would be for me. Right now my DVD player is on an open shelf on the right side of the TV, but I could put the BDP-95 on the left side (where the audio components are) since it's enclosed and behind glass (through the back is open).

UPDATE: I swapped out the SD card as outlined in the thread posts. I'm using an old Sandisk 2G Extreme, formatted FAT 32, copied the "buda" folder to it. Unit is running FW 1.72.

Loaded first disc fine. Then I put in one of the "problem" discs: Downton Abbey Season 2, UK region free. It did the old Close--Loading--grinding.... Finally, "Can't Play Disc," and then "Unknown Disc." Brought back fond memories.

But then I tried loading it again. It wasn't looking promising (taking too long) so I walked away. When I came back, it had loaded and it was at the menu. Well now I've been throwing discs at it, even returning to that same Downton Abbey disc occasionally, and I can't get it to fail.

So, my results? Inconclusive. I'll leave it in the system for the time being and see if it acts up again. I wanted to clear the cache, but I don't want to risk screwing up a good thing. At the very least I can say that the SD card switch did no harm. Only thing is: it was more than eight screws.

EDIT: I cleared the cache and the disc still loaded. Now it seems strange that it did not load the first time, but it's a little soon to be getting my hopes up. I'll report back.
Edited by nealgrof - 1/30/13 at 11:31pm

Neal

I think you have cracked it, the initial problematic load was perhaps the player sorting it self out. I would not say your results are inclusive as Adrian also had a positive result. But yes do report back later. I have to say I am really happy to have been of some assistance and I think your result will be very useful to charly921. I am going to respond to her now re card size.
Edited by Rick R - 1/31/13 at 8:04am

Hi Cheryl,

I really admire your spirit and as I said in my PM if you are up for it give it a go. Do note what Neal has said that it was rather more than 8 screws. I have not done this myself but have had the backs of other Pioneer kit (AVR) it may be that you can ease the back far enough off to get at the card without detaching everything. Maybe Neal can advise.

With regard to SD card size you may not be able to get hold of easily a 256Mb but I would keep it to 2Gb or below (some others have experimented with 4Gb SDHC cards I am not even sure if the player can read those so I would not go there) note what Neal did with regard to formatting and the copying of the folder accross. If the old card is defective copying the folder across may take some rubbish with it which is possibly why Neal got a refusal on his first try of the non playing disc, but then having written to the card it worked OK on the second try. No harm in clearing the cache I would suggest at that stage.

I wish you the best of luck and do let me know how you get on, it would make my day if you have success as well.

Yes I think you are probably going the right way with your set up as you note even Pio players in first owner hands are suffering problems rather perhaps higher than average particularly with laser failures and the latter are horrendously expensive to fix, in fact just not worth it, you can buy an Oppo 93 for about the same price as a repair. The Oppos seem ultra reliable and the support is second to none, I think if I were in your position if you are not into streaming bluray I would be considering the Oppo 105 an incredibly flexible machine but it does have Cinavia hence my reference to streaming.

Since I need Component video out, I can't go with the newer Opposed models, such as the 105. That's why I mentioned the 93/95 along with the Pioneer 51/05/09FD. I've seen a few Oppo 95s listed used for about 750, so with the better audio DACs on it, could also use it to replace my CD player. The Oppo 93 doesn't show up used as often, from current listings.

Sorry I missed that point that you need component video. True you won't find too many Oppo 93/95 for sale and most keep their price but there are a few around where some of the guys are upgrading!! to the 103/105 models. To all intents and purposes the 95 is reckoned to be pretty good by many particularly it's analog stage. I have only heard one briefly but my hearing is not good enough to critically differentiate between it and the 93 although I do marginally prefer the 93 to the 05 but then although I have a fairly decent system here it is not in the same league as yours. If you have sourced a 95 I would not hang around too long because they go pretty quick.

I *truly* appreciate your help, and taking the time to find those posts. I did go back to those pages to read the whole discussion from the beginning.


I would be glad to advise. I removed screws by "groups," stopping periodically to see what I could get away with. Turned out easiest to remove entire back panel, allowing easy access to the card, mounted at the very rear of the circuit board. The SD card "slot" works the same as in other devices, meaning that you gently push the card IN to the cartridge until it clicks; ease your finger back and the card springs forward (like a tongue sticking out). Then simply slide it out.

There are 4 different kinds of screws in all, some different sizes where you might not expect, so keep track of what comes out from where. Feel free to PM for more details.

And again, my thanks to Rick R!
Edited by nealgrof - 1/31/13 at 8:29am

EPIC FAIL! It appears that I haven't cracked anything. I'm sorry to report that the unit is up to its old tricks, without missing a beat. Player loaded Lawrence of Arabia, I hit play and it played the overture until 3:26. Froze. Non-responsive. Finally took the eject command. I tried to load it again and it wouldn't (UNKNOWNDISC). Cleared cache and tried again. No change. Then put in the Downton Abbey disc. It won't load now.

I was leery when that disc wouldn't load initially last night, that's why I curbed my enthusiasm. There's one more thing I could try when I have the time and the (mental) energy. I could remove the SD card from my working 05 and copy the "buda" folder from there in case the one in bad player is corrupted. But I'm starting to think that this is beyond our resources to repair.

My "good" unit is my original, and Pioneer replaced the drive last year. It wouldn't play CDs, the common problem with the drives in these units. But my "back-up" 05 has completely different symptoms. It couldn't be a failed drive, or a lens cleaning issue, could it? I figured that the intermittent nature of the problem, the selectivity with certain titles, etc., ruled out a problem with the optical drive.

BTW, my original 05 is also running 1.72 and plays Lawrence fine.

FAUguy,

Good luck on your search. Rick R has it pretty much right. Hint: look for his quite excellent post comparing indepth his experiences with the Oppo 93 and the BD-51. Interesting. Read at:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1054927/official-pioneer-elite-bdp-05fd-bdp-51fd-owners-thread-vs-1-32-dts-hd-ma/29640#post_21124215

As an unsolicited FYI, Crutchfield's is selling re-furb from OPPO, BD-95's for 799. If your are a little short on scratch (as I am), OPPO directly sells "re-furb" -93s for 419. I just got one, and after a thorough examination, my opinion is that it is new. Has the new OPPO warranty and everything else. You, being the more analog audio type with quite nice gear, might find that the OPPO-95s via Crutchfield's are at the same level. Again, good luck.

Mkard

Thanks for the info. I looked at the site for Oppo and Crutchfield, and only see new BP-95 listed at Crutchfield for $1009. They don't even show any listings for the BDP-93. If Oppo or Chrutchfield had refurbished 95s in stock for $799, then I'd probably get one of those. I guess they might have sold out, so none are listed? Which model was it that you just purchased as a re-furb?

Please can OPPO sales talk go to pm or Oppo thread?

Hi Neal

Mmmm not so good, I have had intermittent play problems in the past on some discs with freezing and unknown disc and this has usually been the disc itself being, not dirty as such, but having minor dust particles on them which have blown off with compressed air others have needed a bit more cleaning than that. These players are very sensitive to less than pristine bluray discs, as you probably know. One other time with these symptoms, it was cleared by using a Maxell laser lens cleaner for bluray with brushes, this was after the player was about 3 years old. These options are worth a try and I guess in your case copying that folder is worth a try, but a lot of effort. It is possible it is a dodgy drive but as far as I can see the symptoms seem to point away from that as some blurays play. Just a point here it has been noticed in the past with different manufacture dates and locations that some players have needed a firmware update to play certain discs and others have not, might be worth a shot to update this troublesome one to 1.73 ( I have been on that since it came out with no issues at all). With regard to lens cleaners dont bother with the Maxell wind funnel cleaner it really does nothing but one with brushes is worth a shot, Pioneer standard practice is to clean the laser lens of every unit that goes in for service before dispatching back to the customer (it is in the service manual). It is worth making sure the tray is clean and a blow out of the slot with tray out to make sure there is no dust in there, there has been one instance where a very fine hair was stuck to the edge of the lens causing intermittent play, but that needs a partial strip down of the drive not too drastic and I think I can find the details if you want them. I still think charly921 should have a go the source of her problem may be just the card.


PS I Know it is a long shot but any chance the SD card you used is dodgy, dirt contacts etc. Seems strange it initially worked OK and really well at that. I am really disappointed to read this last post. Is it possible (I don't know because I have not tried it) to run the player with the back off and try a different card, obviously this would need to be done with some care and if there are any minors in the family they should be well out of the way.

Apart from that I am beginning to run out of ideas, I still have difficulty believing your drive is faulty if it is playing more simple bluray material without so much or no 'BonusView' stuff to go into the cache
Edited by Rick R - 2/1/13 at 6:55am

You are right, I was just thinking myself last night that it was getting off topic. The original query was to do with a Pioneer 05FD versus the Oppo95 which is why I responded initially but it has developed too far and should now go to the Oppo thread or PM

FYI... Oppo and Crutchfield are out of stock of refurbs...

I doubt that very much now. The problem charly921 is having sounds exactly the same as what my unit is doing. The cause would seem to lie elswhere.


SD card is a good quality Sandisk Extreme from a couple years back. It serves regular duty in my cameras with no issues. Thanks again for the input.

Hi Neal,

Didn't reply sooner been busy with a few things over the last couple of days. I have to confess I have now run out of ideas, I don't know if dropping Pioneer an email might shed some light on it. It is a bit of a weird one to say the least, never seen it mentioned before and now two similar cases.

I tend to agree with you that charly921's problem does look very similar although hers at first impressions appeared related to the power outage she had.

Really sorry I can't help more.

 

While I don't have any hard evidence to offer, anecdotaly, it seems that lately a good number of Blu-ray discs are having problems on various players.

 

Ice Age: Continental Drift is hit or miss for playing on my BDP-05 and takes a longer time than most discs to load on my Oppo where it loads without fail.  Ice Age: Continental Drift has Cinevia encoding which has multiple branching in the authoring I believe.  I've read that it is a problem on many different players too.

 

The new Total Recall has audio drop out issues across a large number of blu-ray players causing Sony to offer a work around recommendation, LPCM vs bitstream.  It is an authoring problem and again, Total Recall has Cinevia encoding.  Sony has issued a recall on Total Recall and is offering an exchange program if you have already purchased it.

 

Brave and Finding Nemo have also reported audio drop outs on some players.  I don't know it this is coincidental but I think the BDP-05/51 are not alone in there ability to play some of the most recent titles.

I ended up not going with the Pioneer BDP-05FD, and it sold for $230 on eBay over the weekend. The 09FD went for over $700! Even though the person owned it for 4 years and says they having had any issue with it, I didn't want to risk any potential problems with it down the road. So I guess I'll just go the Oppo BDP-95 route, which would also provide me with better CD playback as well. Too bad no one has any factory refurbished units in stock.

I seem to be having an issue with my BDP-51FD. I picked up the player new for ~$250 in 2008. It has been my main Blu-ray player ever since. Anyway, it is having trouble reading some Blu-ray discs. After I put the disc in, it will say "Loading" for a few minutes and finally it will say "Unknown Disc". Is this an issue with the drive inside the player? Is the laser diode dying? Can this be easily replaced? Should I try to clean it first? Or, is it just time for a new player? Thanks in advance!
Edited by TimV - 2/6/13 at 10:56am

Have you kept up on the fw updates?

Before yesterday I was running 1.65. Also, up until then all of the problem discs had been rental Blu-rays from Netflix.

Yesterday I received the new Peter Pan disc and it wouldn't load. I updated to 1.73 and it still wouldn't load. I even cleared the cache in the tools menu. Still no luck.